Saw this last weekend at HN Indro.

http://trog.qgl.org/up/1201/harvey_monster_1.jpg

The first thing I saw was the two screens and the Monster cable sign, so I immediately was interested to see the "Monster difference".

The second thing I saw was that the difference between the two images was simply staggering. The one on the left - with the Monster cable - was crystal clear and looked fantastic. The one on the right was blurry and terrible. You can't tell the difference in the photo (from my mobile phone) but it was immediately obvious, even from a distance.

However, the bad one on the right was way, way, way too bad to be anything other than non-digital. Anyone that has ever compared a monitor plugged in via DVI to one plugged in via VGA would know exactly what I mean - the difference is amazing - and completely unsurprising.

I could not believe that they would do a display like this with such a cheap "trick", but looking behind the screens, sure enough I saw a composite cable plugged in (or component? can't remember which is which because no sane person would ever use one on a modern TV).

The salesguys at HN Indro I have always found to be pretty good; I've been going there for years and know many of them by sight (although mostly in the PC section). So I was pretty disappointed when I grabbed a guy and asked what was going on with this, and he explained that this display was NOT set up to show that Monster HDMI is better than regular HDMI, it is simply to show that HDMI is better than composite/component/other forums of plugs. Hence the text on the signs, "Monster HDMI" vs "cable in the box" (apparently new TVs still don't come with HDMI cables, ffs!)

This is not a new thing for Monster but I was disappointed to see HN doing this, especially after I found out my g/f's father was upsold into buying a Monster cable for his new TV.

While it is fairly clearly not "false advertising", it is pretty irritating to see this sort of display, given that - as far as I can tell from reading things like the Gizmodo review - there is absolutely no advantage to buying Monster cables, unless you are suffering from a burden of so much extra money that it is making it hard for you to walk around because your pants keep falling down around your ankles due to wallet weight.

So if you know your technically noob friends and family are venturing out to buy a new TV in the near future, if there's any risk of them going to HNs or a place that might have a similar display, make sure you pre-educate them on the matter of HDMI cable quality so they don't end up spending many extra dollars where it doesn't matter.

Buyer beware.

well, to any lay person, I would say that it is preaching that monster is better

and they should make it more clear that they are different cable type, removing the branding from it (unless it is monster hdmi vs component)

also, when the in-laws to be brought their new TV it came with a HDMI cable in the box, so there are a few issues with this in my mind

apparently new TVs still don't come with HDMI cables, ffs!

Recently bought a new sony blu-ray player and not only was there no HDMI, there wasn't even a component cord. they give you a RCA cable (the red, yellow and white cable). managed to find a spare component cable around the house but i found it hilarious.

What stood out to me more was the poor grammar on the sign.

YOUR!?
I guess if you're stupid enough to buy the cable, you'll also be stupid enough to not notice the difference though, and maybe vice-versa.

Surely this has to be false advertising though if they're deceptively misleading the consumer like this, comparing an unlike product?

What stood out to me more was the poor grammar on the sign.

haha yeh, I was going to point that out as well

While it is fairly clearly not "false advertising"

It may not be "false" but imo could be construed as misleading if they haven't advertised the set up you are seeing and use the visual aid to up sell.

Surely this can't be legal. Definitely misleading.

I think Kogan did the right thing last year : http://www.kogan.com.au/blog/2011/mar/16/kogan-offers-free-hdmi-cables-cut-cable-con/

My first impression from looking at the display, It is comparing Monster HDMI to other HDMI cables. Sure it says 'cable in the box' but when I see comparisons like this I immediately imagine apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

In my mind they are intentionally passively misleading people into thinking Monster HDMI is being compared to HDMI. For Shame.

Yeah, I thought thats what they would be doing, cheeky pricks. A composite cable can only handle about 520 lines of display from memory, is that right?

Monster & HN need a kick in the balls for stunts like this. Clearly not apples for apples and your average punter wont know it.

Quick, someone call the Government!

