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Topic: What is going on with Cryptocurrency?
Alize`
Posts: 1924
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

So I'm sure everyone who reads these forums have spent enough time on the internet to see the hype around the rise of bitcoin price. Now there are so many other alt coins available as well and a lot of my friends are throwing a lot of money around on things like Ripple, Zcash, Lite Coin etc.

I haven't really been keeping up with the whole thing but I've recently just signed up and bought some lite coin purely so I can be part of crypto coin conversations and not 'miss the bus' so to speak.

I just wanted to see what your thoughts are...

Is anyone here putting some serious cash into cryptocurrency?
Have you got any tips?
Has anyone had a go at mining?
system
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trillion
Posts: 4214
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
i have a mining machine that doesn't currently have any GPUs other than one GTX970 processing away at a very low hashrate. it mines about $45/month currently and is rewarded at a rate of around 0.72/mBTC/day or depending on the market value about 2.50AUD/day

i have the pci-e riser cables and everything mostly ready for plugging in 6 GPUs, just haven't made a decision on noise and power yet...

the ideal setup is to have the maximum number of GPUs mining a coin that is rising in value, so a script will monitor the available pools value and chose which one has the best hashrate/value return and continue on it until there is a change. it becomes more worthwhile with more GPUs and patricularly AMD GPUs which have better processing rates than Nvidias per price of the hardware, and compared to ASICs where some stratum servers will block giving parts of the blockchain to them to process

the difficulty is in getting a value back into fiat usable currency, especially in Australia with whatever bank account you can currently open. if you have a European or US bank account you can easily exchange altcoin for those currencies and Bitcoin is easily spent on Steam or accepted by other places who trade in BTC & fiat. it's not so straight forward to go straight into AUD though

last edited by trillion at 12:26:20 19/Jun/17
E.T.
Posts: 5112
Location: Queensland

I won't pretend to understand everything you wrote there Trillion but I do have a question. Why are GPU's used to process this stuff and not CPU's?
fpot
Posts: 25891
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

things like Ripple
Did teq make his own cryptocurrency?
trillion
Posts: 4215
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
GPU's are designed to process longer form data to a certain consistency. so say you're GPU is processing a bunch of polygons, textures, and physics effects from the pipeline of a game engine, how much memory and the type of GPU it is will effect the output framerate and fancy graphics things you will get out of it

Cryptocurrency block chain data is more or less the same idea, instead of the graphical output measured in FPS the result is a hashrate that the block data was processed in something like a GH/s

there's a bit of an outdated explaination here which you can read and piece together how AMD hardware is better at processing than Nvidias' and how the blockchain processing rate get's harder over time, why GPU mining isnt considered profitable any more (Bitcoin at least, other altcoins it is obviously still useful for) and a few other things

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU
infi
Posts: 23716
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

cryptocurrency is a storage of wealth like fiat currency, gold, shares, real estate or other commodities.

currency has no inherent value so its stability is premised on confidence. in the case of the US dollar it is stabilised by the biggest army in the world. major trading currencies are stable because their countries are governed by rule of law and transparency.

my personal concern with cryptcurrency is that it is not backed by a national government and a rule of law. i suspect it would be nigh impossible to sue or enforce a contract premised on cryptocurrency. furthermore because cryptocurrency intentionally shuns national governments, governments will not legitimise them. thus cryptocurrency will tend to be used for black market transactions.

ultimately governments will have to make a trade off if they want to get a piece of the taxation action. however the very nature of cryuptocurrency means that if a person chooses to remain anonymous they can do so.

given the complexity of how cryptocurrency is created and transferred, users have to have faith in the algorithm. as i understand it, cryptrocurrency is premised on a limited supply of coins. if there ever turned out to be a backdoor to the creation of new coins then the whole currency would unravel. (compared to national governments which create new currency through inflation and fractional banking in a (relatively) transparent manner and thus everyone can continue to evaluate how much inflation is devaluing the currency).

i note recent news articles where cryptocurrency prices have taken off, suggesting that this is due to the chinese using it as a means to smuggle wealth out of China. this is a simple case of demand for the coins outstripping supply. so it may work to use it as a means of speculative investment.

i can't see how crypto currency will be able to become a means of facilitating large commercial or investment treansactions anytime soon. (don't put your super in it.)
trillion
Posts: 4216
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
infi i think a lot of the concerns about anonymity and transparency are mainly directed towards the Bitcoin block chain. afaik with the Ethereum block chain and the ERC-20 standard a lot of product based ventures are making use of this in their ICO or initial coin offerings

some examples are Brave and the basic attention token https://brave.com

Metamask which does a bunch of things better than Bitcoin https://metamask.io

and Ant which as you mentioned is the cryptocurrency being taken up in China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_Financial_Services_Group

and a bunch of others tracked here https://icostats.com


as for trading altcoins and speculating why the prices are fluctuating like they are, watch this guy for some insights

Hogfather
Posts: 16752
Location: Cairns, Queensland

i suspect it would be nigh impossible to sue or enforce a contract premised on cryptocurrency. furthermore because cryptocurrency intentionally shuns national governments, governments will not legitimise them.

