Hooray, about time. Send her packing. That is all.

as much as i dislike her

springborg... srsly? you'd vote for that guy?

asif qlder's will vote the coalition back in. memories aren't that short i hope.
qld nationals == corruption.

Letting a woman run a government is like giving a gun to a chimpanzee and she has proved that. But then again you have that lifeless sack of crap Springborg who just f***ing useless. Once again politics proving to be a battle of who is worse.

I know, our choices are lousy. Bring back the grinning idiot I say. At least he listened to the public.

Of course, someone could form a QGL party. Legislate free insurance for lans.

800m surplus to $1.6b deficit in one year. Qld loses it's AAA credit rating. Only Australian state without one. No end to spending in sight.

Not a bad effort.

lols, springborg:

new richie roo (michael palmer) son of mega richie roo (clive palmer) isnt really helping the coalition either:

although i spose with all his money he could fix our credit crisis*



* which is no fault of the current governemnt, you have to spend money to keep people employed

last edited by Spook at 12:14:50 23/Feb/09

Haha sounds like you guys have quite a decision on your hands!

Glad it's not us, though we'll have our own battle of the bads soon enough I suppose...

yeh I aint voting for the borg

what are the preferences for the minor parties?

I'm only voting so I don't get a fine.

i am voting for
1. Stewie
2. Homer Simpson
3. Bender

Thank god. About time she was put on the chopping block

f***, now I'll have to change my enrollment details.

sif vote stewie ahead of bender

choices choices. This is the first election where I find both parties utterly pathetic and have no idea how to vote, isn't there a marijuana party or something? Donkey'ing just seems childish these days :P

last edited by qmass at 12:53:07 23/Feb/09

Vote for Heath Ledger's ghost.

don't you just have to show up? i mean so long as they tick your name off the box
draw a hairy ballsaq on it and put a tick next to that, drop it in the box

better yet, take a photo and attach it

This election is s***, simply because, as everyone else has stated, both major parties are s***. *sigh*

in for hairy ballsaq option

Bye bye, Bligh on March 21!

Spook - What you're forgetting is the extra interest Queensland now has to pay as a result of losing its AAA credit rating.

springborg... srsly? you'd vote for that guy?

Over Premier Bligh of the rum rebellion? Over hard hat anna? ABSOLUTELY.

Spook - What you're forgetting is the extra interest Queensland now has to pay as a result of losing its AAA credit rating.

its the lesser of two evils:

if qld hadnt spent the money on new infrastructures and people were losing their jobs as a result all you h8ters would be jumping up and down about that instead:

newsflash, theres a financial crash happening everywhere, it cant be avoided

yes, anna is no petey (<3), but really, what option do we have?

the coalition are crooks and a joke, theres no one else to vote for;

Ahh voting time.

The smaller pineapple always wins

uhm, people are still losing their jobs...

Wow Springborg what a f***ing gimp... the d******* has been in politics since he was 23 and is utterly clueless about what normal people deal with day to day. To top it off he is probably the only poly in Australia that thinks talking in a big stern voice lends him credibility and authority.

You know I could over look that crap if once just f***ing once the c******* had something positive to say. f*** he could talk about how nice the weather has been lately or something.... f*** anything at all would be better than his constant negative bitching bulls***.

Actually that is a pretty across the board pet hate of mine with all polies. It is so f***ing rare for any of them to compliment or agree with their opposite numbers. Now any normal person could easily see that not all ideas from every political party are totally bad, sure many are but I refuse to believe that they all are.

So to watch some c******* every week get on Tv and slam 100% of what the other party is doing just make him look like a f***wit. I mean seriously if I ever heard a poly get up on tv and say something to the effect of ... thats a great idea that so-and-so came up with or an excellent policy, I swear their credibility with me would skyrocket.

IMO ... vote for the recreational fishers ...

Seriously as if blame a guy in a tinnie for ruining the bay, it's not the trawlers or sewage or industry waste.

I mean seriously if I ever heard a poly get up on tv and say something to the effect of ... thats a great idea that so-and-so came up with or an excellent policy, I swear their credibility with me would skyrocket.

I couldn't agree more.

That's the whole point of Opposition. To oppose and point out faults in their grand plans.

And Bligh and her bunch of incompetent seat warmers make so many monumental f*** ups you don't have to look very far to point one out. Otheriwse her spin doctors just paint it all rosy.

What do you expect the Opposition to do? Slap her on the back?

isn't she the one that was joking about getting gang raped?

isn't she the one that was joking about getting gang raped?

Statistically 9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape. I have posted this before but thought I would do it again.

That's the whole point of Opposition. To oppose and point out faults in their grand plans.

No it's not. That's the problem with, not the point of our system.
They are meant to support the good measures and oppose the bad ones, not blindly oppose everything.

Hooray, about time. Send her packing. That is all.

with an alternative like that? get f***ed.

prolly be better to stick with "tell a lie" bligh.

They are meant to support the good measures and oppose the bad ones, not blindly oppose everything.

But nothing Captain Bligh(t) has given Queensland is good...

I cannot believe that given Bligh's total dereliction of financial management (remembering she was Treasurer for a good period of the last 2 terms) people think Springborg could be worse.

Why, despite the fact that Bligh has lost our AAA credit rating, is there any reason to vote for her?

NSW is a total basket case and still has its AAA, what does that make Qld?

I realy dont like Bligh, but thats mainly because of her voice and the f***en attitude she has whenever she speaks.

But f***en springborg is worse, he was being interviewed on ABC radio the other day, he was having a cry about the budget deficit, and the reporter said something along the lines of, "surely the global financial crisis had alot to do with that" and his reply was but the govenment is spending recklessly, but then when asked what spending he would cut, he said "oh none", d*******.

A few months ago he was going on about having too many public servants for something and that they need to get rid of some, no he is saying they wont be getting rid of any govenment employees.

Surely either Party can find a better leader than they currently have.

NSW is a total basket case and still has its AAA, what does that make Qld?

Mines shutting left right and centre, airlines beginning to pull the plug on services, severe water shortages combined with a weather 'cycle' that will continue to render the northern 1/3 of the country unusable hindering tourism.. another huge money earner for the state.. A state that is attracting a huge amount of people to it but is unable to cope with the needs housing, transport and health wise.. Yeah i'd say Qld is in a great deal of strife.. If i was a bank i'd be pretty dammed hesitant to invest aswell

Because credit ratings are a measure of good government ?

Hell what makes credit ratings some bible ? What were the credit ratings of the US finacial institutions before they crashed ?

people think Springborg could be worse

Mr Palmer, gave what $550,000 to the Liberal and National parties. And he flew Springborg around the place on his private jet and helecopters ? And now his son going for election.

What happens when Queensland's richest man wants to redevelop a wetland, mine a Whitsundays beach or whatever ? ... would he remind Springborg who supported him ? who paid all that money for him to be elected ? ... would that possibly change a decision made by a Nats State Gov ? I simply don't know, have they learnt anything from the Joh and Russ days ?

Mines shutting left right and centre, airlines beginning to pull the plug on services, severe water shortages combined with a weather 'cycle' that will continue to render the northern 1/3 of the country unusable hindering tourism.. another huge money earner for the state.. A state that is attracting a huge amount of people to it but is unable to cope with the needs housing, transport and health wise.. Yeah i'd say Qld is in a great deal of strife.. If i was a bank i'd be pretty dammed hesitant to invest aswell

springborg can fix it!

and as for the palmers, dodgy, dodgy, dodgy (i better be careful here, i wouldnt want to get sued)

You know infi that kind of obvious however my point is that not every single idea a part comes up with is either bad or wrong. So for an opposition party to slam 100% of their opponents ideas is ridiculous and really doesn't do their credibilty any good at all.

Take your good self for example everything you say is based 100% within liberal party lines. No one in there right f***ing mind is going to give your opinion the time of day because it's skewed so completely in favour of one party and everything they do and say reguardless of if it's actually right,wrong or otherwise. It really comes off as f*** the country our agenda is more important and that agenda is to firmly in stand the way of the opposition no matter if it's good for the country or not.

I f***ing hate the liberals but in saying that I absolutely supported a number of their ideas. I have always been a labor supporter but have seen a few things in recent times that I either have some serious questions about or just find totally outragous.

Now if I was a narrow minded tw@t blinded by party lines I would never be able to make any kind of informed choice about anything simply because it's the party way or no way. That kind of attitude in the running of this country is so f***ing counter productive and serves to do nothing but hold us all back.

Bottom line here really this. When K.Rudd says we want to do blah blah blah we already know that the opposition is going to say it's crap without any real thought. f*** they might of actually spent millions of man hours looking into it or not even heard of the idea the response is still going to be the same. They might as well have an anamatronic micky f***ing mouse standing on the steps of parliament with a constant loop of the government is s***... beep... the goverment is wrong... beep... the government is out of touch... beep.

As a citizen of this country I am f***ing sick of it and all the petty f***ing bulls*** between the a******s that can't see past their own parties f***ing nose. You want to be a great leader or have a great political party then you absolutely have to have an open mind and the fortitude to support good policies even if they are from outside your own party.