That is quite dodgy that they don't point out it's not a comparison between two HDMI cables. Then your dad, or your older brother, or your uncle is gonna come round at easter and try to convince you that Monster HDMI is better than HDMI, and you'll be like "are you sure they were both HDMI" and he'll be all "Yeah of course I'm sure!" because it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be.

Plus the sign says "SEE WHAT YOUR MISSING"
Clearly English classes is what they're missing...

What they should have is an el cheapo HDMI beside a Monster HDMI and see if you can see a difference.

someone should ask for such a demo and report back.
I doubt anyone could tell the difference apart from at the Cash Register.

I gotta say, it serves anyone right for shopping at hardly normal

well at the end of the day, this is dishonest,

if this was a car yard, real estate, or bank, there would be lawyers and media everywhere,

i believe unconscionable conduct in sales is still illegal and this is pretty much spot on

I think that's bulls*** and is misleading.

Judging by your photo I would assume that both TV's are connected via HDMI and the one on the left is using Monster HDMI versus Yum-Char HDMI that came in the box...

They are delibrately not disclosing that the 'cable in the box' is non-HDMI and it's making out that you will only get these results (on the left tele) if you use Monster HDMI.

Boycott Harvy Normans!


... O wait their prices take care of that.

Should have done an Indiana Jones and swapped the signs around on the TV's.

While it is fairly clearly not "false advertising"

Maybe not false advertising, but surely it comes under some law to basically deceive people into thinking they need to buy X when they only need to buy Y for the same benefit.

Yeah pretty much dodgy practice. Not sure if it's illegal per se but sure as s*** pretty dishonest. Bad HN, very bad

How much would it cost to get some store, such as harvey norman, to create such a display?
We could all chip in and have them set up another tv showing an ordinary HDMI cable, or convince some cheaper HDMI cable manufactuerers to go in on this.

Should have done an Indiana Jones and swapped the signs around on the TV's.

HAHAHAH

almost tempted to drive down there and do this, ahhaha

or set up a proper HDMI on the other one

last edited by thermite at 14:55:18 16/Jan/12

Monster Cables are FAR too overpriced and are not much different than a lot of cheaper alternatives. I am talking a $30 HDMI cable vs a $220 Monster cable. I could see no difference at all. Just a heads up.

Same with Fibre Optic cables - don't buy expensive ones, it's light. There is no interference and need for stupid amounts of shielding etc. As long as the end connector is quality, you usually plug it in once and leave it there.

it might not be false advertising but is sure is misleading advertising

i wonder how much money HN makes off this s***

Monster Cables are FAR too overpriced and are not much different than a lot of cheaper alternatives. I am talking a $30 HDMI cable vs a $220 Monster cable. I could see no difference at all. Just a heads up.

sweet. thanks for the heads up.

How much would it cost to get some store, such as harvey norman, to create such a display?
We could all chip in and have them set up another tv showing an ordinary HDMI cable, or convince some cheaper HDMI cable manufactuerers to go in on this.

Monster probably have a contract that specifies no other cable manufacturer gets to make demo displays in Harvey Norman stores.

I can just imagine the poor old ladies walking in about to buy their new tvs because their older ones wont work soon and getting rimjawed from some young f***wit HN sales person scamming them into a $200 cable instead of a $20 one

Xaltd saves the day

HN is fine if you've got a mate that works there - I got my Razer Mamba for $125

That is an epic promotion Kogan did, that kinda thinking is what's made him such good coin

RT'd on twitter and cc'd in HN twitter account. This is not cool.

who would have thought that being open about your business was good for your business

I saw something similar at Myer the other weekend where they had their whizz bang highly priced Samsung LED TVs showing crystal clear Star Wars while all the other lesser brands like LG had god awful pictures. So I snuck a look behind and the same thing as trog mentioned, Samsung had the HDMI while all the other TVs were using composite connections!

I'm pretty sure that would fall under deceptive and misleading comparisons. I know in WA there are laws about having to compare with "like" products.

