top_left top_right
bottom_left
Next Event: Unknown | Forum Rules | QGL Website | Event Registration
openFolder AusForums.com
iconwatfolderLineopenFolder LANs
iconwatfolderLineopenFolder QGL
iconwatfolderLineopenFolder QGL Forum
Author
Topic: F*&^ You Liberals - NBN is a mess
notgreazy
Posts: 745
Location: Other International

Yeah, another NBN thread. I gotta rant though.

I was up in Darwin where true NBN exited (FTTP). I've moved down to SEQ and FTTN seems to be ubiquitous, unfortunately I never realised that FTTN requires it's own special modem. My current TP-Link modem may or may not work because I'm finding mixed information on the router.

I never realised how much of a clusterf*** this is.

God damn the f***ing liberals.
system
--
Spook
Posts: 40706
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
im super excited about NBN, as my suburb has gone from not being on the map to getting it early next year.

buying a modem is nothing, its a once off purchase.
notgreazy
Posts: 746
Location: Other International

im super excited about NBN, as my suburb has gone from not being on the map to getting it early next year.

buying a modem is nothing, its a once off purchase.

I already have a f***ing modem that does ADSL and NBN. It's dumb.

You would have probably gotten FTTP before this. I was getting sweet speeds and ping in Darwin.

IN DARWIN! and here I am in city with a population that's quadruple the size of Darwin and I get worse speeds and ping.

Also this thread is about Liberals ruining NBN. Not about the NBN directly. I thought you'd be well into ripping the Libs SPook!
Spook
Posts: 40707
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
yer, of course the libs are completely terribad.

i was just excited that after going form no nbn ever, to getting it next year.

i currently have 100mbs cable, but its upstream is so completely useless, i cant wait to get NBN!!!!!
ravn0s
Posts: 19110
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

i currently have 100mbs cable, but its upstream is so completely useless, i cant wait to get NBN!!!!!


you're effectively already on the NBN.
Spook
Posts: 40708
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
nah, even with useless nbn, upstream is better.

i have a lot of socials to manage and waiting for my hi-larious holiday photo uploads is a pain in the bottom.
Geezer
Posts: 1
Location: Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
not really ya f***in dolty sack of potatoes :) it depends on the area. it's just ignorant to assume otherwise

have a client at work who just got FTTP installed in Coomera and she's pretty happy with it. it's not a half measure telco owned circuit with a coax leadin, it's the yellow coated fibre s*** into the NTU that's installed in the home office and not in the garage or next to the mains breaker cabinet

report was that throughput was a bit s***, but she's tech numpty and hasn't heard of a wifi repeater or powerline adapters. i guess that it might be the routing or the area's data transit infrastructure that's old af Gigabit transit and it's gets smashed with all the other recent installs going in, why slap in $$$,$$$ costing powered fibre cabinets when they can just over provision a single one and run FTTP to the endpoints? as long as the customer can see it's legit FTTP NBNCo don't have to buy the s*** out of expensey af trunking gear to fulfill the capacity immediately

i've seen other NBNCo NTU installs in development builds along the southern M1 region near Coomera too, so the FTTP is there it's just not retroactively being provisioned to be optioned alongside or completely replace the telco circuits in s***hole suburban dumps

if you consider it from a capacity planning perspective for NBNCo, it makes sense not to install and disrupt services en mass on the existing telco circuits of the slaves paying the interest on the loan but to new developments and enclaves, where the people who pay their bills live or will be soon anyway
Vash
Posts: 5472
Location:

yer, of course the libs are completely terribad.

i was just excited that after going form no nbn ever, to getting it next year.

i currently have 100mbs cable, but its upstream is so completely useless, i cant wait to get NBN!!!!!



I thought places with Optus/Telstra HFC are getting NBN HFC which is barely an improvement for upload speeds?
Khel
Posts: 23839
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Always gotta be one old geezer working hard to try and justify the clusterf*** the libs have made of the NBN
Geezer
Posts: 2
Location: Canberra, Australian Capital Territory

apparently it's only a clusterf*** if it's not available and you have one of those munty NBN-ready modems just begging for a plug in

you don't see Spook bemoaning the scheme
deadlyf
Posts: 4031
Location: Queensland


apparently it's only a clusterf*** if it's not available and you have one of those munty NBN-ready modems just begging for a plug in

you don't see Spook bemoaning the scheme
The difference is between FTTP and FTTN. FTTP is the old Labor unf***ed NBN and FTTN is the new ultra f***ed Liberal NBN.

If Spook was getting one of those s***ty FTTN points which are looking to be worse than regular ADSL 2 then I bet he would be moaning.
DecayingCorpse
Posts: 2285
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
God damn the f***ing liberals.

Why are you god damning the libs?
Everyone knew the clusterf*** which was their comms policy.

Blame the great unwashed public, that voted them in TWICE. We got the government we deserved.
Geezer
Posts: 3
Location: Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
so does the topic just make for a good old stompy politically slanted rant or is greezey just really a deep fried potatoe loving dolt?

basically all Libs can do with any competance is takeover and f*** s*** up. at least they only f*** s*** up for their other Liberal cohorts, which is thoughtful of them
FaceMan
Posts: 12857
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I get a msg from TPG saying NBN will be here in October
I thought i will prolly just stay on the same plan which is
Optus $60 + bulls*** paper bill charge $4 landline included no calls
Speed near 30 mbps off peak 100 gig or something dunno never look at my usage

cheapest NBN plan $80 for 25 Mbps + theres a landline phone charge
So I will be paying more for less speed and extra phone chArges
but download is unlimited.

Theres a 2nd tier plan which is a gay 12mbps i think
WTF thats almost dial up speed
Maybe if i was 70 years old and checked email that would be good.