This btw is not a stab at any given party nor am I suggesting that current governments both state and federal are without their faults. This is just me being f***ing fed up with bulls*** from d*******s in politics that have a greater allegiance to their f***ing party and party mates than the people of this country.

with the choices on hand i really dont want either party in office. the solution is quite simple however. Either party would be FAR more attractive if their leaders were not their leaders, hence i GENUINELY hope both bligh(t) and The borg lose their own seats, and we have a solution with either party being in office.

The'Borg is a great bloke but his Party is new and lacks the support Interstate.
The worst that could happen is if they get elected then the Federal Parties start to stir things up and we get factional fights at time when stable government will be badly needed.
Will be funny to see how many more seats the QLD Libs (oops they are LNP now) will lose.

Labor deserve to be tossed out but there really is no alternative Government for QLD.
Labor will lose some seats and possibly to the Greens.
The Nationals will gain a few too.
Labor with a smaller Majority.

I love Election nights. Always fun watching Members squirm.
Of course ABC will have the best coverage.

So for an opposition party to slam 100% of their opponents ideas is ridiculous and really doesn't do their credibilty any good at all.

they don't slam all their ideas. that's just what the media reports, and in turn what you consume.

Mr Palmer, gave what $550,000 to the Liberal and National parties. And he flew Springborg around the place on his private jet and helecopters ? And now his son going for election.

can't be any worse than anna bligh holidaying at ros kelly's waterfront sydney harbour apartment the week before a decision on a tender, of which kelly's chairman of the company that ultimately wins.

CRACKING DOWN ON TITS @ INDY GTFO

that too^^

yeah cause thats something thats never happen in QLD under the national party now is it?

yeah cause thats something thats never happen in QLD under the national party now is it?

Don't you worry about that.

Anyone have details of absentee voting? Fkn elections...I really do not care.

odds just in
labor $1.55
coalition $2.40

looks like its political wilderness for the opposition for a few more years!

here I'll be captain obvious here and point out yet again that those opposition d*******s won't win a chook in a church raffle while The Borg is the mouth piece for the collective of fools.

We need more question time like this:

That's the whole point of Opposition. To oppose and point out faults in their grand plans.

No it's not. That's the problem with, not the point of our system.
They are meant to support the good measures and oppose the bad ones, not blindly oppose everything.

+1

you are such a negative c*** info lol

wow you can say what you like about Keating but f*** me that guy knew how to sling s*** at pretty much anyone. lol

NSW is a total basket case and still has its AAA, what does that make Qld?

this s*** completely boggles the mind. how the f*** is queensland in such bad shape when nsw is run by a some bloke who has been in politics for 2 years.

also,


costello for pm imo

haha typo

johnny doesn't know what to do

keating won a single election. after that the public had a gutful of him.

and he is still loosing the 1996 election, poor guy.

they don't slam all their ideas. that's just what the media reports, and in turn what you consume.

With the exception of when they have to vote on whether or not they all get a pay rise. That's about the only time you'll see them all agree on something.

Except of course for the token "I don't want an increase in salary" / "I'm going to donate all the extra to so-and-so" guy that only says that in a vein attempt to win some popularity.

and he is still loosing the 1996 election, poor guy.

yeah read that in the latham diaries. latheam would ring up for a friendly chat and keating would rant his ear off for 2 hours about how he could have beat howard HAHA LOSER!

yeh but keating was an aussie bloke, the sorta bloke that'd pat the queen on the back to show she's an alright bit of fluff & not at all stuck up. whereas howard is some kinda stunted subhuman, more suited to backstabbing from under the shadow of frazer. am i getting this politiking right?! ;D

yeah that's sort of how they got the term "howard battlers" right?

heh aussie bloke, whatever

no aussie bloke would use the word quorum in an insult. no hetrosexual aussie bloke atleast.

Yeah keating sucked so frigging horribly he lost his seat ... oh wait a sec that was Howard that became so reviled for his smug arrogant and sneaky as a s*** house rat attitude that lost him his own seat. Not to mention a blatant attempt to f*** every average worker in the country.

Btw when the Libs point the finger at the aparent troubles labor caused in the late 80's early 90's you have to love how there is never any mention of the market crash in 87. Which no sprised f***ed some of our biggest trading partners.... wonder if that had anything to do with the s*** state we found ourselves in.

i don't think anyone ever doubted keating was gay. i mean his wife looked like a man or a shemale.

L = Little or
N = no
P = policy's

lol infi

Btw when the Libs point the finger at the aparent troubles labor caused in the late 80's early 90's you have to love how there is never any mention of the market crash in 87. Which no sprised f***ed some of our biggest trading partners.... wonder if that had anything to do with the s*** state we found ourselves in.

except queensland hasn't had a recession in atleast the last 22 years.

now suddenly queensland is in a (likely) recession, in deficit and has lost its AAA credit rating (which will add another $200 million to the deficit). thats without mentioning the mess that is state services (like queensland health or power supply), that pretty much falls at the feet of queensland labor.

voting for labor at a state level doesn't really seem to make to me, because regardless of how the lnp goes, they couldn't do much worse. even if they did the exact opposite of bligh, they do better. i wouldn't vote for a useless government simply because the opposition was useless, regardless of which party it was.

Howard looked scared s***less in that video. I dont care what you say about keating, whenever I see video's like that he seems like he was a pretty smart guy, where as howard always just looks like a f***wit. Without costello he would have been f***ed.

My point nf is that the f***ing libs love to point the finger at labor over s*** that in reality they had f*** all control over. It matters not if it is state or federal politics if some s*** happens somehwere else around the world and our itty bitty country gets sucked into a black hole with the rest of the world it's aparently the fault of labor.

Just saw the news a little bit ago and predictably Springborg the f***head is spouting his usual s*** about labor sucking. I wouldn't actually mind if he just bothered to add something that sounded even half way reasonable as a plan to tackle the situation. The sum total of what comes out of his trap is 90% bitching 10% wtfbbq and f***ing 0% substance which equals f***ing zero credibility.

Australian politics has degenerated into nothing more than a mud slinging fight and it's f***ing bulls***. There really isn't anything of any real substance for the voter to truely sink their teeth into and certainly f*** all to inspire people to pull together to work something out for the country as a whole.

My vote will go to someone I can respect and being a little bitch or an arrogant c*** doesn't earn respect.

last edited by Taipan at 21:21:51 23/Feb/09

I never vote for major parties, cause they don't deserve it. Depends, but I'll either vote independent or green.

However, Anna is keep me and mine in a job doing all sorts of infrastructure projects over QLD. Go Anna!

sorry taipan, but just who is at fault for queensland losing its AAA rating? just who is at fault for the deficit?

i haven't seen the thing you are talking about but it sounds like the borg is right on the money.

There is a great deal more to this election then just an AAA rating.. It will not be the solution to everything that plagues the state...

no point in voting independant without an upper house imo.

look nf no one is going to say Queensland hasn't had a few pretty f***ing notable issue that SHOULD of been fixed before now. My f***ing issue is that any f***ing moron can pick the holes in something and sadly thats all the libs ever seem to do. They bitch and moan about s*** we already know while not offering f*** all in the way of a fix.

I swear even if they had a perfect fix for the situation you wouldn't hear s*** about because the prevailing attitude is to slander the government like a pack of f***ing grade 7 kids. I am sorry but I refuse to believe that anyone that spends that much time slinging s*** has enough time left over to actually work on something genuinely constructive.

Offer me something to look forward to with some positivity, show me what you can do nto what you believe the other party can't do.

Bligh said no to Anzac day.

'nuff said.

Considering what a f***up health is, and seeing those f***ups first hand, it will be a cold day in hell that I vote for that bitch, opposition is just as useless but if there is any chance they can improve things a little rather than letting it continue to be the laughing stock of the nation then I'll give them a tick.

I hate state governments so much.

sorry taipan, but just who is at fault for queensland losing its AAA rating? just who is at fault for the deficit?

it's no one's fault. let's just wring our hands and all feel terrible about this awful situation....

but don't do anything about it, that would require a tough decision or two. just terrible this deficit, isn't it... *wrings hands*

There really isn't anything of any real substance for the voter to truely sink their teeth into and certainly f*** all to inspire people to pull together to work something out for the country as a whole.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm sick of hearing the opposition people living up to their name and just blindly pointlessly being objectionable to everything. Don't tell me the other bunch are a******s because all the things they're doing are wrong, tell me what you're going to do RIGHT.

I want to vote against the people that are building all these stupid new tunnels and roads and everything. Who should I be hatin' on for that?

is it that the opposition never has anything positive to contribute, or just that the media never reports it

http://i42.tinypic.com/dxy91k.png

is it that the opposition never has anything positive to contribute, or just that the media never reports it

My guess is a little from column A and a little from column B.

Australian politics has degenerated into nothing more than a mud slinging fight and it's f***ing bulls***.

Dude! Are you telling me you've only just realized this now?

