So, apparently Valve has decided to put some changes into the game, starting with the medic.

But what do you guys want to see?

Pyro definitely needs some sort of special skill that gives him an actual edge, so people actually go "oh god why do we have no pyros!" once in a while. I was thinking of having the flamethrower's alt be to turn off the flame at the tip and just shoot out the liquid fuel, which you could spread around on the ground and on top of water and s***, then light on fire when enemies got close. Enemies that were on top of the flame would take damage based on how intense the flames are and of course when they leave they're on fire. It'd also serve as kind of a subterfuge helping the pyro escape or get in close to use his flamethrower.

2 months... fark thats aids :( I want new maps now!

I think the Pyro is just fine, for two reasons:

1. He can drop down in front of a cluster of enemy attackers and just set them all alight. While he may only kill one or two of them before dying, the rest have to retreat and find health or wait for a medic. Hence the attack was just suppressed for the time being, which could make a huge difference if they're far into your base or your team is ill-prepared or waiting for a respawn.

2. He is best qualified for unearthing spies and defending engineers and their sentries, etc. In many situations, my defending team was getting owned by multiple spies bringing down our sentries and stabbing key defenders. After switching to Pyro and countering this for 5 minutes, the sabotaging eventually stops and the sentries can do a better job of assisting cap-point defence until the map end.

So no, the Pyro can be insanely deadly and useful if used correctly. I see no reason to change anything. And yes, MANY times I have heard people asking over the mic or in text "we could do with a couple pyros right now".

last edited by parabol at 22:03:40 20/Jan/08

pyro is powerful enough I reckon. from point blank he can do a fair bit of damage, but from any sort of range he's mostly useless. I've taken down heavies as a pyro but only in a confined space after I've ambushed them. There's a bit of an art to playing him, which is how it should be.

one thing i've always reckoned is that scouts need to have less health. their scattergun is powerful enough (at close range) and they are fast enough that they should be so weak that they all but die when you blink at them. It's frustrating as a soldier when you hit a scout with a rocket dead-on and they still manage to kill you with a point-blank scattergun shot.

It's frustrating as a soldier when you hit a scout with a rocket dead-on and they still manage to kill you with a point-blank scattergun shot.

Scouts are already fragile.

Pyro's are awesome if you know how to play one properly, one of the most fun classes IMO!

Yeah my gf often asks what I'm laughing at and I reply "nothing - just playing pyro again. :D"

Saint were you playing as scout the other night? Can't remember which server I was on at the time - either GA or internode, 2fort-only.

Nah, haven't played for a while actually .. only a clan game the other night (and I was really really rusty) so any other Saint's are imposters!

The only problem with the pyro class is that they can be utterly useless on some maps.

2Fort is one of them, unless you have problems with enemy spies, they are borderline useless, getting across the bridge or up the tunnel, you just get owned with range, and then any turret owns you straight up. making you almost useless on offense.

I think they work better on CP maps ATM.


Oh and i remmeber that imposter Saint too cerb, and i said hi to you too cerb, and you ignored me. I presumed imposter saint and cerb were having hot cybers.




last edited by giririsss at 08:56:28 21/Jan/08

omghi2ugiri

pyro on 2fort is win. They are a defensive class, so I mostly play as such. Wait just inside the base and torch everything that passes. The confined spaces and lack of health packs are to your advantage, and if the opposition have a weak offense they pretty much won't get by you. I can play it offensively tho, but you have to use the shotgun in the more open spaces and move quickly to cover. If an enemy sentry is in the wrong place you can torch it around corners/from under ledges without getting hurt.

I don't get to play him much any more cos I play 2fort almost exclusively and 1 pyro is enough (so long as they know what they're doing) so if my team has one then I go something else.

I notice that people don't seem to rate the soldier enough on 2fort, so I'm mostly playing that now. Soldiers can clear out most enemy sentries fairly quickly, which people don't seem to realise. There's often cries for spies to take out sentries when it's so easy to stay behind cover and put rockets on it/at its base. If the engy's there he often takes enough splash damage that he can't spam repair it for too long, then once he's gone it's all over.

pyros are good fun for pub play - but i've never, and i mean never, seen any half decent clan ever use one.

in that sense they're somewhat broken because pretty much every other class is used by clans in certain strats on certain maps.

edit: well that's not entirely true, good clans don't use engineer either. so i spose it's worth keeping pyro/engi the way they are for fun value in pub play.

last edited by taggs at 11:04:34 21/Jan/08

I love it when the opposing teams play as pyro, due to the pyro's short range and being a soldier or heavy, they have no chance. But indeed they can be deadly if used right! On 2fort, I found sitting on the grate on the 2nd level in your base and jumping down through the whole behind an enemy when they pass very effective.

