I wandered into here through Ausgamers (after a friend said he's working for them) and as I have no job and a lot of time thought I'd join the forum, as it doesn't seem to be full of 12 year olds, for a nice change.

It seems most of the members here are from Queensland and often mention the mysterious 'QGL', which I looked up, found the website, looked at their forums and discovered that they are one and the same.

That's a bit weird isn't it?

And does my avatar not work because I joined through ausgamers?

QGL is a subforum of ausgamers, as far as I am aware

The first rule of QGL is that you do not talk about QGL.

You can browse the same forum through two different sites. Its like some kind of bizarro mirror world.

qgl.ausforums.com

edit: oh s*** broke first rule

as qgl, we've conquered the local forum world, so now we're taking it national, then the world

as it doesn't seem to be full of 12 year olds

Thats because they've all aged by an average of 7 years since joining :)

It seems most of the members here are from Queensland

QGL = Queensland Gamers League, who'd of thought....

And does my avatar not work because I joined through ausgamers

I see something that looks like a glowing cricket bat as your avatar. Is that what it is?

Both Ausgamers and QGL are run by Jewish members of the Illuminati - "Jewminati" - and some say Trog is directly descended from Mary Magdelene herself.

I see something that looks like a glowing cricket bat as your avatar.

As do I.

the qgl layout is so much better then ausgamers... ausgamers is way to bright

looks like clouds buster sword from ff7

yeah I use the qgl layout, looks weird when I see people take screenshots of the other site

what does everyone else use?

as it doesn't seem to be full of 12 year olds, for a nice change.

wait a few posts.

Original O-G here, I love my dark blue.

I see something that looks like a glowing cricket bat as your avatar.

As do I.

Ok, you can see it and I can't. I can live with that. I'll forgive that you don't recognise an FF7 buster sword when you see one, as there is a mostly PC gaming vibe around here, so I guess it's understandable.

I'm just wondering why two different sites have the same forum. Did QGL exist first and then Asugamers was made by oe of them, who decided to just link to the same forum? Or the other way around?

Original O-G here,

original original gangster? :P

Click here:
http://qgl.ausforums.com/index.php/439207/?agn=thread&id=2711073

That's how f***ing original I am!

I read from QGL. I didn't realise that the Ausgamers forum was just QGL until I saw some impostor named Midda commenting on an Ausgamer's news article, only to find that it was something I wrote a few minutes earlier.

haha what's the chances of the exact same thread eventuating again ET - it even has a link to ANOTHER same thread

This is what happens when the LHC was turned on. All forums start linking to QGL which perpetually links back to itself.

don't recognise an FF7 buster sword when you see one

We talk about cricket here more than FF.

as it doesn't seem to be full of 12 year olds, for a nice change

You haven't met existence yet, have you.

I believe the origins of AusGamers/QGL parallel universe is documented briefly in the book "A brief history of time" by Stephen Hawking.

Here's a pic of him from the old photo album at an AusGamers' meet in 1974. He's clearly displaying his original member lapel pin. Feel free to PM me if you want one. I know people that know people that can get stuff like AusGamers lapel pins.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3221/69079031rrnahrfszg5.jpg

I'll forgive that you don't recognise an FF7 buster sword when you see one

yay i was right.

old steve has a pained expression on his face, i believe that comes from trying to read the forum using the ausgamers layout

qgl is for pros

Ok, heres the real deal. There once was a big lan that used to be held in Brisbane, which was run by QGL. QGL had a subforum on ausforums.com, as it still does and most people still use, thats qgl.ausforums.com. There was also alot of other sub forums on ausforums.com, most of which have since been abandoned and deleted. sold.ausforums.com still exists, and so do a few personal ones. Im not sure if ausgamers had its own forum at one point, but a little while back, the ausgamers forum was linked to qgl. I guess they decided that they had this decently sized community on qgl and what better way to create an instant new forum community than to simply link a new forum to an existing one.

It seemed to happen without notice, maybe they did tell everyone but i dont remember it, but in any case alot of people didnt even realise the 2 were the same, but i think most people on qgl have realised it but if you come in fresh from ausgamers as you have you would be think, WTF is QGL ?

IT mostly comes around because the admins at qgl are the admins on ausforums.

