i'm upgrading my car, i'll get about $10,000 for my car private sale. i'm going to use a car broker probably, just tell them what i want to swap for.

I'm after something that i can trade for without much cash from my procket but with all the safety trimmings i can get into it (airbags, traction control, abs or whatever)

I'm after a 4v4 big enough to get the missus and the kid into with a load of camping gear (esky, ground sheet, tent, table, fire twiling sticks, fishing gear, tarps etc)

I'm NOT after a landcruiser or something of that size as i have to park inderground parking in milton and the city for work. Very tight spaces etc.


Can anyone tell me what models i should stear towards or stear clear of plase?

At the moment i've found

this

amd this

please note I would love a suzuki seiara but the two doors and the less room would be horrible for getting kids in and out and the camping gear etc.

any opinion and history/experience with medium wheel base 4x4 would be great.

i'll be taking this thing on camping trips and holidays very regularly, at least every couple of months. including beaches and water crossings (rainforest etc).

how many kids?

Prado/Challanger are solid 'Mid-Size' Fourby's.

just the one at the moment rev

ill check those models out, thanks.

Suzuki++ definitely if you're going to chose out of those two ^
In fact, a grand vitara is perfect for what you're describing

Don't buy a Kia

Depends on what engine size also. If you are looking for a 6 cyclinder I would look at a prado/pathfinder. If you wanted something with a bit more grunt, the discovery is pretty good. Not such a wide car, almost a foot skinnier than a cruiser but probley just as high. You can pick one up for about 8 grand.

i cant find the discovery or prado, who makes those?

the pathfinder looks just as big as a land cruiser i think...

I have that model suzuki grand vitara, it's a great all round vehicle.

just check the boot is big enough for everything you need to cart around - the boot space isn't very deep (it's tall though).

oh, look at a forester too. if all you're doing is camping there's little need for dual-range box and all.

pathfinder

i cant find the discovery or prado, who makes those?

Discovery = Land Rover Discovery
Prado = Toyota Prado

great wall of china car? they're like $20k for a 4x4.

They're s*** & break all the time but ford explorers are a piece of piss to drive, just like driving a normal car on stilts.

i cant find the discovery or prado, who makes those?

landrover
e;f;b

I have a subaru impreza. $30k new. as good a ground clearance as some of the big looking ones. nice boot. still not a really small car to park but better than the tanks. Heaps of features standard. v comfy. body shape is discrete. ie does not look like a 4wd at all. Drives very nicely thank you.
If you get a hatch you can get the roof accessory for more luggage when you need it.

Great Walls are s***. Shoddy joints, Shoddy bolts, just plain shoddy.

orbitor do you think it'll fit all the stuff i mentioned above? esky, tent, tarp, ground sheet, 2-3 bags of clothes and stuff, folding table+chairs etc.

whats a duel range box, do i need one? (is that 'low' and 'high' ? i assume that will be handy for towing and when we go 4x4ing while camping...

thanks mono!

If you can't park a full sized 4x4 in the city I guess you'd be one of those a******s in a hatchback who take up two parks heh.

Here's a 4 v 4 is this what you were asking for? :D



Edit: I have a full sized 4x4 and it gets pretty damn full even for a short camping trip. Though I put everything inside, not on top. The mid sized 4x4's are pretty low on space.

last edited by Syco at 16:18:59 07/Feb/10

the forrester and the imprezza have a "power" vs "hold" gear box option.
the forrester has better ground clearance. but is a bit more expensive
for the full camping trip a "5 door" with or without the roof accessory would probably be needed.

lol at that vid :)
The toy yoda would have weighed heaps more as well.

The toy yoda would have weighed heaps more as well.

Yeah, must have a s***tier weight distribution or something

actually that test is completely useless because it basically boils down to who had the better rubber compound for the particular surface that they were on

My dad has an Explorer and I rate it as a pretty good car. They're very well designed in terms of visibility; I feel like I can see EVERYTHING when behind the wheel of that thing. It seems pretty solid, has plenty of space yet is not a behemoth. It's piss easy to park. IIRC, they're actually made by Mazda in the same place that Mazda made Tributes. Don't quote me on that.

Challengers are also pretty good. My mate had one for a while and it was an awesome car. It seems like a pretty long car to me though, might be tough to park in cramped spaces.

^^ like when my brother & me were discussing whether his one tonner could beat my gemini in a tug of war, he said the gemini would probably win because there's f*** all weight in the rear of a one tonner cab chassis so he'd get no traction. Not really about who has more power, it's all about who can get it to the ground. (p.s. the tonner would have won because the gemini boot would have fallen to bits, geminis are s***)

yeah mono, im using redbook.com.au and the toyota doesnt have a prado listed? weird?