I used to play Soldier on defence on 2fort alot - for someone s*** with rockets like me it's easy because of all the confined spaces. I used to annoy the hell out of spies because they could never get past, always had all the spies dominated heh.

shacknews has some badlands impressions

sounds sweet. wonder why they decided to change it to cp instead of keeping it as ctf though.

i love playing pyro on dustbowl defence. last night i topped the server playing nothing but pryo. i had an awesome medic ubering me though, nuthin butta fireball of destruction w00t

i do like phooks idea of being able to spray gas all over the joint. or even if pyros got to chuck molotovs that would be cool. those things would be fun, but i think the game is pretty much balanced to perfection as it is.

well that's not entirely true, good clans don't use engineer either

One could argue that half the classes probably wouldn't be used by clans. I'd imagine a disguised spy would be the most useless when you know your clan members and their habits so well, not to mention talking over the mic constantly.

Personally I don't have any intention of being involved in clan-matches for TF2, as I prefer having a whole heap of random fun over the seriousness of competition. Most of the time I'm not even caring about the capture point, but just providing indirect support for the team by wiping out saboteurs, sentries, back-stabbing heavies and medics at key positions. etc. The capture points will tend to themselves :)

well one would wrong - spies are used to great effect in certain situations by most of the top clans =)

like I said it's probably worth keeping the engi/pyro the way they are for the fun factor in pub play.

spies are used to great effect in certain situations by most of the top clans.

Yeah but one can argue the same about a Pyro "in certain situations".

I prefer small clans mixed into a pub server anyway. Get the best of good coordination and pub randomness :)

Being able to lay down fuel traps would be sofa king sweet, however probably a bit too much.

Molatov's could be interesting though.

I haven't played TF2 in a while actually. I'm into Assassin's Creed, FIFA 08 and have less time so I feel TF2 is going to be neglected for a lot longer. Hopefully once I start playing again they'll have more stages.

not really. if you aren't really involved in clan play you probably wouldn't understand. pyros can do well on pub but in a clan v clan situation there really isn't anything a pryo can do that can't be done better or with more versatility by another class. or at least i've never seen it (edit: and i've seen most/all the top aus clans in action).

but they are a s*** load of fun.


last edited by taggs at 12:11:40 21/Jan/08

pyros are good fun for pub play - but i've never, and i mean never, seen any half decent clan ever use one.

actually quite a few of the clans we play against usually end up having a pyro to counter my spying. PC was using one last night and they are 10th on ladder.

I'd imagine a disguised spy would be the most useless

ahhh no. you've just gotta spy even smarter to be effective. spys definitely work, just ask my teammates :D

I used to get owned by spies all the time while sniping since you don't have the time to look who's around you, I'm paranoid though, I just take shots at everyone I see.

Actually, alot of good clans use pyros and engineers, usually in combination together. So thats a mis-representation. They are both situation specific though. They have to be part of your over all strat.

I think on 2fort a demo is more useful on defense than a pyro, especially in pubs, but i've seeen awesome pyros on defense and with an engineer they can clean up. But i still think a demo would is more useful, even while watching them.

And spies are awesome no matter how organised the other clan is, but a good spy is very rare, takes alot of prac to get useful imo.

I just think overall, the pyro is the most "restricted" class going around. ie the situations where they are awesome, is very limited. That said, they are my favourite class, and on anything but 2fort i usually play pyro alot.

I like the fire trap idea, that would make them really useful on 2fort on defense, as much as a demo.

ahhh no. you've just gotta spy even smarter to be effective. spys definitely work, just ask my teammates :D

Oh I'm not saying they're completely useless, but I would have guessed more likely further down the list of all-round most useful classes for a clan-only match. My point is, if a Pyro of all things is claimed to be useless, then I'd argue a Spy is even more. Anyway it's my favourite class and the one I've spent most time as on normal servers, so I'm not against it in any way.

By the way, if you ever remember someone saying "as if QGL" over mic, that would have been me surprised at so many [QGL] folk on various servers :)

I'm paranoid though, I just take shots at everyone I see.

It's amusing in 2Fort when you when you watch the scoreboard for the known enemy spies to respawn, once they do you wait 10 seconds then rush the middle spraying the flame everywhere (even though there's no-one around). Usually end up getting a completely invisible spy trying to rush through. Though it gets you accused of hacking, but meh :P

last edited by parabol at 12:35:25 21/Jan/08

PC aint a top clan, we're playing em soon in the ozfortress cup. rank on GA ladder doesn't really mean much only a couple of the clans in the top 10 will still be in the top 10 within a month cause tonnes of good clans started late.

eg. z0r are 10th or 11th but we've destroyed them in scrims on db twice and 2fort once, and fi. are 3rd we beat 12-0 on granary.

the only top clans you guys have played are [-] and MAD DOGZ, i bet they didn't use pyros or engis and if they did it's cause they were f***ing around.