LABOR f***ed up The NBN by promising absolute bulls***
Then the Conservatives come in and sliced and diced to give us something affordable and less build time but with GAY PLANS
GAY GAY GAY GAY*

*Not that theres anything wrong with that.

Its another Mr Magoo screw up
GOD I HATE TURNBULL


https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18620343_10211182414374436_2578956945644622512_n.jpg?oh=75077dfd789a6e317e99de3206d2015d&oe=59F0544F


last edited by FaceMan at 17:56:43 28/Jul/17
notgreazy
Posts: 748
Location: Other International

not really ya f***in dolty sack of potatoes :) it depends on the area. it's just ignorant to assume otherwise

have a client at work who just got FTTP installed in Coomera and she's pretty happy with it. it's not a half measure telco owned circuit with a coax leadin, it's the yellow coated fibre s*** into the NTU that's installed in the home office and not in the garage or next to the mains breaker cabinet
Oh Coomera, that's great. I don't live in f***ing Coomera. I'm already clearly talking about FTTN contracts, not FTTP contracts. Of course I realise some areas are FTTP in SEQ. That's what makes it even more insane is that I can move an hour south and I need a different router.

How the hell do you not find that dumb?
notgreazy
Posts: 749
Location: Other International


Why are you god damning the libs?
Everyone knew the clusterf*** which was their comms policy.

Blame the great unwashed public, that voted them in TWICE. We got the government we deserved.

:( Fair call. Fair call. I guess collectively all you f***s ARE TO BLAME.

WHAT THE f***.

f*** YOU ALL.

Spook
Posts: 40710
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
facey looking at worst nbn plans available and complaining.
Geezer
Posts: 4
Location: Canberra, Australian Capital Territory
if you look back at how the NBNCo administration have funded and managed the provisioning among private investors, ever since it was politicised for votes in 2008 or so it's lost any of the pumped up expectations and unless you've been living on mobile you'd expect that the scheme was going to become a corporate telco handoff for service provisioning

the only regions who could be salty are maybe Trunbulls rural neighbours who had to hear about the rocket launching the magical NBN Satellite for Ozemail-azing 6Mbps future of bandwidth has arrived BS

oh the dinosaur even went to the trouble of taking a Lateline interview banging on about it's amazingness

when he's waxing lyrical and is just the face of a French satellite launch company with the NBNCo contract, all his neighbours lost

it's hard not to love watching a launch though

meh

last edited by Geezer at 18:32:49 28/Jul/17

last edited by Geezer at 18:34:15 28/Jul/17
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39087
Location: Other International

i was just excited that after going form no nbn ever, to getting it next year.
That's what my mate thought and now he's on the NBN and gets reasonably fast download speeds but way more packetloss which makes playing games suck. He was forcibly transitioned off slow but reliable DSL. So not sure how much I'd be looking forward to it yet, unless your current Internet is truly terrible.
Khel
Posts: 23840
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I can't even tell who is arguing what in this thread anymore, regardless of who's fault it is though, it's pretty clear to see we've ended up with a pretty poor end product. With all the extra work they've had to do laying new HFC and even new copper, they may as well just have laid fibre from the start.

At the rate technology is evolving, by the time the NBN is finished in 2020 (if it is), they'll have to start making plans to upgrade it. The bare minimum, to stream 4k Ultra HD video is 25mbps (from Netflix) and that's currently the maximum they promise on some connections. And that's not some future thing, that's right now, it struggles to meet the demands placed on it right now, let alone in the future.
notgreazy
Posts: 750
Location: Other International

Nobody is arguing with anyone khel. I actually think nobody is even responding to anyone directly.

We are all confused and angry and we're all shouting at the sky.

I only just learned about HFC. Oh my.
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7678
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/consumers-expect-too-much-from-the-internet-says-ombudsman-20170728-gxkltn.html
trillion
Posts: 4238
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
should have been the OP context link

the rhetoric is not surprising really given the age, she'd probably be just as effective as a body double for Quentin Bryce if she wasn't a media muppet
Psycho
Posts: 6296
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I finally got NBN last Thursday, went with Aussiebroadband who have been amazing. Bought a nice top of the line recommended router and a 100/40 plan...getting sweet performance, even in the so called peak periods. Sitting nicely on @ 95/38 generally So sweet to finally stream stuff at 1080p with no buffering etc everyone in the house can use the network and no one yells out, "who's downloading stuff?!" anymore.... Couldn't be happier. Compared to my previous ADSL it's like star trek tech for me now. :) Online Game performance is a LOT better...maybe I just got lucky finally.

last edited by Psycho at 22:53:09 28/Jul/17
Twisted
Posts: 12233
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I've got FTTN. Best I can get is 30Mbps down (so 6Mbps better off than ADSL). I'm actually close enough to the pillar and node to get At least 75-80 in theory (via a DBYD request), but due to how they've looped the copper at the joins and things like that (NBN tech was telling me), they've added around 350m extra to my line length...f***ing FTTN. Whatever c*** brought that s*** in needs a good kick in the head.
Spook
Posts: 40711
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
also facey, you can turn off paper bills for optus, just go into your account and say "no more paper" at the computer.
paveway
Posts: 21314
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Lol the nbn is a mess because of a modem?

Drama queen
reload!
Posts: 7713
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
http://i.imgur.com/Zkz6IJj.png
still loving mine
FaceMan
Posts: 12858
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Spook I dont allow Telstra or Optus access to my Bank Account.
Both have stuffed up my billing more than once

Once they can siphon money out you get poorer customer service.
I cant deal with phoning India and having to translate when there is a problem.