They call it a 'Landcruiser Prado'

on redbook, when you pick toyota from the make select box, the family select box will update and have prado in it

pathfinders are considerably smaller than land cruisers/patrols - they are medium class

a dual-range box is a gearbox with a transfer case that splits the gear ranges into two or more - usually just two. high range is for normal driving and low range is for heavier off road driving where low speed and low gearing is required

also, while parking can be a little harder with a big vehicle, I'd recommend agianst giving it too much weight in your decision because you'll get used to it and (to me at least) it seems less sensible to miss out on capacity/choice purely for that very small portion of time you spend parking. it does reduce some of your parking options by having a big car, but it's not usually an issue. for blokes anyway. if your missus is gonna be parking it a lot it might be another story.

my recommendation would be pretty any model of prado at all, or any pajero after say 2003. they are both reliable for the usual family/light-to-medium offroad use, quite nice to drive on bitumen and the diesel variants are fairly economical even while loadedup/pulling a load. fairly generous on cargo area as well

imo stay away from any of the crossover vehicles like foresters because they don't have enough clearance for the type of use you're describing, which if you get the bug for it, will soon highlight the deficiency of anything less serious than pathfinder/prado/pajero/discovery etc

and definitely stay away from ford explorers (google for serious safety problems with them, there are a few)

orbitor do you think it'll fit all the stuff i mentioned above? esky, tent, tarp, ground sheet, 2-3 bags of clothes and stuff, folding table+chairs etc.

It would be tight to fit everything on your list with the rear seats not folded down (with them down would be easy as pie). Depends on the size of the folding table/chairs. But yeah if you're carting all that stuff maybe the prado/pathfinder/paj would be better (why do they all start with p?).

If we're calling those cars 'midsize' 4wd's then the grand vitara is definitely a small 4wd!

actually that test is completely useless because it basically boils down to who had the better rubber compound for the particular surface that they were on

toy yoda owner ^^^^ :)

actually that test is completely useless because it basically boils down to who had the better rubber compound for the particular surface that they were on

Oh of course, this is the only possible reason the Toyota lost! The entire tug of war relied on what type of tyres they had on. They should have probably just tied two tyres to each other and seen which one pulled the other IMO.

I'm surprised the toyota lost. I was expecting it to win easily, then drag itself and the jeep through the wall, a preschool and then into a river.

toyota driver probably didn't lock the centre diff or something ;)

lol

I've got an 01 GV. It's pretty sweet. Handles the beach and sand pretty well so long as you stay away from deep ruts in soft sand. The V6 has good power, don't bother with the 4cyl. Timing chain tensioners are a weak point on the V6 though, so make sure it's been replaced, or if you're handy you can do it yourself - just ignore the workshop manual and leave the intake/rack/diff/oil pan in place. Cost of parts is ~200. Aside from that it's been solid.

Size wise it's on the small end of the scale. It's got enough room for me and the woman to pack heavy and be completely self sufficient (incl ensuite/shower, water jerry cans, etc), but you really need to fold the back seats down or use roof racks. Have a look at the XL7 model. It's a bit longer at the back.

It's never going to be the most capable 4wd, but it handles the beach/camping work just fine. It still has a proper transfer case, a ladder chassis and 1 solid axle. If you're keen a couple inches lift and some bigger AT tyres can be had without too much fuss, though the arches aren't big enough to go much higher than 29-30" tyres.

Around town it's fine to drive. Just a little higher than usual. The steering is light and the clutch is nice and easy. Gearbox is a bit of a tractor box though. Engine has nice power, fuel consumption is around 10L/100km with my heavy foot.

I love mine. IMO perfect balance between daily driver/weekend camper.

toyota driver probably didn't lock the centre diff or something ;)

+1, he remembered half way in thats why you see the front skid appear as it kicked in. GG

also lol hirux, get some lockers into ya ^_^

cayenne turbo or an r500

:D

oh yeah my GV is 2005 so it has the revised timing chain tensioner setup i think.

1999 to 2002 are the affected models.

If you buy one that's in that period yeah, definitely check it's had the tensioner(s) replaced.

28 1/2" tyres on mine (225/70/16 Pirelli Scorpion ATR's). Any bigger rubs on full lock or full suspension compression with stock body/suspension.

last edited by orbitor at 22:30:28 07/Feb/10

Oh or an X6M :P

haters, that video ET posted is the reason I have a nice dent in my drivers sil ;(

not quite the size of Jims beautifully contoured lines or anything, but enough to make me wish I'd finished making my rock sliders before going up there

good taste ross, good taste

Man, that Ormeau track is rough as guts isn't it. My front splash guard is still held on with cable ties. lol.

I'm pretty sure you're looking for a BMW M5 or X6

We have a Mazda Tribute, but am currently planning the upgrade.

Consdering:

Prado
Pajero
Outlander
ML 350
Discovery
Territory

Any others I should consider, and pros/cons of these from the experts?