The ATO has defined cryptocurrency as a form of bartering.

GST is payable on a supply of bitcoin by you in the course or furtherance of your exchange service enterprise. Input tax credits are available for bitcoin acquired if the supply of bitcoin to you is a taxable supply.


Its not significantly different to agreeing to be paid for a transaction in gold, guns, or sheep. s*** is legal and taxed.
infi
Posts: 23717
Location: Brisbane, Queensland



Its not significantly different to agreeing to be paid for a transaction in gold, guns, or sheep. s*** is legal and taxed.


I wouldn't want to be litigating that case.
Hogfather
Posts: 16753
Location: Cairns, Queensland

Why would you? I thought you were an old person's home slumlord, not a lawyer?
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39015
Location: USA

Just remember, by the time civilians have heard about it, the gold rush is probably over. I love the tech behind cryptocurrency but when normal people are buying in to speculate it might be too late to make money. I still have an old wallet lying around on an old PC with some coins in it that I think I have since lost the details for :( Sure wish I'd kept mining back in the old days.
Spook
Posts: 40626
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
i used to buy btc when they were worth less than $10 aussie dollars.

unfortunately for me, i spent them not long after buying.

have also lost hundreds of dollars through btc exchanges disappearing with my money (and markets too).

who would have thought they'd be worth what they are now!

i could have been rich :(

it mines about $45/month currently


woudlnt you be burning through more electricity than that to mine?

pretty impressive seeing the big chinese mines, makes you not want to compete.
trillion
Posts: 4217
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
i did something similar to that trog

in 2011 or 2012 i was given an GTX680 and i synced a Bitcoin wallet, mined with it for maybe 6 weeks and it was upto about 0.2 BTC ... forgot about it and didn't save it to a vault or elsewhere, this was before the Mt Gox exchange went bad, i either had an account and wallet there, like on Coinbase now, or a lot of the information i was reading up on the Bitcoin thing led to there or made references to there.

there was an episode of the Hamish & Andy show not too long ago where they had callers call in and guess the password to a forgotten Bitcoin wallet with something like 2 BTC in it, guess the password and split the value of the coins in the wallet. It was funny, and kind of sad remembering mine being out there with reference to in the block chain but being anonymous and having probably soft forked the protocol in the mean time, lost forever


Spook the solar meter is up to 9698KW/h and it's been averaging lower than normal this winter. I haven't checked it recently during the day and i don't keep a log of it into a grapher anymore but it's probably around 8-12KW/h a day. the Nvidia card uses about 170W so to KW/h is = W × hr / 1000 so 170 x 24 / 1000 = 4.08KW/h... still outputting around 4-10KW/h a day after

it's probably not the best use of the spare electricity after hot water heating and all the rest of it, and i'm not sure if the rebate or feedin tariff is supplemented on the bill. will have to check it
Viper119
Posts: 3284
Location: Other International

Yeah I can remember thinking about buying a bunch of bitcoin a year or so ago when it was about £150 per coin, now it's £2K! Defo missed that boat :(

I imagine the real short-term profit gains are behind us, though perhaps not, it might jump higher, it's definitely got huge room to grow still. I'd treat it as a high risk and relatively short term investment myself. Then you can pick out the high performers and try to do some super quick returns. Although I'd probably lean towards investing in one thats getting legit backing from large coalitions, organisations, countries or banks, as those will be the ones that survive no doubt. And I'm not really a short term investor type.

I was thinking the other day I might do some relatively small investments in bitcoin or ethereum.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39020
Location: USA

have also lost hundreds of dollars through btc exchanges disappearing with my money (and markets too).
there was at least one story about a wallet application that built up a good reputation to get users, and then the developer apparently rigged it to intercept all coins passed through it and redirected to his wallet. There are going to be some grade-A scams out there so pick a reputable-as-f*** middleman if you must use one at all.
Spook
Posts: 40627
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
absolutely.

ppl have made a fortune stealing others btc.
Alize`
Posts: 1925
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I've bought approx. $600 worth of coins. I'd say I diversified over different alt coins but they all seem pretty linked to bitcoin and how it's going anyway. It's becoming more of a hobby.

I recently bought a little workstation to run some dev VMs on and it has a Ryzen 1700 CPU and RX 550 ATI GPU. I thought I'd sample some mining just out of curiosity. It performed pretty badly. GPU was making $2.00USD a day and the CPU about 0.80USD so not really worth it.