^ you'd think LG would get f***ed off with the retailer (myer) if the retailer delibrately made their (LG's) product look inferior against a competitors (Samsung)......

Im sure LG arent sending sales reps to do walking checks of every myer/shop they sell products to either tho so how would they know?

I don't think LG would be so islated from the world that they would have no idea that these sort of comparisons take place..... maybe have something in the sales contracts etc?

But I guess they are kind of at the mercy of big retailers and probably don't want to risk losing retailers support.

I dunno, I just know I'd be super pissed if I was LG ceo and my companies products were delibrately displayed to look s***.

But I guess they are kind of at the mercy of big retailers and probably don't want to risk losing retailers support.

But what is that retail support worth when they are using your product as a sacrifice to make other brands look better?

Well yeah, I was gunna say that too but cbf in the end!

Even Coles get sales Reps for heaps of brands (Like Coke, Pauls Milk, Cadbury) coming into the store every single week... it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for a LG rep to hit up the major stores fairly often.

This is just another dick move in a long line of dick moves from HN. Nothing unexpected.

This is a great blog on a tangential subject:

http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2011/12/forthcoming-irrelevance-of-australian.html

Also I gotta give props to Kogan, I bought a d5100 from them several months ago which subsequently stopped working due to a repairable defect (quoted $250 to repair) and they replaced it with a brand spanker direct from HK, within 2 weeks, over the Xmas period! Most impressed.

Been reading up on Monster Cables and Harvey Norman

At the checkout, last minute, I said to the guy could I grab your cheapest HDMI cable for hooking up a PS3 and an Xbox.

He came back with two Monster brand 4.1 cables. I chucked them in with the TV on credit and didn't even check the prices. Got home and found out I've spent $140 on each cable.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1695596

What a deadset c***job!!


Oh and the sales director of Monster cables is an ex Harvey Norman franchisee
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1544123


last edited by thermite at 15:54:57 16/Jan/12

I am talking a $30 HDMI cable vs a $220 Monster cable

Even the worst no-brand $5 HDMI 1.4 cable will suffice for most applications if it's 1.5m or shorter.

When you're running 5m though, that's when quality starts to matter - but you're still looking in the ballpark of $30-50, but certainly not >$200!!

When I bought my plasma, JB tried to sell me a $100 HDMI cable. I said no thanx and just went to CA's and got one for $30.

Yep, it's dodgy IMO.

what crack me up about jb-hi and monster cables, is (at s'pine) go to the A/V section, and find all of about three different types, all for $80+

yet walk to the console section, and in the ps3 cables, there is a "PS3 hdmi - TV hdmi cable" for $30, same length, same "features"

yet ask any of the staff, and they'll grab the monster cables and go "these are the cheapest we have" and when asked about the ""ps3"" they retort, nar, they only work on the PS3, or xbox,

then again it isn't as bad as the sales rep at the good guys

customer:, I would like a digital radio, so i can listen to 612am on the radio, and I hear AM is better on digital

Sales rep: none of these (waves at the expensive digital radios) get am, there isn't a digital radio that I know of that picks up am, what you need is this (drags her to the far cheaper micro hi-fi all happy that he knows all about this radio caper)

customer: (looking rather befuddled) oh okay, I must be confused I'm sure they said on the radio I could get the abc on digital, (he starts pointing out the different features, and the customer starts looking more and more confused)

as the little sales rep toddles off to get the model he has just sold, i pull the lady up and give her the facts, (basically that he was kinda right that you can't get AM on a digital radio, however they all broadcast in digital, she them wonders off grabs a guy from the fridge section who was closer in age (about 60) and promptly buys a radio from him,

meanwhile the first sales rep clearly upset at the loss of a sale, and the goings on tries to show that he was right, (by showing the fridge sales guy and the lady that there is no AM just FM and DAB+), to which i just selected 612, turned it up, and walked off

Even the worst no-brand $5 HDMI 1.4 cable will suffice for most applications if it's 1.5m or shorter.