I blame Trog.

old steve has a pained expression on his face, i believe that comes from trying to read the forum using the ausgamers layout

Nah, he just read a post by Obes.

There once was a big lan that used to be held in Brisbane, which was run by QGL. QGL had a subforum on ausforums.com, as it still does and most people still use, thats qgl.ausforums.com.

cept when qgl started (including the qgl forum) there was no ausgamers... the qgl admins along with admins of other states gaming leagues formed ausgamers... or something like that.

qgl started as qgl.org ... ausgamers.com & therefore ausgamers forums came along much later.

cept when qgl started (including the qgl forum) there was no ausgamers... the qgl admins along with admins of other states gaming leagues formed ausgamers... or something like that.

.

They then decided to start a free forum hosting service called Ausforums, and hosted their member LAN forums on the site also. (Thus qgl.ausforums.com). After the LAN scene died, most of the other LANs died as well. QGL stopped having LANs but the members of the forum continued to post.

Trog decided that he would rebrand the QGL forum as Ausgamers so that there was actually something going on. The members of QGL still like the blue theme, so they keep both.

what does everyone else use?

I still use the original blue forum. Viewing the white one on a 28" monitor melts my eyeballs.

I tried Ausgamers but it feels like when you put your shoes on the wrong feet by accident.

what does everyone else use?

I still use the original blue forum. Viewing the white one on a 28" monitor melts my eyeballs.

Pics or lying

Old bluey has served me well over the years.

I tried Ausgamers but it feels like when you put your shoes on the wrong feet by accident

yeah, that just about sums it up. I really like the old blue one.

If it aint broke, dont fix it.

Blue4lyfe

Unless you've got your head in a plastic bag. Then it's almost always blue4death.

Bah you're all wrong. QGL started as a spin off from the old Regen Lans and website evolved from the Soul Assassins Clan forum. Then Jim joined and its been downhill ever since.

Just wondering, Trog... Do you get stats on use of the Ausgamers version vs. QGL version?

I'd love to know what percentage of Ausgamers traffic is QGL members, compared to the total traffic.

Who actually owns QGL? Is it Trog?

QGL is a cybernetic organism, a learning computer.

More like a self-replicating virus.

And does my avatar not work because I joined through ausgamers?

This is just a bug that appears to be amazingly resilient against getting fixed. I'll chase it up again

And does my avatar not work because I joined through ausgamers?

This is just a bug that appears to be amazingly resilient against getting fixed. I'll chase it up again

I can't see a lot of other people either. In this thread, I can't see Pinky of Bats***s avatars, just a broken image. Oh well.

consider yourself lucky. Pinky's makes him look very very gay and Bats***'s is just a disturbing self portate I'm guessing.

my vote is with the LHC conspirators

hey darkside points i like your lightsaber in your avatar.

ff74lyfe

consider yourself lucky. Pinky's makes him look very very gay and Bats***'s is just a disturbing self portate I'm guessing.

*kisses* E.T.

I can't even see my own avatar, so half your luck. I joined AusGamers, not QGL.

btw, I'm straight as a f***ing arrow ftr

This is just a bug that appears to be amazingly resilient against getting fixed. I'll chase it up again

While you're at it, mind fixing mine? On QGL it's a cartoony character looking thing, on the ausgamers forum it's pretty much the GSI logo with different colours, no matter how many times I delete/upload a new one it only ever works on QGL, the Ausgamers one stays as that stupid old GSI thing.

everyone knows qgl was started to bring the sport of backpunches from the underground into the mainstream.

trog and jim own qgl, they use the money to fund stem cell research in order to reconstruct obes into a being of pure energy. Surplus funds are used to buy guitars, four wheel drives and voodoo dolls of Hunter.

Blue4lyfe
Unless you've got your head in a plastic bag. Then it's almost always blue4death.

Made me laugh out loud at work.

Crusher is the reason Westboro Baptist Church hates Australia.

There used to be a QGL mailing list but you only got to subscribe if you promised to accept tran.

As far as I'm aware this forum is the remains of that list. Kinda like the scungy stuff that gets caught in the plug hole when you drain bath water.

what about #ausgamers ?

I have only ever used qgl. The dark theme is nice - except when it is made gay pink or festive green and red

#ausgamers is a place where irc clients go to die.

