I'm looking to update my home PC soon from my awesome Windows XP rig (which I've been running happily since 2006 with a couple upgrades) - unfortunately I know nothing about PC hardware any more so was just going to pick one of the suggested gaming rigs from the WP page: http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/rmp_sg_whirlpoolpcs_gaming_configs_1

I was looking at the "Intel Gaming/Multi-Purpose Config" one, though with some minor changes:

CPU: Intel Core i5 3470 $189 -- probably get the slightly faster variant of this
Mobo: Asrock B75 Pro3-M $70 -- no idea if this is any good
RAM: G.Skill Ares 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600 $45
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB (ST2000DM001) $99 -- swap this out for a ~256GB SSD - was probably going to get a Crucial based on parabol's recommedations
GPU: Galaxy 2GB Nvidia Geforce GTX660 GC $249 -- I have a GTX460 - I assume I'll need to upgrade it to get the most out of the i5?
Case&PSU: Thermaltake V4 Black Edition w/ USB3 and 500W Litepower PSU $75 -- no idea about case
ODD: DVD burner $19

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I am just using this for webstuff and the occasional game (mostly StarCraft 2 these days).

The PSU might just be teetering on the edge of being a bit small for that rig. It will probably get by OK but you won't have any room for expansion. It's not so bad now but system instability because your PSU wasn't up to the task was the worst thing ever. Modular PSU's have made life so much easier...

Otherwise if you're going to go the i5 3570, consider the K model which you can OC. If you're going to leave it at stock then just stick with the standard model.

The mobo is pretty bare bones (not a bad thing) and it covers all bases. Not much room for expansion but should be OK.

Consider having the seagate for games, downloads etc and have a 128gb crucial for the system drive?

Edit: Go the 660 GPU. You'll be so much better off with it.

The PSU might just be teetering on the edge of being a bit small for that rig. It will probably get by OK but you won't have any room for expansion.

I won't really be bothering to expand it I think so as long as it can run the stuff here (plus one other internal drive that I'll probably migrate over from my current box) that'd be fine...

Otherwise if you're going to go the i5 3570, consider the K model which you can OC. If you're going to leave it at stock then just stick with the standard model.

OK ta. Not interested in overclocking.

Consider having the seagate for games and have a 128gb crucial for the system drive?

Yeh I've got all my games on an existing HDD which I'll just be dropping in the new box.

I can't figure out which MB to get (looking at Umart) - there's so many options!@#

Go the SSD then if you're dropping a drive in for games.

The mobo you picked is fine. I think it's one area where people really get ripped off (see Fatal1ty boards etc) because you really aren't getting more performance for your (considerably more) dollars.

Go the SSD then if you're dropping a drive in for games.The mobo you picked is fine. I think it's one area where people really get ripped off (see Fatal1ty boards etc) because you really aren't getting more performance for your (considerably more) dollars.

+1

After getting an SSD for my OS drive, I can't imagine using a regular hard drive ever again.

CPU looks good, though I would recommend at least 650W + for the PSU and an Intel SSD 520s. You can keep the 460 GPU if you want, unless you want maximum performance in any upcoming game like Crysis or something but otherwise it should do fine.

I'd suggest the ASRock Z77 Extreme 6, what I'm running at the moment with an i7 3770k and its flawless. All USB 3 and plenty of them.

+1 for ASRock Z77 Extreme 6

I'm a fan of the modular PSU's as well, they're a little extra but it helps keep your power cabling clean.

Re the CPU, the i5 3570 is only an extra $20, if it were me, I'd go for that. Regarding the K version, yes it allows you to overclock but for me, there's no interest, the reason I'd go for the K version over the standard is it has the Intel 4000 series graphics built into it which is half decent for gaming, video decoding etc. I think you need a Z77 chipset board though it you were to make full use of that (someone correct me if I'm wrong here). But if you're getting a GTX660 anyway, none of the above matters so much. Not sure about the Galaxy brand though, my latest card was EVGA and that's been running well.

I went with the standard i5 3570 because it has vt-d enabled which allows me to do a bare metal vsphere build.

I've not had an ASRock board before but they seem to pretty popular these days, I'd probably still go with something running the Z77 chipset, the Z77 version of the board you're looking at is only an extra $30. ASRock Z77 PRO4-M. Might be worth looking up some reviews though before buying.

Re SSD's, the Crucial will do well, alternatively there's the Intel 520 series but they are a bit more expensive. Size all depends how much you want to spend.

If it were me I would get a mobo with RAID and two of those Seagate drives for mirroring. I think it is very foolish not to do that when you buy a new PC as you can't beat instantaneous and complete backup. I don't trust SSDs yet because of all the reports of them breaking. If you insist on getting an SSD definitely get two and RAID them for when one breaks.