Bligh uses botox.

Anybody that injects there face with poison fails at life and shouldn't be in any position of power.

What a scrag.

chub, imagine her without it though... srsly..

I want to vote against the people that are building all these stupid new tunnels and roads and everything. Who should I be hatin' on fo

why? i know tunnels aren't the greatest solution because they aren't expandable, but it's f***ing something and more roads and bridges are exactly what we need

also, that is council elections

i dont mind a bit of bligh gear

shes looking pretty good atm imo;

also anyone who hates tunnels, hates fixing brisbane traffic

at $5 a pop one way to use them, i sure as f*** won't be using them

same as that bridge over to southbank at the end of hale st, would be perfect but they want to charge something ridiculous to use it

business types and trucks will pay to use them, that means they will be off my free roads!

springborg... srsly? you'd vote for that guy?

I reckon he's brain damaged.

Do you remember when Anna Bligh was going to introduce recycled water into our drinking supply just befolre Christmas. She got one bad poll and backflipped.

She hasn't got a leadership bone in her body.

dont you mean she listens to what the people say?

i think that makes her a good leader;

well given it was LNP policy all along, i would more call it a backflip.

LNP has policies?

i know they are very good with websites!

Maybe it's time to start a QGL party since everyone here has a way to fix all the problems in the world.

^ don't worry, once we work out warp drive and the Vulcans get here we'll be right for a society without money troubles.

Do the tax payers have to pay for the millions of f***ing painful ads we see on TV??? For both parties?

no they are payed for with bribes sponsor monies. :D

The LNP
Liberal + National + Palmer

I heard Palmers son is running in a seat too.
Though hes likely to lose it gives him a profile and blind freddy can see where thats headed.

QGL Party

Queensland Government Legends/Leaders/Losers/Lesbos

Where is it headed then? The Senate? So you think you can dance?

What profile does running in a losing seat give a millionaire's son who already can buy whatever profile he needs?

Thats how you get credibility.

Think about it.. Billionaires son joins Political Party that his father is huge contributer to and you think hes going to be mailing letters to little old ladies ?
He's there for the 'borgs job.

Yeah an 18 year old for premier. That's even more ludicrous than having a 31 year old as treasurer.

why? i know tunnels aren't the greatest solution because they aren't expandable, but it's f***ing something and more roads and bridges are exactly what we need

Because its inevitable we'll need mass transit and we should start building it now before its too late and we end up like Los Angeles or something - a concrete jungle that looks like s*** because every spare square centimeter has a road on it, and it still can't cope with the traffic AT ALL.

Compared to Euro cities that evolved before cars it's just no contest what works better. Roads are practically an evolutionary dead end. Seriously, being in LA just makes me feel sick - even SF, its just not possible to get anywhere without a car. As opposed to, say, almost anywhere in Europe, where I've gotten to the most bizarre far-out places on public transport without even speaking the language in half the places.

I agree that having some extra tunnels and bridges would be good (hey also, if they could build a bridge from UQ to west end that actual cars could go over that'd be f***ing handy), but starting work on a good mass transit system is something they should do now - especially while we're in recession IMO, think of all the jobs it'd create whilst at the same time creating valuable infrastructure that will future-proof our city for years to come!@#

Bring on the metro, baby!

Well, a Brisbane metro is being planned I'm pretty sure. I pretty much agree with Trog, I've always thought the council spending huge amounts of money on busses is wasteful, a decent rail system or metro system would be far better. Busses still have to rely on general traffic most of the time, they don't ease the problem enough.

Some American friends who have visited and who come from cities where there's no rail at all are amazed by our minimal rail system, so it's definitely better than nothing. But they need to expand it more. And also agreeing with Trog that a bridge from UQ to West End for normal cars would be great .. at the moment you have to go all the way into the city, or across the Indro bridge and all the way around. I'm sure it'd cut out a heap of traffic if people could shortcut straight across.

Creating tunnels and new bridges is cool, but tolling them isn't. They're meant to help the traffic problems, but tolling them (especially at such high costs) is going to make people not want to use them. Way to help the people!

Edit: Link about the Brisbane subway: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24459198-3102,00.html

last edited by Saint at 16:58:31 25/Feb/09

Saint; whoa hold up there buddy, are you saying people aren't going to use tunnels because of tolls?
THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED ANYWHERE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!@!@

oh except in every tunnel in Sydney, hence I agree with what Saint has said.
no one uses the cross city tunnels and the lane cove tunnel is still a joke, it's ridiculously expensive and I hope the private operators go belly up real soon because they're money grubbing c***s.

Yeah I kind of agree with trog there. I have been to london many times over the years and yet never set foot inside a car while moving around London it self. You just can't beat a good public transit system they are so much less hassle to use than f***ing around with your own car in traffic and then parking bs.

The list of benefits is pretty much as long as your arm. However for it really to work it absolutely has to run pretty much everywhere otherwise people will be using their cars.

Public transport is s*** in brisbane. It takes 50 times longer to get anywhere and you have to sit next to some sweaty fat c*** or someone with loud headphones plus you gotta walk to and from the station.

Bridges FTW, the goodwill bridge is the s*** for me. Instead of parking in the city I can park at southbank for free all day and go straight over to QUT.

While we're on the subject of transport, LOL LNP!

Ms Simpson said the State Government had a long list of orders for new six-car train sets, made up of four powered cars and two trailer cars, to be delivered over the next eight years.
"The LNP will move to amend these orders so that trailer cars are manufactured and delivered first so they can be added to six-car sets already in service," she said.
"By prioritising trailer cars, 78 existing sets can be converted to seven car sets, which can carry about 100 additional passengers - a ten per cent increase in existing capacity."
Ms Simpson said seven car sets will service existing platforms with their first and last doors locked with in-cab signal displays installed.
"This is an interim measure and as trailer car orders are filled and powered cars are supplied, loaned trailer cars can be returned to their permanently assigned sets."
The readjustment of these orders is expected to cost $5 million.

There a so many f***ing things wrong with this its laughable.
1) All of the citytrain platforms serviced by six-car sets are...six cars long.
2) How f***ing pointless is it to disrupt the construction timetables of the rollingstock scheduled to be delivered - I'd rather a brand new, usable, 3-car self powered train that can do sweeper runs to pick up excess patronage than f*** us over for another 4 years with these 7-car idiocies
3) One of the key causes of delays on the citytrain system is excessive dwell-times at stations due to only two sets of doors. You're now going to try and send an entire carriage of people out a single door? Get f***ing real.

I lost ALL faith in the LNP's ability to answer transport issues the day I read this. Oh, here's another gem:

Mr Springborg said more and more commuters were driving to and parking their cars at train stations, but in many stations throughout the network, there just wasn't the space for cars to park."This creates frustration not just for commuters but also for residents living near train stations who can find their streets clogged with cars," he said.
"An LNP State Government will spend $50 million over four years to provide for at least 3000 car parks at park and ride facilities at train stations in outer suburbs, along with increased feeder buses at stations closer to the city.
"A full audit of parking spaces around train stations would be conducted to determine what unused land is available at station precincts, what nearby housing blocks could be purchased and what underutilised car parking land could be sold off."

Park and Ride is s***. It doesn't solve the problem, its like battling obesity by punching more holes in your belt. The money needs to be spent on forcing QR and BT to kiss and make up, and place nicely together. I have three bus-routes which go from my in and around the Bulimba area and pass within 500m of the Norman Park train station. If these busses took a 2 minute diversion they could unload an entire busload of people onto a transit system with high-capacity and a dedicated right of way. Building more park and ride is like widening roads, it doesn't solve the problem it just induces further demand and delays the inevitable. Multi-level suburban park'n'rides like this beast in Colorado:
http://www.ozarchitecture.com/user_files/file_2649.jpg

Not many cities are the size of Brisbane City.
Busses can be moved to where they are needed quickly Trains/Rail cant.
Lengthening trains will require lengthening Station Platforms.
We need More busses.

We've got a traffic problem no argument there but building more tunnels and roads ultimatly leads to more cars.
Maybe the Financial Crisis will lessen the traffic, at least for a while.

Booting out the government because you dont like their transport policy is a bit silly because you are going to get a new government with no policy.
How is that better ?

The bus fleet should be expanded by double. With all these new tunnels and busways they should be exploited and funded to the max by the State Government.

Alas the Labor government funds f*** all and allows BCC to carry the can. How convenient.

Busses can be moved to where they are needed quickly Trains/Rail cant.
Lengthening trains will require lengthening Station Platforms.

When you have trains/rail, everything else just builds itself around your rail network

Keeping a Government you dont like at all is a much better idea.

