CVG are reporting that the Pyro is the next Team Fortress 2 class to receive the achievement treatment. What this means, for the uninitiated, is that TF2 players using the pyro class can work away on specific goals to unlock a new pyro-exclusive perk.

What do you guys think? Is it a good idea for Valve to be unlocking one class' achivements at a time? Were you annoyed when there was servers full of medics last time? Guesses on what the pyro's unlocks might be?

One at a time is good as it ensures the game stays well balanced.

The servers full of medics rocked because I was dropping critbombz all over the joint because I was the only soldier/heavy in the server!

Pyro is a fun class they will probably throw a rocket propelled flame gun or something similar in there. Lots of people have been talking about an ability to drop an oil patch and light it up. Or kamikaze explosion.

pyro needs a flaming chainsaw imo. i reckon it would be cool if a pyro was able to ignite objects or the ground to use as obstacles for enemies to get past.

last edited by ravn0s at 14:36:50 03/Jun/08

I think you mean uninitiated...

zzz pyro they are not that great im more looking forward too. soldier or engy

i love going pyro at the start of each round on gold rush. much fun.

pryo is my second fav class after spy.. he's just nuts and creates mayhem.

hope he gets some molotovs!!@!#

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7426/pyrovssoldierlu8.png
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7426/pyrovssoldierlu8.4a571d2c57.jpg

last edited by Phooks at 19:30:39 03/Jun/08

that or his fire thingo could make more damage, 100% crit would be nice ;D

Being a pyro as my 1st choice class.

f*** yeah.

Elsewise, i don't like them doing this one at a time, it doesn't make sure it's balanced, atm medics are way OP.

as for what gun should the pyro get, i'm more of a fan of xtra long range flame thrower, or a molotov, not a huge fan of the oil on ground thing, but i think it's most likely.

The ability to burn away stickies would be great. Nothing quite as lame as a demoman sitting there far away in a safe location waiting for someone to walk across his undestroyable patch of stickies (one of which is usually critical). Shooting the stickies away takes too much time and ammo usually, especially when the sticky physics is just retarded (ie, shooting a rocket at them doesn't always have the desired effect).

Also, the only way they can f*** this up is to release spy achievements at the same time :)

last edited by parabol at 19:06:11 03/Jun/08

Also, the only way they can f*** this up is to release spy achievements at the same time :)

That would be awesome! DO IT

when they do spies they need to give them feign death

they need to fkn release them all at once, seeing medics ubering medics while bone sawing got a bit boring and laughable.

+ it's a heavies dream

What do you guys think? Is it a good idea for Valve to be unlocking one class' achivements at a time? Were you annoyed when there was servers full of medics last time? Guesses on what the pyro's unlocks might be?

I don't think it really matters. I just wish they wouldn't make weapons need you to unlock them. w00t for achievement servers.

Is it a good idea for Valve to be unlocking one class' achivements at a time? Were you annoyed when there was servers full of medics last time?

One of the TF2 devs. posted on SA, in vague fashion, about a couple of those points:

We are still doing one class a time for the time being. We learned A LOT from the previous release and we've definitely improved how we design and implement achievements. Same thing applies to the new unlockable weapons we're working on.

I honestly believe our next release will be 100% better than the Medic one. Every time we ship something new we learn a ton from it. Listening to our community helps us build better updates. We're looking at our stats and seeing which achievements worked and which people decided to ignore.

On the pyro unlock side of things, the only decent idea I have seen is a shotgun change where instead of buckshot, it fires a slug which causes the aterburn on ignited enemies to kind of explode/combust doing instant dmg. It is a good idea because it builds on the weakness of the pyro at range, without giving it a long range weapon. (The slug would do nominal dmg unless the target is on fire) It would also be balanced by only firing once per reload, renders the shotgun useless in general (removes medium range ability from the already limited pyro) and having to change weapons to do it, you cant just fly into a group flame and start shooting them without a lot of delays. It also adds a unique gameplay element, kind of a combo attack - which is kind of like the synergy between the ubersaw and kritz.

last edited by qmass at 19:36:42 03/Jun/08

Old Skool tf on the Quake engine had pyros that shot rockets that explode into flame, good times.