I would also get an ATI card, not an nVidia. If you want to play older games you will need GPU scaling which works fine with the ATI drivers but is completely broken in nVidia's.

Also make sure you get Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate. I learned the hard way when I bought the Home edition that it doesn't support Microsoft's XP emulation software, which you will also need for old games.

Completely recommend making sure you get a 240GB SSD.

That is all from me :)

The PSU will be fine. I have a very similar setup, different mobo and that but a Gigabyte 660 O/Ced and the next cpu up and a 500watt PSU. Doesn't miss a beat on anything.

Just make sure it has a good rating then it will actually produce the right levels. It's the cheap ones that say 800watt and that is their peak and only really do 250watt consistently or something =)

If it were me I would get a mobo with RAID and two of those Seagate drives for mirroring. I think it is very foolish not to do that when you buy a new PC as you can't beat instantaneous and complete backup. I don't trust SSDs yet because of all the reports of them breaking. If you insist on getting an SSD definitely get two and RAID them for when one breaks.

There is no reason to get 2 SSD's, normal HDD's fail and everyone should be backing up their super precious files anyway. There is no point in having a modern PC if you don't have an SSD.

You might want to check out the Samsung drives, they are cheaper than Intel/Crucial and still meant to be reliable.

Sorry to derail, but ...

If it were me I would get a mobo with RAID and two of those Seagate drives for mirroring. I think it is very foolish not to do that when you buy a new PC as you can't beat instantaneous and complete backup

Terrible advice, given how bad motherboard RAID controllers are.
Repeat after me: RAID is not a backup solution.

* Delete a file by accident? Oops, the deletion is mirrored on your backup drive and your file is still gone.
* Power loss / unclean shutdown? 1-5 hour mandatory verify/rebuild that can't be interrupted
* Filesystem corruption? That's mirrored.
* Got a virus? That's mirrored too.
* PSU goes pop? Both your drives are connected to it and could go too!

A better solution is to get backup software like Macrium and set up scheduled incremental backups to a drive of similar size. Usually takes less than 5 mins and doesn't get in the way. Rotate drives if you want to avoid PSU failures affecting the backup.

* Hard-drive dies? No worries, boot off the recovery DVD and restore from backup - up and running in the time it takes to copy the image.
* Accidentally deleted a file? No worries, browse any of the snapshots over the last few days and access old/deleted files/folders.
* Virus or filesystem problems? Restore to an older snapshot and propagate your clean data files from a newer snapshot.

These days I don't worry about data loss or accidental deletion as I know there's a very recent uncorrupted backup at my fingertips. You won't believe how much of a relief that feeling is.

You might want to check out the Samsung drives, they are cheaper than Intel/Crucial and still meant to be reliable.

I'm probably going to try out the Samsung on my next build. High number of glowing user reviews from multiple sources, which is amazing for the price ($209 for Samsung 830 256GB, compared to $235 for Crucial and $259 for Intel). Plus it's Truecrypt/Bitlocker friendly, unlike Sandforce (Intel, Corsair, OCZ, etc) drives.

last edited by parabol at 13:48:51 20/Oct/12

Asrock Z77-EXTREME4 Z77/4 x DDR3/2 x PCI-E3.0/4 x SATA3/6 x USB3.0/HDMI/D [5] -- is that a decent Z77-based one ($135 from Umart)?

Yeh not interested in RAID; I have a good backup routine so not worried about data loss.

I'm probably going to try out the Samsung on my next build. High number of glowing user reviews from multiple sources, which is amazing for the price ($209 for Samsung 830 256GB, compared to $235 for Crucial and $259 for Intel). Plus it's Truecrypt/Bitlocker friendly, unlike Sandforce (Intel, Corsair, OCZ, etc) drives.

Was tempted to try Samsung but not really interested in full disk encryption (sensitive stuff I encrypt w/ PGP or AES anyway).

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

Didn't know that about the mandatory rebuild parabol. But on the other hand, how long do scheduled backups take?

When using a backup drive how would you get around the PSU killing them both? External HDD? Wouldn't there still be a chance of it killing that too?

Accidental deletion and virii don't really worry me. The chance of corruption is minor in my experience.

last edited by dais at 14:43:46 20/Oct/12

If you are willing to spend a bit more and the motherboard you select supports it I'd get a Intel Quad Core Xeon CPU E3-1230v2, LGA1155, 3.3GHz 8MB CACHE, 8 Threads, TurboBoost, over the i5, f***s off the useless integrated graphics.

Didn't know that about the mandatory rebuild parabol. But on the other hand, how long do scheduled backups take?

