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Author
Topic: Veganism
Phooks
Posts: 3381
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Hello friends. Let's do a Friday thread. I'll kick off.



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Most human beings – those outside what Rorty called our "Eurocentric human rights culture" – are unable to understand why membership of a species would in itself be sufficient for inclusion in the moral community: "Most people live in a world in which it would be just too risky – indeed, it would often be insanely dangerous – to let one's sense of moral community stretch beyond one's family, clan or tribe." Rorty wrote: Such people are morally offended by the suggestion that they should treat someone who is not kin as if he were a brother, or a n***** as if he were white, or a queer as if he were normal, or an infidel as if she were a believer. They are offended by the suggestion that they treat people whom they do not think of as human as if they were human. When utilitarians tell them that all pleasures and pains felt by members of our biological species are equally relevant to moral deliberation, or when Kantians tell them that the ability to engage in such deliberation is sufficient for membership in the moral community, they are incredulous. They rejoin that these philosophers seem oblivious to blatantly obvious moral distinctions, distinctions that any decent person will draw.[19] Much of humanity is similarly offended by the suggestion that the moral community be extended to nonhumans. Nonhumans do possess some moral status in many societies, but it generally extends only to protection against what Cavalieri calls "wanton cruelty".


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Poor animals, how jealously they guard their bodies, for to us is merely an evening’s meal, but to them is life itself


kgo
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Twisted
Posts: 12376
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I have no idea what the f*** is going on. I thought maybe this was a spoot thread and just disguised in the title.
hardware
Posts: 11813
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I would be quite happy to kill and butcher all the meat my family eats. I already do so with fish.
I believe that animals are lesser than humans.
I will never tell a vegan they are doing the wrong thing however. Good on them, the less meat they eat, the less of an impact i make.
I mean my whole family would eat the equivalent of about 1 cow, 14 chickens, 60 fish and perhaps an eighth of a pig, in an entire year. I am okay with this level of slaughtery for the sake of a balanced, tasty and easy diet.
I don't eat meat three meals a day like my grandparents did (seriously, no hyperbole), so i think i'm making progress.

I offset my environmental impact by having solar, a hybrid on a carbon neutral agreement, growing my own veggies, water tanks etc...
dais
Posts: 12296
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Been vegan for 2+ years and reaped the benefits. I eat a much broader variety of plants than I used to when I was younger, with relish. I have blood tests every six months or so and everything is good. I take a multivitamin and drink plant milk with B vitamins.

I also do yoga every day and am straight edge, which means I abstain from cigarettes, drugs and alcohol, as well as meat, dairy and eggs. So none of the good stuff. The outcome is that I can work hard seven days a week on various projects and get great enjoyment out of being healthy. I still get to spend a lot of time with friends and family and have mostly positive experiences. I play video games to relax and enjoy all sorts of music. I write a lot too.
Spook
Posts: 41276
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
im 45, eat loads of meat, especially red meat, hardly any fish, drink way too much and im also extremely healthy. (no cholestrol issues, blood pressure is perfect, liver and kidney function all perfect, only issue i had was slight vitamin d deficiancy)

i get a full blood test every year to check my PSA'S (prostate cancer in family).

i would probably rather not go on, if i couldnt eat delicious steaks (with my chips underneath). i would even be pretty sad, if i coudlnt eat chicken.

i am 100% with other people killing animals for me.
dais
Posts: 12297
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I'ma let you post Spook, but I gotta give you this:

www.cancercouncil.com.au/21639/cancer-prevention/diet-exercise/nutrition-diet/fruit-vegetables/meat-and-cancer/

The World Health Organization has classified processed meats – including ham, salami, bacon and frankfurts – as a Group 1 carcinogen which means that there is strong evidence that processed meats cause cancer. Red meat, such as beef, lamb and pork has been classified as a ‘probable’ cause of cancer. These classifications do not indicate the risk of getting cancer, rather how certain we are that these things are likely to cause cancer.