...I can imagine being an engie...hiding behind my sg and BAM I'm on fire...sounds awesome!

Hahah, that's great Phooks... soo true.

Pyro is s***, I've never seen a good pyro EVER! I'm looking foward to Valve upping the class so it's even in the slighest playable.

molotov would b awesome imo. is there any word anywhere on what his new upgrades might b?

when they do spies they need to give them feign death

Meaning no offense, but that's the worst idea i've heard all year. :p

last edited by Phooks at 21:55:55 03/Jun/08

Meaning no offense, but that's the worst idea i've heard all year. :p

Feign death was in TFC

Pyro is s***, I've never seen a good pyro EVER! I'm looking foward to Valve upping the class so it's even in the slighest playable.

I think pyros are great when trying to halt a group of enemies. Pyro goes in flames up which distracts them enough for the rest of the team to take 'em down.

last edited by ctd at 22:06:36 03/Jun/08

Pyro is s***, I've never seen a good pyro EVER! I'm looking foward to Valve upping the class so it's even in the slighest playable.

The reason you suck at pyro is because you want to live where as pyros want to DIE. :P

Honestly, as if everyone constantly spychecking wasn't bad enough.

What can you do against someone constantly spychecking you? Nothing.

What can you do against someone constantly feignchecking you? Nothing. Who would NOT shoot at the body of a dead spy? A five year old could counter feign death

Perhaps if you were able to be shot by someone on your team and feign death as the enemy character, enemies might walk over you and then you could get up, but IMO there are more worthwhile unlocks to get.

Like longer invis... and GIANT LASER BEAM EYES.

Meaning no offense, but that's the worst idea i've heard all year. :p

guess you are too young to have played tfc


also bring back concussion grenades!!!


last edited by ravn0s at 22:30:30 03/Jun/08

On the pyro unlock side of things, the only decent idea I have seen is a shotgun change where instead of buckshot, it fires a slug which causes the aterburn on ignited enemies to kind of explode/combust doing instant dmg. It is a good idea because it builds on the weakness of the pyro at range, without giving it a long range weapon. (The slug would do nominal dmg unless the target is on fire) It would also be balanced by only firing once per reload, renders the shotgun useless in general (removes medium range ability from the already limited pyro) and having to change weapons to do it, you cant just fly into a group flame and start shooting them without a lot of delays. It also adds a unique gameplay element, kind of a combo attack - which is kind of like the synergy between the ubersaw and kritz.

that sounds like a horrible idea.

Pyro is s***, I've never seen a good pyro EVER! I'm looking foward to Valve upping the class so it's even in the slighest playable.

I think pyros are great when trying to halt a group of enemies. Pyro goes in flames up which distracts them enough for the rest of the team to take 'em down.

And

The reason you suck at pyro is because you want to live where as pyros want to DIE. :P

Pyros are played wrong by alot of people, they're more a disruptive class than a Kill Count class. Your job is to go in, scare off the medics, and cause general confusion, making everyone run to a med pack, or away from a choke point they're guarding, which makes it easy for your teams soldiers/demo men to run in and target everyone.

I mean, sure, you should also be able to a fair few other classes, and you should get quite a few points, no reason demos with a good team can't rack up heaps of kills. But your main job is to keep your teams offense moving forward. And that usually means you're going to die a bunch of times, i die more as pyro than any other class, but thats just the way it is. Alot of people on pub servers playing pyro suck the wang at it.

spies get feign death?