Assuming I create a Full baseline backup once a month, on average the daily incrementals take:

* Work laptop (256GB SSD) with frequent changing of files/projects :: 2-5 mins
* Home PC drives :: OS SSD: <5mins, 1TB Games/Media: 1-2 mins, 2TB Storage: 30s if no change, up to 5 mins if change.

You can fully use your PC during during the backup, though maybe not while FPS gaming if you're backing up a mechanical gaming drive. I have schedules set up for staggered backups at 2,3,4am, etc.

When using a backup drive how would you get around the PSU killing them both?

External is definitely a good step, given you can buy a USB3 1TB drive for fairly cheap. Alternatively, rotating SATA drives with a SATA hotswap bay works well too - I have a drive sitting at work in case something goes seriously wrong in my room at home :) I bring it into and out of rotation every few weeks by simply removing/replacing what's in the hotswap bay - fully automated otherwise, no need to run the software manually.

last edited by parabol at 15:04:51 20/Oct/12

For me once a month would not be any where near enough, which is why I prefer the instantaneous nature of RAID.

But the hot swap bay does sound like a good idea. I might use that too and have both!

imo After having SSDs die so frequently (2 OCZ 1 Kingston) and them be annoyingly small ... But SSDs perform so well ...

Go a cache drive (like a Synapse). Best of both worlds, great performance, but nice big drives.

As an added bonus an SSD cache drive warns you if you HDD is looking unwell.

It does limit you to a 2TB boot drive. Still better than any SSD for size.

Considering QGL is a gaming Forum maybe you guys should have like a best builds for price sticky thread.
under $1000 above $1000 and best possible build ?

Trog that will be a fine motherboard, just a generation below mine.

For me once a month would not be any where near enough, which is why I prefer the instantaneous nature of RAID.

Heh. He's not talking about a once a month backup solution, he's talking about daily incremental backups with a full backup baseline taken every month.

Your RAID mirroring is not a backup, and the fact that you misunderstood his post makes me wonder if you really know what backing up is?

Oh I just misread it. Distracted by Arkham Asylum today.

Let me explain further:

I am doing occasional web design stuff but the main thing I'm concerned about is some writing I'm doing. If I'm writing pages of stuff each day then once a day is not enough, I want immediate redundancy. Which is why I prefer RAID.

Also as far as the backing up goes, I suppose an external HDD would be fine if you don't leave it connected all the time.

last edited by dais at 16:35:32 20/Oct/12

(As trog seems to have all the info he needs, let the derailing begin)

For dais (was about to send as PM but others may as well read it):

There are three types of backups:

* Full: starts a backup from scratch. It will spit out a large file. This can be equal in size or much smaller than the partition you're backing up, depending on if you have compression enabled in your backup software or not.

* Incremental: requires a Full backup "chain" to link to. That can be an earlier Incremental, Differential or a Full backup. It will check for any changes since the last backup and produce an output file with only those changes. Very fast in comparison to Full as it doesn't have to copy everything.

* Differential: will get to that in a sec.

So say you just did a Full backup on Sunday, and then Incrementals each business day for 4 days:

Backup #0: Sun - Full (150GB output file)
Backup #1: Mon - Incremental (500MB output file), linked to #0
Backup #2: Tue - Incremental (900MB output file), linked to #1
Backup #3: Wed - Incremental (700MB output file), linked to #2
Backup #4: Thu - Incremental (800MB output file), linked to #3

If you want to rewind back to Wednesday (#3), the software will automatically start with the Full backup #0, then merge/apply #1 and then #2 and then #3 prior to restoring - which is identical to if you just did a large Full backup on the Wednesday. Good software like Macrium also lets you map any backup file to a drive letter, so that you can access any backup snapshot normally in Explorer. If you open up an Incremental this way, you see the merged #0, #1, #2, #3 snapshot of the drive as of that date (not just the differences!).

Now back to Differential: it's equivalent to an Incremental but ignores previous Incrementals, linking straight to the last Full backup found. e.g:

Backup #0: Sun - Full (150GB output file)
Backup #1: Mon - Incremental (500MB output file), linked to #0
Backup #2: Tue - Incremental (900MB output file), linked to #1
Backup #3: Wed - Incremental (700MB output file), linked to #2
Backup #4: Thu - Incremental (800MB output file), linked to #3
Backup #5: Fri - Differential (2GB file), linked to #0

The software is usually smart enough to link to the correct base backup - fully automated. I don't actually run Macrium manually except to check logs once a week. Not above that the Differential isn't necessarily as big as the combination of #1,2,3 as some of those changes may have canceled out (e.g. big file added at #1 but deleted at #2).

Some extra info with screenshots:

http://kb.macrium.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50075.aspx

(Also the great thing about Macrium and similar software is that the partition backups take into account the FAT and bootsector, so they keep Windows completely intact and bootable upon Restore).

last edited by parabol at 16:38:51 20/Oct/12

thanks parabol

I reckon RAID with an external backup as well is the way to go. Getting a bit exy but you can't put a price on my data!

