I am sick of you always saying how unskillful cs is

well here is a fact for you:

the first bullet of every gun is pin point accurate ON THE CROSS HAIR.

NOW! given thsi fact, if all you q3 people are so amazingly accurate with your l33t railing skillz then why can't you totally own a cs server with those same skills, pick up and ak47 and 2-3 well aimed bursts will down any player. ok now where is the lack of skill in that???? HUH??? FIRST BULLET HITS TARGET!!, and the next 2 bullets are close to teh crosshair, given that an enemy is larger than the crosshair, exept for qute long range you can easily land 3 bullets with an ak right on your enemy, and that will kill them, oh... only if you can aim that is.

so tell me exactly, where is the lack of skill in that???? cause i sure as hell don't see a problem, the only problem i can see is if you q3 players can only hit targets with guns that fire continuoously and stay accurate so you can start shooting and DRAG the tracer fire over your target, well sorry, guess you'll have to learn to be a little more accurate wont you.

umm

is this supposed to be in another thread?

like i saidd Q3 is for f*****s and chicks ......thats all Q3 is good 4..........ghey game

no one said cs is unskillful

all they said was that its gay

no your wrong creeping death, quake players are always saying its unskillful

here is a quote from death crush "Is counterstrike that game where you walk at a snails pace and the bullets land in random places thereby removing the concept of skill?"

and that's a typical comment from a quake player, i here the same thing all the time

it seems to be a common misperception on teh part of quakers that all the bullets just leave your gun barrel in some totally random patern. this is complete nonsense, the gun starts off totally accurate and controlled but the longer you hold down fire the more wildthe recoil gets, its just amatter of not being a trigger happy spammer and you can be totally accurate.

dood, its like 1:00am in tha morning... you take this wayyyyy too seriously

they are both just games, so chill...

Axis: in response to you lovely question:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH, you keep shootin for that rainbow, tiger.

Axis, if you have so much skill from playing CS, how come you cant come into a q3 game and own at that? Its the same as what you are asking isnt it?

Axis,

If I had a dollar for every time a CS player entered a Q3 server thinking they would own with their 'mad aim' only to be utterly denied, I'd have enough money that I would be able to take hunter's mum off the street.

Anyway, if you want to play CS, fine, you run (oops did I say run?) you walk around and crouch and camp and do all that other fun CS stuff, and let the (whatever else) players do their fun stuff. Easy.

Maybe the CS players find that 30fps in Q3 is smoother than 30fps in CS, who knows.

all i have to say is watch Sturdy play CS
hes a rail freak in RA3 and pulls off arse shots with the AK-47 from the other side of the map through a corner into a moving targets head....

Personally, I think pixel perfect aiming whilst not moving is somewhat of a different skill to the way Quake3 players play (constantly moving; enemy location constantly changing, sometimes by large amounts; and the larger area you can hit). Not to mention avoiding enemy fire whilst navigating the map, looking for the advantageous position (high-ground?), and still collecting armor, health and ammo as you go.

Yep, I'd have to say that the skills here are a little bit different.

tha olnly bloddy skillz u need in cs is the ability to be a fukn loser and the ablilty to play a s*** fkn game while pulln ya dik at the sametime as u shoot ur team mate in hte bak of the head with a fokken handgun the will fokken miss at pointblank range n probabnly kill a hostage

Hrm, well i play both CS and Quake3, and Quake3 takes more skill to be good at then CS, so I guess CS is a little un-skillful at times.

...

cyph, get back to work biatch!

I think that there are simply DIFFERENT skills involved in each game. I prefer Quake 3, but only beacuse I dont like getting raped 3 seconds after starting then sitting out the rest of the round. At least in Quake 3 I can respawn immediately after getting raped...

wtf you on about aurora.

im using my telepathic link to my computer to send this.


doooo dooo dooo dooo.

/me wait for the obligatory "respawing after you die isnt realistic" type comment


---

consider this scenario axis, lets put a railgun in CS, and you would find that l33t q3 railerz0rs would own anyone on the server, after all, its not exactly hard to rail something that migrates across the screen at a snails pace.

as nats said, its not easy to hit something with a rail gun in quake3 when the player is constantly moving, and shooting at u. a good railer in quake3 has far more skill then a sniper in cs. u cant stand still with a sniper rifle in q3 and kill anyone that comes into view with ease.

also, it takes about 1 week at the most for a q3 player to become good at CS(which doesnt conversly apply), and another week before they see the light and return to a game with accurate in game physics, no cheaters, minimal abuse, no constant whinging, and a frame rate that is 3x faster at least, even though CS is based on an engine which is more then 5 years old, while quake3's is a relatively new one, with fancy stuff.

so tell me exactly, where is the lack of skill in that???? cause i sure as hell don't see a problem, the only problem i can see is if you q3 players can only hit targets with guns that fire continuoously and stay accurate so you can start shooting and DRAG the tracer fire over your target, well sorry, guess you'll have to learn to be a little more accurate wont you.

haha, I like playing games that have targets that actually move.

rofl.

trog lays smaq down.

axis wrote :if all you q3 people are so amazingly accurate with your l33t railing skillz then why can't you totally own a cs server with those same skills, pick up and ak47 and 2-3 well aimed bursts will down any player.

ak is ghey and unaccurate , ask the majority of the good cs players "clan jv and mv" just examples
rail is nuthing like an ak
awp is nuthing like it either
q3 is a real game

rail = 100 damage, one shot
when i played cs i dont remember the ak doing 100 damage in one shot, at least not if it wasnt a headshot..
u cant compare the 2 guns

railguns are gay it should have stayed in quake2

what he is saying is that the ak is extreemly accurate for the first 2-3 shots so if u are awesome with the railgun (therefor have good aim) you should be able to use the ak accuratly in bursts

Hmm why do cs players suck in quake 3?

*cough*s*** netcode*cough*

ok well i used to be a q2 player and i was pretty good at it, i wasnt awesome or anything but i could still hold my own. and i think that describes my skill in cs

[IcP]SoulHunter :( You're first comment up top, you suck!

i would say because the way q3 and cs are played is totally different and its a bit hard to compare the playing styles between the 2

YADA YADA YADA...i got bored..i only read half of the first post..to boring just like cs...yawn..

but the games are not being compared

all that is being compaired is aiming ability

yawn....cs...boring

the type of game effects that
the styles are totally different
quake 3 is run around like a bullet shooting as you go
where cs is more sitting and getting a good shot
and cs is slower

yeah ok...sheesh...im like just mucking around here...its just i dont like cs...its like so boring...no excitement...to simple

so therefor cs is easier to aim in and so a q3 player will then have an even greater aiming advantage

you aren't getting it are you
the games are different the mouse speed is different cs is slow and most hard core q3 players like the speed

i didnt say that...i meant that playing stile..walk..crouch..shoot..jump...bunny hop..and so forth..wheres the fun in that

german leave the conversation

I play both and i can say i'm a pretty good player at both...
atm i like q3 better coz it's better graphics, a LOT faster and more intense....
it's so mush better than cs
but i still play both

most of you dont seem to mind pulling your own chain, so to speak do you ?

"yeah well i was REALLY AWESOME at quake2 I COULD HAVE OWNED ANYONE HERE MAN!"

i don't go that far
i say i can hold it with most but there are some people that just own severely
and i suck at duels too

i stated my skill levels at the two games so that it woudl give an indication of aiming required

i can rail good but the main reason i don't play cs is because its too slow the same reason why i don't like most rts games

trotj0r, if u think the ak is inaccurate then u r obviously some stupid retarded cs newbie who doesnt know anything

what jive members said the ak was inaccurate anyway?