I think Im going to go with TPG.
Ive never not had Cable Internet and I better get at least 20mbps or MY GOD THERE IS GOING TO BE ONE HELL OF A RECKONING
BladeRunner
Posts: 2736
Location: Queensland

Still on ADSL2 off-net. I am worried about the NBN with the stuff I see on the news and online. I don't expect too much from it, except to be better than what I have. I am with Belong and they are a sub of Telstra. I pay 70 a month for 500gb which is pretty good. I just looked on their site about NBN and I could get Unlimited data, 25/5 speed, 12 month contract with free modem for $75 a month. I am assuming that it will be better actual real world speed than what I get now, the maximum for ADSL2 off net is like 20mbs, I get about 14-15, which I assume is because of distance to the exchange?
trillion
Posts: 4239
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
he's finding mixed whingey information about his modem that confirms being a potatoe is different than a pear and it's terribly confusing alright paveway

don't laugh at the potatoe you insensitive clod
Spook
Posts: 40713
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Spook I dont allow Telstra or Optus access to my Bank Account.
Both have stuffed up my billing more than once

Once they can siphon money out you get poorer customer service.
I cant deal with phoning India and having to translate when there is a problem.


YES!!!! FIGHT THE CONVENIENCE!!!!
meh
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Yep agree, im happy with the NBN.

92mbs downloads 35mbs uploads @ speedtest.net consistently.

Telstra NBN fastest plan available $110 per month.

still 8x times faster than my old ADSL2 plan and only $30 a month /$7 a week more...

although I've seen the NZ speeds, sitting around 250mbs downloads.. Aussie internet still needs some work.
trillion
Posts: 4240
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
the maldies bro's are too busy out poaching paua or flying back and forth on Jetstar to spend time saturating the networks with Netflux un chull bru
FaceMan
Posts: 12859
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
problems in PommyLand too
Nearly seven million households should be given refunds on their broadband bills because they are not getting the designated minimum speed, MPs said yesterday.

Their cross-party committee said 6.7million of the country’s 22million broadband connections were slower than the proposed minimum download of 10 megabits per second. It also found that fewer than half of all connections were ‘superfast’ – above 24 megabits.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4741408/Millions-homes-cash-refund-broadband.html#ixzz4oC8DeMxH
Psycho
Posts: 6297
Location: Brisbane, Queensland


last edited by Psycho at 16:21:30 29/Jul/17
Viper119
Posts: 3294
Location: Other International

It's ridiculous how bat s*** backwards Australia is sometimes.
Twisted
Posts: 12235
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I am assuming that it will be better actual real world speed than what I get now, the maximum for ADSL2 off net is like 20mbs, I get about 14-15, which I assume is because of distance to the exchange?
Well, not necessarily. It depends. If you're in a FTTH or HFC then yes, you should get a much better experience (assuming your RSP is not under subscribing on CVC capacity to boost profit margins).

If you're in a FTTN area it is all based off your distance to the pillar and then from the pillar to the node. On top of that in FTTN areas they need to maintain ADSL backward comparability for 18 months, so for the first 18 months you might actually get slower speeds than your ADSL service (depending on your line length). Your uploads will be much better than before though, ADSL services were capped at 1Mbps so unless you get a 12/1 plan you will see at least a 5x improvement in your upload speed.

After 18 months the govt. guarantees you will get at least a 25Mbps sync rate (not real world download performance), but that is all they will guarantee. If you're in a FTTN area you will never see any improvement beyond 100/40 plans either (some right on the node will be able to get 130Mbps or something like that), at least not until they move you to FTTC. Once you go to FTTC you will be able to get up to 200Mbps down. People will HFC will be able to get 1Gbps and people with FTTH....well....the sky is the limit really compared to what anyone with FTTN will ever see.

last edited by Twisted at 20:11:07 29/Jul/17
infi
Posts: 23740
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

NBN should never have been built.
Insom
Posts: 4611
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

12 megabits should be enough for anybody
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18412
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I have FTTP at my house. 100/40. It's so nice.


NBN should never have been built.


You clearly have no idea the amount of data people currently use and will be using in the short future. Not everyone lives like you Infi.

Having a decent upload bandwidth has been so damn useful, my personal and professional reasons.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 17:15:11 30/Jul/17
infi
Posts: 23743
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I have FTTP at my house. 100/40. It's so nice.



You clearly have no idea the amount of data people currently use and will be using in the short future. Not everyone lives like you Infi.

Having a decent upload bandwidth has been so damn useful, my personal and professional reasons.

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 17:15:11 30/Jul/17


I have 100mb telstra HFC, and before that I had Optus HFC. I researched my residences before I bought. The market should have been allowed to sort this one out, just like they did with mobile towers.
Vash
Posts: 5473
Location:

The market had plenty of time to step in, Infi. They didn't. So it's the Government's job to get it done.
FaceMan
Posts: 12862
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I think Wireless will be the Future.
Speeds just keep increasing.

hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?

Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18413
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I have 100mb telstra HFC, and before that I had Optus HFC. I researched my residences before I bought. The market should have been allowed to sort this one out, just like they did with mobile towers.


No, no I don't think the market should for this one. Having a solid high speed internet connection is becoming more and more required for 1st world living, it will quite likely contribute significantly to socioeconomic inequality in less than a decade if connection quality is too varied. It already causes problems in remote/rural areas, the market certainly isn't sorting that out .. kind of like how rural areas were ignored with mobile towers.

The irony being that if the staunch had of just accepted that from the start, the FTTP NBN would still be happening and such foreseeable waste that is FTTN would not have happened.