Spies aren't useless in good hands like strecker ^_^

Put me on one side of 2fort with the sniper scaring the hell out of and killing anything coming across the center, and put strex on the other side steamrolling them from behind while they worry about me and the result is one annihilated offensive rush before it even gets across the bridge.

My sniping has been failing terribly lately, been playing too much dustbowl as heavy/demo/engy etc.

taggs are you in a? A are full of f***in school kid tools.
And you sound like you have an elitist attitude too.

last edited by J at 14:07:19 21/Jan/08

heh, nah i'm in cC. we've scrimmed -A- before though - didn't really have a problem with them. did they act like tools to you guys?

edit: elitist? for saying pyros/engis aren't good in clan play or for saying you guys have only played 2 top clans? i only said that to point out that while some clans might use pyros/engis none of the good clans really use em. not trying to say my clan is pro or anything we got schooled by [-] the other night, just trying to point something out.

last edited by taggs at 14:22:22 21/Jan/08

nah a are just d*******s on the public servers all the time.
Run around telling everyone they're better than the people they just killed etc.

Or have a massive cry when they get dominated by someone as well. (then flipside it if they get the revenge kill)

minority of them are ok.

sounds like dice. hate that c***.

He says elitist cause you presume that the clans playing in your comp are the "top clans in aus". which is extremely elitist and snoby.

And yeah every good clan we've faced has had a pyro, some bad ones too. You just haven't seen them used efectively.

And yeah, i don't get why anyone pay attention to pub chat on pub servers, unless it's hello, it's all "stop hacking wah wah wah".

i don't get why anyone pay attention to pub chat on pub servers, unless it's hello,

I said hi to you anonymously a few weeks back and you did not respond. /wrist

Though I can't tell whether that's cause I had no idea how to pronounce your nick ("hey there giririririririsss") or whether you were too busy spawn-camping the enemy's roller door with sticky-bombs during warmup to pay any attention :)


last edited by parabol at 15:50:11 21/Jan/08

Do you need a kick ass machine to play TF2?? I've got like a 2.4gig first gen P4 and 6600GT

Don't quote me but I believe the requirements would be on the same order as those for CS:S. Seeing as I ran that alright on my 6600GT, it should be an acceptable card if you drop the settings to say Medium. Your CPU will probably let you down a bit though.

Officially:

Minimum: 1.7 GHz Processor, 512MB RAM, DirectX® 8 level Graphics Card, Windows® Vista/XP/2000, Mouse, Keyboard, Internet Connection

Recommended: Pentium 4 processor (3.0GHz, or better), 1GB RAM, DirectX® 9 level Graphics Card, Windows® Vista/XP/2000, Mouse, Keyboard, Internet Connection

Nitro that will work but you won't get the true awesomeness that TF2 can be.

My bro plays on a similar machine, AMD 3200+ 1 gig o ram and a 6600GT, it runs okayish but it hurts my brain watching it after playing on my 8800GTS rig.

I play on my 1st-gen Macbook Pro (under windows of course). 2Ghz Core Duo, 2GB ram, 256MB ATI x1600 @ 1440x900 with the bling at about half way. Runs pretty smooth, tho it could be better (as is always the case :P)

You can play TF2 on lower end machines, Yours would be fine to play in close to or even max settings Nitro.

I agree the Pyro needs a secondary function, a defensive one. I like the idea of a short firewall. Softens targets up that are trying to assault you.

The pyro's job is to stop rushes dead and/or soften them up for the rest of the team. If there is a group of people rushing towards a cap point, jumping into the middle of them and burninating everything usually makes them run around looking for a medic or health packs and the rush is effectively stopped.
In the case of a clan, they would not stop the rush and continue as normal (or they should) they would be down on health and easier to kill by rockets and whatnot.

A smaller job of the pyro, as mentioned above by Strex, is to be the anti-spy. The only problem with having firewalls would be that spy's would find it much harder to get behind the enemy (if they run through a firewall they catch on fire reveal themselves).

anit-spy is a smaller job of the pyro? what the? I'd say it's at least half the pyro's workload.

it's a smaller job of everyone on the team to be anti-spy, but the pyro can do it most effectively, and being that he's often not effective on offense then it's not a waste of an attacking class to be so spy-focused. plus he means the spy can't hide by cloaking while they're still on fire.

Saint were you playing as scout the other night? Can't remember which server I was on at the time - either GA or internode, 2fort-only.

My son plays as Saint, or SaintlyOne. He actually picked up the nick all by himself, I keep telling him to change it...