Research commissioned by Cancer Council estimates that in 2010, one in six (or 2600) new bowel cancer cases in Australia were associated with consuming too much red meat and processed meat.
infi
Posts: 24224
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

i eat more chicken than beef, especially once I learned how much more resource intensive beef is to produce. but veganism, helll no.
BladeRunner
Posts: 2928
Location: Queensland

Meat and potatos for me. Go Veg or vegan if you want, just don't pester me about it.
Denominator
Posts: 989
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I tell vegans I am an omnivore. Vegans have less cholesterol so their brains don't function as well.
dais
Posts: 12298
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/diagnosis-diet/201709/low-brain-cholesterol-separating-fact-fiction

Thankfully, even though plant foods contain zero grams of cholesterol, vegan diets probably do NOT cause low brain cholesterol. This is because the cholesterol in our brains doesn't come from the cholesterol we eat! Cholesterol is too big and bulky to cross the blood-brain barrier from the body’s blood vessels into the brain tissue—so the brain makes all of its own cholesterol on site. Cholesterol can be manufactured out of anything—carbohydrate, protein, or fat—so regardless of what we eat, we can always make plenty of cholesterol.
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2275
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

i eat more chicken than beef, especially once I learned how much more resource intensive beef is to produce. but veganism, helll no.


Just cutting out beef and lamb makes a massive difference. No need to go full retard(vegan).

https://i1.wp.com/shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/foodprint5.gif
paveway
Posts: 21578
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I probably only eat red meat 2 or 3 times a week sometimes even less

Agree with hardware, happy for others to be vegan if it prolongs the viability of red meat
Hogfather
Posts: 16903
Location: Cairns, Queensland

I don't care if others are vegans, much like I don't care about people's religions.

Just stop ramming this s*** down my throat. Seriously, f***ing stahp
dais
Posts: 12299
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
It's a thread about being vegan, it says so right there in the topic. If you don't like it don't click teh link. I love watching politics but I don't like peoples' opinions on it, so I avoid the political thread like it's AIDS.

The treatment of animals is something everyone should be concerned about, as it reflects on us as individuals and as a species.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Mahatma Gandhi
Ickus
Posts: 653
Location: Perth, Western Australia

I treat my animals with great respect, they get a variety of care.

Some times its just salt and straight on the bbq, or a marinade over night, or hours in a slow cooker.
PornoPete
Posts: 3385
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

It's a thread about being vegan, it says so right there in the topic. If you don't like it don't click teh link


Hogfather is just giving phooks what he actually wanted.

Someone had to.
Hogfather
Posts: 16904
Location: Cairns, Queensland

It's a thread about being vegan, it says so right there in the topic. If you don't like it don't click teh link.
I wasn't talking about this thread ya bloody numpty.

I have an otherwise good mate who continually posts s*** about veganism on facebook. I'm talking about people at social occasions who feel the need to try and make meat eaters feel guilty.

There's a reason the 'how can you tell someone is a vegan' joke exists. I fully expect door knockers anytime soon asking me if I have accepted our Lord Kale into my heart yet.
dais
Posts: 12300
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I have an otherwise good mate who continually posts s*** about veganism on facebook.


You mean they post about a topic they are interested in on their personal Facebook profile? I've done that myself on occasion, because it's my Facebook profile and I will post what I want!
Phooks
Posts: 3382
Location: Brisbane, Queensland


https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/graziers-confronted-with-devestation-as-floods-kill-cattle/10793502?pfmredir=sm

Poor farmers
Obes
Posts: 10660
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
lol fruitarians!
notgreazy
Posts: 960
Location: Other International


Phooks, don't be sillyknob. Farmers also produce the grains and vegan products you consume. If you're going to make fun of livestock farmers because you assume they're bad, I got news you for. Farming in general is destructive to nature and unsustainable (in it's current form).

FYI there is more to sustainability and ecological conservation than CO2 output. This OPED sums it up nicely:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

There’s no question we should all be eating far less meat, and calls for an end to high-carbon, polluting, unethical, intensive forms of grain-fed meat production are commendable. But if your concerns as a vegan are the environment, animal welfare and your own health, then it’s no longer possible to pretend that these are all met simply by giving up meat and dairy. Counterintuitive as it may seem, adding the occasional organic, pasture-fed steak to your diet could be the right way to square the circle.


Ickus
Posts: 655
Location: Perth, Western Australia


Well if we are going to post link to such great news sites...

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/vegan-parents-accused-of-almost-starving-baby-to-death-with-potato-formula/news-story/1aaf5641fde5307f27c46718ce7ef129


Phooks
Posts: 3388
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

As always, the point is missed.

The point was that hundreds of cows literally drowned to death and the article is on how the farmers have hardships.

Watch the video up top by Kurgestadt & their other video on organic food if you want to learn more about sustainable farming. Meat isn't on the menu for it.