Also, lol at "I have 100mb telstra HFC, and before that I had Optus HFC. I researched my residences before I bought." AKA, 'I could afford it, so what's the problem?'

last edited by Tollaz0r! at 18:24:46 30/Jul/17
Insom
Posts: 4612
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

the original promise of the NBN was not so much about faster movie downloads (although there is that) but a root and branches replacement of the ageing copper network

assuming that's a worthwhile objective I'm not sure how you achieve it in a purely market driven way
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39090
Location: Other International

Just started a Dota game with my NBN mate (staggrr) I mentioned above and was literally just about to ask him if he'd seen any improvement and he dropped out of Skype and disconnected

Basically the situation we have now is the worst of both worlds - we have the market trying to operate rationally but they can't because there's too much government intervention. But the government can't operate in the way it needs to because it will f*** up the market and the companies that are trying to operate.

Long-term readers might remember my suggestion from like 10 years ago that the government should have bought back Telstra :D
Twisted
Posts: 12236
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

the original promise of the NBN was not so much about faster movie downloads (although there is that) but a root and branches replacement of the ageing copper network
I think faster downloads is what people have really focused on. For me...my downloads are 5x better than they were, but my uploads are 20x quicker. In my case this is a game changer, 40x quicker would have been better but gone are the days where I have to maintain a 4G account just for uploading data files and work. Things like Dropbox, OneDrive, etc. all become instantly usable again for collaboration.
Khel
Posts: 23844
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I also think people focus far too much on the now, it was not meant to be a broadband network for now, it was meant to be a broadband network for the future. Just look at how much more we do with broadband now than we did 5 years ago, and s*** like this increases exponentially so how much more are people going to be doing in 5 years from now? And how can this NBN possibly hope to cope with it?
Spook
Posts: 40715
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?


you can get foxtel down the intenrets tubes.
notgreazy
Posts: 751
Location: Other International

I am glad a lot of people are chiming in to say how much they love their awesome NBN speeds (FTTP). This is what we should have been getting.
Arpey
Posts: 180
Location: New South Wales

The problem as I see it is that people treat the internet like it's a luxury on par with pay TV when it's really an essential like water and electricity. Unfortunately the policy makers are all too old to see this is true and will just continue half-arsed internet rollout until they are replaced by people not blinkered by their childhoods huddled around the wireless listening to big band music.
Obes
Posts: 10635
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?

They turn off DOCSIS, but Foxtel keeps coming down the cable. That's what happened here.
fpot
Posts: 25950
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

AKA, 'I could afford it, so what's the problem?'
AKA f*** you, got mine.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39091
Location: Other International

The problem as I see it is that people treat the internet like it's a luxury on par with pay TV when it's really an essential like water and electricity.
I think /Internet/ is an essential service (communication), but I don't think I agree that fibre performance-level Internet is essential. One of my (many) original complaints against the NBN was that it was far more important to provide everyone with a solid and reliable base level of Internet access first than making sure everyone had fibre.

I would encourage people to think about this in a "holistic" manner - what services do you think government should provide in order to maintain a base level of civilisation and comfort for its citizens? Thinking about it like this and trying to think about it consistently has basically informed my (current) entire political outlook!

If it's an essential service that you think the government is responsible for providing, you need to consider what other services the government needs to provide - for example, electricity, water, sewage, healthcare, education, etc - and their relative importance.

Internet is a little bit different to many of these because /some/ Internet is actually still really really useful. A kid living in the outback with a crappy wireless connection might not be able to stream Game of Thrones, but they can download a programming tutorial and create the next Angry Birds. This is (loosely) why I think the NBNs priorities are wrong.
Spook
Posts: 40717
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
AKA, 'I could afford it, so what's the problem?'
AKA f*** you, got mine.


you probs dont see infi facebook mode, but omg, hes got a heap of mates and relations that are EXACTLY THE SAME as him.

they get together and beat poor ppl and feel good about it!
Slappercx
Posts: 1985
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Rocking 100/40 with Australian Online, No issues for me even during peak times : ) .

#oneoftheluckyones
hardware
Posts: 11650
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
FTTP here, i was happy with my adsl though, now i just pay more and use more power because i have to power their silly box as well as the modem
http://www.speedtest.net/result/6505055288.png
Ickus
Posts: 613
Location: Perth, Western Australia

For me one of the big benefits of original NBN was to be the equalisation of service levels.

None of this crap up to X or Y depending on where your house happens to be, what the copper is like in your street or bad house wiring.

FTTN s***s all over any concept of service level equalisation as you can go from people with 100Mbps sync to people barely getting the 12Mbps minimum.

FTTC/dp goes a good way to making service levels a lot better across the board but is not being adopted by NBN enough, so it just makes a third type of maybe up to sometimes service.
Hogfather
Posts: 16767
Location: Cairns, Queensland

I think /Internet/ is an essential service (communication), but I don't think I agree that fibre performance-level Internet is essential. One of my (many) original complaints against the NBN was that it was far more important to provide everyone with a solid and reliable base level of Internet access first than making sure everyone had fibre.

I work for an RSP and can pretty categorically state that there are issues with FTTN. If solid and reliable was the goal for FTTN then its a bit of a fail, I don't really see what option there'd be than FTTP for that benchmark.

We now have a situation where the network is delivered via a s***load of technologies. Makes L1 support fun.

BTW nobody ever got back to me about wanting to advertise on here :(
notgreazy
Posts: 754
Location: Other International

f***.

Needed a new router so I got one from office works. It was all good, I got connected, good... really good speedtest results. >35mbps on 50/20 connection. But then streaming and skype issues appeared. Every 5-10 there would be a drop or a stopage of internet access. I would get a DNS not found error. Looked at the router stats and the SNR Margin (I think) is really low, at 6dB. So now I have the curse of good speeds but constant dropouts.

I think I agree with Trog, a stable reliable connection should be the goal of NBN. But I'd like to add: consistency of technology used to power the internet should account for something. I Imagine having to upgrade 5 different technologies is more complicated and expensive than having to upgrade just 1 type.
Twisted
Posts: 12237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

For me one of the big benefits of original NBN was to be the equalisation of service levels.