Each to their own, I say. Team Arena 0wnz0rs tho :)

About this aiming s***...

The ak47 kills in one shot to the head. I'd like someone to tell this to the best Q3'er in QGL and them jump into a server and it be interesting to see the damage they can do.

To the people that say "in cs you just sit and aim at a moving target, whereas in Q3 you are moving too".

True, but the best CS players go for the head every time. Hitting a headshot at a long distance is pretty f***ing hard when you can hardly see their head. And CS isn't all sitting around, ffs people drew to much of an opinion from the RAC vs SAS cs_militia match a few months ago. Anyone who saw the f0 vs LS final on dust saw quite a different style of play. Nothing to do with the clans, just the map.

Anyway, I enjoy both games. CS is the game I started with so naturally I've stuck to it, but I always enjoy a game of Q3 at a lan.

As for skill, as much as I hate to admit it, if you get a good quaker into a game of CS they will do very well, and will only get owned cause they won't know the maps or there are some real elite CS players in the server. Whereas a top CS player will get owned in a game of quake or RA3.

hehehe

well said nitro :)

oooo nice response there nitro..=P

well i think it is time to voice my opinion!!

i myself have played q3 a lot more than cs and i can safely say that cs requires way more skill than q3, i am a good shot with the rail gun in q3 but it doesnt help me at all in cs, cause it is totally different, sure q3 has a skill level about it but, your bullets always go where u point..

hmmm

people please dont flame dangles he meant well :)

dangles that is exactly why q3 requires more skill then cs

if the bullets go exactly where u point and you hit your enemy, that means you have used SKILL to hit them

in cs if the bullets dont go where u have aimed and u killed them, that mean that u used LUCk to kill them

edit- notice i said 'if' the bullets dont go where you have aimed, i am not saying axis is wrong i am just suggesting a spray and pray situation

none of you have come up with any reasons why cs is unskillfull

"haha, I like playing games that have targets that actually move." this quote from trog is simply ignorance, sorry trog, not trying to be offensive, but it just shows you don't know much about the game.

so I'm still waiting for people to tell me why cs is less skillful....

maybe you quakers shoudl watch some good mp5ers play the game, the tactic with the mp5 is keep moving, jump as much as possible while in combat, not to mention that the gun is very accurate, if your good with it double headhots on an pponent while in mid air are a regular occurance, and there is nothign unskillful about that.

jumping and shooting mp5 accuratly is being taken out in 1.1 incase u didnt know axis

thank god as well, mp5 accounts for 50% of ALL my deaths, f*** im sick of that s***

i am not saying it isnt skillfull, but it isnt in the spirit of the game ie counter-terrorism simulator

the first bullet of any gun DOES NOT go in the middle of the crosshair.

what gave you that crazy idea axis?

and another thing, do not ever, ever say anything is a fact without proof (unless someone has allready proven it). that is just your opinion, definatly not a fact.


the accuracy of any gun depends on your position and state.

crouching makes you more accurate, jumping makes you less accurate, moving makes you less accurate ect.

quake is considered more skillful because you're moving fast while trying to kill others who are also moving fast (you can also walk or stand still, but you'd probobly die very quickly)
in cs your trying to kill others who are moving slowly or standing still while you yourself are moving slowly or standing still.

both games require skill to accel at, but quake requires more.

"the first bullet of any gun DOES NOT go in the middle of the crosshair.
what gave you that crazy idea axis?"

bulls***, it does so, not if your moving but otherwise crouched or standing the first bullet is accurate, the only exception is on unzoomed sniper rifles.

eventhe para's first bullet is pinpoint accurate, try para sniping, its quite possible, just not as effective because you only get 1 bullet hits since it recoils a lot imediately.

now someone is gonna say oh how gay it aint pinpoint accurate when your moving, well the skill is strafing, stoping for the briefest of moments to shoot then continue strafing, and that only really applies to very long range, for middle and close distance the ammount by which your weapon's accuracy is f***ed by movement isn't very much, and i think pistols are accurate no matter what your doing movement wise, but i havn't really, tested that out throuroghly, but i know im righ tbaout the other guns.

http://dem0n.qgl.org/images/mgifz/m_beaverdam_sheeny.gif
http://dem0n.qgl.org/images/mgifz/m_insular_shaft.gif
http://dem0n.qgl.org/images/mgifz/m_eunuch_bfg.gif
http://dem0n.qgl.org/images/mgifz/m_impassive_pummie.gif

QUAKE !

thats it, Axis vs any quake player in both games!!!,.

Do YOU accept the challenge? I 20 point game in q3dm17 and 10 rounds as CT and T in militia.

Axis is the god of CS of course, so he'll easily own in both games i bet. *cough*

"now someone is gonna say oh how gay it aint pinpoint accurate when your moving, well the skill is strafing, stoping for the briefest of moments to shoot then continue strafing, and that only really applies to very long range, for middle and close distance the ammount by which your weapon's accuracy is f***ed by movement isn't very much, and i think pistols are accurate no matter what your doing movement wise, but i havn't really, tested that out throuroghly, but i know im righ tbaout the other guns."

A huge f***er of a sentence but well said :-)

Taking out a pesky AWPer with an AK or deagle at a distance has to be one of the most satisfying things you can do in the game :D

I do get a little annoyed from time to time with how they have changed the recoil over time. Ever installed old HL patches and beta 5 before? First thing you'll notice is the incredible accuracy of the weapons, they still had recoil but no where near as much. That's half the reason people like resillient and scooby turned from CS to Q3 I think. Yes res used to be a CS king.

Its ok res, you can come out from hiding in the corner :P

It might not be that q3 requires more skill than cs, but the general skill levels in fps games are much higher for quake players than cs players :P~

btw, i do think q3 requires more skill that cs.

Why stop there maxe? because Axis is so damn s*** hot, allegedly, we shouldn't use just ANY quaker to prove the point, let's get pyfe or lobby or limpz or somebody of similar skill eh? :)

im s*** at quake
but can you please point out to me what that has to do with the topic? nothing? didn't think so.

im crap at it becasue when i played it i didn't find it enjoyable, i find it repetetive and boring and so i neverplayed it again, ill play it at a lan with friends if other people want to, but seeing as how i neer practice i can't be expected to be good.

anyhow, now that we have that totally irellivant issue out of the way... can either lyco or maxe coem up with a reason why cs doens't require skill????

im s*** at quake. now what does that have to do with the topic? nothing? didn't think so.

the first tiem iplayed the game i found it boring so i didn'tplay it again. i paly it at lans with friends if they want to play it, but other than that i never play it, so i guess i can't be expected to be good at it. i enjoy UT instagib andim pretty good at that, so i guess i have the necessary aiming skills to be good at quake but since i don't like it i have no intention of playing it.

now that we have that totally irrelavent poitn out of the way can either maxe or lyco come up with a reason why cs doens't require skill???

bah it said server overloaded when i posted the first one, soi had to write it agian, looks liek it did post after all, meh

all i find repetative is ur constant bitchin

i mean it seems u take the most outlandish (dictionary for axis) viewpoints for anything, just to start a flame war

its rather sad really..dont u have anything better to do

the fact that you replied shows you don't have anything better to do either

so why don't you take those hands of your off the keyboard and put them back where they belong..down drail's pants.

It was sarcasm, perhaps you should look that up in a dictionary sometime. Perhaps if I'd put a winking smiley instead it would have rammed the point home to the simpletons. Oh, maxe and I also take great pleasure from rattling your cage because you are by far the easiest person to troll on this board.