I had a $5 hdmi which caused interference with the tv reception, took me ages to work out what it was, rewired the antenna to the wall, swapped lot's of cables, until I changed the hdmi cable from the comp and it all worked :(

copius I'm confused by your story a bit, probably because I don't know digital radios. Are you basically saying that even though it doesn't get an 'am signal' the so-called am stations still have a digital broadcast, it's just not called 'am' because that terminology doesn't apply to digital radio?

HN is a terrible place, what do you expect? Only reason I go in there is I'm too lazy to go to a proper store that specials in the product I'm interested in.

Im sure LG arent sending sales reps to do walking checks of every myer/shop they sell products to either tho so how would they know?

we have coke reps / milk reps / etc. go to our sites all the time, i don't think LG is going to have much problems finding some coin to send a rep out to verify their $100,000+ contract is being adhered too.



last edited by Captain Lateral at 16:38:19 16/Jan/12

why are we going on about LG when both TVs in his pictures are Samsung?

if you read the thread, you'd understand

they are talking about ticman's example

moving right along

RE: Ticman's post Teq

Edit: Shouldn't leave threads open too long before reading them...

We've been through this before.

HDMI cable, as a digital transmission, cannot improve the picture quality. They either work perfectly, or they will glitch out in an incredibly obvious way such as you simply get no picture.

While its true that you need a certain level of cable quality in terms of shielding if you are doing a longer cable run (eg, 10m) to ensure you actually get a picture, there is no picture-quality reward for spending any more money than is necessary to ensure the data is delivered. Short runs - less than five meters - you should be able to use the cheapest cable you can find without issue.

Jaycar for example have a 1.5m HDMI lead for $9.95 , but shipping is $7.00 . Still a good deal though, particularly if you need a few (or some other stuff) because the shipping is for up to 5kg.

it's not illegal; it's frowned upon.

In all seriousness, it's definitely flirting with the line. In my view, the advertising could easily (and more significantly, reasonably) be understood by the everyday job as Monster HDMI compared with everything else (including other HDMI cables).

I have monster cables at home cause i paid only $40 for them about 4 years ago...

Jaycar for example have a 1.5m HDMI lead for $9.95 , but shipping is $7.00

What's not advertised online is the baskets they have in-store with 4-packs for under $30.

Nice investigating trog

(apparently new TVs still don't come with HDMI cables, ffs!)

I acquired a Sony LED last year and It didn't come with a HDMI cable. Not that I expected it to come with one since the TV doesn't require a HDMI cable to work. Although it would of been nice. However, I had to go back and buy a Sony wireless adaptor to access the network and internet TV. Why package an internet TV with no adaptor ffs?

copius I'm confused by your story a bit, probably because I don't know digital radios. Are you basically saying that even though it doesn't get an 'am signal' the so-called am stations still have a digital broadcast, it's just not called 'am' because that terminology doesn't apply to digital radio?

Yeah I think that what he means. In digital there is no AM or FM as such, just a digital number (like frequency) assigned to the station.

I know nothing about digital radio, so I'm just assuming. It also sounds like the Good Guys sales rep was not well informed/trained rather than delibrately trying to mislead someone.

Sony wireless adaptor to access the network and internet TV. Why package an internet TV with no adaptor ffs?

Because it probably has a network port?

why are we going on about LG when both TVs in his pictures are Samsung?

Because of this post:

I saw something similar at Myer the other weekend where they had their whizz bang highly priced Samsung LED TVs showing crystal clear Star Wars while all the other lesser brands like LG had god awful pictures. So I snuck a look behind and the same thing as trog mentioned, Samsung had the HDMI while all the other TVs were using composite connections!

Also, all you need is this:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/micro-hdmi-v1-4-male-to-hdmi-male-connection-cable-1-5m-length-65401

In digital there is no AM or FM as such, just a digital number (like frequency) assigned to the station.

AM and FM refer to how the audio is encoded ("modulated" - the M) within the frequency.