Ickus - those parents are crazy and ignored Dr advice, they are not representative of veganism. Just like how terrorists are not representative of Muslims.
PornoPete
Posts: 3450
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

As always, the point is missed.

The point was that hundreds of cows literally drowned to death and the article is on how the farmers have hardships.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c84f0645a33393159d66bef

Literally the only reason you know is because farmers do. Jackass
infi
Posts: 24276
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

We get it - you're vegan.
Phooks
Posts: 3389
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Surprised you two of all people didn't take that Muslim/terrorist bait tbh
PornoPete
Posts: 3451
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Yeah so the trouble is that's it's quite obvious when you get drunk and want attention.
Phooks
Posts: 3390
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Yet again my SJW ways have been bested by your supreme intellectualism.
Nmag
Posts: 1132
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

I eat vegans.

Seriously, if I'm going to eat red meat my preference is lamb cutlets or veil schnitzel. Mostly I eat white meat like chicken or grilled fish.

I don't think the beef industry and the dairy industry are compatible with our planet.

I'm surprised people drink s*** like red bull and those green V things.
PornoPete
Posts: 3452
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

aside from the fact it's exactly what happened phooks, it's good you know when you've been beaten. It shows you maybe capable of growth.

But then you've got a lot of growing to get out of the abject moral failure of dunking on people who've lost everything because insufficient due was paid to your retarded pet causes.
notgreazy
Posts: 967
Location: Other International


As always, the point is missed.

The point was that hundreds of cows literally drowned to death and the article is on how the farmers have hardships.

Watch the video up top by Kurgestadt & their other video on organic food if you want to learn more about sustainable farming. Meat isn't on the menu for it.

Again, stop being a sillyknob. Sustainable farming is not about the exclusion of any one type of food group (in your argument meat/animals). It is a set of principals that define "an integrated system of plant and animal production practices having a site-specific application that will last over the long term".

The production of meat is an easy target when discussing sustainable farming, because you can point towards energy, land, water, food usage etc. It's wasteful in it's current money-centric form, and we should all aim to consume less animal products. But it can be sustainable, there is nothing that excludes it from being not. As a vegan, have you considered the crops you consume are most likely not sustainably farmed? Even your coveted "organic" farming has had mixed performances when reviewed under scientifically:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652618334784#bib30
Most research has supported the better environmental performance of organic farming; however, some studies have found that organic farming performs relatively poorly on an output basis, being less energy efficient and emitting higher levels of greenhouse gases.


There is nothing inherently sustainable or magical about plant based agriculture. There's nothing magical about organic farming or crop farming. Stop being so closed minded. I can find examples of sustainable animal farming if you'd like?

P.S Maybe we wouldn't miss your point if you weren't so snarky in your "arguments".
Phooks
Posts: 3391
Location: Brisbane, Queensland


Thanks for picking me up on my snark notgreasy. I'll be sure to hold myself above your standard for discourse, just like all the other nice posters in this thrad (for which you have equally applied these standards). You should become an admin around here.

your retarded pet causes

I got a new one for ya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism_(discrimination)

Stop being so closed minded. I can find examples of sustainable animal farming if you'd like?


So, sustainability and health aside, veganism is generally about animal rights. Heres a place to start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_of_eating_meat


PornoPete
Posts: 3453
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Haha phooks. Good one.

Hey everybody. The person who can't find empathy for farmers lives destroyed by natural disaster is here to teach us about ethics.

So, sustainability and health aside, veganism is generally about animal right


It's actually about being a pompous self-righteous ass. I can see why you fit in so well.
notgreazy
Posts: 968
Location: Other International

Thanks for picking me up on my snark notgreasy. I'll be sure to hold myself above your standard for discourse, just like all the other nice posters in this thrad (for which you have equally applied these standards). You should become an admin around here.

Glad you took my comments on board, including reading the scientific reference! Also really happy you keep moving the goal posts around, from sustainability to animal rights. Top notch s*** posting right there. Btw, as the creator of this s***show thread, you should really have your s*** in order. Instead of going instantly on the defensive.
So, sustainability and health aside, veganism is generally about animal rights. Heres a place to start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_of_eating_meat
Agreed, veganism is about animal rights. If you had kept it as such, maybe we wouldn't be going around in circles.

This quote from that wikipage is great:
The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?

I think we can all agree that all animals suffer and we should aim to reduce/change our consumption of such products, for better health, better environment and less suffering.
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