Yeah pyro's die a lot because people try to get kills with them. Just burn stuff then move away. Job done. If you light up a soldier...unless you're right on him you should back away because unless they're crap he's taking you down with him :p

Alright, regarding the comments about scaring medics and lighting up a few people and running away:

Firstly, the medic is a little harder to kill with flames due to the health regen. Plus due to their extra speed they can keep running around you. Secondly, they can prevent a pyro disruption by extinguishing the teammates pretty quickly. I've found a single medic can usually prevent 5 other teammates from dying, and they're on full health and continue their assault before I've even respawned!

So yeah, I generally use the pyro as an anti-spy tool or if the other team has a crap or no medic. Oh and also in very tight maps where you can actually use the point blank flame damage (not very often though).

in 8v8 games pyro is useless. some teams try to use an ubered pyro to make the other team pop their ubers at the start of maps like dustbowl, but it doesn't really work against any decent teams.

6v6 games they fare a little better, though there isn't really all that much that a pyro can do that other classes can't do at least as well or better.

they're good fun in pub though and the game wouldn't be as good without them.

Ubered Pyro's make short work of enemy defenses, as long as the medic rushes in first to take the knock back of sentry guns.

Many-a-rush has be stopped or slowed down by the sudden onslaught of a pyro or two.

2-3 pyros are excellent for defending a cap point.

Pyro's are made for hit and runs or kamikaze missions.

Firstly, the medic is a little harder to kill with flames due to the health regen. Plus due to their extra speed they can keep running around you. Secondly, they can prevent a pyro disruption by extinguishing the teammates pretty quickly. I've found a single medic can usually prevent 5 other teammates from dying, and they're on full health and continue their assault before I've even respawned!

So yeah, I generally use the pyro as an anti-spy tool or if the other team has a crap or no medic. Oh and also in very tight maps where you can actually use the point blank flame damage (not very often though).

Pyros do burn through health fairly quickly making the minor health regen counts for s*** 99% of the time, so most medics (not having alot of health to begin with) scatter when a pyro starts flaming them, especially if the person they're healing doesn't react imediately. In team games with a team mate you trust, yeah, then pyros are in the s***.

They're not useless in clan matches, just, situational. Have to be able to switch to them, and then back out, when needed. I would never recomend playing one for an entire clan game. But thats mainly because in clan games, from what i've played, most "action" takes place when you manage to kill a majority of the other team. And pyros aren't built for longevity.

But on the whole, i agree that the pyro class could actually use a really good review, not just new achievements. Oh and for the love of god, on pub servers, if there are already 2 pyros, don't be the third.

They're not useless in clan matches, just, situational.

personally, i've never seen any decent team put them to good use. there isn't really anything they can do that other classes can't do at least as well as, or usually better than a pyro.

On a side note, has anyone noticed a decent place to download demos of clan games from.

I've gone looking before but found none.

Pyros do burn through health fairly quickly making the minor health regen counts for s*** 99% of the time, so most medics (not having alot of health to begin with) scatter when a pyro starts flaming them, especially if the person they're healing doesn't react imediately

Basically my comments are from my own experience. Set a whole lot of people on fire and you'll notice the heavy and medic often have the highest survival rate. The medic has the health regen to offset much of the residual flame damage, the heavy has a s***load of HP to begin with.

But of course if you're flaming at point blank, the medic will certainly die before you do - if he's not paying attention, no question about that.

(Edit: reworded for clarity)

last edited by parabol at 11:42:09 04/Jun/08

Use the pyro to kamikaze the almost uber ready medic .

that sounds like a horrible idea.

Why...?

Why...?

The shotgun does 2 things, medium range defense and a finisher.

You take away one, to get..... the same?

Which requires more accuracy (lololol skillz yeah yeah). And takes it to a 1v1 class entirely. Which has a delay on it due to weapon switching, and is proposed to only contain one round so long reload delay on the next shot instead of 6 quick to hand shots?

Thats why it sounds like a bad idea, 1v1 the pyro already has a finisher, if you get someone to around half health and you're still close, a full blast from the shotty and they're down. It's not going to help the class any in the situations that make it a very limited clan class either.