Anyway, the point wasn't totally irrelevant, I can almost guarantee that you have more hours on quake than many of the elite quakers have on CS. The point being that if you are a top quaker you are more likely to fare better in a game of CS than your average top CS player would in quake. One could possibly infer from this that it requires more skill to be a top quaker by virtue of the previous point.

Whether or not you agree with that is of no consequence to me, but you will probably try and make something out of nothing as per usual and then take a stance that goes against the tide of public opinion.

you're a poof axis.

After watching the finals at QGL last year, I would put down that the main skills you have to master is learning the best places to camp (map knowledge), have good aiming and be willing to sit in that spot untill some dumb guy runs into your kill zone. This led to some pretty boring (to watch) games (no offence intended to any CS player).

Quake3 requires you to ...

Learn the map backwards (literly run around backwards),
The use of the physics engine to do mildly insane moves, which give you a advantage.
Before anyone crys out (CS players have to use the physics engine), rocket jumpings, grenade jumping, leaping around corners, bunny hopping, straf running and bouncing of anything that is solid enough to give you that little bit extra is a calling card of a good player.

Learn multipule weapon configerations. Unlike CS your choice of weapons changes constantly though one game, and all the weapons are very effective. However some weapons are more effective than others in certian areas.
While weapons like the awp blow big goat balls at close range, your only choice is to go to pistol (or knife) for the most part. Leaving you with a limited selection.
Quake3 pretty much allows all the weapons to be used at any time, but certian weapons are better for certian things, being able to predict exactly when to have the right weapon out is one of the calling cards for a good player.

Aim skills, While the weapons may all point at the x-hair during firing, that guy that you are trying to shoot can realy move. Fire up a copy of quake1, and then challenge shad to a game (I know he will love it), and try and kill him (assuming he doesn't stop running the mega, red, shaft, rockets, gl, quadnail).

It was watching Shad recently playing Quake (not quake2 or quake3) where my redifinition of skills came from. Shad would merrly bounce around the map and insane speeds, jump around 180d arcs (with more than 5 body lengths between), and rocket jump of a little ledge all the way to a set of lifts (map dm3 if anyone still has quake), that jump is insane if you have never seen it before.

Quake (and its lessor sequals) requries a intense amount of skills to even have a chance of playing any of the good players. Not only in a comp like mode, but just for fun.

I have played CS, and gotten my arse handed to me on a plate. Normaly by people hiding right back in the far left hand corner of the map, with little pissy shots. Sometimes I get fully owned by some good tactics. However I very rarly see anyone say ... OMG f***ING AWESOME SHOT !!!!. You see this often in quake (and its lesser sequals), after someone gets bounced from a rocket, who then rocket bounces off a wall (or the roof in quake), followed up by a awesome rail shot as he moves at 3 times the speed of sound across the map, which totaly wacks the other guy.

I'm not saying in this post that CS sucks big goat balls, and everyone who plays it is a retard. Far from it, 40 odd thousand people where playing it the other night world wide, compaired to the 4 thousand that quake3 managed to pull in. Why is this? Probably because Halflife was one of the biggest selling games of the year, and the mod is basicly that even a complete s*** player can get a kill every now and then while camping. That makes it feel for mr noobie that he can actualy play this game.
More advance players obviously have found something else they like about it, although I can not for the life of me work out what it is, probably something to do with tactics, and over comming a team of equal skill in clan matches.

Just a point on tactics I touched on before. If anyone thinks that good players do not have a constantly updating tactics for a map, they need to play some good players.

Roger that.

theres 1 thing to remember about half life in general and netcode, what you see on your client is often not what the server sees. you see a shot that most definately hit the enemy, and the server registers it as missing the enemy. i think typodemon summed up the reasons why quake x requires more skill so i shall say no more.

theres 1 thing to remember about half life in general and netcode, what you see on your client is often not what the server sees. you see a shot that most definately hit the enemy, and the server registers it as missing the enemy. i think typodemon summed up the reasons why quake x requires more skill so i shall say no more.

theres 1 thing to remember about half life in general and netcode, what you see on your client is often not what the server sees. you see a shot that most definately hit the enemy, and the server registers it as missing the enemy. i think typodemon summed up the reasons why quake x requires more skill so i shall say no more.

0wnage post typo ...

something else that should be mentioned is that all the weapons in cs are hitscan ... ie. point then shoot and whatevers under the crosshair (or whats RND + X + Y to the left of it) cops it INSTANTLY ...

in q3 u have to TIME rockets ... which takes a LOT of kill (a f***ING lot) ... mid air rockets, (or better yet mid air grenades where u have to take into account the arc) ...

nothing in cs comes close to that ...

kill skill whatever ...

i never claimed that quake3 requires less skill, or that cs requies more, i simply think you are idiots when you go on abotu the weapons being inaccurate to the point of removing the skill from the game, becaseu that is bulls***, i agree that the learning curve for cs is not as steep, you can be average quicker, however i still think that to be really really somethign special at cs takes about as much tiem and effort practice wise, and skill wise, or pretty damn close to.

the other thing i object to is the way quakers always dis cs for its skill level (or their perception of its skill level) when the point of games is to provide and experience and to entertain, in which case i don't see why it even matters, or why they'd comment. people don't paly cs as a substitute for quake, and vise versa, cs provides an experience that quake cannot, and quake provides an experience that cs cannot. now why people can't just accept that.

and as far as gross generalisations go, it woudl seem that quake players in general are far more religious abotu their game (i.e. sad) because they have predjudices agsint people thatplay other games and predjudices against any company thatmakes similar games to quake. when um really the fact is its just a game....

Indeedly hiro.

Counter-Strike was made for a wider audience. It's easier to jump in and be (relatively) competitive.

A positive thing about cs for me is that when you play cs on LAN with your mates, 5 minute rounds 4 on 4 you get more results over time. More bang for buck.

yeah that's true, you can start off average if you have any skill, but that's becasue in cs you die so easily, tahtis becaseu its meant to be a semi-realistic mod, and i don't see why a game should be critisised just because every effort isn't made to make it into the most competetive competition based game as far as gameplay is concerned.

but the fact is that while any player can jon and be average, they'll still get smacked down by top players.

Two different games that don't need to be compared.

And anyway a lot of ppl play both.

if its just a game why do you care if people say cs requires no skill?

whats the big f***in deal bitch? (<---a general question, not directed at you in particular axis)

just goes to show...most people care what quake 3 players say...most people dont care what cs players say

axis ur nothing but a hipocrit, but thats another matter.


get any good quake (1) player onto cs, give him enough time to learn how to buy s*** and stuff (eg an hour) and he will be in the top 20% of the people in the server. thats after an hour or 2.

get a good cs player and throw him in a qw server, and he'll have his arse ripped apart for 2 years.

u wanna see skill then get some recent Reload demos. he'll show u more in 1 duel than python, zero4 or wombat ever will.

stez that is to do with playing style and knowledge of game physics and not to do with players aim which is what the post is about

plus i jumped on cs for the first time and was good at it despite having never played quake or any other type of similar game, and tha twas simply due to not being dumb, i just used comon sense and once i realised i was better than most people i decided to actually putin the time to get really good. plus your idea that a player would get owned for 2 years is rediculous, Ross once told me about how he came 4th in a quake tournament despite the fact that he only just started playing that morning, so he had mere hours to learn teh maps etc, etc. You can get him to tell the story because i really don't remember it that clearly. there are plenty ofplayers who never get good at cs despite playing heaps. besides, the fact that you say a good quaker will do well in cs only helps prove my point, becasue a lot of the same skills are involved. "skills" the game requires skill, that is what my point is. then howcome quakers are always saying hwo the guns are so inaccurate and therefore the game is unskillful???