Would love a Range Rover, but too expensive :/

Do all your purchases come complete with cans of spray on dirt?

spidz: you going four wheeld driving or what?

The ML series aren't known for quality.

Klugers seem decent

unless you're swerving on gravel, ref wheels coty 08

ML's are in the ballpark of rr sports aren't they?

I saw a mazda xr3 or something and a bmw x3 on the way to work, the boot sizes in these cars look way to small for what i want. Neither had roof racks standard either.

I wonder why people buy a 4x4 that you cant fit stuff into, unless they tow a trailer through water crossings and camping/fishing trips... is that even possible?

The Grand Vitara is a 4WD while the Sportage is an AWD from memory - both would give a different "4x4" experience. Do you want a car that can do some light to moderate 4x4 action (beach driving, through creeks, offroad tracks, etc) or do you want a car that can fit all the stuff you want in and do light 4x4 (go up bumpy tracks)?

Are you also after a car for $10,000 or will you chip in some extra?

bmw x1/3/5/6 aren't useful off road at all anyway - they're awd with a little bit of extra clearance but not meant for anything other than graded dirt/snowed/iced roads

as for the size of the X3 or similar, they're plenty big enough for 2-4 people with light gear and very economical. just depends on the size of your family and what sort of gear you take and how long you go for

and yep, taking camper trailers off road is very common, even the ones that aren't actually built for off roading. scooter's dad took his camper to cape york with us, even down the gunshot creek entry here:

http://www.cathayclassics.co.uk/images/gunshot_creek_entry.jpg

What on eath, thats goto be 45deg incline! woooahh... and there is a trailer on that back of that? thats insain.

whats the go with worrying so much about not having a specific size?

it sounds like you're going to have an assload of s*** with kids and camping gear

a land cruiser sounds exactly like what you would need

sorry if i'm bringing some logic to this thread, but it seems reh-tard

last edited by paveway at 11:09:15 08/Feb/10

I saw a mazda xr3 or something and a bmw x3 on the way to work, the boot sizes in these cars look way to small for what i want. Neither had roof racks standard either.

Never fear, you can't afford one anyway

that pic is some random one I grabbed from google images that appears to be taken around the time we went in 2006 going by the look of it. but if you replace that landcruiser with a jeep cherokee and imagine a camper trailer on the back, with a snatch strap tied to scooter's old jeep up top to prevent the trailer from flipping over onto the roof, you'd have a pic of our trip ;)

there's videos of it somewhere, not sure where though

jim that's pretty epic!

I thought you had some online Jim?

I think all the ones of the Jeep(s) going down were on film cameras but i'll have a look when I get home.

yeh I thought so too, but couldn't find where I uploaded them :(
I know I've got the original videos from other-scott's camera somewhere at home

just dropping by to say that i could do that in reverse in the hirux ^

just dropping by to say that i could do that in reverse in the hirux ^

But you'd need a particular compound tyre for the surface :D :D :D

yep, it's called a mickey thompson

That whole bank was wet slippery clay. You'd need 6 inch spikes to even get the front wheels up.

I had some poincy All Terrains on my Jeep (XJ Cherokee) and I barely had my front wheels over the slope when I started sliding all the way down, was a Fun Ride.
Dads Jeep had me attached (for the trailer) so he went down pretty smooth. IIRC Jim made it 2/3rds, Just about where that picture is, of the way down before he slid the rest.

Watch topgear south american special for pro tips on how to buy over the internet.

Also it reads as family 4v4 which i always immagined as a quake3arana mod.

last edited by skythra at 07:52:16 09/Feb/10

Sifn't

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uvx93QV1U

Intercity small parking spaces will be fine.

1. How serious are you about going off road, because even on beach driving if you get stuck you'll need a low range 4WD and most soft 4WD only have high range. And trust me people do get stuck going from the road to the waterline.

2. If soft is ok buy a winch, because I'm sick of saving you dumb asses from your own stupidity.

Suzuki Vitari the Grand model if you want comfort has proper low range gear box and still soft enough to be a comfortable mid sized car.

The Grand Vitara is a 4WD while the Sportage is an AWD from memory

Other way around. In the examples of that vintage, GV has centre diff where the Sportage has a traditional transfer case. Both have high/low range. Sportage is actually quite a capable 4wd. Dad had one (02 model iirc) until last year and I took it offroad on a farm a few times and it handled everything with ease. (he even said I could borrow it!)

The interior was very plastic-y and rear seat comfort wasn't the best. The boot was quite capacious and the back seats did fold down etc. The only real problem in the ~7yr of ownership was a small oil leak developing from the engine and the power antenna failed.

Dad got rid of his and got a forester xt, as his priorities changed and needed a little less offroad ability and a little more comfort.