I have only ever used qgl. The dark theme is nice - except when it is made gay pink or festive green and redI have only ever used qgl. The dark theme is nice - except when it is made gay pink or festive green and red

This is usually the result of Mulim hackers.

Once upon a time there was a large LAN in Brisbane called Armageddon. Everybody who had a computer was going to go to it. Just before the huge LAN one of Brisbane's Quake Clans organised a training LAN and invited everybody to come to it.

Everybody liked to gobble Jim's pineapples, so we got on pretty well and the Quake Clan kept running events and inviting everybody to come along. Eventually, the regular members of that LAN decided that they wanted to do a more formal league, the Queensland Quake League.

After about a year, a bunch of fags who failed at life came along and introduced us to their homogay ways, counter strike. The people who ran QQL realized that they could use their computers to not only flame people on the internet and play quake, but you could play other games as well. Thus, QGL was formed.

QGL lead the way in Australian LAN gaming and pretty much unified the Eastern Coast into a uniformed league, they called this uniformed league (or association really) Ausgamers. At this point state leagues like QGL were their own entity under Ausgamers.

At some point Dragons and Ninja's fought a mighty battle for domination and Rockape may, or may not, became our dirty uncle.

last edited by typo at 00:13:44 21/Feb/09

Finally, someone got it right and mentioned QQL - the true precursor to QGL. Thanks typo. :)

QGL has better colour scheme than Ausgamers. I recommend it.

Finally, someone got it right and mentioned QQL - the true precursor to QGL. Thanks typo. :)

No problem, it was an important step in the A3->Ausgamers history.

Rockape later died of a broken heart after Nicky Webster turned 18.

After about a year, a bunch of fags who failed at life came along and introduced us to their homogay ways, counter strike.

Historically accurate!

Rockape later died of a broken heart after Nicky Webster turned 18.

If only that were the true cause of Mr Freeman's untimely passing. :(

RIP Rockape, wherever you are..

This is just a bug that appears to be amazingly resilient against getting fixed. I'll chase it up again

While you're at it, mind fixing mine? On QGL it's a cartoony character looking thing, on the ausgamers forum it's pretty much the GSI logo with different colours, no matter how many times I delete/upload a new one it only ever works on QGL, the Ausgamers one stays as that stupid old GSI thing.

This is because when you update your avatar you have to use the Ausgamers profile page which uploads your new avatar to ausgamers.com (and I think used to not delete your old avatar from where they were previously stored at ausforums.com, but does now) but the ausgamers forums still only references people's avatars from ausforums.com. Funnily enough the QGL forum actually correctly references them from ausgamers.com.

So what you're seeing on the Ausgamers forum is your old, not deleted avatar that is still hosted on ausforums.com and on the QGL forum you're seeing the new avatar that you updated using the Ausgamers profile page and is hosted on ausgamers.com!

The End.

GO CLAN(US)

what about #ausgamers ?

#ausgamers was a channel I set up on oz.org originally, cos we used to have a #quake channel there but it wasn't very generic - if you weren't in the thick of the online quake community it could be... hostile for the newbies ;)

etg popped their heads up as a gaming-centric irc service and ran several high profile events with corresponding channels with bots that would give real-time scores and stuff on these events (such as cpl). we were involved with some of these and it seemed logical to make a dupe #ausgamers channel on there as well. eventually it became our irc home instead of oz.org. the channel name of ausgamers seemed a good choice for the organisation name too when we decided we needed one

I think a name with Jim in it would have sounded sexier.

AusJims? JimGamers? JimJims? JimsJism?

DickWart?

pfft hostile to newbies... you couldnt even ask a question about quake in #quake without some yankee zoid-kisser giving you the boot! ozzieoz dot org was gay, no not lame sorta gay... really homosexual. etg started off cool but soon became overly restrictive, fulla kiddybabble & severely lacking in lugnutz!

AMIRITE!?

RIP Rockape, wherever you are..

Every time I hear children scream I believe that they screamed because the spirit of Rockape is 'with' them.

This is because when you update your avatar you have to use the Ausgamers profile page which uploads your new avatar to ausgamers.com

There's only one profile page now so far as I can see. Click the profile link on top of this page, it takes you to the ausgamers.com profile page.