I would of thought that the more inaccurate the weapon the more skill required to use it.Sounds like common sence to me but hey maybe I'm wrong though I doubt it.

Anyone who know's me will you that I spend hours and hours playing CS and while every now and then I pull off some realy good work those times are few and far between.If CS was so easay surely after almost a year of playing it I would have to be a champion?

But no CS is a hard game particularly when it comes to knowing how to use all the different weapons and how they behave.For example over a long distance the awp is a great weapon but then again a scout in the hands of a good player is equaly as effective.Quake3 on the other hand there realy only is one weapon for the long shot and thats the rail,there is no great decision making required there.

Weapon selection alone in CS makes it a hard game to get to know and then get good at.Knowing the map isn't even enough to get you by eg.a tight map like Prodigy is excelent for the Mp5 but if your playing against camping T's you'll need to think about other things like HE grens and Flashbangs.You can't just buy the first or prettiest gun you see or even the one that does the most damage because you have to manage your cash,which needless to say gets harder if your team keeps getting smashed.

If you realy believe that CS requires little skill then you obviously haven't played very much of it simple as that.

/bind g "+movedown ;+attack"

i've played qw, q3, and cs a good amount of time so i think i've got a good perspective on the situation.

i dont care if u keep on deluding yourselves, but cs requires f*** all skill. all u need to be good at cs is a brain larger than the size of a pea.

Axis: if there's some random factor to where the bullets hit then it'd be hard to develop skill in aiming if you don't know whether you're actually aiming at what you're hitting.

I played skirmish once (in real life) and after a few practice shots I had figured out the (curved) flight of the paint pellet thingos. By the end of the day I was sniping people from 20-30 metres away, aiming for the head, and most often hitting (they were hiding behind barrels so that's all I had to aim at). My friends on the other hand had guns that would not fire in the same direction every time, and they couldn't hit from any more than 5 metres away. No amount of skill was going to help them be able to predict which direction the bullet was going to travel.

This relates to q3 and cs in that in q3, you know where your shots are going to hit. Even if you've got 300ms ping, you know they're going to hit exactly where you were aiming when you press the button - the skill is then in picking where the target will be by the time the message gets to the server.

But in CS, you don't have this assurance. The reason why your 2-3 shot burst to the head from an ak47 will mostly result in a head shot is probably due to the law of averages. Am I right in saying that a single shot to the head from an ak47 is fatal? Why the burst of fire then?

In q3 I very seldom use the zoom feature when railing, so at 640x480 on maps like ra3map1 and ra3map4 with large open areas I often only have about 4 pixels to aim at, yet I still manage to hit with the rail (not every time, and often only about every third shot). But one or two pixels off to the side and I miss.

However, if the railgun had some inaccuracy to it, then the one or two pixels off to the side may not matter if I happen to be lucky. Say a railgun (with inaccuracy) fired a three-shot burst - at 2 pixels off to one side one out of those three shots may hit the target. Where's the skill in that?

And don't get me started on mid-air rockets - I have realised that lately I actually attempt to hit ppl in mid-air with rockets, but am nowhere near as effective as guys like Limpz at it... he's a mid-air freak. :)

Damn - and I was going to keep this short... :)

WART..BAH...wats ur problem...i was just saying wat i thought...so rack off...JESUS CHRIST MAN...pfft..

axis: ross was always a half decent quake player, and we all know he talks alot of s*** anywey :)

Still after all this, I dont think you have changed anyone's opinions on 'the random bullets still require just as much skill as playing q3' thing or whatever the hell was your points (i swear you've changed it like 4 times during this thread).

just give up :P

A few months ago I would have posted a long winded reply to this thread, however now that I don't bat for either team, I DON'T GIVE A s***. All I will say is that CS is full of bulls*** and anyone who tells me that the weapon code is perfect needs to get their head read and/or shot. Oh and Gobo, I didn't miss that cheap pot shot you took at me, may I remind you that you reside on a certain list. Mmmmkay?

everyone knows which team hunter bats for

Don't be a smartarse.

don't be a faget

Hunter-, seeing as you dont play either game piss off, ya little mongrel, and stick your f***in gay list where the sun dont shine.

This argument is getting no where simply because there are only a handful of people in here that have a good knowledge of Quake 3 and CS.

Should get Adrenaline or CandyMan in here... they're damn pretty good at both games. And an example of two CS players who learnt Q3 well.

/me moves Gobo up several ranks on the list. You turn will come sooner now.

hunter couldn't you just add yourself to the top of the list and get it over and done with

wtf is this list?

can't u run with a rail gun and hit with 100% accurate?

but not with the AWP.

hehe
I played Q3 for the first time the other day and I kept shooting at the head and wondered y the guy didn't die.

hehe. I had fun with the Rocket launcher but I kept on fraging my self.

Q3 is good if u want to get frags or get fragged really fast without all the bitching from CS.

Q3 = really fast paced fun action
CS = fun but u have to put up with lamers like Drail. :)

q3 = fun cause (almost) no one cheats

cs = fun cause everyone cheats

a couple of mates who have been playing cs since day 1, have recently stopped playing the game because of all the wankers and the bulls***, and now they play golf online because it requires more skill and the ball goes where you aim it. one of these people in particular was very good at cs.

"Axis: if there's some random factor to where the bullets hit then it'd be hard to develop skill in aiming if you don't know whether you're actually aiming at what you're hitting." quote from cerb, possibly the most ignorant thing that has been said all thread. ITS NOT JUST A RANDOM SPRAY YOU STUPID c***! FIRST BULLET PIN POINT ACCURATE!! f***ing be good when people can read.

ineffable why do you think cs is full of cheats??? is it becasue you got owned? do you realise every time i play i get accused of cheating, and other qgl palyers know that i don't, you shoudln't listen to everythign you hear, because i HARDLY EVER see cheats, and when i do its bloody obvious, given that i never come up against a palyer that can kick my arse i don't have this misperception that the game is full of cheats, its just that all these players that can't get as good as the good players can't believe that anyone could be that good. I dunno what servers you people play on but i never see cheats on ausgamers servers, occasionally you see people taht you higly suspect have spike models or wall hack, but they are always s*** anyway.

hunter:
get over urself ya silly f***
like anyone gives to s***s about this "so called list"
people would prob most rather be on it because they would luv the chance to beat the s*** out of you
so put me down for 3 or 4

btw....typodemon ownage :)

Due to the recent accurance of mine where i lost my privellege for cable, I havent played quake3 in about 2 months. i stopped playing cs at beta4. When i get cable back on saturday im pretty sure if i chose to lower myself to that of acs player it would take me longer to get back up to my old scratch of quake then it would in cs.

Now, im talking about a significant difference here...
Like say, 2 weeks with quake, and 2 minutes with cs.

Come on guys...why need to argue when the answer is just plane and simple...Stez had it perfectly correct but his bias over ruled his judgment towards Quake1. Im agreeing with him and saying that ALL Quake DEMAND more skill then cs...SIMPLE.

wog

ps: anyone can pull off a headshot, even ME for christs sakes !!

can someone tell me where these so called cs players that are "good" at q3 play?

oh btw i forgot to mention this before

if u wanna get rid of camping fags and people who generally play like poofs, get rid of the CS stats. if people werent so worried about looking good on a table then they wouldnt mind dying so much, and might actually run out and have some fun

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
:P

look, i don't really give a s*** which game requires more skill, seeing as how you coudl count the hours ive spent playing quake on one hand i rally woudln't know

but the idea that cs doesn't require skill and that the guns are just random spray machines is rediculous.

watch out for the new war brewin kids, Hardcore Q3 players vs Hardcore CS players - WHO CAN PULL THE OTHERS HAIR THE HARDEST
tards
....
CS good
Q3 good
fin

okay, my turn

i play both games for FUN. this gives me a perspective on it that is completely unbiassed.

