Because I had a lot of support here when looking for work, and I love you guys, I will be hiring 5~10 Java and a handful of c# developers over the next year, for a major bank, with offices in the CBD.

Ill be looking for 3-5years min experience, but must looking for strong knowledge of:

Design Patterns & OO Principals
TFS experience, or good source control knowledge
Agile, XP experience
CI experience
In the c# side, ASP.net / MVC / MVP experience too
Sharepoint good too.

I will be running the interviews too, so Ill look at thread history ;) Salaries will be $75k min, good benifits like reduced home loan rates plus what you can haggle.

No need to rush the applications, will be alot comming in the new year. Will probably need some fresh out of uni kids too if thats you.

so Ill look at thread history ;)

well... f***.

Nice one dude. Although it fills me with dread when I think of ANYONE using Java, especially banks!@#

benifits

alot

comming

Will you also be hiring a secretary? They call me 'super secretary' at one client I work for. I'm available and I'm sure you'll find my rates very reasonable.

Although it fills me with dread when I think of ANYONE using Java, especially banks!@#

lolwut?

wait, whats wrong with java?

Nice one dude. Although it fills me with dread when I think of ANYONE using Java, especially banks!@#

*stab*

I'm about to post a 'HTF do you make this work in Jetty' thread :P

Any address/details for applications? I'll push it on to the graduating software engineers at UQ.

Although it fills me with dread when I think of ANYONE using Java, especially banks!@#

Lots of Java development where I work. What's wrong with Banks developing in Java? I'm not a developer so I don't really care. Just about every language you can think of is used here though. Everything from COBOL, REXX, Perl, Java, Assembler, blah blah on mainframe to C#, Java, PHP, ColdFusion and so on and so on.

I just hate Java is all.

Such a hater!

Java is fine. Even VB.Net is fine. VB6 is not fine.

whats wrong with VB6?

whats wrong with VB6?

Anyone can use it :/

I just hate Java is all.

Me too.

Java is good! (and I'm a C# dev)

VB6 is not fine.

I would also like to add perl to this list.

Just thank yourselves you never had to develop code in Fortran on a DEC PDP11 running RSX O/S on dumb terminals with a line editor. Pussies, LOL.

I've written machine code (MIPS).

f*** that low level bulls***. f*** it in the eye.

I would also like to add perl to this list.

Wait, what's wrong with perl?

lol, Perl

That's very nice of you mooby

Java has apparently come a long way. Back in 2001 I was thinking "this s*** is gonna die soon", but it did not, and it is used everywhere. When you download Java for your computer on the site it says that Java is used IN YOUR CAR, so there you go.

How long since you last took a look at Java trog?
It's a little different these days than it was in the late 90's.

I only pay out perl because spook uses it

Also cause its "write only" code

All good code is "write only" code.

what

Poser.

Yeah your hate of Java is irrational, trog - and I know how you like to consider yourself a rational person.

whats wrong with VB6?

It has an utterly f***ed design model that was carelessly implemented.

Just thank yourselves you never had to develop code in Fortran on a DEC PDP11 running RSX O/S on dumb terminals with a line editor. Pussies, LOL.

I develop in Fortran - a lot of my code is still in Fortran 77 format (should compile with a Fortran 77 compiler AFAIK) but mostly Fortran 90 (which is still old). A lot of code in the area I work in (numerical engineering analysis) is in Fortran.

Java is the new cobol.

http://cloudpanic.com/java.html

trog did a semester of Java at uni 10 years ago and decided it sucks

VS + .NET 4 + C# + ReSharper + Code Analysis + StyleCop > *

That is all.

haha Nathan, that sounds about what I think of Java, it sucked at uni.

It's used for so much stuff these days in the enterprise though, and has certainly come a long way.

so much off topics that should be nuked...

New thread?

I've written machine code

I wrote a little bit of assembly once, coming from C/C++. It was f***ed. Even simple s*** is like mathematical algorithm coding. Though I never did it long enough to get fluent at it.

wait, whats wrong with java?

It's a thing that second rate programmers have: irrational fundamentalist dislike of languages, even (especially) if they don't understand it. This pretty much defines Trog.

trog did a semester of Java at uni 10 years ago and decided it sucks

I decided it sucked long before I did it at uni

edit: the main reason I never liked it wasn't anything to do with the language itself; when it was "released" I didn't like the model of "write once run anywhere" the way they were talking about how it should be used in things like desktop applications. I hated, and still hate, the idea of everything going through a runtime interpreter to be made useful. I especially hated how kludgy and slow all the example applications felt compared to native Windows apps. Also I never really believed "write once run anywhere" would come to fruition to the level they describe, just because of various boring technical arcana that would prevent it from being 100% reliable. As far as I can tell a billion years later there are still people having compatibility problems between different Java environments, which seems to defeat the whole point to me (this recent slashdot post has a bunch of people having problems.

I know that in terms of performance everything has changed a bit since then. There are even quite a few popular Java-based applications now, and I'm sure it is great when you're using it in a specific operating environment with specific requirements.

When Google decided Android was going to be Java based I was very curious to see how it worked out; I figured on a mobile would be the absolute worst place to run Java because you had to be super CPU conscious, but it turns out they solved that problem by (as I understand it?) creating their own Java stuff.. which of course has now got them thrown into the courtroom.