This is what I see on Ausgamers, on QGL it's what it's supposed to be, the avatar up near the account options.
http://mywebsite.bigpond.net.au/whoop/qgamers.jpg

hehe poor old lugnutz, lying dormant on the server hdd

pika-uu

This is because when you update your avatar you have to use the Ausgamers profile page which uploads your new avatar to ausgamers.com

There's only one profile page now so far as I can see. Click the profile link on top of this page, it takes you to the ausgamers.com profile page.

This is what I see on Ausgamers, on QGL it's what it's supposed to be, the avatar up near the account options.

Yep that's what I meant by having to use the Ausgamers one, but there used to be a QGL style (ausforums) one.

And yeah, the header of the Ausgamers site references your avatar correctly, just not the actual spot where it's meant to be displayed on the forum with your posts.

28.8k

30fps is all you need.

The QQL -> QGL history doesnt sound right. I'm not old skool enough to know about QQL, but the first QGL's were all Quake and Quake 2 and were basically a slightly more organised Regen LAN. I dont think Counter-strike even existed at the time.

The QQL -> QGL history doesnt sound right. I'm not old skool enough to know about QQL, but the first QGL's were all Quake and Quake 2 and were basically a slightly more organised Regen LAN. I dont think Counter-strike even existed at the time.

I think my rendition of history is pretty accurate.

#EDIT: Oh, and in those days there was only one game and that game was called Quake. Quake 2 was an abomination, but at least it didn't homo-rape babies like Counter Strike.

last edited by typo at 10:09:08 23/Feb/09

And yeah, the header of the Ausgamers site references your avatar correctly, just not the actual spot where it's meant to be displayed on the forum with your posts.

Yeah but interestingly if the forum thread is a news topic then the avatar displays correctly when you are looking at the news article (but not when you are looking at the forum).

you're old school enough nats, you just weren't paying attention. probably doing something useless like writing server query or game server booking pages for powerup instead of reading the mailing list and biting at my trolls like you should've been

Avatar problems when browsing forums on AusGamers should be fixed, just a missed URL change during the avatar location changeover!

Avatar problems when browsing forums on AusGamers should be fixed

sure they are, until you break them again. Arent you about due for another raid failure?

WHAT AVATARS?!

Yay they're finally fixed! Feels like I've been campaigning for this for like a year. :DD

Avatar problems when browsing forums on AusGamers should be fixed, just a missed URL change during the avatar location changeover!

My good sir, I do believe they are fixed.

It does my heart good to see mine own avatar that has been described as "very very gay".

you fags look at the forums through the ausgamers one?

total fags

Shut up QGL fag.

BRING IT!

you fags look at the forums through the ausgamers one?

total fags

Yeah yeah. It's amazing the proven correlation between looking at websites with different style-sheets and homosexuality. I believe it has a Pearson's correlation coefficient of 0.98. Couldn't find a reference, sorry.

nice work saint!@# now I don't need to even do anything

woohoo! Now I can finally ditch the old qgl forums for the new and improved ausgamers forum (viewed through a greasemonkey script that makes it look like qgl :p)

Why not just view it through QGL? What's better?

and yet, what of Tran ?

precisely

qgl is like a internets version of the Mason's

Why not just view it through QGL? What's better?

it's faster, better and real soon now (tm) will have search

v

qgl is like a internets version of the Mason's

Without the secret handshake or discounts at various businesses.

it's faster, better and real soon now (tm) will have search

QGL is pretty fast for me now. Better, better how? Search, Im pretty sure the search function works ok on qgl right now.

Just make ausgamers not look gay and ill use it. I dont like the subsections.

Without the secret handshake or discounts at various businesses.

also without the rubber gloves and bacon grease so it's not all bad

^ u r scaring me trog

I just started lurking here after the old SA quake2 ctf forums got shut down.

when are you adding skins to ausgamers?

so we can safely go to this promised land, but still look like we are here?

when are you adding skins to ausgamers?

so we can safely go to this promised land, but still look like we are here?

It's on the todo list and approaching

QGL is pretty fast for me now. Better, better how? Search, Im pretty sure the search function works ok on qgl right now.

Wow, you're the only person aside from me that has ever said that

Just make ausgamers not look gay and ill use it. I dont like the subsections.