CS is the sort fo game that is easy to get the hang of, but difficult to master. newbies can jump in, get a couple of bulls*** shots and feel good about themselves, thus keeping them in the game and therefore developing the skills as they play. as Axis said, its a game where you can quickly get to average. But to amster it - that is, to completely own at it takes a lot of time and practice, which keeps the better players in CS, as they know with time they will become better at it.

Quake 3 on the other hand is a hard game to ge tthe hang of. i remember when i first played quake 3 and RA3 i got so compeltely owned it wasnt funny... aeroth and asper were racing to see who could knock me off the edge first. But as i palyed more often on lans and now on the net, sheer will of wanting to become a better player kept me going. Now i know im still s***, but at least i have developed some skills that enable me to last a bit longer than a few milliseconds... Quake 3 is a steep learning curve all the way. It seems that its hard to get the hang of, then hard to master, but tahts what keeps those hardcore people playing.

CS is a fun game that makes use of quasi-real situations that give the players a chance to have fun in an almost role-playing (i know how gay this sounds) arena. The fact that you are using quasi-real weapons and they are doing quasi-real damage (note the use of quasi) gives them a sense of quasi-realism.

Quake 3 on the other hand is such a fun game because of its use of demented physics. Rocket jumping off everything and the very amusing bfg wall climb... it maeks for a fun game that requires a lot of skill to master.

though this thread originally started about accuracy of weapons (axis has a quasi-point there, getting a headshot with the ak-47 from long distance is very similar to a rail shot at long distance) it has degraded to a cs skill vs q3 skill... too bad the skill tpyes are different... but if i had to choose one over the toher i would say q3 requires mroe skill... becasue im more crap at it :D



Tung

Axis i think that the reason everyone pays out on cs when u post is because your olways going on about how good u are. Ive never played u and im sure ur a good player but seriously how many q3 players to u see constantly going on about how much they own everyone in q3???

i dont think ive ever seen one, maybe u should tone it done a bit and let ur playin speak for itself.

i think tung is 100% correct in all he's said

i think quake requires more of the freaky reflexs and psycho aiming, and im not sure if that just takes tiem to master or i just don't have the talent, i just assumed i don't have the talent

i like cs because while it still takes high degree of reflexes and aiming ability it also takes more brains i think, i think that there are lots of derros in cs because you just gotta have the right mind for it, i used to have the most s***box computer ever, but i did really well despite my low fps, casue of the way i played, the tactics and technique, and that's what i like about cs, its more that sheer freaky aiming skill and reflexess, even thoguh you need good of both of those aswell.

hmmm, make sense?

this thread needs a thermonuclear icon

yeah but TMWNN im a f***ing arrogant prick!!! its a fact!

"the first bullet of every gun is pin point accurate ON THE CROSS HAIR"

only if your standing dead still. imho, the reason why everyone starts talking about q3 skill vs cs skill is because you cant really just judge gun accuracy by itself. cs has all those extra modifiers to aim (due to movement etc), while q3 has none, and the differing playing style of both these games (ie. the skill involved in playing them) dictates these extra modifiers (due to q3 players being naturally used to moving aroung a whole lot more). this is a fact: when you move/jump/whatever in cs and fire your gun, it is more often than not, not pinpoint accurate.

so now i take your other statement of:

"if all you q3 people are so amazingly accurate with your l33t railing skillz then why can't you totally own a cs server with those same skills"

simply because when you rail in q3, you move around alot (to avoid getting hit and stuff) etc so a q3 player's shot will not be pinpoint accurate. and therefore, be not able to totally own a cs server with those same skills.

q3 skills are different from cs skills, as you admitted to here: "i think tung is 100% correct in all he's said" on the point where tung has said this "too bad the skill tpyes are different", whereby somehow you will find that your original statement above is incorrect. blah blah blah etc etc etc

ok pick apart my post now (though im not sure im actually making a new point, just trying to be a little more clear in what others have said)

yeah, or something

Quote from Axis:

ITS NOT JUST A RANDOM SPRAY YOU STUPID c***! FIRST BULLET PIN POINT ACCURATE!! f***ing be good when people can read.

Take a look at this video (DivX codec required) and you'll see where my opinion comes from.

If the object struck by the bullet was not destroyed - as the glass is in this case - I'd be using the marks on the wall to guide my next shot. But then again, that instinct of adjusting my aim based on the placement of the previous shot is just plain dumb on my part I guess seeing as it comes from many hours shooting real pistols. Pardon me for thinking that a game that tries to be realistic would actually be true to life!!!!

And Axis, I think you are actually the stupid c*nt for starting this thread in the first place... Feeling a little insecure after the skill required to play the game you think you're so good at was brought into question????

Face facts - you're just some lame-ass faget who needs to be secure in the fact that someone looks up to your "l33t homosexual skillz".

Well, that's my troll for the night.

omg I think I might agree with axis......

u seriously need to out think the other guy when it comes down to a duel.

U got a Deagle and the other guy has a AWP..
hmmm what to do?

I say Sniper the biatch with the deagle in the head if he is a newbie.
Or run and hide like Drail.
however u must get a knife kill if hiding.
:)

CERB YOU ARE SUCH A DUMB f*****!!! OMG YOU IDIOT!!!!

IN THAT VIDEO THE GUN IS NOT BEING FIRED BY THE PERSON's WHO'S VIEWOINT YOUR LOOKING AT

did you actualyl read the ponit of htat page? i read that ages ago

ok you total dimwit, the person shooting at the glass is off screen, what its saying is that the decals (bullet holes) seen on ANOTHER clients screen (not the person firing, another client) are not where the bullets actually hit, COMPREHEND??? the decals from teh perspective of the person firidn are 100% correct, thsi is becasue to save on download and make the game faster for dial uppers some things are predicted by the client.

now that has NOTHGIN to do with gun accuraccy.

hahaha your so dumb, you idiot, yo ujust made a totalyl irrelavant and stupid point. try again mate, please do, i enjoy picking apart your ignorant points.

boy axis seems like a nasty person, im a CS player and i love it, i think im reasonably good (god bless my Mp5 skillz) but over time (since 6.5) i've seen some real wankers come on and say how l337 they are and cuss on, WTF is going on? I love quake 3 as well, loud techno music and all, i can wind down, sure i dont own, but i can manage a fairly good frag count, Bass, he is incredible with a railgun in quake 3 and owns in CS, thing is i can see easily that this whole topic was to stir up trouble. Axis needs his head checked. He could ahve been nicer in delivery at least. another thing is ITS A f***ING GAME FFS!

morning!
or uh cuz i'm about to go sleep i have no idea what to say
anyway

I'm pretty average at both CS and Q3.. both games require a lotta time to really get used to, CS more of element kinda work with team to get around this area
Q3 more.. rocket jump here and rail his head while flying kinda element.. heh

anyways both games require a different kinda skill or whatever and both are damn fun anyway like they should
be. If you can't play a game, kick back and enjoy it instead of looking over every little thing and considering why this game is better/worse than any other game then maybe you shouldn't be playin the fricken games in the first place
daaamn

Axis: I refuse to respond to any of your posts until you stop spending so much time trying to sound like a hero, and more time learning correct spelling and grammar.

As if I really care whether CS requires skill or not - it's not going to affect my life either way, although it appears that your entire life at the moment is pivotting on the answer.