I reckon RAID with an external backup as well is the way to go. Getting a bit exy but you can't put a price on my data!

Given that you're concerned about your writing files as the highest priority, I'd be freaking out about a mirrored RAID array as the sole protection!

An incremental backup solution (like I assume parabol is talking about) should also give you a file version history which I reckon would be really, really important.

I'm more inclined to keep many revisions of my writing than to rely on a backup for that.

SSDs are cool but I will be sticking with good old reliable mechanical drives for a while longer. As if you can't wait a few extra seconds for a game to load.

I bought a copy of win7 ultimate from here. http://www.cheapkeysale.com/windows-7-ultimate-product-key-p-19.html
Activated fine, no issues.

A nVidia 660 or 670 would be good for a video card. Check around for reviews.

With the money you save on not getting a SSD, you can buy an after market CPU cooler if you want. Its not essential but will help a bit on warm days. Unless you are lucky enough to have/afford air-con.

SSDs are cool but I will be sticking with good old reliable mechanical drives for a while longer. As if you can't wait a few extra seconds for a game to load.

Have you actually used an SSD? I find it hard to believe anyone who has would recommend not getting one.

It's not just about games. Your overall interaction with the PC is vastly improved. Everything loads fast, programs don't stall while waiting for the disk to thrash, searching/booting/shutdown is extremely fast.

With the money you save on not getting a SSD, you can buy an after market CPU cooler if you want

An SSD would be a more noticeable upgrade than the most aggressive CPU overclock.

I bought a copy of win7 ultimate from here. http://www.cheapkeysale.com/windows-7-ultimate-product-key-p-19.html

Why buy a key if you need to pirate the installation files/ISO/disc to use it? As far as I'm aware you're legally not meant to use an illegal installation source if you want to be fully legit.

last edited by parabol at 17:12:52 20/Oct/12

I'm looking to update my home PC soon from my awesome Windows XP rig (which I've been running happily since 2006 with a couple upgrades) - unfortunately I know nothing about PC hardware any more so was just going to pick one of the suggested gaming rigs from the WP page: http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/rmp_sg_whirlpoolpcs_gaming_configs_1I was looking at the "Intel Gaming/Multi-Purpose Config" one, though with some minor changes: CPU: Intel Core i5 3470 $189 -- probably get the slightly faster variant of thisMobo: Asrock B75 Pro3-M $70 -- no idea if this is any goodRAM: G.Skill Ares 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600 $45HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB (ST2000DM001) $99 -- swap this out for a ~256GB SSD - was probably going to get a Crucial based on parabol's recommedationsGPU: Galaxy 2GB Nvidia Geforce GTX660 GC $249 -- I have a GTX460 - I assume I'll need to upgrade it to get the most out of the i5?Case&PSU: Thermaltake V4 Black Edition w/ USB3 and 500W Litepower PSU $75 -- no idea about caseODD: DVD burner $19Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am just using this for webstuff and the occasional game (mostly StarCraft 2 these days).

My next PC build (stealth thread hijack -- the build of Trog's build, I'm interested as well) I'm looking at eventually getting for 2012 maybe Xmas on the edge of 2013.

CaseChassis: Corsair Obsidian 800D
Processor: Intel Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz/3.9GHz Turbo LGA 1155 Quad-Core Processor (8MB L3 Cache)
Graphics Card: Dual 2GB GDDR5 Nvidia GTX 680
Memory: 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600Mhz (4x 4GB) Dual Channel Memory
Power Supply: 1050 Watt Corsair HX1050 PSU
Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth Z77 (USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s) - But Im also open to ASRock cause it got reviews on Overclocking on Overlock.net.
Hard Drive One: 2TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 6.0Gb/s, 7200RPM, 64MB Cache HDD
Hard Drive Two: 2TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 6.0Gb/s, 7200RPM, 64MB Cache HDD
Hard Drive Three: 240GB Corsair Force GT - Solid State Drive
Hard Drive Four: 240GB Corsair Force GT - Solid State Drive
Optical Drive One: 24X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
Audio: Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe - Optional

- - - -

CaseChassis: Corsair Obsidian 800D
Processor: Intel Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz/3.9GHz Turbo LGA 1155 Quad-Core Processor (8MB L3 Cache)
Graphics Card: Dual 2GB GDDR5 Nvidia GTX 680
Memory: 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600Mhz (4x 4GB) Dual Channel Memory
Power Supply: 1050 Watt Corsair HX1050 PSU
Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth Z77 (USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s)
Hard Drive One: 2TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 6.0Gb/s, 7200RPM, 64MB Cache HDD
Hard Drive Two: 2TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATA 6.0Gb/s, 7200RPM, 64MB Cache HDD
Hard Drive Three: 256GB Samsung 830 Series - Solid State Drive
Hard Drive Four: 256GB Samsung 830 Series - Solid State Drive
Optical Drive One: 24X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability - Optional...
Audio: Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe
Operating System: Genuine MS Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit Edition