Digital broadcasts - both TV and radio - are still on particular frequencies, they're just encoded differently. If you've ever watched a new digital TV searching for stations, what its doing is scanning through the frequencies to see what stations are available. Some TVs will even show the frequencies to you as it finds stations, not that its really of any value.

In regards to cables in boxes, composite cables are cheaper to produce than HDMI so unfortunately all we're seeing is manufacturers saving a few bucks.

TBH I think we're at a point where the cable should be left out entirely, its such a waste including cables I will never use in every device I buy.

hey Ticman, Email Lg and tell them what was going on, you might even get a gift voucher.
I complain a lot online and have got quite a few goodies/refunds.
is it still going on ?
can you post the store address ?

TV prices are about to tank yet again, there are huge amounts of Chinese TVs about to hit Australia. These arent deluxe models just cheap, huge screens but the Samsungs, Lgs are going to have to dramatically cut their prices to compete, if you are about to buy a tv wait a few weeks. Its about to become a Bloodbath.

These arent deluxe models just cheap, huge screens but the Samsungs, Lgs are going to have to dramatically cut their prices to compete, if you are about to buy a tv wait a few weeks. Its about to become a Bloodbath.

Cool. My g/f got a 60" LG the other day and now my 40" Samsung makes me feel like less of a man, so I want to get something bigger. Although they are so fkn cheap now it's not even funny; I saw a 50" LG plasma advertised on the weekend for something crazy like $600

TV prices are about to tank yet again, there are huge amounts of Chinese TVs about to hit Australia. These arent deluxe models just cheap, huge screens but the Samsungs, Lgs are going to have to dramatically cut their prices to compete, if you are about to buy a tv wait a few weeks. Its about to become a Bloodbath.

But I don't want to wait :(

Faceman makes a comment about market direction without evidence : Thanks for the advice faceman.
Faceman makes a comment about authority with evidence. : You're crazy faceman!

there are huge amounts of Chinese TVs about to hit Australia.

i'd really like to see your evidence. I remember hearing about something similar, so i believe you, i'm just surprised anyone is willing to take anything you say at face value.

Resistence is Futile.

Can't you go to the ACCC with something like this? It's pretty dodge.

actually i was at a mates place who has a new 50 inch with good HD and tbh movies in HD seem to lose some of the lighting character

Q. When does HDMI look like you're using composite video?
A. When you're using my s***ty monitor.

I kid you not, if I use HDMI the picture from my xbox, or my windows PC is blurred and all s***ty looking. DVI looks 100000x better. HDMI looks fine on my TV though, it's the monitor.

s*** move IMO.

TV prices are about to tank yet again, there are huge amounts of Chinese TVs about to hit Australia. These arent deluxe models just cheap, huge screens but the Samsungs, Lgs are going to have to dramatically cut their prices to compete, if you are about to buy a tv wait a few weeks. Its about to become a Bloodbath.

As if sony, samsung, LG, etc aren't all just made in china anyway. So instead of 10,000% profit they'll only make 8,000% boo hoo.

Q. When does HDMI look like you're using composite video?
A. When you're using my s***ty monitor.

I kid you not, if I use HDMI the picture from my xbox, or my windows PC is blurred and all s***ty looking. DVI looks 100000x better. HDMI looks fine on my TV though, it's the monitor.

It's not really the monitor's fault, there are far more variables in play. Same thing happens if I hook my PC up to my TV via HDMI. I read an interesting article a few weeks ago that explains why this happens.

TVs are All Awful

Essentially HDMI is s***ty for connecting to TVs because of decisions made in the 1930s.

Friends and family always ask me questions about TV's, computers etc. These days I just sometimes think "why bother explaining it to them".. Half the time they don't understand because the question they are asking is not easily answered. Like, hey why is my computer slow to boot up? (once i begun to list all the different things that cause this, i just end up telling them to buy a MAC and leave me alone).

my two cents.