Oh, and get a haircut, you look like a girl.

http://beatninja.tripod.com/barak.jpg

ahahahaha good one f*****

why the f*** would you enter an argument when you have absolutely no clue whatsoever you ignorant moron, at least i havn't shown at absulute lack of knowlege on the things i discuss

stick to quake discussions because you obviously knwo jack s*** about cs.

oh and cerb, believe me, insulting my hair doesn't do any harm to my self esteem, i get up every morning, look in the mirror, and thank the powers that be that i don't look anything like people like you =]

and taht "woman can do anything" you added that in right? that wasn't in maxe's original remake was it? well it should say "women can do anything" ya dumb arse.

the flames continue on....

Hey, look at that - a response from Axis that's can be recognised as English!

I didn't do anything to that pic - that's all maxe's work, and yes he knows about the spelling mistake.

why the f*** would you enter an argument when you have absolutely no clue whatsoever

Take a look at the title on this thread. You stated you wanted opinions from q3 ppl, and I am a q3 person.

But I will not enter into any threads started from you as of now, as I don't think I deserved to be called all the names you have called me here. I am not in any way cut by them as I don't give a s*** what you think of me, but asking a particular group of people a question, and then abusing them based on your view of their opinions is not good forum etiquette.

axis you am faget

Its like every other hooby every one does.

U always get it. e.g Surfboard riders hate bodyboard riders, bodyboard riders hate surfboard riders. Surfboard riders own more then boogers. Boogers always say there's better moves etc etc.

So the same goes with skateboarders and rollerbladers. Skateboards always give s*** to rollerbladers and they give s*** back.

So it is the same with q3 and cs.

Q3 OWN j0r!!

about that video...

no matter which why you look at it... all 3 bullets hit in a different spot.. and the first one is the most innaccurate.

and from memory, in that report they did'nt aim to the side, or move the crosshair between shots.

and whats with the swearing and insults axis? are you trying to cover up the fact your wrong? or just trying to look tough?

FFS SMURF

look atht the pistol in hishand...HE ISN"T THE ONW FIRING!!!! someoen OFFS CREEN is AIMING AT SELECTED PEICES OF GLASS (are you with me) AND DEMONSTRATING THAT FOR ANOTEHR CLIENT THE BULLLET HOLE AND THE TARGET HIT ARE DIFFERENT!!!!! (anything unclear??)

if you watch teh same video from teh perspective of the guy shooting this does not happen

nwo i explained this clearly in response to cerb, can't you read?!?!?

people wonder why i get pissed off, f***ing hell, if anyone still doesn't understand ill draw a f***king diagram, scan it in and post it FFS!!!!

seriosuly smurf, i am finding your stupidity VERY hard to belive.

hrmmm.... can you say "issues"?? :)

This quote is taken directly from that page that produced that video.


"The reproduced research footage below demonstrates the use of the G3/SG-1, fired into the glass wall. The marksman agent is crouched in the firing corner for the glass wall, has double zoomed in and is aiming for the exact center of the glass wall. "


you calling me stupid is just letting off steam. But I seriouly can't believe your ignorance.


Did you see where the first bullet hit? If you did'nt, I'll tell you.
It hit near the edge of the glass wall. and the guy firing had a sniper in double zoom, was crouched and aiming at the exact centre of the glass wall.

you have read it wrong d******* becasue that simply doesn't happen in the game
ask anyone who plays you retarded f***wit, i have totally read that page and tehonly gameplay flaws exposed in it were taht when a person is crouched their head hit area half sinks into their body, meaning you can't shoot the top half of their head, and the very center of the primary knife stroke has extreme range

dont' even try to argue with me abotuhwo the f***gin game works because you have no idea, yo uare an ignorant f***wit and you really need to get a clue, whe whole thing im objecting to in this post is peopel like you that have the most rediculous misconception of cs game mechanics, f***ingplay the game, play it THOUROUGHLY and then agrue with me, it takes a long time to learn everythign abtuo how the game works. please don't argue again you are highly ignorant and most likely a raving homosexual.

i was ignored, im so devastated :(

flame me axis, flame me!

ok bitch,I have an EXAMPLE of why CS is less skillful than Quake.
When I had cable I used to mainly play Q3,and every now and then I would play CS for a bit of a break from Q3.
Then I deleted CS off my computer,and didn't play it for about 4 weeks,but after a LAN where we played a bit of CS I joined an optus server which was running the "aztec" map or whatever the f*** its called.
Anyway,the server was full with 20 people and I was a terrorist and all my s***kunt teammates got killed/died
within about 1 minute.
So as if I had a chance eh?
WRONG,I killed the ENTIRE counter-terrorist team by MYSELF with the sig-522.
and I'm sure in the world of CS some of these people were regarded as having skill.
So now If you can tell us about a CS player who hardly plays quake but can get on a rocket arena server and frag the entire opposite team by him/herself then please do so.
Otherwise shut the f*** up.
CS was made for all the people who suck at quake ie:people with no reflexes/skill/timing.
have a nice day.

axis sure makes a LOT of enemies. whens the next driveby scheduled?

barak/axis has already won the qgl forum "village idiot" award with his 30 frames per second debacle. Now he is going for the "tuff guy troll" award.

gg axis ya moron

god damn axis u really are a fag. whats with all tyhe extra pent up agresison in thsi thread. sin't ur dad giving u any any more ?

u wan't ppl who play q3's opinions. well thats what tehtopic says.

so heres my opinion

cs sin't any where near as skill full because of several reasons. oh and yeah i used to play the fagg0t. i played it in 3.1 only. why ? cause i wanted tos ee what it was like and what teh ppl who play it are like.


1. the fact that the game is movign slower doens't necesarily indicate a lack of skill. q2 moved one helluva a lot slower then quake or q3. but u still had to think very fast.

in cs i don't see the thinking coming into it. and i kwno tehre are tactics and s***. and yeah i dont' mean a total lack of thinking. what i mena is that the thinking isn't as complex. and as low level as quake3. (the game i will use mainly to ilustrate this) why ?

when u fight in cs. the weapons are hit scan weapons (for the stupid. it means no flying time for teh weapon). now this isn't a bad thing, the chaingun /mg the rail and ssg are all hit scan. and just about every body can take those wepaons to a decent level in both cs and quake 3.

but what can elevate u is who u use ur rl. gl. plasma.
the skill it takes to be able to use these. and i mena use it properly. where to place the rockets how far to aim in front to get a mid air rocket. that is skill, knowledge, experience. and one helluva alot of thinking to do in the space of .1 of a second that u have.

to the equivalent of cs. the fightig. as far as i can tell and from ur endless rants. the most skill that is different from quake. is to be ablt to burst fire. umm wow.

now ur gonna say. well there jumping and positioning. wow. the jumping in quake 3 is more complex ( bunny [strafe] jumping circle jumping) being able to string them together. being able to do it all backwards.

and then also the fact taht in cs u have limited ammo. till u pick up some one elses gun. in quake3 not only are u looking to continually pick up ammo cause it is a continuos fight. but u are gonna have ot eb thining about doing that mid fight. whiel also trying to time health and armour.

then throw in the fact that u are also listening for how low on health ur openent is. so that u can get into a situation where u can change ur gun. and every battle in quake 3 is extremely complex.

now from what i've written.the only thing that is at all going to be considerd a skill that is of better use in cs. is burst sprays. well umm not that hard to learn.

then ad in the fact that quake 3 is played about 1000000 times faster then cs.

so what do we have for cs. a much less comlex game. where u get more time to think about less things.

quake 3. less time to think about heaps of extra things. and more complex things.

2. the movement in the games.
in cs u move slow. thats just part of the game. u can't change that. but u move DAMN SLOW thats the thing. especially when u add in the fat that half of u walk around the map.

now there coudl be a few nifty movement tricks in cs. but i don't knwo of any.

in quake 3. bame u have so many thing to consider when moving it's nto funny. amm i gonna run hear. or bunny hop. wow f*** spam there dodge that. if i rj up there i can catch him here.