I appreciate that it's strange and scary to change colour schemes; I struggled with it at first. Now I go back to QGL and I'm like, "wat the fuk" because the colour scheme appears weird. However, in order to cater to people that can't display adaptability, we're going to theme it in QGL colours and stylez so it looks basically the same (with the exception of the header probably). As I said above its on the TODO list and getting closer, but we're doing search and a few other things first.

However, in order to cater to people that can't display adaptability, we're going to theme it in QGL colours and stylez so it looks basically the same (with the exception of the header probably). As I said above its on the TODO list and getting closer, but we're doing search and a few other things first.

If you do this I may move.

You might also need to make it so when I type 'q' into my address bar, it comes up with 'http://www.ausgamers.com/forums/general/index.php' as the first choice.

You can do that, right?

So if u are gonna make Ausgamers look like qgl, and everyone starts using that, I assume you will phase out QGL at some point? I mean what would be the point of QGL, if lans dont exist anymore and you want to move everyone to ausgamers, then QGL wont realy have a point.

You might also need to make it so when I type 'q' into my address bar, it comes up with 'http://www.ausgamers.com/forums/general/index.php' as the first choice.

You can do that, right?

Yep... just download this replacement firefox.exe that I'll send you :)

So if u are gonna make Ausgamers look like qgl, and everyone starts using that, I assume you will phase out QGL at some point? I mean what would be the point of QGL, if lans dont exist anymore and you want to move everyone to ausgamers, then QGL wont realy have a point.

we haven't even considered the remotest possibility of removing the QGL site or forums or anything... if people want to keep using QGL then it means we still haven't made AusGamers good enough so we'll keep trying! the QGL site and forums will stay as long as people want to use them, basically

i am going to go balls deep and make ausgamers forum my new bookmark. and yes, i am a little nervous.

he QGL site and forums will stay as long as people want to use them, basically

well, maybe

get f***ed jim

i am going to go balls deep and make ausgamers forum my new bookmark. and yes, i am a little nervous.

that's how I started.. it was really weird at first but I got used to it right smart.. there's still a few things I'd prefer (some little style things, better/bolder links, bigger text in the reply box, etc), but I'm even used to it not being full-width now which I thought'd be the biggest thing to get used to.

ausgamers needs profile id so it's easier to tell sk noobs from fake/novelty id's.

yeah i tried ausgamers but those gay video ads keep coming up so i went back to qgl. so sweeeet...

last edited by infi at 09:58:03 25/Feb/09

Oh yeh, the ones that default to sound ON? WTF is with that?

but I'm even used to it not being full-width now which I thought'd be the biggest thing to get used to.

Why do so many sites have small fixed width designs? Even my computer illiterate grandparents have a 22" monitor now.

Why do so many sites have small fixed width designs? Even my computer illiterate grandparents have a 22" monitor now.

Because text is easier to read by (most) humans if the paragraphs are about the same width in terms of word count as a normal book.

Unfortunately when web pages scale up to larger resolutions the text doesn't scale up so you often end up with bloody huge single-line paragraphs, and the layout looks dodgy in general, so we end up with these teeny columnar pages in anything over 1280x1024.

Browser vendors are working on scaling solutions (hold CTRL and move the mouse wheel in IE7 for instance) but these are primitive still. As the range of resolutions continues to change the need to do something more robust and standards-based will increase.

ausgamers needs profile id so it's easier to tell sk noobs from fake/novelty id's.

Hmm, tempting, but at the same time, you should take people seriously based on the content of their post, as opposed to the age of their account.

yeah i tried ausgamers but those gay video ads keep coming up so i went back to qgl. so sweeeet...

I thought we had disabled the video player from the forums page, but apparently not, I'll get that changed.

i just tried ausgamers

MY EYES
ARRRGGH

I <3 ausgamers. Wouldn't mind seeing profiles too.

if people want to keep using QGL then it means we still haven't made AusGamers good enough so we'll keep trying! the QGL site and forums will stay as long as people want to use them, basically

I respect your efforts to improve AusGamers, so I'll weigh in with my feelings on what some of the core problems are. I know there's a bunch of personal history between you guys and me, so I'll try - as hard as I can ;p - to be professional* about it, and not draw in personal panty bunching.