The flame rocket, liquid on ground, or molotov all sound superior.

On a side note, has anyone noticed a decent place to download demos of clan games from.

GotFrag is usually the place for competitive demo's. Not sure about TF2.

edit: http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/demos/ there you go. May have to set an account up.
Make sure you get the POV:HLTV demos or else you'll be stuck watching one person.

last edited by ctd at 13:12:35 04/Jun/08

How about this as an unlockable suggestion...

If the enemy dies while on fire (Charcoal ala Flamethrower), then they explode causing splash damage to friendlies nearby....

BOOM BABY!!

Which requires more accuracy (lololol skillz yeah yeah). And takes it to a 1v1 class entirely. Which has a delay on it due to weapon switching, and is proposed to only contain one round so long reload delay on the next shot instead of 6 quick to hand shots?

So what you are saying is, if it caused team mates standing near the ignited player to also ignite, then it would be cool? :P

Unfortunately allowing a teammate to spread fire would promote TK-ing or team-griefing, which Valve have done mostly a good job of reducing. Apart from the rare sentry team-mate kill that you come across (I still don't know that works) or placing structures to block teammates (e.g. on stairs), etc.

Yeah, sorta agree with para on that one.

I get the sentiment of the idea, i just don't think gimping the second gun is the solution.

No, you missed the point.... besides, structures don't block teammates, it only blocks the person (engie) that made the structure.

I agree about TK-ing though... :P

no, structures definately block team mates.

edit: ah must only be on inclines then, my mistake.

last edited by taggs at 17:04:28 04/Jun/08

I thought everyone clipped through buildings bar the engie who deployed them and spies.

Apart from the rare sentry team-mate kill that you come across (I still don't know that works) or placing structures to block teammates (e.g. on stairs), etc.

I have def. been killed by a sentry on my own team - I just assumed it was because I walked between its line of fire and an enemy. In a game with no FF I thought that was pretty cool actually

I thought everyone clipped through buildings bar the engie who deployed them and spies.

Im pretty certain that is the case.

I have def. been killed by a sentry on my own team - I just assumed it was because I walked between its line of fire and an enemy. In a game with no FF I thought that was pretty cool actually

The best thing about this is how it gives spies another way to dismantle some engee bases and adding a tiny bit of humiliation on top.

besides, structures don't block teammates, it only blocks the person (engie) that made the structure.

Buildings on inclines (ie: stairs, as I mentioned) can partially block teammates. Join 2fort servers where the engi has teleporters on the stairs .. you have to jump to get over them. People whinge about it all the time, despite the fact that it's easy to get over if you're in no rush, but actually helps slow down the average spy enough for their cloak to wear off. Even for the experienced spy, it still slows them down having to jump like that.

I thought everyone clipped through buildings bar the engie who deployed them and spies.

As far as I know all enemies are blocked by structures .. not just the enemy spies.

I have def. been killed by a sentry on my own team - I just assumed it was because I walked between its line of fire and an enemy. In a game with no FF I thought that was pretty cool actually

I've only seen it happen once, others straight away said the same thing "wow, never seen that before". Must be a pretty rare occurrence I guess, since you usually have teammates all over the place during a sentry + ubered attacker situation .. and it doesn't always happen. Maybe it's just rocket wall-splash damage that does it?

last edited by parabol at 16:22:26 04/Jun/08

Haha yeah, when spy I have intentionally uncloaked near an enemy sentry which has killed the engie who was healing it, hilarious.

Haha yeah, when spy I have intentionally uncloaked near an enemy sentry which has killed the engie who was healing it, hilarious.

The key to exploiting it is to line it up like this:

you |dispenser| (engee) [sentry]

So when you uncloak, the dispenser blocks the sentry from killing you once the engee dies. Then you can re-disguise and take out the sentry etc

Meh, I prefer the engi backstab + quick-sap combo (in that order).
Bit more challenging but worth the response you get when the engi respawns :)

Someone has already made a good vid:




last edited by parabol at 17:13:01 04/Jun/08

man ... that spy's on crack

Meh, I prefer the engi backstab + quick-sap combo (in that order).