3. the inaccuracy of the guns.

this is mainly just for the topic.

why would we consider cs fagg0ty homo un skilled just cause teh guns are inacurate. cause it is gay. sure u say it's to add realism. but if ur playing it for the realism ur playing it for the wrong reasons.

but why does it make it less skill full because it's less accurate. when u can do burst fire.

most wouldn't ahve a problem with small random spray. but ti's not just taht. ti'st eh stupid things that are imposed on the conditions of accuracy. kneeling not moving. which slows it downn. and gives u more time to think. but u don't have that much to think about.

and then what if u do miss ? u don't get the insta kill. then u can't continue firing cause the gun is all fagg0ted up. and ur not always going to get ur cross hair on to them before u fire. so theres atleast 1 bullet gone. through in som random spray and at most ur hoping the of the 2 bullets that really ahve a chance of hitting that by some luck the bullet is gonna hit.

no ones trying to take away that yes their is a skill in putting the cross hair on that person. but if u do have to burst fire. u have to move the cross hair with them. thats if their. not standing still in the first place. and since the game is already so slow. then theres not much extra skill in that. cause i mean the cross hair is alrady on them. and there not going anywhere fast.

but why is this different to (ie looked upon as not as much as a askill as) railing. or usign the chain/mg. cause in quake. because the rail isn't instant kill. u might have to put 2 or 3 shots into them. three accurate shots of ppl that coudl have drastictly changed there positionn direction. and now be firing back at u.

how so is it to usign the chain/mg. bah not even comparable. the fact that these bullets don't do that much damage. and that u ahve to hold it onto a fast moving target that IS firing back at u now. thats skill.

now thats a rant

axis, everyone ive talked to, both cs and q3 players, think you're an egotistical f***wit, even the ones that have actually met you, and from this post its pretty obvious.

i kinda lost the digital camera, so i had to improvise, this sums up my opinion.

http://maxe.ausgamers.com/images/thumb.jpg

game, set and match.

I played beta 7 of CS, and a bit of version 1. Shad however keeps installing CS and slawing people. He kills people then when he finaly dies he logs ... normaly that is like 15-27 kills straight then shad goes bye bye.

Here is another little story. About a year ago (two), J0r (at least I think it was) played a rather good CS team in a game of CS. Now the CS team won, but only because they actualy knew how to place bombs, where the bomb spots where, and how to disarm boms. Not to mention they had all there s*** bound to keys, while j0r where running around with semi default configs.

At the end of the game the CS team where very shocked at the accuracy of the q3 players, considering that most of them hardly played the game at all.

To this day I see shad (being uber and all) go into CS and pop head shots off across the maps with a AK. No cheats, no scripts, just 4 years of using the rail gun.


If you want to see true skill, get a copy of quake, and play clanarea on optus. If you can actualy kill someone (intentionaly not holy s*** how did that happen kill someone, also not i fired a rocket and the splash just touched him and it killed him (basicly he only had 2 health when you found him) then you will be doing well.
Then assuming you die horribly (which you will) watch the good players run around the map at f***ing insane speeds, jumping from the bridge to the RL in dm3, or the window to the lifts (DM3 too). f*** you will scream get f***ed when the jump from side to side in the ring room above the mound and lets not even talk about jumping from ledge to ledge in the RA room.
Only one of those tricks require the rocket (for a rl jump), everything else is pure skill. Not only do this tricks allow you to lay slaw on the victim of your choice. If you can not do these things you are slaw, and if you have no idea how the theory goes, then you might as well not play.

Quake == very high skill game.
Quake2 == High Skilled game
Quake3 == Somewhere inbetween.
CS == Skilled game, and one that some people have learnt there skills to a extreme example.

i see.... umm, did i ever say at any point that cs was MORE skillful that q3??? i sure as hell didn't, i just said that cs is skillful, its not an unskilled game as a lot of people say, and comming along with stories of how you owned...well that's just a story ofhow you won using skill, so it kinda proves my point.

"To this day I see shad (being uber and all) go into CS and pop head shots off across the maps with a AK. No cheats, no scripts, just 4 years of using the rail gun." yeah, he must be an accurate bastard, guess that proves that the ak is pin point accurate like all the guns, not a random spray of bullets hey fellas???

"axis, everyone ive talked to, both cs and q3 players, think you're an egotistical f***wit" wow, i've never even met any of the q3 players... so that's a rather obvious lie isn't it. as for cs players, well i simply don't believe you a: becaue you don't even mix with the cs players b: if this were true then its weird how my worst enemies on tehi sboard used to be ross and mick...and oh my god, now they are my mates, in fact they were both at myhouse last night.... and, omg, how about the LS guys that 100% hated my guts that i get on with perfectly well in person.... hmm, nice try maxe...

its ok to be jealous becasue your ugly and im a hottie, i understand.

axis has a point

i mean he really does look good in a mini skirt

see? eat that c***s

I can't be bothered reading all of this thread.

I'd just like to say that I 0wN at both, thanks to heaps of RA2 :).

well in comparison quake players can say that it has no skill.

There's some really good posts in this thread; its good to see some people actually relying on testing and real feedback rather than just ranting and calling people names.

Now that I have my new PC, I'm looking forward to reinstalling HL and giving CS another go now (its been a while since I last played it, especially because Rukh has my HL CD DAMN YOU). I think I'll do some serious testing of this innacurate weapon stuff - from what I've read on this forum and elsewhere it seems there's a hell of a lot of opinion and some evidence which leans towards the fact that bullets can go anywhere in CS, which as far as I'm concerned immediately makes it somewhat stupid. I'll test that out though and see how it goes.

My opinion is that they're two different games and require different skills - like chess, and checkers. One point that keeps coming up in this is that the AK47's first shot (that Axis was referring to in the original post) is ONLY accurate if you're not standing still - to me, this immediately implies that CS is a much more strategic game, because you have to position yourself correctly to be somewhere where you'll be pseudo-safe whilst you line up your one accurate shot (just like a sniper in real life).

This of course in some camps (haha, nice pun) will imply that there's less skill because you're not moving while your shooting - in Quake 3, a lot of the railgun shots are taken whilst moving. In fact, one of the first lessons you learn in Q3 is if you stop moving to line up a shot, you'll die - I'm sure this is the same in CS to some degree, but I can't even count the number of guys I've railed whilst they've stopped somewhere and are trying to line up a shot.

I don't really dispute that there's a lot of skill in CS (except in vaguely amusing ways designed to inflame easily baited CS players, cough). When I get it installed, I'll jump in and pick up the AK47 and let you know how I go.

Good s*** Trog, I even saw Term playing CS late one night on AusGamers!

Well, you will be able to test accuracies and other s*** by playing on online, but you will not see where the true beauty of CS takes place - in a clan war.

It is a completely different game, and I would hate it if your formed your opinion of CS via a few online games against s***kunt schoolkids who have a fetish for TeamKilling.

Anyway, I suggest you have a seasoned CS player (like Rukh hehe) demonstrate how an AK47 would be used in a battle.
eg. Running around until you see a bad dude, then crouch and aim for head and fire a 2 round burst all in a matter of 0.001 of a second.

Part of the fun in CS is discovering how to use each weapon effectively. Like the 'crouch & spam' of the silenced colt, or the 'crazy jumping man with MP5', or the ambush and closerange headshot with the M3 shotgun. etc.