At the moment I'm trying to find the best private key wallet solution for Ripple, NXT, Stratis, SiaCoin and LiteCoin. I don't really want to keep the coins in coinspot or coinbase. Anyone have any suggestions on wallets?
trillion
Posts: 4218
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
maybe look into Jaxx
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39024
Location: USA

Coinbase seems to have a high reputation in the community so it seems "safe" as much as any third party can be. If I was into it though I would only ever run an open source wallet on my own PC.
trillion
Posts: 4219
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
im not this into it (only have a few hundred $$$ in crypto to ride the the value while it lasts up and to the right) but Electrum has a no-sync wallet which can pair with hardware like Ledger for uber security. i would have thought the Ledger Blue coming later in the year would have contact payments with NFC or something but it doesn't seem to
Spook
Posts: 40632
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
i have my own wallet now and my btc spend minimal time away from it.
Lithium
Posts: 488
Location: Rockhampton, Queensland
I mine Z cash as per the instructions here https://zec.suprnova.cc/
Not really sure on the $ per hour, but so far it reckons I have $60+ USD in 2 weeks of on and off mining using a 1080ti and 980ti in the spare machine.

The cost of electricty probably outweighs the money earned and Im yet to read about how to actually trade it for USD.

Spook
Posts: 40634
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
go to an exchange, setup an account and sell it!

https://bter.com/trade/zec_btc
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39030
Location: USA

I'd hold on to Zcash. The team behind it seem to know their s***. I think it is one of the few that has potential to go up solidly from where it is now.
trillion
Posts: 4220
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
there are a few places that claim to be Australian based Bitcoin exchanges. All they do is take your deposit, make you a wallet address with your transaction in BTC, and an invoice. There's no withdrawing or exchanging back into AUD. The nearest product or service I've seen to that is one where you can receive a branded Visa debit card with the value converted into I would assume AUD which can then be used anywhere it's accepted, which is a lot of places

I was thinking it might have something to do with banks protecting their product integration of services like Apple Pay or Google Pay where the fin tech products take a long time to integrate with banks alongside their existing stuff. Maybe it's because they can't charge transaction fee's on a block chain verified system like cryptocurrencies have built in. I guess they want to stay with the fiat currency hood as much as possible, maybe it's just banks in Australia and the way they're controlled from U.K. interests

Either way the point is that once you buy any cryptocurrency with fiat currency it's difficult to get that value back into the fiat currency you spent to get into the value proposition to begin with, unless the goods and services are available to be trade in BTC
Spook
Posts: 40637
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
i dont know about other products, most of the exchanges ive dealt with in Aus for bitcoins are happy to sell and transfer to bank accounts.

admittedly ive never done it, but i would imagine there would be an outcry if you coudlnt convert back to AUD.
notgreazy
Posts: 730
Location: Other International

Completely new to this. I remember when BT become somewhat popular. i tried mining it when it was in the single digits but never worked it out. Now i'm kicking myself!

Oh well.

Anyone mining Zcash on windows? Got a thirdparty app and it seems to be doing something.... Do you just let it run in the background? Does the mining process use a lot of internets?
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39034
Location: USA

Anyone mining Zcash on windows? Got a thirdparty app and it seems to be doing something.... Do you just let it run in the background? Does the mining process use a lot of internets?
I mined a bit on day 0 for Zcash but gave up quickly because I don't have the patience. I'd be very very wary of third party apps. I think there is an official Windows build but can't remember.

Yep just run it in the background; it shouldn't use a lot of Internet at all. It might be better to run in Linux (in a VM) as I think the official build is maintained well in Linux.
trillion
Posts: 4221
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
if you mean NiceHash by third party app then it works fine for downloading and running whichever coin type miner it benchmarks as the best on your hardware. all you really need to do with it is set a Bitcoin wallet address that's yours in the right box and when the pool payout happens it will deposit the value as mBTC into that wallet address. You can setup a Coinbase wallet or use one that you get if you setup an account on the NiceHash website. if you use my coinbase link after you buy or sell $100USD we both get $10 of free bitcoin deposited into the wallet. Nicehash take a bit of a fee if you get it sent to an outside wallet address. It will take about 1 month of mining with NiceHash before you get a payout.

Fee for all nicehash-wallet mining payments (regardless of size) is 2%.
Fee for payments with unpaid balances, greater than 0.1 BTC to external-wallet is 3%.
Fee for payments with unpaid balances, greater than 0.01 BTC to external-wallet is 4%.


Vash
Posts: 5395
Location:

I just checked an old wallet and found 0.06btc which was worth nothing last i checked it. Now it's worth $200. Sweet.
Phooks
Posts: 3109
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

ETH is the only one going anywhere for now, big companies supporting it and smart contracts are the future (i.e.; infis post). IMHO blockchain is still too risky though, it's a gamble.

Also the ethical concerns regarding what most people actually use it as currency for
Phooks
Posts: 3110
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

If i had the appetite, I would tip Ripple (XRP)
trillion
Posts: 4222
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
https://medium.com/startup-grind/i-was-wrong-about-ethereum-804c9a906d36
notgreazy
Posts: 733
Location: Other International

I mined a bit on day 0 for Zcash but gave up quickly because I don't have the patience. I'd be very very wary of third party apps. I think there is an official Windows build but can't remember.

Yep just run it in the background; it shouldn't use a lot of Internet at all. It might be better to run in Linux (in a VM) as I think the official build is maintained well in Linux.

So I figured out the wallet software is separate from the mining tools. The wallet is "official" thirdparty zcash wallet... confusing.

Anyway, I need linux.
system
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