None of this crap up to X or Y depending on where your house happens to be, what the copper is like in your street or bad house wiring.

FTTN s***s all over any concept of service level equalisation as you can go from people with 100Mbps sync to people barely getting the 12Mbps minimum.
Too right. Further into the future as people become more data hungry and tech savvy you're going to have your house price knocked down a peg because you just happen to have gotten the s*** end of the FTTN stick. If I was buying a house with FTTN I would want to know attainable rates and then if the speeds were s*** I would be taking the cost of a technology switch out of my offer. No different to doing the same if the house needed a bit of repair/reno work done.
notgreazy
Posts: 755
Location: Other International

BTW nobody ever got back to me about wanting to advertise on here :(


Jesucristo Trog! you allow McRapeTheEarth to plaster this site with their s*** yet wont take money from a local company?!
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39103
Location: Other International

Too right. Further into the future as people become more data hungry and tech savvy you're going to have your house price knocked down a peg because you just happen to have gotten the s*** end of the FTTN stick. If I was buying a house with FTTN I would want to know attainable rates and then if the speeds were s*** I would be taking the cost of a technology switch out of my offer. No different to doing the same if the house needed a bit of repair/reno work done.
The problem is noone is EVER going to get a constant download speed from any service. The Internet is a series of tubes that connects all over the world through a zillion points and systems - one thing you use will give you a happy 100mbit download on your fat new fibre and another thing will give you 5mbit because that's just how you happen to be connected to it.

This has been a constant source of confusion for civilians the entire time I worked in Internet-stuff; they simply don't understand that because they once downloaded at a really fast speed, they can't always download at that speed.
I work for an RSP and can pretty categorically state that there are issues with FTTN. If solid and reliable was the goal for FTTN then its a bit of a fail, I don't really see what option there'd be than FTTP for that benchmark.
yep totally seems to be the case. I have no real skin in the game in FTTN vs FTTP debate, although I do think that the only thing worse than the NBN's FTTP proposal was the FTTN proposal.
BTW nobody ever got back to me about wanting to advertise on here :(
:( I think a lot of things for AG are on autopilot since I "left" so no idea what is happening. Feel free to do a forum post tho & I'm sure it won't get blown away :D
Twisted
Posts: 12239
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The problem is noone is EVER going to get a constant download speed from any service.
That goes without saying, Internet connections (any network really) by is going to operate in on demand bursts. Its more relevant when you have lots of people streaming content at the same time and I think it is becoming more of a norm for short bursts of furious activity to last for hours (6PM-10PM) as people consume more media streaming services like Stan, Netflix, YouTube, etc., and file content services like Google Drive, OneDrive, and Dropbox. That's before you even add on porn, pirating, and all the other jazz. These are very real scenarios in a house with 2 adults and 4 teenagers :)

If you look at the Internet as a single single user single user point of view you would hardly ever require a 100/40 or above connection. Tell you what though, all these super fast speeds are turning people into digital hoarders.

last edited by Twisted at 21:33:07 02/Aug/17
Psycho
Posts: 6298
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Saw an article recently of a guy that had two lines into his house, set up two broadband accounts and got them to shotgun in his router...consistently getting 190MBS download.

Hmmm, then I realised I have two lines into THIS house....hmmmm. Psycho might do something crwazy! "I feel the need, the need for speed!....."

Over here.
jmr
Posts: 8301
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

It's the backhaul that is going to be the issue, short run copper VDSL is fast as f***
WirlWind
Posts: 1858
Location: Central Coast, New South Wales

I think Wireless will be the Future.
Speeds just keep increasing.

hey what happens with my Foxtel ?
Does that come down the NBN ?



You can think all you want, wireless won't be the future for a number of reasons...

For a start, they don't just slap a dish in the ISP's yard and beam it out to everyone, they ALSO require a stable wired network.

On top of that, even if EVERYONE jumped on Wireless and somehow it worked without having a solid backbone network (spoiler: It wouldn't), the more people who use it, the slower it will get.

'Wireless is the future' is the call of the ignorant masses who don't know any better.
Hogfather
Posts: 16769
Location: Cairns, Queensland

It's the backhaul that is going to be the issue, short run copper VDSL is fast as f***

Short run VDSL on good quality copper is, yes.

These things are not always true in our FTTN network though. The best bit is that coexistence with ADSL makes many people's NBN upgrade path a downgrade for 18 months until the ADSL is retired.

How was this not anticipated?
This has been a constant source of confusion for civilians the entire time I worked in Internet-stuff; they simply don't understand that because they once downloaded at a really fast speed, they can't always download at that speed.

Again, working for an RSP this is not my experience. Consumers very often come to us with speedtest results, or at the very least understand that if we do a test against a known good source that different content providers may have different speed.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39108
Location: Other International

Again, working for an RSP this is not my experience. Consumers very often come to us with speedtest results, or at the very least understand that if we do a test against a known good source that different content providers may have different speed.
REALLY?!!! Because every time I dealt with a customer using Speedtest they had it 180 degrees the wrong way and Speedtest was only ever their rationale for why there was a problem. e.g., "Speedtest tells me I get 30Mbps [from this source that is one hop away from my modem that my ISP has thoughtfully placed there], and yet when I try to download a file [from dodgycyka.ru on the other side of the planet] I only get 25Mbps therefore your Internet is a piece of s***!"

Your customers must be way smarter :D
Twisted
Posts: 12240
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

According to NBN Co 70% of traffic is now video streaming and they expect it to jump up to around 80%. That's a lot of pr0n flying down the wire.
pARODY
Posts: 1201
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6511022382.png
notgreazy
Posts: 762
Location: Other International

http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6511022382.png

Another successful FTTP installation!