When you have trains/rail, everything else just builds itself around your rail network

Yes, let's build a subway, knock everything down and start over, building everything up around the stations shall we?*

*For the record, I support a subway. While one has been discussed, it'll probably be a long time coming. Just the train line to Redcliffe.

trains will never service the majority of the brisbane population, its just far too sprawled out for that to ever happen.

buses are slightly better, but unless you are heading to the city they are hopelessly slow. the fact that buses take 5x longer to get anywhere than a car does when you aren't heading to the city pretty much excludes it from ever becoming a replacement for cars. for cross city travel, nobody with a choice would take the bus.

also, in general service driving a car is no worse than catching a bus from an enviromental point of view. a bus is almost never full (remember they run all day), so any advantage of mass transport in peak times is destroyed the service running all day long. its also makes no economic sense, as most services run at a loss. buses are subsidised up the wazoo, yet personal transport is taxed to the point where it makes money for the government (the money doesn't just go back towards roads).

so imo, build the bridges, tunnels and highways. its money better spent.

trains will never service the majority of the brisbane population, its just far too sprawled out for that to ever happen.

I dunno, after seeing all the new apartments at least near me and in/near the city it looks like the population density has massively increased within 3-5km of the city centre

trains will never service the majority of the brisbane population, its just far too sprawled out for that to ever happen.

buses are slightly better, but unless you are heading to the city they are hopelessly slow. the fact that buses take 5x longer to get anywhere than a car does when you aren't heading to the city pretty much excludes it from ever becoming a replacement for cars. for cross city travel, nobody with a choice would take the bus.

Exactly - so why not use a flexible system such as busses to feed into the lines?

I dunno, after seeing all the new apartments at least near me and in/near the city it looks like the population density has massively increased within 3-5km of the city centre

And the fact that it is almost suburbia all the way to the Gold Coast and north to Caboluture tells me the suburban sprawl is increasing as fast or faster.

The problem with roads is that if you build bigger better roads, the number of cars fills to the capacity of the road.

Maybe they need to have a CBD road tax like Singapore ?

I thought London was the one commonly cited for having a CBD tax? I wasn't aware Singapore also had one. Maybe the reduction of the speed to 40km is the step in a CBD tax direction.

last edited by Triamks at 19:28:56 25/Feb/09

Exactly - so why not use a flexible system such as busses to feed into the lines?

for the reasons i said in the next paragraph. that and the fact that adding a service-change in the mix only makes the travel time problem worse. the buses and trains aren't competitive with a bridge or a tunnel, or something like an inner city bypass. most people aren't traveling to/from the city. most (but not all) of the traffic in the inner city area is caused by people trying to get through it to the other side.

hence tunnels, bridges and bypasses are a bloody good idea. ring roads, too. leave buses to what they suit best, the elderly, school kids, the mentally unstable and the unemployed. they don't need to be anywhere on time, and when they get there they are generally unwanted anyway.

haha thats a bit harsh a lot of commuters use them too.

for the reasons i said in the next paragraph. that and the fact that adding a service-change in the mix only makes the travel time problem worse. the buses and trains aren't competitive with a bridge or a tunnel, or something like an inner city bypass. most people aren't traveling to/from the city. most (but not all) of the traffic in the inner city area is caused by people trying to get through it to the other side.

I have to travel from Builmba to Toowong every morning, and it is far quicker to travel via drive to Norman Park and then two trains that it is to battle:

• Wynnum Road


• Shafston Ave


• Story Bridge


• Ann Street


• Roma Street


• Milton Road


• High St/Moggil Road

Its a f*** load cheaper too.

Regardless of how you view commuters and other users of public transport, the fact remains that individuals driving everywhere is unsustainable. I could barely give two s***s about greenhouse emissions or environmental sustainability, but if you keep building networks around cars and only cars you're going to end up like LA - highways EVERYWHERE and nonstop congestion.


last edited by exo at 20:07:17 25/Feb/09

You are heading to just outside the inner city though, which is fair enough.

I used to do a similarish drive, bayside to near the RCH on the north-side. That involved wynnum road, lytton road, story bridge, cutting right through the valley. Even with a single train, it was faster to drive.

Yeah it was more expensive, but what you pay for a train ticket isn't reflective of the real cost. If twice as many people took the train, you'd probably see a reversal in which was cheaper.

First road tunnel = mostly council $ (NSBT)
second road tunnel = mostly state $ (Airport Link)
Third road tunnel = they're hoping for a mix of council + federal funding (northern link).


Sure its not sustainable to just keep on building roads, but anyone who thinks that building more roads isn't PART of a congestion reduction strategy is clueless.

At a community consultation session one of the consultants was telling me that they were getting abused by someone who believed we should only be building public transport projects not road projects and was asking why on earth we should build the road project. Conversation then followed:

Consultant "how far from your work do you live?"

Woman "about 1.5km"

Consultant "how do you get to work?"

Woman "I drive"

Consultant "how does your husband get to work?"

Woman "he drives his own car"

Consultant "and how far does he travel?"

Woman "about the same"

Consultant "and that's why we have to build road projects."

No matter what choice people have, bus, rail, walk, cycle many just want to drive. PT is part of the solution but in a country like Australia it will almost certainly never be the solution on its own.

Oh and just to clarify my point about the tunnels being part of a comprehensive solution:

South East Busway
Northern Busway (Hospital to Kedron) - further extensions in planning
Eastern Busway
Ellenor Schonell Bridge
New pedestrian bridge in the CBD
King George Square Busway station + connection to the Inner Northern Busway
Inner City Rail study to kick off later in the year (both sides are in favour of it fyi, they just think the staging and locations should be different)

Anyone who thinks Brisbane is only building road projects has blinkers on.

Getting a bus to a train station....actually...having any form of changeover is just a JOKE. If your bus is 5 min late then you have to wait for 20-30 min for the next bus many times (this is travelling from North side to wynnum).

I love the bus now to work. I can catch a bus every 10 min to right outside where I work! When the northern busway kicks in....whoa! That said, I wish I lived a little closer to a train station....15 min walk is just not worth it when I have a bus 5-7 min away.

They basically need more services in peak times....7-930 3-6. Problem is I doubt many bus drivers want to do a split shift with a 3-4 hour lunch break in between shifts......

I also wish there was a straight line bike lane/way all the way to the city. There are heaps of lanes and ways around the place.....but none of them link up to go all the way to the city! 4-5km ride to and from work would be a peice of piss!

Anyone who thinks Brisbane is only building road projects has blinkers on.

I never said that they were - my points were related to capacity and frequency of busses running on surface streets.

Getting a bus to a train station....actually...having any form of changeover is just a JOKE. If your bus is 5 min late then you have to wait for 20-30 min for the next bus many times (this is travelling from North side to wynnum).

What causes traffic congestion? Everybody going from every point in the city trying desperately to get into the CBD all at the same time. Trying to give everybody a single-seat journey will just cause the same problem with busses. Already the Cultural Centre busway is running at capacity - there is barely any more room for busses to squeeze through during peak hour.

I agree, bus and rail frequencies are s*** and the timetables aren't integrated - because BT and QR are fighting eachother for patronage. If they actually worked together they could actually have a single shuttle running between your suburb and the local station with a higher frequency, because the bus can just loop back and pick up more people rather than having to battle its way through to the CBD.

I've always thought the council spending huge amounts of money on busses is wasteful, a decent rail system or metro system would be far better. Busses still have to rely on general traffic most of the time, they don't ease the problem enough.

not if you build busways totally seperate to the main road, like what is going on up bowen bridge/lutwyche/gympie road, and what is already built down the southside.

that thing is going to be f***ing epic once it is finished, it's f***ing insane how much money they would have spent to reclaim and demolish all those houses and shops along from lutwyche to stafford road intersection

last edited by paveway at 10:38:43 26/Feb/09

Light rail should be investigated for inner city areas. Bloody brilliant being able to walk 2min up the road, pop on a tram which can take me to a train station, bus station or all the way to the city if I wanted to. Such a shame they ripped them up from Brisbane :(

They're doing a light rail system on the coast. Unfortunately some f***wit decided that the connection to helensvale train station would cost too much, so now it's going to be practically useless...

No matter what choice people have, bus, rail, walk, cycle many just want to drive. PT is part of the solution but in a country like Australia it will almost certainly never be the solution on its own.

That's because, so far, we've been successfully able to keep building roads, because our cities (when compared to urban chaos like in Europe) are comparatively well planned in terms of roads and sprawled so there's typically enough room for expansion.

So when we have congestion issues, we just thrown down a new highway or tunnel or whatever. So congestion never really gets to the point where it's an order of magnitude faster to get to places by public transport. But, my theory is, at some point you're going to hit the limit of how many roads you can put down, OR you're just going to be throwing roads everywhere and end up with the concrete jungle of LA.

So as long as we keep building roads until we hit that point, people are going to prefer driving over PT (who wouldn't?). But without government actually stepping up to the plate and providing actual leadership and direction on this issue, the long term plan is we're just going to be screwed, I think.

I'm seriously biased because I f***ing hate Los Angeles so much and I would be thoroughly miserable if Brisbane (or any Australian city) ended up even remotely like that, with giant slabs of grey, shocking traffic, and 6 lane freeways everywhere to get across town. It just looks disgusting and its so depressing being in that environment; every time I'm there I'm just counting the seconds until I get the f*** out of it.

No matter what choice people have, bus, rail, walk, cycle many just want to drive.