Half of the problem, at least for me, is that QGL has some meaning and history, while the connection to Ausgamers isn't nearly as deep. Many of us were there, and helped, during QGL's foundation and expansion. As such, it became some sort of community based on locality and history.

AusGamers on the other hand was founded and expanded by a sub-section of the people who set up QGL (and some of the interstate groups)**. However, most of the community were still focused on the local/state groups, and not on the national level. Even the people that sat between the state groups and AusGamers were largely left out of the loop. The end result of this is that AusGamers was mostly glossed over by the gaming public. One example is shown here by people not understanding AusGamers and QGL.

Additionally, much of the effort of the people who founded and expanded AusGamers was focused on making it something that they could earn a living out of. Which, I feel, isolated many people from the processes that create a community. I think this is true of other people who helped out during Regen/QQL/QGL, at least in my informal conversations with many of them.

Lastly, and this is entirely my opinion the AusGamers, architecturally, sucks ass. It really appears that it's trying to be three things at once: A rip of common game portal, gaming news, and a community centre; all without understanding the use of those platforms***, or a real understanding of how to overlap them, and with little or no community engagement**** to understand what people want.

* My professional bankground is a BA in User Experience Design - I've run hundreds of Usability Tests, and been on about 2 dozen multi-million dollar projects doing user requirements and Information Architecture. I'm now a Researcher for the Interaction Design Work Practices Group at UTS.

** This isn't a bad thing from an organisational point of view. Who wants to make decisions with dozens upon dozens of people - many of who are crying f***wads.

*** I think some good examples of this is the fact that general news is almost 2/3rds of the way down my screen in 1650x1050 screen, you have two layers of horizontal navigation broken up by some weird arse self-advertising/navigation. Overall, it feels - again, at least to me - cluttered and overloaded.

**** Ausgamers and GA run by MM have a record of designing something without community feedback and then responding to criticisms by "you'll get over it". Which isn't entirely true, many people simply didn't get over it they went elsewhere - AusGamers not pulling people across is a good example.

Hmm, tempting, but at the same time, you should take people seriously based on the content of their post, as opposed to the age of their account.

How about an aura system that shows how the community respects them?

last edited by typo at 14:23:51 25/Feb/09

AusGamers on the other hand was founded and expanded by a sub-section of the people who set up QGL (and some of the interstate groups)**. However, most of the community were still focused on the local/state groups, and not on the national level. Even the people that sat between the state groups and AusGamers were largely left out of the loop. The end result of this is that AusGamers was mostly glossed over by the gaming public. One example is shown here by people not understanding AusGamers and QGL.

AusGamers was really set up initially for one reason - to create a national LAN-based competition. The website stuff was really more or less incidental to it, though it was a part, but the whole point of it was to back up the offline competition stuff. What AusGamers BECAME is certainly not what it was intended to be.

In fact, just for a laugh, here's the objectives of the original AusGamers Business Plan (which I wrote maybe back in 2000? can't remember and can't figure out how to drive Word to see if it will tell me):

1. Expand the existing QGL network and collaborate with the other Australian gaming networks, thus forming a unified Australian gaming front, incorporating all LAN and online communities across the country.
2. Use the new network to generate revenue, which will in turn be invested back into the gaming community.
3. Provide up-to-date, reliable, and accurate news, files, reviews, and information on everything to do with computers and gaming in general, with a focus on Australian news and gaming communities, including important international news.
4. Promote competitive computer gaming with the intent to make it a more widely accepted form of competitive entertainment. This will involve the formation of a national league structure, integrating competitions from LAN events around Australia.

The web stuff is definitely mentioned a lot there but it was always really just to back up the LAN stuff.

Anyway, back to your comment - AusGamers was pretty successful at doing what we wanted to do with the league play. We had great participation from all the other LAN groups, great feedback from the players, the season went well and we finished with a great finals event. What happened afterwords, which I think is what you're referring to, was that we basically were exhausted and couldn't manage to keep the momentum and thus never did another series. After that point we focused on the web stuff just as a hobby more than anything else, and AusGamers (in its intended form as a CPL-esque entity to try and promote serious competitive gaming on a LAN level) simply dropped off our radar (this was also a side effect of the core team getting actual real jobs and moving all our efforts to Telstra as well).