- - - -

Intel CPU Core i7 3770K - LGA 1155
ASRock X79 Extreme9 Intel Mainboard - LGA 2011
OCZ Vertex 4 - 512GB
Seagate Barracuda 3TB
Seagate Barracuda 3TB
G.SKILL DDR3 16GB (2x8GB) PC-19200/2400 Trident X F3-2400C10D-16GTX
G.SKILL DDR3 16GB (2x8GB) PC-19200/2400 Trident X F3-2400C10D-16GTX
Asus GTX 680 OC DirectCU II
Thermaltake Armor Revo - Black
Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W


The things I have noticed in hardware forums as the ongoing theme: (My forum lurking observations of a few hardware forums)

- Lack of motherboards that deliver Tri-SLI when, eventually if you get 3 monitors. Yeah sure investment down the road but looks amazing.

- A lot of people on my Steam friends list recommend Intel or Samsung for the Solid State Hard Drive side of things. But since OCZ nailed the Sandforce problems in the firmware. I might also learn in with OCZ Vertex drives. I want to hear more about this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandForce#Issues

- For the time being Z77 is good probably have 3690 Processors here now or some other configuration; Some of the overclockers recommend Z79 chipset, (But tends to roll with the mentality "2550K or bust.")

- Minimum of power supply that is Gold or Silver standard, cause the newer video cards chew a fair bit of power. Usually 750 Watt or 800 Watt. Maybe not so much for the GTX 670. Not to sure about the ATI power consumption and load balancing.

- ATI has some good driver support but not great. No, I am not a NVIDIA fan, but the GTX 670 seems to stack on its merits also supposedly power consumption. We'll see with the ATI 8XXX series.

- 3570/3570K (if overclocking) / 3770K if you're doing video editing for the hyper threading function.

- The water cooling options seem to sort of have potential but I don't trust the plastic and rubber hose so far.

- Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate? : Windows 8 doesn't look promising -- yet. Considering theres really only Battlefield 3 for DirectX 11 and Blacklight Retribution and potentially in the near future Crytek 3 engine and or Unreal 4 Engine. Dev tools should be getting a lot more rock solid though.

- RAM still hasn't really got past the 1600 mark maybe 1800 (9 9 9 9) but not much of a real need yet. Not to sure about the whole Tri-RAM thing.

I'd like to hear other things. I'm interested considering I haven't really built anything new since 2008.
http://www.rabb1t.com/mypc.html - Im watching this guy cause he always updates his build blog.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1411 - Also been keeping an eye on PC Case Gear's builds.

jsut read trogs post and skipped the rest, its ok but i would probably change that psu to a modular 650w or higher. PSU's are cheap as chips these days so why not.

I have just gone down the water cooling route when i replaced the motherboard

I went an all-in-done corsair water cooler (no plumbing needed, and less fear involved) I got the H40, and the i5 hasn't gotten above ~38 degrees, even under the most taxing operations (and the radiator is on the exhaust, it would be cooler no doubt on the air inlet side of the case)

Trog>> as other mentioned maybe the next PSU size up, 600w plus,
oh, and unless youre overclocking, dont get a K model intel, the plain non over clockable ones are better

I'm more inclined to keep many revisions of my writing than to rely on a backup for that.

Being randomly against relying on version control software, while happily relying on RAID for backups is a bit silly imo ... but whatever.

Since we're talking about backup. Beyond full, incremental, and differential is there anything out there that has Dropbox like functionality without uploading to the cloud? I want to choose a selection of folders to monitor. It sync those folders in real time whenever a change is detected (ideally not the the full file and only what is changed ala Dropbox) to a USB drive. I don't want anything scheduled. I also want rollback (again like Dropbox), so if I do screw up and it's synced I can go back to a previous version.

lulz at anyone not already using an ssd

I have an SSD in my PC but my laptop which I use way more has a 750gb Momentus XT. I really don't notice much difference the way I use it. I have 16gig ram and normally only restart once a week or so. Everything I use is already open and stays open so most everything is in memory or the cache of the moments xt. Once I can get at least 500gig at a reasonable price I'll change, but I'm in no rush. I store a lot of image iso's, downloads, VM's and a largish music collection.

hybrids are great in laptops, good speed, and cheap $/GB

I think it's time for me to get a new PC too. I too have NFI what's what anymore.