Thanks Labor!
Khel
Posts: 23850
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Heh, faster than 98% of the country
Vash
Posts: 5475
Location:

First Gigabit plans down at the gong.

https://myrepublic.net/au/gigatown-2/

Quite reasonable pricing.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39112
Location: Other International

Heh just started a Skype meeting with someone in Australia right now - their NBN Internet has been offline for a month so she's talking to me over 4G!
Twisted
Posts: 12242
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6511700153.png

FTTN rocking it out. Currently 100/40 on a 1 month free trial with Aussie Broadband...trying to get someone in to rewire my house next week to get the DL's closer to 50 down. Have had some minor tweaks done by an NBN tech who came to fix the mess the last one left me with an open loop and no Internet/phone; that at least brought the speeds up from 30Mbps to 36Mbps. Have to change my plan over to 50/20 when I remember.

Thanks Malcolm and Tony...arseholes.

What is more depressing is that I'm faster than 91% of Australians apparently....
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39114
Location: Other International

Is your connection generally stable though Twister? i.e. no unusual dropped packets, mostly online, etc?
BiKESEAT
Posts: 392
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
It is a f***ing mess.

I got connected a month or so ago.

New house in a brownfield area. Never had a telstra line. The actual process of getting NBN to put a lead in wasn't so bad, took less than a week then another 4 for the tech to come back and jumper it.

The DYBD conduit lengths put me at 550m from the Node. The actual cable length according to the tech's tool is closer to 700m. The copper was so old at one point that he jumpered to he said "i've never seen this colour coding before, they didn't teach it when i did my training 10 years ago"

I sync at 60 down 16 up. It's remarkably stable given the 20 or so joints and very old cable, i had 29 days of uptime before I pulled the connection to pull a bit more cable through more from the pit and remove a joint in their boundary box.

My house is 170m from the boundary, so i run the modem out at the gate in an enclosure with fibre back to the house. If I hadn't of done that I'd be lucky to get 30mbit.

it's better than the 18 / 0.9 adsl, but my biggest concern is going forward - 10 years ago we had a 512k adsl line and 2 devices on wifi. Now I have 70 devices over 6 buildlings, 10 access points, 7 switches, 4 wireless bridges. Hows is 60mbit going to cope with that in a few years?

If FTTC becomes an upgrade option for $2k or less i'd jump on it. FTTH from where I am would be $20k+ so never an option.

last edited by BiKESEAT at 21:24:10 04/Aug/17
BiKESEAT
Posts: 393
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Twisted you have some internal cabling issues based on your upload speed vs download.

Disconnect any extra sockets and run a single cat 6 cable from the entry point to the house to your connection point - it's not hard.
Twisted
Posts: 12243
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Is your connection generally stable though Twister? i.e. no unusual dropped packets, mostly online, etc?
Yep, rock solid. I used to get a really bad connection on ADSL a few years back. I noticed my Internet would drop out when it rained. After weeks with whining at Telstra they came out and fixed up the pit. That probably went a long way to my FTTN connection being stable. Haven't had any drop outs that I'm aware of.
Twisted you have some internal cabling issues based on your upload speed vs download.
Yeah I think so too. I'm going to try get one of the cabling guys from the Whirlpool forums to come take a look and quote me for some work. My line in is in the kitchen which is unfortunate, because that's not really where I have my stuff. I have 2 additional ports. So I want to get him to:

- Move the line in into a cupboard just below where it currently is.
- Run new cabling to the other phone ports so they work when I sell this place and someone moves in who doesn't know what a mobile is.
- Run some CAT6 through the roof to the rooms back into this little cupboard.

Something like that...we'll see. Hoping to see improvements after disconnecting the other 2 phone ports though. I'm still in the ADSL coexistence period too for at least another 16 months.
If FTTC becomes an upgrade option for $2k or less i'd jump on it. FTTH from where I am would be $20k+ so never an option.
Wouldn't be much cheaper surely? They're still going to have to run the fibre down the street right?
simul
Posts: 1667
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
So I was with NBN FTTP fibre in Brisbane, paying 100$/month and loving it.

Recently I moved to the US, so for 80$/month I get this unlimited:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/6513836825.png

Australia is going to get walked over by the rest of the world, NBN FTTP has massive upgrade potential, but FTTN is dead tech, Liberals completely messed it up by making it a political football.
Spook
Posts: 40730
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
wow.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39116
Location: Other International

"faster than 99% of the US"

That is bad ass!! But I'd say you are lucky in your choice of destination (I'm guessing Seattle so it's far less surprising that you can get great Internet there). There are many places in the US where their Internet options are worse than in Australia.

Spot on about the political football thing. The only way back from here is for them to say they were wrong, drop the CVC charges and fix the other major commercial complaints, and go back to fibre. But as they will never admit they were wrong because they are a bunch of spineless babies I think we're boned.
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18417
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I always wonder how much Murdoch whispered in specific ears to gimp the NBN
trillion
Posts: 4256
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
yeah well it is Boston simul

trillion
Posts: 4260
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
I always wonder how much Murdoch whispered in specific ears to gimp the NBN


an openly well kept secret maybe?

no surprise on the Murdochs' influence

eg https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/blog

last edited by trillion at 16:13:19 07/Aug/17
Psycho
Posts: 6300
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Twisted
Posts: 12245
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Well these are f***ing s*** house numbers from NBN...

Maximum Attainable L2 Sync Rates for FTTN (sync rates, not chosen speed plan; take a few Mbps for real world results/overheads/etc.)