So Trog, there is alot more depth to this game than you will originally realise, so give it a good go, and you might even start to like it!

the idea that guns would be random is rediculous beyong beleif, you only have to ask around, and take a look, and realise that there are definately players that rise above the masses and consistently win and kick arse and are reguarded by all as skillful. this simply wouldn't be possible if the guns were inaccurate, becasue yes, that would remove the skill.

and dont say that to be good you just have to camp and creep up on people and then you will get lots of frags and people will think your good. Look at Drail, he has a high kill/death ratio on the stats due to his "ignore the map obvective and camp" approach, plus he racks up frags while never putting himsefl in any danger, but do any off the cs players reguard him as skillful??? no, they certainly do not. just so you don't try and use that argument.

because some people can be better at it than others, that's a skill?

if some guy works on an assembly line screwing nosels on taps for 20 years, of course he's going to be more efficient than some guy that just started.

its mundane practice, does that mean that the old guy is skillful? If so does the word skill lose alot of its meaning because of the ease of the task?


you can be skillfull at anything, but that doesnt mean that your skill is worth anything outside the game.

Quake players skills traverse to other games, cs players dont .. deal.

acid, i think that is because quake is all the fundamental skills of fps games in a simple but extreme form, all other fps games will use the skills learned there, whereas cs is a very specific and different game usign the fps concept. so basically once you have teh skills of quake you can take themto any fps game and then all you have to do is learn the game specifics, however if someone just plays cs, they are drilled into the way cs works, and that is all they know, adjusting to a different game would be harder.

but i barely play quake, and i can say that after playing cs extensively it has improved my quake ability, its just not as effective as quake practice.

besides, that assembly line thing is a stupid analagy, given that there are many players that play WAAY more and have played WAAY longer than players that can kick their arse.

if u wanna become a good cs player, remove the cross hair serious, i always find the bullets dont follow the hair, and i just aim off where they hit.!

if u wanna become a good cs player, remove the cross hair serious, i always find the bullets dont follow the hair, and i just aim off where they hit.!

that's rediculous
hwo am i gonna destroy an enemy sniper at over 100 meters with an unzoomed assault rifle without a cross hair

oh taht's right, you are probably oen of those fools who still doubts the pin point accuracy of the first bullet from a burst

just use cheaty paks like everyone else axis.

/me Nods

sif CS isn't riddled with cheating fags.

the HL engine is too old and gay

Q3 engine better. :)

Is this thread sill going???
They are both games guys..
Why don't you try the real thing instead of sitting on your arses and bitching about a game...
The army is always looking for new recruits....

It would be a bit of bad luck for you quakers though, theres no such thing as a plasma gun, repeating hand-held rocket launchers, lighting guns or hand-held rail guns... :p

Then again, this is a gaming site isn't it???
Ooppss... :p

true primal, but in the army we cant bat our eyelids and think of a few commands then suddenyl run at 500 times normal speed, see thru walls, and polymorph into bullet casings now can we? :)

Well i have been playing cs since beta 3 and also played my fair share of all the quakes and i honestly have to say that all the skill i think you need for q3 is to be able to jump around and shoot rockets everywhere and it doesnt matter if you die cause you just get respawned, but cs your life counts so you actually have to think to stay alive, it is also very team based, well lans are anyway, online gaming just turns into everyman for himself but i am getting off the point. Akso this point about the bullets shooting in random directions is ridiculas they guns are only too inaccurate if your some trigger happy newbie well that is all i have to say, and also axis aint to bad except he has a thing where he always uses qoutes in all his posts :)

tell me maxe if you will be so kind, why exactly do you think cs is so riddled with cheats? its not because you tried it out and got your but whooped is it?
well I'll tell you this, people know that I don't cheat, and i rarely come across a player on a server that can beat me, and when i do its always anotherplayer that i KNOW for a fact doesn't cheat because I've seen them at lan or something. now don't you think that aimbots would rape me? i sure as hell don't ahve the reflexes and aiming skill to compete with an aimbot. The bottom line is, that cs is not full of cheats as i suspect... and the funny thing is that the people who are always saing its so full of cheats are the q3 players who don't even play the game. so either a) its an excuse because you did try the game and got smashed, or b) its just comign up with another reason why cs sux (part of your extremely sad relefious devotion to quake, meaning hat you must bag all other games that aren't quake)

i've been playing CS since about beta 4, and i managed to stay around mid-level on most servers. i stopped around the time the cheating started to get out of hand but I did try beta 1 once or twice and it was f***ed. I wont bother describing the amount of cheats but you only have to look at this forum for more than a few seconds to see another pissed off thread from someone sick of cheaters.

Im not totally devoted to quake, i simply find it the only game on the market at the moment that suits the style i want to play - ie, fast, intense and frags are gained entirely by skill. There is almost no "lucky-shot" factor in quake, therefore the only way to win is by being simply better than everyone else.

HAHAHA exactly what i suspected, you played version 1, got your arse kicked and immedeately jumped to the conclusion that everyone was cheating

ok you have any proof??? the only cheat that was obvious was the speed cheat but that whole thing seemed to only last a week.

ahahah it'll be so funyn if you reply with "oh man, they kept shooting me in the head straight away, such cheats, no one can be that accurate"

thign is i get called a cheat constantly, and plenty of people can vouch for the fact that i don't, people like you just jump to that conclusion whe faced with oponents who's skill is so far above your own you can't believe it.

f***ing hell, your seriously f***ed in the head arent you?

I played version 1, and it was f***ed from the cheating stemhead. where the f*** did i mention having my arse kicked? Its true, i didnt play too well, but unlike 90% of the faget cs community i can handle being beaten by people of a higher skill level. But when im beaten by some faget who can see thru walls and i have to wait 5 minutes until two sk campers decide to attack each other before the next round begins, it wears a bit f***ing thin.

i asked you what evidenc eof cheating you thought you had
becasue i get accused of having a wall hack due to the pin point accuracy of a3d, not to mention teh fact that it maximises your hearing range 3 fold.

I concur Axis.

I have an A3D soundcard and it does empower you with god-like abilities.

Especially with my UberHeadphones :)

ahaha i knew you did you f***er, cause you are always heaps more aware than most players, harder to come up behind.....f*** you!! =]

I play RA3 a heap more than I play CS nowadays, and account myself as a half-decent q3 player. Id rather quake3 over CS anyday on free for all servers basically cause newbie camping sluts just piss you off. The BS headshots just got too much.

Now when i go play cs I find it REALLY slow and keep feeling this urge to rj around everywhere :P

I started with doom, then quake (1), then CS. Now I much rather q3. :)

My $0.02 (again :P)

I play RA3 a heap more than I play CS nowadays, and account myself as a half-decent q3 player. Id rather quake3 over CS anyday on free for all servers basically cause newbie camping sluts just piss you off. The BS headshots just got too much.

Now when i go play cs I find it REALLY slow and keep feeling this urge to rj around everywhere :P

I started with doom, then quake (1), then CS. Now I much rather q3. :)

My $0.02 (again :P)

I play RA3 a heap more than I play CS nowadays, and account myself as a half-decent q3 player. Id rather quake3 over CS anyday on free for all servers basically cause newbie camping sluts just piss you off. The BS headshots just got too much.

Now when i go play cs I find it REALLY slow and keep feeling this urge to rj around everywhere :P

I started with doom, then quake (1), then CS. Now I much rather q3. :)

My $0.02 (again :P)

thats 6 cents from you plague... and thats 6 cents too much :D

Tung

sif EAX don't own A3D!

EAX + my leet Kenwood headpones = PHWOAR~!!!

if you really think that EAX is better than A3D then
a) you havn't experienced both
b) don't even understand the difference between the two, because once you do you will realse that A3D is an infinitely more valuable gameplay asset