Is it worth upgrading this s***?

intel e8400 @ 3.6GHz
4GB RAM
P45 board
ATI HD4870x2

Was playing some borderlands 2 and it wasn't as smooth as I'd like.

orbs, yes.

jsut read trogs post and skipped the rest, its ok but i would probably change that psu to a modular 650w or higher. PSU's are cheap as chips these days so why not.

I guess two questions then:

1) What case do I get, or can I just get the case I was looking at and ask for a bigger PSU?

2) Presumably having a higher wattage PSU won't make any difference to how much power the system consumes, unless I am cramming it full of more stuff?

1) If the case comes with a PSU, you're stuck with that but you can always buy another one and swap it out.

2) I'm no expert in this area but as I understand it, a 650w PSU will be supplying 650w of continuous power so my assumption is that yes it draws whatever it is rated at. How efficiency under load affects that is probably a bigger factor. I'm sure there's a sparky lurking around here who can explain it a lot better.

parabol, what would you pick between:

Intel 520S 240GB/SATA3/R 550MBs,W 520MBs/25nm/3.5"Kit/5yr [3] Instock $265.00
Crucial RealSSD C400 256G SATA3 M4 Series [4] Instock $235.00

I'm mostly interested in performance and reliability; full disk encryption etc not really a priority.

How do I tell if a PSU is "modular" as yall are talking about it? e.g., looking at the Antec Sonata IV which looks like the new model of exactly what I have now. It has a 620W PSU so might give me a bit more headroom if that is going to be a concern?

I've generally found PSU's that come bundled with cases tend not to cope that great under load, that's why I either swap them out from the get to or just buy a case without a PSU and buy my PSU separate. My understanding with higher wattage PSU's is they'll just use the extra juice when they need it, I think some of them have smarter mechanisims in them to actually save power when idle.

In terms of the case, it's tough to suggest a case to go for because everyone has different tastes. You'll need a standard ATX or bigger for the ASRock Z77 Extreme4. PC Case Gear is a great site to use for ideas as they've got lots of pictures, lengthy descriptions, specs etc. I generally look towards Fractal or Lian Li for ATX sized boxes these days but as mentioned, all comes down to personal taste.

as I understand it, a 650w PSU will be supplying 650w of continuous power so my assumption is that yes it draws whatever it is rated at.

nah, the pc will only draw what it needs. a bigger psu just lets you run more s***.

How do I tell if a PSU is "modular" as yall are talking about it? e.g., looking at the Antec Sonata IV which looks like the new model of exactly what I have now. It has a 620W PSU so might give me a bit more headroom if that is going to be a concern?

It's unlikely you'll find a modular PSU bundled with a case. If the PSU is modular, it would tell you as they're normally considered a desirable selling feature.

It's unlikely you'll find a modular PSU bundled with a case. If the PSU is modular, it would tell you as they're normally considered a desirable selling feature.

Right, ta. Getting a case + PSU seems lots more expensive; even that Sonata is more than I wanted to spend.

So unless people are confident that the one I was looking at originally (Thermaltake V4 Mid Tower Case Black Edition with 500W PSU USB3.0) will NOT be able to drive the below I think I'll just stick with that) - here's what I've got so far:

G Skill 16G(2x8G) DDR3 1600MHZ PC3-12800 CL10(10D-16GBXL) $95.00 $8.64 $95.00
Intel 520S 240GB/SATA3/R 550MBs,W 520MBs/25nm/3.5"Kit $265.00 $24.09 $265.00
Asrock Z77-EXTREME4 Z77/4 x DDR3/2 x PCI-E3.0/4 x SATA3/6 x USB3.0/HDM $135.00 $12.27 $135.00
Intel Core i5 3570K LGA1155 CPU 3.4Ghz 6Mb Cache Ivy Bridge $238.00 $21.64 $238.00
Asus DRW-24B5ST BLK/G/AS 24X DVD-RW $23.50 $2.14 $23.50
Thermaltake V4 Mid Tower Case Black Edition with 500W PSU USB3.0 $75.00 $6.82 $75.00
Gigabyte GV-N66TOC-2GD PCI-E 3.0 2GB DDR5 2x DVI , HDMI, DP, Fan $335.00 $30.45 $335.00
Total $106.05 $1166.50

So, things yet to clarify:

1) Will that PSU be enough to drive all that, plus one more normal HDD?
2) Intel SSD vs Crucial?
3) I've picked the top i5 with the 'K' after it, not sure if I need that one or if I can get the one without the K :)

honestly modular psu's are just so much easier and neater, you only need to plug in enough connections for how many things you're plugging in and you aren't left with a billion wires and plugs hanging around

honestly modular psu's are just so much easier and neater, you only need to plug in enough connections for how many things you're plugging in and you aren't left with a billion wires and plugs hanging around

I'm not building it and don't plan to open it up ever except to put in an HDD

1) Will that PSU be enough to drive all that, plus one more normal HDD?