Additionally, much of the effort of the people who founded and expanded AusGamers was focused on making it something that they could earn a living out of. Which, I feel, isolated many people from the processes that create a community. I think this is true of other people who helped out during Regen/QQL/QGL, at least in my informal conversations with many of them.

Yeh, that's definitely not true (the first part, the second might be). Until the last maybe year or so, we have never viewed AusGamers internally here as something that we thought we could ever make a living out of it. There's just not that much ad revenue out there to be had; I know the jokes about phatloot come fast and thick, but it ain't like that. This, I feel, was obvious from the fact that every single person here (And when I say here, I guess I mean "at Mammoth") posted exclusively on QGL and basically never went to AusGamers or the forums at all.

I tend to feel AusGamers never had much of a community because there's just nothing common for people to congregate around and we made no efforts for there to be. Now we're making an effort, admittedly leveraging off the QGL community, but we're trying exceptionally hard not to compromise the QGL community in the process (and, imo, we're doing a decent job of it).

I think some good examples of this is the fact that general news is almost 2/3rds of the way down my screen in 1650x1050 screen, you have to layers of horizontal navigation broken up by some weird arse self-advertising/navigation.

This is 100% a function of the advertising requirements that we have. Your criticism is valid, but the example you gave is a usability issue (I totally agree with you btw, but its not something we can change without impacting advertising), and I think its not related at all to your comments above about AusGamers visually sucking ass. In fact you appear to be saying three things - it visually sucks ass, which I assume is a design criticism, its usability sucks, and we have no idea what we're doing with the direction of the whole site. All of which are in some ways fair criticisms, which I'll respond by saying that AusGamers, largely, doesn't make anywhere near enough money to have a team of full time people sitting down planning it. It's basically just a bunch of s*** we do in our spare time and, until VERY recently, noone has ever been paid directly for working on it. I just see it as a community service Mammoth provides so people can get fast downloads and stuff.

The first people to get paid for doing AusGamers-specific stuff actually started like 2 weeks ago (some of the freelancer articles that are coming through). We have a vague scaling-up plan for the next year (anyone interested in helping out should keep an eye out and/or send us resumes soon, btw).

Ausgamers and GA run by MM have a record of designing something without community feedback and then responding to criticisms by "you'll get over it". Which isn't entirely true, many people simply didn't get over it they went elsewhere - AusGamers not pulling people across is a good example.

MM never, ever did any of the GA designs. We just did the programming work; our defense of the designs was based on loyalty to the brand, not out of any sense of need to defend our design decisions.

Further, I defy you to point out any time in the last few months when the forum stuff was brought up where we've said anything like "you'll get over it" in response to feedback about the AusGamers forums. I find this a weird statement especially in light of the comment of mine that you quoted to start your post - we're only interested in improving the forums based on community feedback, because we want people to WANT to move over.

How about an aura system that shows how the community respects them?

This is a really interesting sentence in its own right and I would love to type even more than I have above about it because I find it way more interesting a topic than old history! I am all the way into systems like this (trust-based stuff) and I firmly believe it's the future of the Interwebs. This is definitely something that I'll be posting about later to gather feedback (once we get up to it - at the moment its a higher priority to have a QGL skin than new features :)

I definitely appreciate the feedback; contrary to what you might think none of us here have any weird personal grudges against you or anything; we all have pretty thick skin in here and it's generally pretty hard to annoy us, just as long as everyone realises if they write what we think are unfounded or unjustified complaints or comments we'll prolly jump all over them if we disagree :)

Good one Typo, Trog's in his office crying his eyes out

Hmm, tempting, but at the same time, you should take people seriously based on the content of their post, as opposed to the age of their account.

it's just an indicator... not like the l0re. like i will always judge the posts of people who i have met irl higher than those of people that i haven't. to me that just makes good sense... you get a much better judgement of character from meeting someone face to face than reading any amount of text.

in a similar vein.. people who i haven't met irl but are ol'school posters & have hung around so i got an idea of thier character rate higher than noobs. coz any google-intellectual can post seemingly solid content & yet really have no experience (& therefore validity) with what they are posting about.

not to mentions that it's an easy way to put s*** on noobs... & that's what i like about it... the easiness... just sitting here... rocking back & forth... putting s*** on noobs ;D

putting s*** on noobs breaks up the day.

it's just an indicator... not like the l0re. like i will always judge the posts of people who i have met irl higher than those of people that i haven't. to me that just makes good sense... you get a much better judgement of character from meeting someone face to face than reading any amount of text.