Speed % of FTTN customers
12-25Mbps 6%
25-50Mbps 29%
50-75Mbps 33%
75-100Mbps 32%

That's just f***ing embarrassing. Only 1 in 3 can actually achieve between 75 and 100Mbps sync rate. I dare say they wouldn't publish those who can actually get 100Mbps because it would be very low. I'm in the 29% that get 25-50 (38Mbps sync 36Mbps maximum real world result).
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39133
Location: Other International

really, I look at that and see 80+% of people are going to get more than 25Mbps, which I think is pretty good
Spook
Posts: 40753
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
surely you jest?

25mpbs is a joke.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39135
Location: Other International

Yeh but for only 6% of the NBN-connected population it's not too shabby; I would argue that it is in fact pretty excellent.

The relevant missing facts:

- how much does it cost to get that 6% up into the next bracket? But presumably noone will ever find that out
- the difference between 25Mbps and 50Mbps is pretty striking (I am on 25Mbps ADSL here in London and in the US I was on a 50Mbps cable service, so I know pretty much exactly that of which I speak). I would be very interested to see that category broken down into further brackets because if the majority of that bracket are clustered around 25Mbps (which I suspect they probably ARE, given typical ADSL speeds) then it is a very misleading figure.

My position for the NBN has always been: the most important thing, imho, is by far that the majority of people have /some/ broadband access, not that some proportion of people have excellent broadband access.

Haha, remember the good old days when everyone said we need to have FTTH and 100mbit so we can watch HD video, and then Netflix went and f***ed it all up by delivering 4K in under 25Mbps?!
infi
Posts: 23755
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Those stuck on ADSL1 (my businesses) or 3g would just appreciate access to ADSL2. Fibre optic 100mb telstra commercial costs $800/month and I doubt many consumers would be ready to pay that.

Consumers are expecting 100mbit for $100/month from the internet fairy i.e. the idiot taxpayer.
Vash
Posts: 5478
Location:

Those stuck on ADSL1 (my businesses) or 3g would just appreciate access to ADSL2. Fibre optic 100mb telstra commercial costs $800/month and I doubt many consumers would be ready to pay that.

Consumers are expecting 100mbit for $100/month from the internet fairy i.e. the idiot taxpayer.


So wheres the privately funded internet fairy? Interestingly absent.
It's up to the taxpayer to get it done, if a competent Government were elected (ie, Labor)
infi
Posts: 23756
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

if you knew the govt was going to roll out an uncommercial subsidised monopoly service, and they were going to pay you billions of dollars not to roll out your own infrastructure, would you resist and compete? or shutup and take the mountains of free cash?
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39138
Location: Other International

So wheres the privately funded internet fairy? Interestingly absent.
it is absent because the government has been stomping around the market for years f***ing EVERYTHING up

the only rational thing for them to do is stay out of it. The NBN has been ACTIVELY stopping companies from stepping in to provide a better service, including taking them (TPG IIRC?) to court to block them from fibre deployments in some places. It's a mess.

The market cannot operate when there is a totally irrational actor in there splashing money around with no regard to price or quality of service.
Vash
Posts: 5480
Location:

That's only once the NBN was already in formation that they actively took action to stop TPG.
Ideally, if Telstra was never sold they would have been able to implement fiber far sooner. But we needed that quick cash surplus to make the LNP look like good economic managers. Nowadays they've just run out of things to sell.
There was no incentive for Telstra to replace it's copper network with fiber, there just isn't enough of a market in Australia for a return on the investment. Which is why the LNP switched over to FTTN, if even Government finds FTTP to expensive, then surely its too much for a privately owned entity.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39139
Location: Other International

That's only once the NBN was already in formation that they actively took action to stop TPG.
It doesn't matter when they did it - it matters that they're stomping around interfering with the operation of the market.
Ideally, if Telstra was never sold they would have been able to implement fiber far sooner.
Yes, privatising Telstra was the first step into this being totally broken.

I was an partial advocate of privatising Telstra at the time because I thought the competition was the only way things were going to improve. But now I wish it had never been sold and they had simply been required to plunge their profits into network upgrades because I think Australia would have been much better off as a whole. They still effectively dictate conditions for the majority of Australians but all of the benefits now go to shareholders instead of citizens.
Khel
Posts: 23864
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Fibre optic 100mb telstra commercial costs $800/month and I doubt many consumers would be ready to pay that.


Because its often a custom install, for the benefit of a single paying customer, of course its going to cost more. Roll it out to entire streets/suburbs/cities and you have many, many, many more paying customers to offset the cost, you don't need to charge $800 a month then. Economy of scale and all that jazz
paveway
Posts: 21328
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
They still effectively dictate conditions for the majority of Australians but all of the benefits now go to shareholders instead of citizens.


Absolutely, i don't think there has been any real benefit to privatising telstra except for the quick hit of cash to the government
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39141
Location: Other International

I have been thinking heavily about privatisation recently, mostly in the context of electricity providers (we had to renew our plan recently so it has been in my brain), but this problem was obvious for Telstra as well.

The biggest issue is that in many cases there is a shared resources that is basically being split off and distributed amongst a variety of different providers. The idea is that competition among these providers will lead to lower costs and better service for subscribers.

But what is (often? sometimes?) ignored is the fact that for these new entities to compete, a certain amount of money needs to be diverted to normal competitive costs - marketing, sales, etc. Anyone that has been exposed to any of these large companies knows how much time, effort and money is spent on their marketing efforts.

This works fine in the free market where companies have always been responsible for creating their own products, maintaining them, upgrading them, etc. It is a completely normal part of doing business. But I don't think it works well when the "product" is something like infrastructure.

So my new hypothesis is that, for privatisation to be worth it, the VALUE created by that competition has to clearly and unequivocally exceed the COST of that competition existing. And I think it's super hard (if not totally impossible) to take that into account at sale time because at the time the market doesn't exist and noone knows what the cost of competition will be, except that it will basically definitely go up.