I'd say it'll be fine, the video card is going to draw the most power and you're not running the top of the range card. If you decide to update your video card down the track, it's just as easy to update your PSU if you need. The GTX660 should be running the Kepler chipset which is meant to be a bit more power efficient anyway, I've got a GTX680 on a 620w PSU and I've not had any trouble. One thing you could take a look at is one of those power calculator sites where you punch in all the components and it give you an estimated PSU wattage you'd require. There's a whole bunch around, here's one.

2) Intel SSD vs Crucial?

Both reliable, Intel's a little faster and a little more expensive but either would be fine.

3) I've picked the top i5 with the 'K' after it, not sure if I need that one or if I can get the one without the K :)

You'll save about ~$30 going with the standard. If you were running onboard graphics, I'd say definitely go the K version because it's running intel's 4000 graphics chipset compared to the 2500 series in the standard. Given you'll running a dedicated card, doesn't really matter.

Awesome man, thanks - really appreciate your (and everyone else's) feedback. Been a long long time since I looked at PC hardware because my trusty ole Core 2 duo has been such an awesome system and as usual it has changed heaps.

I'd recommend a better PSU. Try not to go for a sub-$50 cheapy.


A good PSU has a mtbf of at least 100,000 hours (@25C), an efficiency rating of at least 80% across 20/50 and 100% load conditions (though said rating can be just 'made up' by marketing companies), Overvoltage/OverPower/Short-Circuit protection, blah blah blah.


None of this really matters to you as you don't want to over-clock... but I'll break it down to this: don't spend less than $100 for the PSU, get a quality brand/model (ie - not the stuff I used to put into peoples PCs knowing they'll be back in 12 months for a $120 PSU ;)

I agree $50 PSUs last about a year in a gaming PC, then they cark it. And sometimes take your hard drives with them.

got to say the ole core 2 duo are a good chip, and the i5's are shaping up to have the same longevity

the build looks pretty solid, but I drop the "K" and go standard, and use the $30 on a better PSU,

(the amount of people that rave how you must get the "k"'s without asking if you plan on overclocking still astounds me, unless you plan on it, which i dont think trog is, it is a waste of money imo)

I thought all the K's self-overclock in some boards? Or am I on drugs?

My 2700K (3.5Gig) is sitting here at ~3.8 atm as I'm transcoding something in the background. It'll settle down to 3.5gig later when the job is done I think.


honestly, I don't do this all day everyday anymore so I'm a bit out of date

I thought all the K's self-overclock in some boards? Or am I on drugs?

There are a few differences between the K vs standard, one difference is the K is unlocked so you can overclock it, the tradeoff is if you're a VM nut and want to say mess around with bare metal ESXi builds, you can't with the K version of the CPU as having the unlocked version of the CPU means Intel have disabled VT-D (Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O), that doesn't mean to say you can't install vm player or whatever inside an OS though.

A deciding factor on the K version for me for example if I were building a HTPC with onboard graphics, I would go for the K version as they're (at least some of them) are running the Intel 4000 series graphics chipsets, so you're going to get it bit better performance out of video play back, basics games etc. I heard somewhere the 4000 graphics chipset is powerful enough to run BF3 on it's absolute minimum settings but it's not something I've ever tried.

Really all comes down to the users requirements.

parabol, what would you pick between:

Intel 520S 240GB/SATA3/R 550MBs,W 520MBs/25nm/3.5"Kit/5yr [3] Instock $265.00
Crucial RealSSD C400 256G SATA3 M4 Series [4] Instock $235.00

It's hard to say. I usually look for the lowest dissatisfaction (1-star) ratings percentage on sites with reliable user reviews, so:

[Intel 520S]
Newegg: 7% (sample size: 58)
Amazon: 6% (sample size: 53)

[Crucial M4]
Newegg: 11% (sample size: 276)
Amazon: 7-8% (sample size: 1021)

The problem here is that the Intel 520 hasn't been out as long, so there are two things to take into consideration:

1. For the Intel, you have a low sample size to base a decision on (>100 preferred, 200 is great, 500+ is a reliable data set)
2. Potential long-term problems with the Intel drive may not have been unearthed yet

However Intel consistently has superb QA procedures across almost all products they manufacture. Also their SSD has a 5 year warranty (vs 3 years for Crucial). Then again Crucial has pumped out two good series of drives in a row.

If price is not important and if you're unlikely to care about the drive after 3 years, then I'd just toss a coin.

last edited by parabol at 14:40:41 21/Oct/12

Thanks man!