And some people would love to take public transport - but they just can't handle the constant unreliability of it. When you the amount of time it takes to get to and from work is like a lottery each day it gets a bit much. Will my bus arrive today.....?!?!?! NO!!! Weeeee, winner not me!

The amount of buses scheduled on a route that just don't turn up is far too high for my liking

not if you build busways totally seperate to the main road, like what is going on up bowen bridge/lutwyche/gympie road, and what is already built down the southside.

It's true, they are pretty darn good. But the trouble is they cover such a small area of Brisbane and any bus routes outside of the main busways still rely on normal roads and traffic. Until there's busways everywhere and in every suburb, I don't think busses would be as good as trains or a better rail network.

Light rail should be investigated for inner city areas. Bloody brilliant being able to walk 2min up the road, pop on a tram which can take me to a train station, bus station or all the way to the city if I wanted to. Such a shame they ripped them up from Brisbane :(

Trams/Light rail need dedicated right-of-ways or else you may as well just have busses. If you're sharing traffic with other cars than the cost of laying rails and stringing powerlines just so you can get the tram stuck in traffic again, could be better invested in increasing frequency with busses. The idea of the tram taking you to a train station or all the way to the city can be achieved with buses if they're given decent routes which interact with other modes.

They're doing a light rail system on the coast. Unfortunately some f***wit decided that the connection to helensvale train station would cost too much, so now it's going to be practically useless...

Uh, what? Stage one (Helensavle to Griffith Uni) has two possible alignments - both of which start at the railway station.
http://img.skitch.com/20090226-ftfauj5nfffmnwbjnkbj3qs7h7.jpg

And some people would love to take public transport - but they just can't handle the constant unreliability of it. When you the amount of time it takes to get to and from work is like a lottery each day it gets a bit much. Will my bus arrive today.....?!?!?! NO!!! Weeeee, winner not me!

Yet another reason why trains are superior!

I used to hate trains before I went to Japan and Europe and realised their incredible awesomeness compared to every other form of transport

@trog: if you love trains so much why don't you MARRY them?

Yeah exo they canned that part in favour of starting at griffith uni and going to southport, citing 'budget' as the reason :/

Busways are a poor substitute for trams/light rail. Bring back trams!

Trams/Light rail need dedicated right-of-ways or else you may as well just have busses. If you're sharing traffic with other cars than the cost of laying rails and stringing powerlines just so you can get the tram stuck in traffic again, could be better invested in increasing frequency with busses.

In the suburbs they can be on roads, and for the main roads a dedicated (ex-bus)tramway.

The advantage of trams is they carry more people and use electricity which in theory could one day be "green". Melbourne trams are the one thing that I like about that city.

last edited by Obes at 12:39:41 26/Feb/09

forget trams you might aswell have a seperate busway, atleast buses aren't stuck to 1 track. and a dedicated busway is not going to piss people off

and a dedicated busway is not going to piss people off

unless you're a home owner who now has a busway infront of their house

It takes me 25 mins to drive to work, without much traffic.
About 1 hour in heavy traffic.

It would take me about 2 1/2 hours to Train it to work, one way.

Public transport isn't an option for me, otherwise I would use it.

The starting/stopping of trams in some traffic conditions isn't that big a deal as long as its tied well with being able to let people on and off, I reckon

I've noticed that the starting/stopping of trams can help with traffic flow. When a tram stops all traffic behind must stop so it generates gaps in the road which help to keep traffic moving further on which alleviates congestion at busy intersections.

Of course it'll reach a point where it won't help and become a hinderance.

Don't take me as a bus zealot or a zealot for any particular mode of transport - each one needs to be suited to the appropriate task. For example, the GCRT is greater suited to LR as its serving a line-haul route. The SE-Busway should be a LR route and the stations should be upgraded with bus interchanges from suburban services. The eastern busway which is being built via Old Cleveland Road really should be a heavy rail route and link to the planning QR Inner-City Rail Capacity Study's planned tunnels from Park Road via Wooloongabba through to Northgate.

I will never in my entire life vote for labor, that video that nF posted is the sole reason. A federal government being run by trade unions = lol.

However, at state level it is a compleltey different ballgame. I was actually considering voting labor for my first time ever after anna bligh raised the election, however her first f***ing ad has direct mention to "working closely with kevin rudd" f*** woman, you don't have a choice. So she can suck my plums and I'll give my vote to the downy borg.

City council (ala, can do campbell) is the one pushing the buttons on the all the tunnels and bridges. Bligh/Beatie are the thank for a bus system which is going to go f***ing nowhere.

I agree completely with a mass metro system in Brisbane. I still cant believe out of the 10437814867124921414719831 bridges over our river, only 2 supports trains, and only 1 supports trains to more than 1 line. I imagine though, it being f***ing hard to build an underground rail system in a city as developed as ours. All these roads, though, is just making this harder for the future.

I imagine though, it being f***ing hard to build an underground rail system in a city as developed as ours. All these roads, though, is just making this harder for the future.

Yeh, I woulda thought that too - but when I was in Amsterdam a couple months ago I found out they're building a metro system under their city. Which has a f***ing canal every 30 meters. Now that's an engineering challenge (actually apparently they are having problems with buildings sinking and s***, so I suspect that is like a worst-case scenario sort of deal for metro builders).

there isn't actually that many bridges lol

Between Kangaroo point cliffs and Milton there are *counts* eight, or will be eight.

That's a lot

would you rather ferries ?

I miss the cross river ferries

I miss the cross river ferries

Most of them are still there?

they investigated light rail years ago and then all the busway stuff happened instead, surely any idea of light rail in brisbane is dead

I imagine though, it being f***ing hard to build an underground rail system in a city as developed as ours.

do you mean that brisbane isn't developed enough and it wouldn't be feasible? otherwise i don't get why

it seems to be that a metro rail system would require relatively little developed (i.e. ground level) land, just some relatively small stations and escalators going down

digging tunnels isn't exactly cheap, in fact i'd be surprised if it wasn't cheaper just to buy the land above.

I'd rather have tunnels all over the place with worth while crap biult on top of them than see 4,6,8 lanes of road all over the place.

Mind you that being said I'd rather see better rail options than either of the options above.

A federal government being run by trade unions

Do you really believe that or is that what you have been told to believe by staunch liberals ?

Labor has far from done what the unions wanted, they have barely done enough to keep them from causing dramas. Heck you can still fire someone after 6 months for no reason at all, even if you tell them they are on probation for 3 months.

And its interesting you said trade unions.
"Professional" Unions and associations are fine ?

it seems to be that a metro rail system would require relatively little developed

Because digging a hole isn't expensive ?
Isn't the hole from bowen hills to the airport budgetted to cost 5 billion dollars ? And that is not that far.

Think it'd be more feasible to resume build a rail line and sell the air space.

They need to make apartment living more feasible. Little s*** like being allowed to have pets and things. All the cities I have seen with extensive subways have much higher densities then Brisbane.

what i meant was that the level of development in brisbane would have relatively little impact on the cost of the project, compared of course with the expense of tunnelling

they investigated light rail years ago and then all the busway stuff happened instead, surely any idea of light rail in brisbane is dead

True, but all busways are built to light-rail standards for gradient, clearance and turn radius so in future the capability is there for them to be converted. I doubt it will happen though.

Isn't the hole from bowen hills to the airport budgetted to cost 5 billion dollars ? And that is not that far.

Keep in mind though that the tunnels such as NSBT require two separate boring machines and a third services tunnel to support them. A metro system (including the station areas) can be dug with a single boring machine, thus allowing two separate routes to be constructed at once (srsly, we've got the TBMs, we may as well use them).

True, but all busways are built to light-rail standards for gradient, clearance and turn radius so in future the capability is there for them to be converted. I doubt it will happen though.

because its s***.

the trams in brisbane were hated for the traffic dramas they caused. and this was the 1960s. light rail just plain sucks. its got the carrying capacity of buses, but the infrastructure and inflexibility of trains. just to add to the mix they are limited to a pathetic top speed, so useless for the longer hauls. and unless the city is built around them (melbourne) then it just can't happen.

they aren't a solution at all.

light rail just plain sucks. its got the carrying capacity of buses, but the infrastructure and inflexibility of trains. just to add to the mix they are limited to a pathetic top speed, so useless for the longer hauls.

You know I can pull up the CDIMP for the GC Rapid Transit Project where they specifically address the choice of Bus Rapid Transit versus LR Transit if you'd like. LR wins or equals nearly all of the criteria.

Yeah, why do people have a hard on for trams, what advantages do they have over buses?

seriously, they are both f***ing idiots.

But I'll be voting for the one I'm speculating to be an idiot, rather than the one who has proven it beyond all shadow of a doubt.

Mal Brough should be the LNP Leader FFS

Cool, I wonder if I get another fine ... did last time when I moved OS and krudd was votoed in :(

Mal Brough was going to be a Manchurian Candidate sent by Federal Libs to infiltrate the LNP and become leader then Destroy it.

remember to put minor parties that have no chance of winning first to funnel money away from the major parties. :)

massive obes bite, my work here is complete

Mal Brough should be a leader.