Yeh for sure, but you can sorta tell that from postcount ? Although I guess profile ID is prolly useful sometimes as well cuz there's some oldschools that just haven't posted much.

Well anyway, profile pages (WITH IDs!) is definitely on the TODO list anyway.. so hang tuff

hang tuff was relevant in 1993 trog, back with NKOTB.

I just see it as a community service Mammoth provides so people can get fast downloads and stuff.
...
There's just not that much ad revenue out there to be had; I know the jokes about phatloot come fast and thick, but it ain't like that.

Just out of interest, does the advertising revenue from Ausgamers even fully cover the hosting costs of the file library (and running costs of the site)?

I think that for downloading game patches and demos etc. Ausgamers is unparalleled in terms of earliest available and also fasted download speeds. This is an awesome service.

Agreed, which is why I was wondering whether it's sustainable... :)

Just out of interest, does the advertising revenue from Ausgamers even fully cover the hosting costs of the file library (and running costs of the site)?

fortunately that is totally sponsored.. but if it wasn't at Australian Internet prices I doubt it would (last time I looked we were holding steady around 30TB a month)

Good one Typo, Trog's in his office crying his eyes out

And there is a thud, thud, thud, coming from the office as he rocks back and forth banging his head on the desk - occasionally mixed in with inhumane screams of anguish that are more synonymous with ghouls from a horror movie than a website developer.

As far as AusGamers/QGL goes - it's clear to me as an AusGamers noob that there's two different crowds here. The crowd that myself and my mates are in, who have discovered AG recently and use it to get our game updates and s***, and have also joined the forum if we wanted to. And the old-school QGL crowd.

I reckon you've nailed the transition by sharing the forum DB, and slowly improve the AG-side.

As for typo's comments that AusGamers sucks arse at what it tries to be, I disagree. Yes, it does three things, and it does them better than most sites:

1. Articles integrated into forum. Most sites only have 'comments' whereas they have obviously put some effort into integrating news articles as complete forum threads with all the benefits.
2. Reviews and gaming news complete and integrated - reviews with videos, or links to videos that are on the AusGamers site, with links to any related downloads. I fail to see how their is any usability issue there. Most pro sites haven't come that far.
3. Solid community. Try and start a forum today and get a solid community - that's my challenge. It's very very difficult nowadays because there are lots of players in the market. AusGamers will go from strength to strength. Tell me when you IPO, I'll buy shares.

fortunately that is totally sponsored.. but if it wasn't at Australian Internet prices I doubt it would (last time I looked we were holding steady around 30TB a month)

Back when we talked in 2004 with you and term, we did the numbers and even for us at the time it was going to cost a motza to host you lot.

As for typo's comments that AusGamers sucks arse at what it tries to be, I disagree. Yes, it does three things, and it does them better than most sites:

I still think there's definitely ways we can improve focus; we are a litttttle bit all over the place. But that (to me) is just an artifact of us not really ever spending real time on AG until recently, and we're working to get that focus now. I think in the last few months we've made a lot of great changes and have a bunch of other cool stuff coming too.

Although I guess profile ID is prolly useful sometimes as well cuz there's some oldschools that just haven't posted much.

Well anyway, profile pages (WITH IDs!) is definitely on the TODO list anyway.. so hang tuff

They see me lurkin, they be hating.

'Latest Screenshots' would be nice and a Search function for the games listings would be handy. And for saint, a button that gives him a highfive when someone clicks on it :P

I still think there's definitely ways we can improve focus; we are a litttttle bit all over the place. But that (to me) is just an artifact of us not really ever spending real time on AG until recently

There's always something to do, of course. But typo's getting a bit carried away - probably an artifact of his multi-million dollar projects.

I don't see the need to go crazy criticising something that is fundamentally good and fills the gap in a fairly barren landscape.

The aura system is a good idea but also tricky. I think it needs to be like golf handicapping - your 'respect' level should be able to go up faster than go down. Otherwise you make one fpot-style thread and your respect level is suddenly only slightly higher than a fist-sized rock.