Do you need a kick ass machine to play TF2?? I've got like a 2.4gig first gen P4 and 6600GT

I played on something similar, and it wasnt so bad for classes like soldier/demo/medic/eng. Classes like sniper/scout you would want a faster pc tho.

I was defending as pyro on gravelpit and the enemy team cleaned up at point B and as they were capping B I came up behind them through the main entrance into the building and cleaned up about 5 guys defended the point and walked out of there with half health... was a f***ing rad moment!

So yeah in the right situations, different classes do it better than others.

Holy crap I soooo wanna play this :(
NEED MORE TIME DAMN IT!

Do you need a kick ass machine to play TF2?? I've got like a 2.4gig first gen P4 and 6600GT

ignore rubba, hes a fps snob

i playo n a barton 2600 and a gt6600 and its totally playable at 1650x1050

yes, you dont get all the eye candy, but sif that matters, id be turning down the detail anyway;

one of the best things about tf2, is how well it runs on older machines;

its so purty at high detail.

i found you have to have i think it was the model detail up a bit otherwise you can't see the range on the sentry guns when you're placing them. friends were talking about how handy that feature was and I was like "it does what?". turned up some details and there it was. HDR is about the only thing I have turned down/off now.

btw my sms alert on my phone is the pyro saying "Incoming!" :D

i only ever play soldier, so i dont need any of that other stuff;

haha, i have no time as engineer (or spy, pyro or demo) at all
and like 35 hours or something as solider;

mmmm, rockety!

my highest is 23hrs for soldier and lowest is 14mins for heavy

31 hours as Soldier
just under 20 each for Medic, Engy, and Pyro
6-ish for both Demo and Scout
2.5 as Spy
1.2 as both Heavy and Sniper

only 2 achievements left too - Impenetrable Defense and With Friends Like These...

I have no life :(

btw my sms alert on my phone is the pyro saying "Incoming!" :D

hah cool, where'd you get that from (or did you record it yourself)?
i wouldnt mind getting some other sounds/quotes

wtb demoman quotes for my phone

i unpacked the file that contains all the audio (one of the .gcf files. can't remember which. google search for a gcf explorer/unpacker and then go exploring and you'll find them eventually).
they're just .wav files, so convert to mp3, copy over bluetooth, then catch the ladies as they all swoon at your feet.

cheers cerb. i just extracted all the taunts. god they are funny.

Someone keen to host some of the better ones for us lazy folk?

nah im too lazy

I've seen SaintlyOne around a bit Mantra, that kid is playing behind your back! ;)

I think I'm past 80 hours for Soldier now, and I'd lost ~50 on a stat reset glitch shortly after beta :/.
Steaming pile of stats

nah im too lazy

Obviously not as lazy as me.

I think I'm past 80 hours for Soldier now, and I'd lost ~50 on a stat reset glitch shortly after beta :/.

haha, thats awesome bones!

how much does soldier rock?

its just like q2 days!!!!

Update here

It continues, "The unlockables aren't just beefed up versions of the weapons, they balance major advantages and disadvantages to fundamentally alter the role of that class.

"The first Medic unlock, for example, is called the Overhealer.Instead of temporarily buffing people's health to 50 percent above their normal maximum, it permanently boosts them to double their standard health. The downside is that it'll be dramatically worse at building Ubercharge - in fact, Valve are toying with not letting it Uber at all."

Details on the Medic's second unlock are scarce, but it's said it'll be another healing ray that alters the way the class plays.

The first unlock is earned by acquiring half of the thirty-five new Medic achievements, the second for acquiring them all. So a bit like Call of Duty 4 multiplayer then?

Sounds damn good IMO.

aslong as the unlockables arent more uber weapons like they say, then im all for them.

The new map style sounds farken sweet, I can't wait to play it :D

I have a feeling theres going to be a billion medics playing when this gets released now though. That will be the biggest problem with only releasing it for one class imo.

Would have been smarter to release an offensive class pack as well as support so there would be a bit of balance in the mad rush to complete the achievements.

fark it. Just release them all at once.

I have a feeling theres going to be a billion medics playing when this gets released now though.

My thoughts exactly... imagine a server with 24 medics :P

There will be the 1 or 2 heavies taking advantage of having a team of medics. Constant, unending supply of sweet sweet Healing juice.

just don't cross the streams

I'm just waiting for a feature so you can remotely punch people through there monitors.

God pub play is so frustrating.

You mean stab them, right CHUB?

You mean stab them, right CHUB?

I lolled heartily.

Update done.

New version of CTF_Well

No badlands it seems yet.

OMG well with CTF!

f*** yes!

bah all they did was turn well into ctf... boring!