I am not the LNP should exist. Libs and nats share little other then being conservative in values.

metro system (including the station areas) can be dug with a single boring machine

So no second service tunnel ? strange I thought they had one.

Hah Mal Brough wanted to destroy the Liberal Party.

So no second service tunnel ? strange I thought they had one.

Generally they're bored with a single TBM and the service tunnels are in-filled along with smaller tubes for the lines and service tunnel, and then it opens up for the full diameter for the stations.

EG:
http://img.skitch.com/20090227-df4i2ubdn7hpw7b36mc4e42id2.jpg

I don't do public transport
the end

Jim drives over public transport

Thanks for funding Public Transport and thanks for not using it.
We need more TaxPayers like you.

If i'm heading into the city i'll often catch the 111 from EightMile Plains Park n' Ride Bus station.
During peak times it's often quicker then dealing with traffic and finding (and paying for) a park. Having my own company parking would probably swing me though.

They just need 8 Light-Rail ways (N,NE,E,SE,S,SW,W,NW) and 3 or 4 Ring Busway/Light-Rail connectors. Cost a lot to build and you would have to take a bit of land. Underground would work as well.

Looks like I might get to vote for Pauline hanson as she reckons shes gonna run in the seat of beaudesrt. I reckon she would have a real chance of winning here as everyone usualy just votes for kev lingard becuase most people in the beaudesrt area would have meet the guy at some point and just vote for him cause he is there.

I always did like her policy of getting rid of special treatment for aboriginals, and just give them the same as everyone else, not sure why that was seen as racist, seems pretty fair to me.

Actaully Im pretty sure I will vote for her, Dont like anna bligh, she doesnt seem very smart, and springborg is just a negative f***er with no real ideas.

Even though I kinda want LNP to win, I wouldn't, in a million f***ing years, vote the the LNP member going for Beaudesert.

I really hope he gets <0.5% of the vote, has to go crawling back to the rock he hides under in Logan, beg for his Counciler job back, then get told to go jump off a cliff by the people in his seat.

He's absolute scum. Vile prick.

It will be a disaster for QLD if we get a hung parliament with Hanson holding the balance of power.
Then Financial Crisis will be crippling and one thing we dont need is a circus Parliament. Either the LNP pull off the biggest miracle since Christs resurrection and rule in their own right or Labor wins with a majority.

Anything else will be a disaster for QLD.

How on earth do you think a single TBM (Tunnel Boring Machine) can dig the hole big enough for both directions?

You realise the road tunnels being constructed atm are only 3 lanes wide and each direction is being dug by a TBM individually?

lol i thought that sounded a bit bulls*** that 1 TBM was boring enough for the 3 tunnels

it's not like the english channel tunnel where they met in the middle, in which case they were dug out from underneath and left there.

The TBM being used on the NSBT is 12.4m in diameter (source). Here' s a diagram of the london tube - the trains are tiny and the entire tunnel is probably about 3m in diameter max. You can easily fit two 3m diameter tubes within a 12.4m diameter master tunnel.

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Tube-surface-dwg2.gif

last edited by exo at 17:16:09 27/Feb/09

http://www.startsandfits.com/images/subway_comparison_chart.jpg

http://fotoalbum.wdr.de/data/media/29/Wuppertaler_Schwebebahn.jpg

Educate me people!
What transport issues are local government (BCC) and what are state government?

Because there are all these ads with the LNP dogging the Labor party about traffic congestion and failed transport. Surely some of that is Campbell's fault?

Arterial roads and rail are state issues. Local network roads are BCC. Buses BCC.

So yeah the traffic is basically all the State Government's fault.

Capper for Beaudesert!

how do I absentee vote? as far as qld knows I still live up there

www.ecq.qld.gov.au

Arterial roads and rail are state issues. Local network roads are BCC. Buses BCC.

So yeah the traffic is basically all the State Government's fault.

Except for anything involving BCC Busses or Local network roads...
Oh and the Federally funded highways.

Clear as mud.

Time to get rid of state governments.

No argument here.

My boss is an old draughty from the days when it was all hand drawn and measured, and he bangs on about electric trolleys being superior to light rail. You get the power, gradient and turning capabilities of a bus but it runs off power supplied by lines overhead. It's also cheaper and easier to setup than light rail. IMO that's what they should do with the Busways, then invest in some green energy choices to make the Busway systems even more environmentally friendly.

There's a running joke at work about how light rail comes up every 5-7 years. Somebody comes up with light rail as the solution to our problems, we spend millions of dollars investigating it then realise that it's not the best option for Brisbane at the moment. It's true too, I've read about 3 different studies from the past 20 years (each about 5 to 7 years apart) trying to sell light rail. Light rail and subways will certainly be a viable option in the future, and we should be doing everything we can today to make their implementation easier in the future, but they just not a viable option until our population is more dense, and the land around major corridors is better managed.

IMO, the government should be offering incentives for developers to produce apartment blocks/office buildings/shopping centers/urban villages around Busway and railway stations. Look at Holland Park Busway station; it's just surrounded by medium and low density housing. You can get a 111 from there and be in the city in about 10 minutes. The land over the road should be put under resumption and turned apartments that can service different socioeconomic groups. Too many properties are aimed at servicing couples or the 'nuclear family'. They need more homes designed to service singles who want to live alone or singles who want to live in share accommodation.

/rant

er, im pretty sure holland park and the surrounding area doesnt want high density (read CHEAP) housing

we like it here with our large blocks and no poor people (and therefore no crime)

last edited by Spook at 08:38:55 03/Mar/09

high density is basically all the southside is good for anyway, don't fight it davey

Why not encourage more tele-commuting, through business tax incentives? You reduce the need to commute into the city, demands for infrastructure, and pollution to boot.

you can't tele-commute your kids to school

beam them up

you can't tele-commute your kids to school

Actually you can. Home schooling is an option. But your kids would end up freaks.

The latest polling indicates a swing of 7.5%. Basically Anna Bligh will lose. It is unclear whether it will be a minority government or a LNP victory.

Fighting on the economy was a bad strategy for her.

oh god no:

other states will laugh at us if we are governed by the borg :(

Credit rating, big budget deficits, massive traffic problems and a female premier.. other states are already laughing!

They need more homes designed to service singles who want to live alone or singles who want to live in share accommodation.

Let me guess, you are a single wanting to live alone or in share accomadation?

I Assume you are, so basically you want government planning done to suit your particular needs.

female premier

No one ever laughed at Maggie Thatcher... oh wait

So I'm not enrolled on the electoral roll, and it's past the deadline. How f***ed am I?

You've never enrolled or you haven't updated your details?

So I'm not enrolled on the electoral roll, and it's past the deadline. How f***ed am I?

Proper f***ed. Ninjas have been dispatched to your home.

last edited by infi at 12:47:36 03/Mar/09

^Never enrolled.

The ninja's were dispatched by my guardian dragon.

So I'm not enrolled on the electoral roll, and it's past the deadline. How f***ed am I?

You're not, I have moved that many times I could not be bothered. I rang them and they said as punishment they would take me off the roll, I fail to see the punishment.

Well, if you enrol you can't be prosecuted for past offences.

Well, if you enrol you can't be prosecuted for past offences.

I have been off the roll for years, it just one of those things I forget about till it is to late. And after the election I will promptly forget again. I rang them and said will I get fined and they said no, I would only be fined for being on the roll and not voting. I am trying to find out if there is any penalty in money terms but can only find the fine for failing to vote. Oh well s*** happens.

Angie@work says:

https://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/declarationvoting/default.aspx
click on print blank application

infi do me a favour and give me some explanation about this ad. I want to know if this has been taken out of context or any reason why he made this statement given the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not being a smartarse I genuinely want to know what the deal is.

The only two options I see here are.
1) Labor has jumped on something which has been take completely out of context
or
2) Springborg is a f***ing total retard

As I said I am not trying to be a smartarse and I do genuinely want to know what was going on when he made these seemingly stupid remarks. I am asking because it is fairly aparent that you keep well and truely up to date with whats going on with the libs. So please give me your take on these remarks.

so the guys and girls in labor are talking down the economy to talk up their prospects of being better at managing it?

also, correct me if i'm wrong but its now just the LNP, not the nationals.

Same house just a dodgey coat of new paint nf and if you want to split hairs over something so insignificant it only shows that you really don't have anything of real value to say.

We are not in a recession last I checked. A recession requires two quarters of negative GDP growth which has not occured.

The great depression saw mass unemployment (50%), rationing and all sorts of other "war footing"-like measures, none of which have occurred in Queensland. To that extent Lawrence is right, the current situation is nowhere near as serious as the last major depression... yet.

But there is worse to come and I am sure that in the two months which have elapse since that comment he may be taking a different attitude to the current financial situation.