What they should have is an el cheapo HDMI beside a Monster HDMI and see if you can see a difference.

did you even need to post this?
Come on man its too early in the year to be voted retarded poster of 2012

What stood out to me more was the poor grammar on the sign.

haha yeh, I was going to point that out as well

While we're being grammar Nazis, the thing that made me even more sad than the 'your' on the s***ty 5 second Wordpad printout job HN did for the display was Monster Cable's apparent inability to grasp the concept of a superlative.
Cable quality goes Good, Better, Best... then Ultra. So which one's best?

that's incredibly dodgy. There is absolutely no doubt that they are being deliberately misleading, although they are not flat out lieing.

I always assumed that they just turned one monitors saturation down..

I thought ACCC would have gone at them for comparing two different products.

Essentially HDMI is s***ty for connecting to TVs because of decisions made in the 1930s.

It's a PC monitor, it's HDCP compatible

TV looks fine, then again it's only a 720p TV (accepts 1080i but downscales) coz I don't need a 1000" tv to give me eye cancer.

I used to work at harveys indro in the PC section. This kind of thing has been done before and it's certainly dodgy and misleading to customers. My sister in-law bought a tv from Erina store (Gosford), and the dude said you'll need to buy some HDMI cables from $30.....but he included the $200 monster cable. Long story short she paid for it all but looked at invoice and saw how expensive cable was and took it back and bought far cheaper normal HDMI elsewhere.

There is mega markup on these cables, and the staff get a 'spiv' (bonus-vouchers/cash etc..) each time they sell them from monster or/and the proprietor.

copius I'm confused by your story a bit, probably because I don't know digital radios. Are you basically saying that even though it doesn't get an 'am signal' the so-called am stations still have a digital broadcast, it's just not called 'am' because that terminology doesn't apply to digital radio?

on most digital radios, (and in the case of both of mine) you get the choice of two frequencies (DAB+ which is the digital feed, and FM which is, FM radio)

on older radios, and in your car you have the choice of AM or FM,

now, AM radio is going to be phased out at some date (and is/has been handled like the TV analog feed, except that TV is clearing both VHF and UHF, where radio is just clearing AM,) so all but a few local radios stations (like those in very small towns) that are currently on AM have a rebroadcast in digital goodness, and this isn't like when digital TV first came out and there was a degree of uncertainty (also, I got mine in 09 so it has been around for two and a half years,)



but the point of the story was to highlight that when most people go into a store, and they are not the most tech savy, they would expect that the person would help with the service side of things, there are alot of retailers that went thru the staff rebranding (no longer calling then sales persons, but customer service rep's and what every other stupid titles they can think of)


(for those that would like to know my opinion on digital radio, just get it, I've picked up my second digital radio so I had some better to listen to at work, and my first radio in 09 when they got released (I listen to alot of AM, and nova nation (think wild FM but in modern times) the only downside is both radios lack volume, so my older one is hooked upto the big stereo (at first I bought a cheap set of logitec speakers)

Kotaku and Gizmodo spreading the word on the dodgyness:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/01/is-harvey-norman-misleading-customer-about-hdmi-monster-cables/
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/01/is-harvey-norman-misleading-customers-about-monster-cable/

Now we just need the official statement from Harvey Norman Indro!

TV prices are about to tank yet again, there are huge amounts of Chinese TVs about to hit Australia. These arent deluxe models just cheap, huge screens but the Samsungs, Lgs are going to have to dramatically cut their prices to compete, if you are about to buy a tv wait a few weeks. Its about to become a Bloodbath.

facey's been watching too much today tonight

Haha, kotaku links to AG, but gizmodo links to qgl.

Gizmodo wins!

Trog's getting mass props around the interblag.

Who the hell is Tim that told gizmodo? I told them too, plus I tipped news.com.au off about it, but they still haven't picked it up, tsk tsk.

Trog you've become e-famous! ohwait

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/12991/13303153.jpg

I like how it is trog from ausgamers, however links to the qgl website,

also, looks like ausgamers wont be getting any HN ads then?