This might not be a particularly insightful observation; this kind of analysis is almost certainly done all the time in privatisation movements and I bet it shows that well DUH obviously the taxpayers are going to better off because of X Y Z. But there's only going to be a more or less fixed pool of revenue that suddenly many entities are scrabbling over - the competition is going to soak up a lot of value. And the first thing (at least in telcos) that seems to take a hit is network upgrades & maintenance.

Sadly not much can be done about it without completely wrecking the market even worse; the lesson here is to be extremely wary of privatising industry for short term benefit
hardware
Posts: 11664
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
You're absolutely right trog, and add onto that now these firms want to make a profit too.

Essentially if you're going from administration by a publicly controlled entity to being done by multiple private entities, you'd have to really be convinced the public entity was so incredibly, almost unbelievably inefficient and almost impossibly wasteful to think that a private corporation, who wants to turn a profit either for themselves or for shareholders, is going to be cheaper for the consumer.

Yeah nah. Maybe the old shorts-and-long-socks public service might have once been that inefficient in some areas, but even anna 1.0 was putting the screws on even before candy newman came in and ensured that there wasn't enough staff for even the core work to take place. Seriously, a dangerous amount of facets of public services are running off the good work done by staff prior to all the sackings in 2012-2013 or whenever it was.
Vash
Posts: 5482
Location:

I agree trog, i've thought that for quite some time, privatising vital infrastructure is a path to high prices & monopoly.
Toll roads as an example, where there is simply no competition viable, unless you build multiple roads on top of each other and they compete with each other for who uses their road to get to the same location.
Much the same for the copper, fiber & electricity networks.

Leave the private markets competing with each other for product, not services infrastructure.
infi
Posts: 23757
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

So we should have a government monopoly 4g network?
Vash
Posts: 5483
Location:

So we should have a government monopoly 4g network?


Absolutely. Prices will be driven down, and more of the band would be available to everyone as one big network instead of tendered off to a few big players.
Twisted
Posts: 12253
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Well, a few hundred $'s later and re-cabling of my phone line and my Internet speeds have increased from 38Mbps sync speed to 60Mbps sync speed. f***ing coalition...that'll be the best case scenario I'll ever be able to achieve at this house though. There was a lot of corrosion on the line into the house which the guy cut away which seemed to help a lot.
BladeRunner
Posts: 2772
Location: Queensland

Glad to hear your interboobs is working better, Twisted.

I checked last week on the NBN site with my address and apparently I will get FTTC. The estate I'm living in is 7 years old so I imagine that has something to do with it.

I was talking to my old man on the phone the other day and he was whining about the electricity prices and said to me, If I ever become a politician, never sell any assets. Perhaps we can nationalise Telsta but I imagine that would be a huge dirty mess with lots of piss and vinegar.
Nmag
Posts: 838
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

If the greens were running the country this wound't happen. We'd be sitting in darkness, weaving baskets under the moon light.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39176
Location: Other International

If the greens were running the country this wound't happen. We'd be sitting in darkness, weaving baskets under the moon light.
The Greens were strong proponents of Labor's original FTTH vision

Nice attempt to deflect the conversation politically onto a party that literally could not have anything less to do with the current set of problems though. Maybe you should sign up to Twitter
Twisted
Posts: 12254
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Maybe you should sign up to Twitter
Fark that! He's probably got what it takes to be the next big thing on radio. Forget the facts, just put a microphone in front of him yesterday!
notgreazy
Posts: 801
Location: Other International


If the greens were running the country this wound't happen. We'd be sitting in darkness, weaving baskets under the moon light.

f*** off but before that go read their policies instead of being a tard:
https://greens.org.au/policy
https://greens.org.au/sites/greens.org.au/files/20160617_Greens_NBN.pdf
Zenmaster
Posts: 30
Location: Queensland
sometimes, when my wife is asleep early I put QGL.org into my Chrome on my iPad and ask my young children (who really, really need to go to bed) to read out the responses to threads like these, while pretending that I'm Deadpool.


It's fun in a way with most of them ( and blah blah blah you don't care ) something something.


I'm only saying this as there is someone at work who never misses an AG entry on subjects like these and we need to know where she is right.... now ;)


thank you for your time gentlemen - please... as you were
Khel
Posts: 23903
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

What?
Twisted
Posts: 12259
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I think he's saying he's deliberately exposing his kids to Internet trolls.
Nmag
Posts: 839
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

* N U K E D *

Reason: stupid offtopic bulls***
Click Here to See the Profile for Nmag Edit This Post Click Here to send Nmag an email Users HomePage Message User
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18445
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Australian Sex Party. Join it.
Psycho
Posts: 6307
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Maximum Attainable L2 Sync Rates for FTTN (sync rates, not chosen speed plan; take a few Mbps for real world results/overheads/etc.) Speed % of FTTN customers 12-25Mbps 6% 25-50Mbps 29% 50-75Mbps 33% 75-100Mbps 32% That's just f***ing embarrassing. Only 1 in 3 can actually achieve between 75 and 100Mbps sync rate. I dare say they wouldn't publish those who can actually get 100Mbps because it would be very low. I'm in the 29% that get 25-50 (38Mbps sync 36Mbps maximum real world result).


I must be one of the lucky ones. Consistently getting 90-100 down and 35-40 up. It did dip to the mid 70's one night, but only for like 40 minutes and away it went again. Love watching files that used to takes hours to download on Steam take minutes. :) Haven't had a drop out once since joining with Aussiebroadband, very happy with them indeed.
system
--
Not a new post since your last visit.
New Post Since your last visit
Back To Forum
Advertise with Us | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
© Copyright 2001-2017 AusGamers Pty Ltd. ACN 093 772 242.
Hosted by Mammoth Networks - Australian VPS Hosting
Web development by Mammoth Media.