One thing I can tell you is that despite record revenues on the back of mining royalties and NSW's GST Labor have failed to plan for Queensland's growth:
- inadequate planning for the burgeoning South East Queensland
- a health system in disarray and unable to manage emergency department needs on most days
- fudging of health statistics for their own spin (counting tables in corridors as "hospital beds")
- hopelessly late road infrastructure roll out (e.g. Gateway motorway), and a total failure to upgrade the ipswich motorway
- failure to plan for additional dam capacity in useful catchment areas
- steamrolling of local communities during the local government amalgamations;
- a procession of incompetent and corrupt ministers
- total servitude to public sector unions awarding unsustainable pay-rises
- neglect of the police service, understaffing and underpay
- a totally bungled management of the Jayant Patel scandal providing a business clas ticket out of the country only to then seek his extradition back to Queensland
- more obsession with spin with their hollow Smart State cliches which in essence delivered no measurable benefit to the state
- appointment of ex-con (vote rorter) Mike Kaiser to Anna Bligh's chief of staff.

need i go on...

This government has failed the Queensland on so many levels and I applaud Lawrence's commitment to slash public service levels through natural attrition and forced savings.

NSW went on this crusade just a couple of years back. Inevitably the public service gets bloated at times and it is due for a clean out.

Not only do I agree with the LNP policies but with a change of government hopefully a whole bunch of bureaucratic deadwood should be removed at the same time.


last edited by infi at 20:39:57 03/Mar/09

I go for option a) while option b) is slightly a factor as well
Right at the start of the ad he says "It didn't need to be this bad" by that I am guessing he is referring to how in his opionion the current state and Federal gov is handling the finacial crisis.

Also that vid is taken in Jan and imo things have gotten a lot worse since then.

The funny thing about that ad is about a week earlier Andrew Fraser (current QLD treasurer) said he didn't believe QLD would go into recession this year. Labor are staying pretty quiet about that, aren't they?

last edited by Mantorok at 21:00:28 03/Mar/09

neither australia nor queensland are in recession by any definition - the most common being the one infi pointed out: 2+ quarters of negative gdp growth. whether or not it happens remains to be seen, though it's no where near as bad as the newspaper headlines would lead you to beleive.

i'll leave this thread to its rabid partisanship now

f*** anna bligh

wait......

what a horrible experience that would be.

Well in light of what infi just pointed out I'd say the "it didn't need to be this bad" comment was a reference to the fact that had QLD's money been handled better we would of been in a better position to take on this economic crisis. I guess meaning that it still would of hurt but not quite as bad.

Thanks infi for clearing that up and putting it in to context. I understand that you need to see negative growth or what have you to class it as a recession. However given how bad this was shaping up to be I would of thought that for anyone in the know this would of been an unavoidable reality and not just a possibility.

I am, lets say fairly pissed off given the amount of money that has been spent in qld over the past decade with massive developments that we are not in a stronger position. That being said though from everything I read both locally and international Australians should think themselves lucky we are riding this out as well as we are. Not real sure on the accuracy of those kinds of statements but I honestly don't feel real lucky atm.

While I have always been a pretty solid labor supporter I am mindful of the fact that when the going is good people being what they are tend to put their feet up and coast. Sometimes a good kick up the ass is what everyone needs at least once in a blue moon. Sadly though I just can not get around what I see in Springborg and no matter what good it would do us for a change I really don't believe he is the guy to do it. Now if he was an Obama type person (lack of a better example) whom even if he is wrong could still inspire people then sure he'd get my vote. Like him or not Obama is awesome to watch and sometimes thats all people need is to be inspired.

The great depression saw mass unemployment (50%)

So ... either you are ignorant or purposefully lying. Or care to provide a source ?

Unemployment during the Great depression peaked at between 25% and 30% in Australia depending on your source eg. wiki says 29% as does ABS source , but lets call it 1 in 3 people, still significantly different to 1 in 2 (The offical treasury figure was I believe 20% or 1 in 5 that was in a 2001 document ... very fanciful).

Also worth remembering that the height of unemployment happened 2 or 3 years after the stockmarket crash in 1929. It took around a year before it started to grow after the crash.

need i go on...

Not realy because either you don't know or are purposefully decieving ?

Beattie was Obama-like. A media whore. Liked his big speeches, and taking about doing things. He was the face people wanted to see and entertained people while he ran the show.

Look where Queensland ended up though. Bligh has the exact same policies as Beattie but without the media savvy. The 3 most important utilities are completely f***ed. Water, f***ed. Electricity, f***ed. Hospitals, f***ed.

Labor can't run a state government to save themselves, and the only thing that kept them in power so long is the cult of personality. Springborg might lack one, but hes no worse than Anna Bligh.

If you are basing your vote purely on who you like more, then you should stick to voting for Dancing with the Stars. Voting for a complete f*** up of a government is pretty f***ing stupid. People being inspired won't fix the mess that Queensland Health is in, it won't fill dams with water, it won't keep the power switched on.

The only people Anna Bligh is inspring to is dog ugly housewives and militant lesbians.

Let me guess, you are a single wanting to live alone or in share accomadation?

I Assume you are, so basically you want government planning done to suit your particular needs.

I already live in a 2 bedroom apartment which I share with a friend. I just know a LOT of young people who are either stuck living home or stuck in crappy share accommodation situations because it's just not possible to live comfortably on under $50k a year.

The point is that the massive tracts of land around Holland Park Busway station are wasted. To be honest, I don't give a flying f*** what the current residents want. Brisbane and its people need affordable accommodation that also has public transport access to major employment hubs like the CBD. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I didn't say anything about cheap accommodation. You could have nice apartments designed to appeal to young people with income to burn who want a nice, convenient place to live but don't want to pay $400+ a week to live in the CBD. There's a lot of places like that in areas like Greenslopes, New Farm and West End.

So ... either you are ignorant or purposefully lying. Or care to provide a source ?

Queensland is not experiencing mass unemployment and it is estimated to peak at 7% nationally. This is hardly comparable to the great depression. I didn't research the number, is that all you're worried about.

Do you care to consider the other merits to the Bligh government? Are there any bullet points you care to dispute Obes?

nf I really didn't think I had to spell this out for anyone but just to make it clear. Springborg over the years has done absolutely zero to inspire any confidence. Really dude you shouldn't need me to spell it out quite that clearly.

Confidence actually counts for a f*** load and if a leader of a party only has being a reactionary crying little bitch to his name he is hardly the kind of person people are going to want to see running the show. The LNP may actually do a great job given a chance seen as a fresh look at a problem and some fresh energetic blood is usually a great thing

The only thing Springborg has going for him at this point is preying on the typical aussie need for a change every so many years. He might have some great ideas or a great group of people supporting him but that seriously will not be what wins an election from them.

I don't want to hear what labor can't do I want to hear what the LNP can do, will do and how they will do it. I mean ffs the guy just blatantly went out of his way to buy the recreational fishermans vote which has f***ing zero to do with fixing the state and is a cheap grab for what he sees as easy votes. It's not the focus I want to see a party taking at a time like we are stuck in right now. I am a long time fisherman ever since I wa a kid but seriously ... f*** fishing and fix the f***ing state.

Crizane Tribal - Living in an apartment alone will always cost more than shared accomodation.

yeah so stick with the government which has shown it is completely incompetent despite an alternative which has shown it is ready to have a go.

I'd rather someone who I think might be stupid over someone I know is stupid.
But thats just me.

It comes down the the person in your District I think. Labor for our District is pretty good, dont know anything about the local LNP member. I know If I were in Beaudesert i'd be voting Labor or independent.
LNP member is a worm. Which leaves; Warrick Capper, Pauline Hanson, McCreadie (the new Labor guy), Greens (lol) or some Independent no-one has ever heard of.

thats not what I am saying infi. What I am saying is they should stop f***ing around playing this negative he said she said bulls***. You know if they actually pretended the labor party didn't exist and just focused on what they themselves can do they would come off a lot better.

Frankly you and your attitude sound just like them in that all you can do is say labor f***ed this labor f***ed that. Seriously stfu up thats not what people want to hear people want to hear how it's going to be fix. We all know that there is a f*** load of s*** that needs a hell of a lot of work. If you can do better then f***ing well tell us how because any idiot can stand ona street corner and say we are f***ed and I can fix hospitals. However it takes someone with a real plan to actually lay all their cards on the table and explain how they intend to go about it.

Without that kind of attitude what reason on earth do people have to think that the LNP are any different from labor?

LNP ads seem to be attacking Labor, Labor ads seem to be attacking Springborg.
What positive ads are Labor playing this time round? Cant say i've seen one.

Warrick Capper's out according to the media. He didn't put his name on the form before handing it in to the teacher.

A real shame though, the Today Tonight televised debate between Capper and Hanson would have been more precious than gold.

nf I really didn't think I had to spell this out for anyone but just to make it clear. Springborg over the years has done absolutely zero to inspire any confidence. Really dude you shouldn't need me to spell it out quite that clearly.

i don't get your logic. someone who hasn't proven himself to be any good at running a government compared to a bunch of morons who have proven they can't run a government. if you can spell out why you are happy to stick with the useless government over some guy who doesn't have the right vibe, mojo, aura or whatever, that'd be great.

i've actually met anna bligh. i wasn't exactly in awe of her presence. i was working in a PC2 lab working with biologicals, she came over to me, introduced herself and tried to shake my hand. i'm in latex gloves, in a lab. i put my hands in the air, to point out the gloves and i said "sorry, i can't". she kept her hand out there for a while before it clicked.

i wasn't exactly inspired by that experience.