Yeah but its funnier when their own sentry kills them :P

"One item, shown here in concept form, will be the Axtinguisher. Although it does about half of normal damage to standard run-of-the-mill non-burning enemies, once you light someone on fire the Axtinguisher will guarantee a critical hit."

"Along with all of the new content, we're also going to be making some significant changes to the Pyro class for everyone, regardless of whether they have unlocked any new items."

Pyro is the least objective-effective class in the game. All he can do is light enemies on fire (rarely killing them), and take down badly placed lvl 1 or 2 sentries. Seems like valve finally picked up on it.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/866/axtinguisherdw3.jpg

sounds lame imo. changes to the pyro is really good news.

last edited by ravn0s at 11:48:57 07/Jun/08

Pyro is the least objective-effective class in the game. All he can do is light enemies on fire (rarely killing them), and take down badly placed lvl 1 or 2 sentries. Seems like valve finally picked up on it.

actually, depending on the placement, pyros also take down a lvl 3 sentry... and roast the engi trying to repair it.

last edited by Fish at 11:49:54 07/Jun/08

^ actually, depending on the placement, pyros also take down a lvl 3 sentry... and roast the engi trying to repair it.

yep ive done that a few times. pyro's can be really good on goldrush. lasnight i killed 5 enemies that were encircled around the cart.

also we need female classes :P

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8476/selectaclassbyghostfirecy6.jpg
last edited by ravn0s at 11:54:24 07/Jun/08

So does it *have* to be your flame? (ie, dual pyros, one with flame and the other just using the axe). Sounds a bit lame regardless.

I'd prefer it if the amount of flame damage you do per person increases the more people you simultaneously set on fire. That was you would get immediately rewarded for causing massive disruption (since you're often dead before your regular crit probability gets a boost from all the hp damage you've dealt).

f***ing cool pic :)

saw this on some random site, they rekon in the new update...

Spies' Sappers will now have an ammo count, so they can't run around spamming. Scouts will receive a small nerf with their scattergun. Demoman will have their ammo counts adjusted

sounds pretty f***in gay if spies get ammo counts. will make it so much harder

that sucks for spies and scouts :(

Spies' Sappers will now have an ammo count

Sweet if that's true.

I always feel sorry for the engineers when I'm running along a line of buildings, continuously insta-sapping faster than they can repair.

Spies' Sappers will now have an ammo count

just replenish from the enemy's dispenser before sapping it again?

Spies' Sappers will now have an ammo count

just replenish from the enemy's dispenser before sapping it again?

hi guys im noob

hi guys im noob

No, you are the 'noob'. Sentries are always built next to dispensers, just dont sap the dispenser before you get the turret down and you can refill while you run circles around it... (but the main point is that you shouldnt be trying to brute force sentries, you should be stab-sapping.

But the stab-sapping is only good during 1v1 encounters - for example, second stage of dustbowl (hell, any stage of dustbowl) the engis just build in a large area. If you stab one engi, two other sentries will shoot you. Even if you manage to get a sapper onto the target sentry, the other engis will knock it off. That is when sapper runs are useful - sap everything to create confusion, and the engis start looking out for number one and can't co-ordinate.

But the stab-sapping is only good during 1v1 encounters

Duh?

Even if you manage to get a sapper onto the target sentry, the other engis will knock it off.

So that means you need more spies, not a more powerful spy.

If you stab one engi, two other sentries will shoot you

How often do you have 3 sentries right next to each other? Sometimes, but not that often. No point keeping the spy overpowered for the other 95% of the time when there's only a sentry or two around.

The idea is that if there are too many engies/sentries around, the lone spy should give up trying to destroy the whole base himself. Get a couple of spies to do some sapping at the exact moment your teammates attack the base, so that THEY can can get close and destroy the sentries for you with rockets/grenades.