I have a corsair 650wat PSU, I have had no problems with it. It also came with a cool draw string bag thing.

You don't have to use torrents or Usenet to get windows ISOs.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/downloads/hh442898.aspx#FileId=46948

I am sure SSDs are fracking awesome and I would like to have one or even try one. At this point in time I am happy to wait till they get better and cheaper. Just consider your wallet and what you use it for and if you are happy with mechanical drives for now or not.

im still running my core2duo system

i bought it with spook jnr's baby bonus :(

im still running my core2duo system

so am I Spooky.. though it's wifey's PC now. She never uses it. The kids do though.


She got a HTC Sensation mobile phone some time back, and hasn't touched her PC since.

edit: nevermind maybe i have vt-d on the test pc and it's not actually a k-model cpu lol

One hopefully last question: I was going to get the G Skill RAM because that was what was on that WP page, but I note there are three varieties:

G.Skill
G.Skill Ripjaws X for Sandy Bridge
G.Skill Triple Channel DDR3

I assume I don't want the last one.. help?

I was just going to get 16GB so was looking at the Sandy Bridge option: G Skill 16G(2x8G) DDR3 1600MHZ PC3-12800 CL10(10D-16GBXL) - but don't know if I want that or not.

edit: ok one more question. Do I want a Ti chipset on my video card or can I live without it, its like $100 difference by the looks. Bear in mind I am not really playing cutting edge stuff and am happy to upgrade video card in a couple years. Looks like I am choosing between the GV-N660OC-2GD (GTX 660 GPU ) and the GV-N66TOC-2GD (GTX 660 Ti GPU )

I was just going to get 16GB so was looking at the Sandy Bridge option: G Skill 16G(2x8G) DDR3 1600MHZ PC3-12800 CL10(10D-16GBXL)

I've gone G.Skill exclusively over the last couple of years as they're fairly reliable and they almost always have a couple of models listed as officially compatible with whatever mobo I'm buying at the time. Shame they use up so much vertical space (I have 0.5mm of room below it and the CPU heatsink on one build).

That model be fine. The Asrock mobo is on their compatibility list:

http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=422

TI is a bit faster - check this video

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/battlefield-3-1080p-dx11-ultra-settings-gtx-660-vs-gtx660-ti-video

as for psu using a 650w antec truepower that like 4 yrs or so old
i5
16g ripjaws
4 hdds
gtx 680

yeah +1 for gskill as well, I bought 12gb of trident 2000mhz years ago in australia and noticed problems with my pc recently and it turned out to be one ram stick, emailed them for a rma, filled out the form and sent back the 6gb ram from germany to their office here and within a week had 3 new sticks. good service no drama.

double check that the psu is compatible with the graphics card

last time i built a computer i realised too late that the psu only had 1 6 pin connector - new graphics cards run 2

I am running 2 x 8gb G.Skill Ripjaws here, no problems at all. The Corsair PSU I mentioned has 2 6 pin PCI-E connectors.

So PC was ready 2 days after ordering; went in & picked it up. Reinstalled Windows from scratch (too paranoid to let anyone else install my operating system; it made me itchy behind the eyeballs - tinfoil hat may need adjustment). Copied over SC2 from my old PC and it really screams.

I ended up going for the i7, figuring what the hell. I am still getting used to Windows 7 so need to figure out all the bells and whistles it has and how to work around the stuff that pisses me off (no Logitech MX500 driver so I can't customise buttons? Alt-tab shows window preview instead of the icon, making it a billion times harder to figure out how to switch between Windows?)

Last night though I installed Dota 2 for the first time and fired it up for a game with some friends. While I was playing I realised i'd forgotten to actually shut down StarCraft 2, which was just happily running in the background. This thing freaking screams, and it is almost creepily dead quiet which I guess is largely because of the SSD.

Thanks to all for suggestions; made it heaps easier to decide what to get and I'm pretty damn happy with the purchase. Now I might even try to play BF3 (but probably I'll stick with SC2).

no Logitech MX500 driver so I can't customise buttons?

May I recommend the G400 (link) as a possible $34 substitute if it's bothering you. I am happily using that as a replacement for my wired G5, which has a similar profile.

I am still getting used to Windows 7

Typical, Windows 8 got released today.

and it is almost creepily dead quiet which I guess is largely because of the SSD.

As your system is new it may be worth keeping an eye on both the drives for early failures, using a S.M.A.R.T. info tool like:

http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/crystaldiskinfo_portable (this portable version doesn't have bundled adware)

This tool recently saved me from data loss, as a failing mechanical drive was identified early on for a partition I don't back up too regularly (due to lack of space for such bulky data).

Typical, Windows 8 got released today.

haha trog was current for like 2 days

he's no longer an early adopter