Sadly scooter I think you might be right and unfortunately for us it's pretty much par for the course when it comes to aussie politics.

I am just looking for reasons to change and the LNP just isn't giving me anything to go on. It's just more of the same old BS and in that reguard I really don't think it matters who the f*** gets in. In a year or so the state will rebound and who ever is in will claim they made it happen due to their great leadership while totally ignoring the fact that we only rebounded because the rest of the planet did.

She comes across as being not the full quid on the tv as well nF.
Too bad the borg seems like too much of a whinger to actually present an alternative government.

I still don't know who the hell to vote for but at least there's still two and a half weeks to flip the coin.

Even though I think Springborg is a douche and not a great public figure, you can't go past the fact that Labor has f***ed so many things in Queensland. I'd be willing to give the others a go to see what they can do.

That like changing the captain of the TiTanic after its hit the Iceberg.

Yeah but he went down with the ship mate and somehow I doubt any polies in this country have those kind of balls.

[Queensland is] not in a recession last I checked. A recession requires two quarters of negative GDP growth which has not occured.

However, as the ad uses quotes from Obama, the ad is referring to the global economy which is in recession as far as I've heard. As long as Springborg was answering a question about the global economy when he said it's not recession, then the treatment of his words is justified. He is not fit to lead if he thinks the global economy doesn't affect Queenslands.

What positive ads are Labor playing this time round? Cant say i've seen one.

I guess you haven't been paying attention as there's a Labor ad that is a woman talking about the projects Labor has done while in office. She mentions (to name a few) the Gateway Bridge Duplication, Prep and 10,000 Police Officers.

last edited by Triamks at 00:27:22 04/Mar/09

decisions decisions

labor candidate is the boy treasurer, andrew fraser
lnp candidate looks trustworthy
greens candidate is a hot chick that went for the senate in 2007 and didn't get in

yep, greens it is

I doubt any of them have much knowledge about navigating the Atlantic, either. Thats how useless they are.

Yeah but he went down with the ship mate and somehow I doubt any polies in this country have those kind of balls.

You could say inifi's boyfriend Howard did.

yep, greens it is

Greens candidate AND a hottie? According to the party charter aren't female candidates supposed to have mono-brows and only wash their hair once every few months?

manchurian candidate? (for the democrats?)

I didn't research the number, is that all you're worried about.

You didn't really research any of it. You are spouting the same old same old. If 1 "fact" is made up why aren't the rest ? how are we to decide when you are bulls***ting or giving us something of substance ?

Are there any bullet points you care to dispute Obes?

A few are based on truth some I'd say are standard election waffle (every election Police gets a mention). Some like the wages bloat sure there was unsustainable wages bloat but it wasn't just in the public service unions. eg. A truck driver at the mines could earn 135k with a few weeks training! But a nurse was only getting 40something with 3 years uni minimum. I guess you have to offer some okmoney to keep decent people, question being were they decent ?

Some of your points are sensationalist crap or common "gripes".

eg. The medical system is no worse here then it is in other states. And of course every politician is going to count things in the most positive light possible.

The real underlying problem to medical problems is really the AMA and it's not something any government seems able to cope with. A doctor shortage created due to a lack of training where the AMA caps training numbers so that they can maintain a shortage an in doing so higher wages. The only hiccup was even less doctors hung around then expect eg.More women doctors who work less hours due to family commitments and or take a break for children created a smaller number of doctors then even the AMA hoped for. So we import doctors ... And all our doctors do stupid numbers of hours.

Which basically caused "the Jayant Patel scandal" and for all your posturing and the posturing of papers. How many millions of dollars are going to be wasted on this case in the legal system ? Could those dollars have been used on something useful ? Could that court time have been better spent on some guy who was never going to set foot here again ? I agree it's a scandal but only from the perspective that they did the stupid populist thing and pursued a case which probably won't even achieve a result.

Police ? Queensland police starting salary $53,409, I picked 2 random states (I figured one would be higher ie. Vic and 1 lower NT ) NT $49,369, Vic $48,206. Turns out I was wrong at least on starting salaries Queensland coppers seem to do ok. Maybe the top end of policing gets paid worse ? or maybe it's not true ?
Besides our coppers these days seem pretty good. But coppers and firies always stick there hands up at election times (who can blame them).

Infrastructure ?Its kind of funny. The state started doing so well that it caused pressure on infrastructure (people moving here), and that some how is proof the state is doing so bad ?

But everytime any government goes to do something there is always some lobby group that appears, lobbiests are swinging voters so every politician in miles tries to appease them .. why ? cos people like you Infi are gunna vote for the LNP anyways and people like unionists are going to vote labor. Joh's most positive feature was that he chose when he was going to "feed the chooks".

Queensland is not experiencing mass unemployment

Didn't BHP let over a thousand Queenslanders go in 1 hit ?
You are aware that Queensland got the biggest unemployment spike in the country for December to January this year ? source oops sorry that's research
Remembering that during the depression unemployment peak was 3-4 years after the stockmarket crash. (source previously supplied) Mapping that from then to now it's what about 2012 ? (I don't think a great depression style thing will happen, but saying it hasn't happened yet is meaningless). But unemployment is going to rise to atleast double what it was 12months ago. So to say its not a problem is understating it. They have to be prepared.

And even if we don't have a technical recession in Queensland or Australia, the western economies are already or will be soon. And that will affect us (already is).

BTW What is the magic number for "mass". Should the government do nothing until "mass unemployment" is reached ? Should they ignore the half a percent spike in January ?

LNP and labor need a punch in the head. Bring back Brough he's a proven doer who does things because they are right not popular.


1 final comment

Not only do I agree with the LNP policies but with a change of government hopefully a whole bunch of bureaucratic deadwood should be removed at the same time.

Of course you agree you were an offical in the party Liberal party weren't you ?
And you or your family donated money ? It's like saying the pope is catholic. *DUH*

When Joh got the flick our education system went from having the best teachers in the state making decissions, to the manager of the Berli bra factory (krudd interestingly enough was the toe chopper). And EQ has been wonky ever since. Just because they are bureacrats doesn't mean they are doing a bad job (some are for sure). Going on culls is only good if they cull the bad and get in good. Otherwise its just random.

yeah so stick with the government which has shown it is completely incompetent despite an alternative which has shown it is ready to have a go.

got ya!@

lols, sounds like mr palmer isnt very happy with his investment!

In one interview, Mr Palmer said he wanted to influence party policy while in another he labelled LNP leader Lawrence Springborg uncharismatic and Ms Bligh a lightweight.

infi, please investigate and report back for me on what position clive will be given if lnp luckout and win the election




last edited by Spook at 08:47:15 04/Mar/09

"Lawrence Springborg is no charismatic character but he's a person who wants to run the state properly," Mr Palmer told ABC television.

not much controversy there.

that's old news spook. mr palmer cannot influence LNP policy and he knows it. if you had any real understanding of how the LNP works you wouldn't be swallowing those bs media reports.

unlike the ALP which is owned and run by the union movement, not the rank and file members.

mr palmer cannot influence LNP policy and he knows it

i bet he can try!

yeah he can try like all the other crack pots haha. at least he has a right to try being a paid up member.

in the alp you don't even have that right. 51% of all votes are allocated to union delegates!

I still say we have a QGL party, if all of you put only half the effort that's put into arguing over trivial points here then it'd be a winning party!

However, as the ad uses quotes from Obama, the ad is referring to the global economy which is in recession as far as I've heard.

wrong. several (edit: bit more than several actually) developed economies are in or facing recession, but the global economy as a whole is not. the imf has revised its forecast for global gdp growth downwards to 0.5% for 2009 though so it's possible the global economy may slip into recession.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/update/01/

last edited by taggs at 11:59:07 04/Mar/09

wrong.

Well I've heard wrong then. I'm okay admitting that.

I still say we have a QGL party, if all of you put only half the effort that's put into arguing over trivial points here then it'd be a winning party!

Can I be the media spokesman, I have a way with words. For example when questioned about anything I will have the standard reply of f*** off you useless c***s.

here to say unions suck f***ing balls
they also f*** sucking balls

Crizane Tribal - Living in an apartment alone will always cost more than shared accomodation.

Of course it will, and I didn't say that it wouldn't. I'm just saying that living alone or in smaller share situations (like just 2 people sharing a house or apartment) should not be prohibitively expensive.

Does anybody else here giggle a little when they read 'Mr Palmer'?

No.

Why don't we have a pirate party?

wrong.

Well I've heard wrong then. I'm okay admitting that.

You sound like Beattie, you could run for Labor leader.

That was Denecessary.