I play the spy heaps and I fully support degrading their sap abilities.

How often do you have 3 sentries right next to each other?

all the time on dustbowl.

isntead of using a spy to try and take out 3 sentries, just change to demo and sticky them.

Yer it is kind of silly that spies can run around doing laps of the defense just sapping over and over. Funny though, when half the team are shooting at each other trying to kill a random spy.

all the time on dustbowl.

Yep so on one or two stages of dustbowl, you see it often. Not to much on the other 90-95% of stages/maps in TF2 .. which is my point. Hence for these situations you change strategies: more spies or better timed sappings.

Yep so on one or two stages of dustbowl, you see it often. Not to much on the other 90-95% of stages/maps in TF2 .. which is my point.

it depends on what server type you play on :P

i was looking forward to basically anything but pyro. but more soldier/engy

yeah i by far play as engy the most so would like to see something new for the engy

yeah i by far play as engy the most so would like to see something new for the engy

New buildings :O:D:D:D:D

Na, they wouldn't do that, f*** that would be REALLY cool.

$100 hitting teammates with new wrench will give them ammo.

Me? I can't wait for demo, it's just absolute rape atm... either demo is overpowered or really good players are naturally drawn to it.

I doubt they'd do the hitting teammates to give ammo, for starters how would the engy know how much ammo each person had? and that's what dispensers are for.

but yeah as much as I doubt they'd have new buildings, I'd love to see little deployable shields or barriers, ramps\ladders that give access to areas otherwise only accessible via rocket/gren jumps. s*** even a deployable item much like the dispenser, only when you stand next to it you get 100% crits (like the kritskrieg).

But I doubt any of that would happen, besides I think they're doing the upgrades for the least played classes, so I reckon sniper or spy might be next?

i dont think they'll add any more deployable defensive stuff. they dont wanna make pinch points any harder to break.

maybe being able to drop ammo?

as for sniper, i'd like to see some camouflage ability. if they stay in the same spot for an amount of time

Screw the pyro, bring on the demoman achievements!

After watching the Drunken Flying Demoman video, I've had a new-found appreciation for that class. Takes a bit of practice to jump well, but the snipers never see it coming when I gren-jump across 2fort :)

I recorded this a couple days ago:

lol i'll be waiting for you with my melee on the other side. that's way easy to counter. and you only need one sticky to jump across the bridge to their battlements.. don't need the extra damage

I reckon, also I can do MASSIVE single sticky jumps using only 20hp.

It's all about the angle and jump + crouching, plus of course timing.

You should be able to sticky jump ANYWHERE on any map an still have ~150hp.

i wish i was as 1337 as u chub

lol i'll be waiting for you with my melee on the other side. that's way easy to counter.

Useless comment. Only true if you're specifically looking out for me or unzoomed.

Except .. 95% of snipers are zoomed most of the time, charging up their shot. So most don't see it coming.

you only need one sticky to jump across the bridge to their battlements.. don't need the extra damage

The key point is that it's not easy to do every time without fail unless you've had heaps of practice.

I haven't, so 2 stickies do the job.

Plus, the two sticky method allows me to jump and curve around my battlement's wall without showing myself (ie, can't get sniped while attempting to jump). The extra damage also gives s***loads of air and I usually land on the sniper's head and I rarely get seen :)

last edited by parabol at 18:14:43 17/Jun/08

Except .. 95% of snipers are zoomed most of the time, charging up their shot.

lol, I think you need to learn to snipe.

lol, I think you need to learn to snipe.

You mean they have to learn to snipe?

Personally I don't bother to charge shots unless I'm trying to take out a heavy or a sentry. Just not worth being unaware of the surroundings for so long (nearby spies, another sniper out of scope's FOV, flying demoman :P)

Anyway my sniping skills are doing just well thank you :)

http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~boldajis/images/tf2_sn.png

last edited by parabol at 23:39:21 17/Jun/08