I thought it was funny that a few months after Android's release they released an NDK for "performance critical" parts of applications. So that just reinforced the notion that it still sucks if you are performance focused.

Anyway, I haven't used it much and most of my comments are based on 10+ year old opinions; I thought it was obvious that I wasn't making a big technical dig at Java on any sound grounds (in fact I only posted to bump the thread to do mooby a favour) but now I'll try to moderate my bitching about Java to actual factual things (like Oracle figuring out a way to try to f*** everyone somehow, which I'm sure they'll do if they're not doing already).

Also, hi typo! Been ages since you bothered having a dig at me, I was starting to wonder what was going on. FWIW I have never considered myself a programmer, so it is quite an honor being called a second rate one. Maybe one day you'll explain your beef like an adult so I can figure out why you hate my guts so much (or maybe I'll give up trying). Unless you're just doing an Obes.

edit: i should qualify that above anything I consider myself a "right tool for the job" person. So I would not hesitate to use Java, or any other software tool that I find irritating for arbitrary reasons, if it was the best thing to use for a particular purpose. So far I haven't found anything in 10 years of looking that I have felt Java would be good to use for, is all.

You realise that slashdot is just OpenJDK replacing Java and your link to android being open enough to also provide NDK for specific situations (although almost every app you probably use on your phone is 100% java) as citations for why java sucks fundamentally?

Or is it just some trivia?

Edit: I'm just saying your reasons seem fairly trivial, like "I haven't any use for it therefore it sucks".

You realise that slashdot is just OpenJDK replacing Java

I don't understand this sentence - but I was referring to the comments in that Slashdot thread which have a bunch of people talking about how OpenJDK doesn't work for them so they have to use various older/different Java environments to manage their code.

and your link to android being open enough to also provide NDK for specific situations (although almost every app you probably use on your phone is 100% java)

That is a plus for Android, not Java, so I don't understand what relevance that has

Edit: I'm just saying your reasons seem fairly trivial, like "I haven't any use for it therefore it sucks".

Well I qualified that further with an edit shortly before you posted. I have no use for it so I don't use it. But that's not why I think/though it sucks; the reasons I outlined above are.

Don't you use an android phone? As in you hate java but you took a phone centered around that platform? I don't understand your hate of it. I can understand not using it, or thinking there might have been a better way to program it more efficiently at a native level, but i can't see where your rage comes from :P

The split between openjdk and suns's java shouldn't really impact your hate because it's actually not a problem with java, it's a problem with the open source community removing sun.. I'm not sure even in those comments how they're even anti-java other than 'change is happening and it's messing with what was working'. Maybe I didn't read deep enough down that list.

I'm questioning the relevance of your dislike of java at a mental level not a technical one :P

I thought it was funny that a few months after Android's release they released an NDK for "performance critical" parts of applications. So that just reinforced the notion that it still sucks if you are performance focused.

If you ignore games, mobile apps are largely the opposite of performance focused. 99% of the time they sit there doing nothing, and 1% of the time they are drawing stuff.

I'm not an expert but I believe the reason Android apps dont suck in the way that Java apps on Windows initially sucked, is that all the performance sensitive stuff like actually drawing on the screen is implemented in C/C++.

Don't you use an android phone? As in you hate java but you took a phone centered around that platform? I don't understand your hate of it. I can understand not using it, or thinking there might have been a better way to program it more efficiently at a native level, but i can't see where your rage comes from :P

I don't hate it at all really. I just don't like the base model that it uses because I don't like the flow on effects that [I perceive that] model has in terms of performance, and I haven't seen too many Java applications in Java that have dissuaded me otherwise.

I'm questioning the relevance of your dislike of java at a mental level not a technical one :P

My knowledge about Java is massively massively out of date, so you are right - it is purely an emotional response and not a rational one.

If you ignore games, mobile apps are largely the opposite of performance focused. 99% of the time they sit there doing nothing, and 1% of the time they are drawing stuff.

I'm not an expert but I believe the reason Android apps dont suck in the way that Java apps on Windows initially sucked, is that all the performance sensitive stuff like actually drawing on the screen is implemented in C/C++.

That is my understanding too.

The other difference between mobile and, say, Java on the PC, is that (I think) the JVM is always loaded and ready and waiting on mobile. On PC the average user's experience (well, mine) when doing anything in Java is 1) click a web page 2) look at the blank spot on the website wondering what is happenign while your PC chugs hard for a while 3) see the Java icon pop up in the corner and go "oh right, it's loading something in Java, that is why my browser has just locked up entirely" (maybe this is a Firefox thing, or maybe it's because my PCs are all 3+ years old and running Windows XP) 4) wait patiently for it to complete

edit: maybe we should take this to the programming thread so as not to s*** all up in mooby's job ad

Pretty sure most of the Enterprise Java stuff is use in Middleware software i.e. stuff for Oracle, mainframe and batch processing etc and not a lot to do with the UI. So pure performance won't really matter in this instance. They use more modern language for their front end stuff i.e. C# etc.

Not saying it doesn't suck (I too don't like Java) but I think the banks got themselves locked in to Java because of the DB & Hardware vendors that they used i.e. Oracle, Sun, IBM etc. So to change that now would be suicidal.

At least that's my understanding of how Java got to ingrained with the big institutions.