Cant find any prado's for under 10k that are a decent year (2002+). Looks like they hold their value fuking well, would have to drop back to a 1998 or around abouts, really dont want to do that, considering im in a 2004 model car. Really want to keep something with relativly low K's. (aka, no where near 200-300k)

Sigh... so its down to the

Kia Sportage
Nissian Pathfinder
or the
Suzuki Grand Vitara

last edited by gamer at 18:18:14 09/Feb/10

Knock the Kia off the list right now. You now have 2 to chose from.

For a first time 4wd, with light 4wd use, i'd give a nod towards the Suzie GV.
I'm not 100% familiar with the workings of the Pathfinder though...

I probably wouldn't buy a Prado, they run a lot of hilux/smaller 4x4 gear in a larger/heavier body with a more powerful motor. Sounds like a perfect mix for things to brake if you go hard on it one weekend.

they are pretty reliable and well built which is why they hold value quite well

I had issues with mine, but it was a fairly uncommon airbag suspension model and the airbags failed at anything more than moderate offroad

spidz: you going four wheeld driving or what?

The ML series aren't known for quality.

We do a bit, but we won't be doing anything serious or anything the Tribute can't already do, and the Tribute is hardly a genuine offroader!

My mate just bought an ML and really likes it, well his wife does. so that means mine wants one. I like the idea of european built instead of Japanese and the Touregs etc don;t have 7 seats.

ML's are in the ballpark of rr sports aren't they?

Nope, not even the same game. ML's are surprisingly cheap. I'd love a Rangey Sport, but it is just too much moolah

they are pretty reliable and well built which is why they hold value quite well

Do they sell a different one in America? Toyota and Nissan 4x4 values over there don't hold very well at all compared to their locals and the euros.

Has anyone got any experience with Outlanders? I know they aren't much good for off road (?) but is there anything wrong with the current model? Want a new car for the wife/kids....

oh spidz you're talking brand new? i think the current ML is a lot better than the old one. bit of a big ugly tank though!

tbh for 7 seat i'd be looking at a Volvo XC90 or Disco 4 - speaking of which if you dig the Rangie you'd probably like the Disco?

ML 350 td and rr sport tdv6 are both ~90k

Outlanders are not 4wd's. If you want a car for the wife and kids, get a car.

That said, brothers GF has one, comfortable to ride in. Goes all right on power. Looks like it would have a heap of space, but doesn't really seem to take much to fill it up. I think my Mum's Honda Jazz can take more gear (Seats folded.)

speaking of which if you dig the Rangie you'd probably like the Disco?

I'd defiantly +1 the Disco, but you're not going to find a good one for the ~10k mark.
Edit; Woops talking to Spidz. If he's willing to spend more you could get a good Disco for sure.

last edited by Scooter at 23:02:54 09/Feb/10

I'm prolly gonna get rid of my patrol - apart from a couple of light scuff marks it's just like it came out of the showroom yesterday - only driven to church on sundays too

then buy a hilux and show up teq - again

imo you'd be better off pricewise getting a liberty or something like that and hiring a massive landcruiser for the extremely minimal times you'd ever 4wd

you'd probably save a few hundred a year in tyres let alone other extra costs which you would do better spending elsewhere

IMHO go for the pathfinder. They are a very tough little truck. My older pathfinder (97) has being up and down most hills at ormeu, puddles at glass house and up thr telegraph track up to thr cape. It has been rolled onto it's side, pulled back up, turned the motor back on and it didn't skip a beat.

The only thing wrong with it is that it is a bit of a feul guzzler and probley worse than the Suzi. I suggest finding one at a car yard and taking one for a test drive and seeing if it fits into your park at work.

yeah fuel consumption will be heaps worse than the suzuki, pathfinders weigh an extra 400kg and have a bigger engine.

oh yeah, I'm talking new.

I like the Disco, but the mrs hates it and its probably too serious an offroader for our needs so I can't be bothered arguing with her.

will check out the Volvo, forgot about them!

I think the volvo's are in the same boat as X1/3/5/6 in terms of off road ability - no low range, uneven distribution between front/rear and no lockable centre diff

might be too soft for you?

If you like the Outlander you might like the Challanger. Similar to drive (Both Mitsu) and pretty capable off road. Still good onroad. Pretty good price for a Mid-4WD.

It doesnt look or feel like a serious offroader, but down the road when it's a bit older and you want to get into some more serious stuff, it can be modded to keep up with some of the big boys.

I would factor into the cost of buying one getting a slight Suspension (2in) and get some very good Shocks (the ones that come standard are a bit of a let down.)

and the ABS killswitch mod is a must :)

Oh yeah, thats the first thing you should do if you plan to take it off road.

GumbyNoTalent

WAT?

WHERE DID HE COME FROM?

Jim,

Not too soft at all, we drive a Mazda Tribute that can do most of the stuff we would do in the future. We're not massive offroaders at all.