I am trying to locate a reliable PDA solution for one of the managers here at work. Ideally I'd like to integrate the mobile and PDA but the offerings I've looked at from O2 and a few others all seem to come with their share of issues that detract from a purchase. (Price isn't really a consideration if the device is good)

The main requirement is that it is easy to monitor and reply to email (via exchange 2003), needs WLAN access and it can't be a pile of s*** that he's going to toss after a week cause its too hard. The guys reasonably tech savy and likes gadgets so if its reliable and easy he'll be happy.

If anyone has a PDA or experience with them that they want to offer up would be much appreciated.

I have to say the Jas Jam's are pretty good... easy to use...

it can't be a pile of s*** that he's going to toss after a week cause its too hard

Then don't get a windows mobile based device. Trust me, blackberry is the only way.

The main difference: Idiots can use blackberries, Idiots can't not break windows mobile devices.

All the partners using blackberries on our BES seem to be happy here.

They have occasional issues, but overall its fine.

I assume the blackberry internet service would be just as good.

I don't like the new bberrys, the screens are just meh.

The jasjams are great though, big screens and doubles as a mobile. has word and excel and acrobat so can open most attachments too. Definatley worth a look (i presume the bb's can do all that too).

JasJam replacement from HTC

http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm

I waited 4 months to buy a new phone waiting for this to come out. Haven't yet been disappointed.

Nice looking phone/PDA Genesis. How good/laggy is the menu navigation? Do you have it rigged up to Push email? Purchase location?

Also the the Blackberry fans, are you running Blackberry Enterprise server for exchange? Wot handsets are you using, 8800 series?

iPod Touch but you need wireless which is kinda gay. Third party software is being made available in February if you can wait that long.

We have a centralised BES. But, you can just use the BIS (Blackberry Internet Service) and connect (i think its up to 10) email accounts to the blackberry.

We allow basically whatever blackberry they want, we officially support 8300's 8800's and 8707's.

I like the Curves, they're nice and small, but still have a full keyboard.

As for JasJam's, go hold one, they're f***ing massive.

I can't understand how anyone would like one? Give me a frikking ipaq or o2 anyday.

They're seriously like 3cm thick.

Blackberry is awesome if you have that option. The 8800 series is great I had to setup a new one on Friday and I really want one now :(.

But if accessing and syncing with Exchange is priority for you then you either have to get Windows Mobile OS handset or Blackberry enterprise server for exchange which is quite exy I believe.

BES = $4000-5000.

Ouch they haven't gotten any better with their charging for BES. I trialled Blackberry 7 years ago when they used to sell you the servers and devices as a package....they wanted $25K then for 2 servers and 5 devices. I'm only looking at running this for 2-3 users so if going the Blackberry path I'd go the express server I think. The lack of 3G on the Blackberries is my greatest concern, hate to spend $$$ on tech that is already superseded.

GSM is not superseeded

Blackberrys are a pain in the arse and useless if you arent gonna install Blackberry enterprise server.

Its all depends how much its going to be used for a phone. A few people I have set them up for dont like the extra bulk and hassle of a pda-phone, others cant live without the email integration via activesync, which is already built into 2003 server so no need for a new server and extra cost.

The jas-jams are pretty good, ive got a k-jam, its ok, jas-jams are definatly better.

There is even an activesync client for sony phones that run symbian, that works well too.

Talking GPRS, the device will probably never leave metro area.

If you're concerned about data speeds, Telstra runs EDGE on their 2GSM network which all the current Blackberry devices will happily use (I think they're still the only ones in the country that have one?).. Think off the top of the head you're looking at about 230kbit/s compared to 38.4kbit/s on GPRS.

If you're not wanting to setup the BES, then BIS will work quite happily with your exchange server - Easist way (and what RIM will suggest too) is to put a forwarding rule onto the exchange server that points to each BB handheld's email address (the xxx@carrier.ap.blackberry.net one you make when you sign up). Works pretty much flawlessly + in comparison to using Push on a Jasjam/dopod/o2 etc, it's much cheaper - Pretty sure most of the carriers who provide Blackberry in AU now have unlimited email traffic etc as part of the plans..


As for the JasJam, I think they're awesome (I own one) but found that was only after I undertook the effort of upgrading it to Windows Mobile 6 and sticking a newer radio ROM onto the device.. Probably a little bit too much hassle for most, especially if you're worried about someone getting frustrated with it & tossing it away after a week.

darkjedi knows the score

my BB 8800 (govt issue) runs edge and its in no way slow

Yeah the new 8800 with EDGE is pretty spiffy I wish my BB supports EDGE at least :(

um... I know I have users with 3G blackberries...
isn't it the 8707?

(after checking)

$679.00 INC GST Description BLACKBERRY 8707V 3G ENTERPRISE

No NextG blackberries

Nobody should expect NextG on anything, And besides, I'd rather suffer with GPRS for life than support a nextG device.

We have ~ 1000 NextG cards at work, throughout australia, and our problem ticket for poor signal strength had something like 300 incidents attached.

The problem ticket for crappy software causing bugs (We have the lovely ZTE MF332 - lucky us) also has around 300 incidents linked.

You can get blackberry enterprise for free for 10 or under. -
you still have to buy cals though.

Just set it up about a month ago, pretty solid and works better than ms's push exchange attempt.

Blackberry 8707g user here.....not sure about behind the scenes specs at HO but for user friendliness i find it great...
wireless synch for Outlook, plus reads, word, excel, adobe....
had a couple of previous models also (7100g & the old grey screen one) and same same......easy to use, great for email and calander and phone....plus use bluetooth in car kit (blue ant) and motorola ear piece.....all also good....

I have a Orange SPV M700 with Windows Mobile 6, its awesome!

Only problem is lack of a keyboard, but i like using the touch screen.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-devices/review/2007/04/26/Orange-SPV-M700/p1

Orange doesn't exist as itself in Australia.

They also don't sell their smartphones.

For business customers thats pointless.

I used to have a Jas Jam, which was awesome, however I just picked up my new phone yesterday which is even better

http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm

The HTC Tytyn 2, very very slick and cool phone :)
I think they are around $1200 retail

Where did you obtain the HTC TyTn from Eds?

I was at the end of my contract with 3 so I went with them and got it on a plan.

You can also get them from Expansys, who I have bought from in the past and have been really helpful and friendly.

If I was going to go down the pocket pc path, I'd be looking at http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_htctouch_dual.htm.

Replacement for the HTC Touch - The Touch Dual.

Its a slider now, but still has their funky touchscreen system.

Those things do look sweet :) I love the HTC phones, so much community support for apps and roms.

Jasjams use nextg for data connection and will fall back to gprs (once you do the software upgrade).

I dont know why people love these blackberrys so much, I guess the phones are pretty ok, but they are just a pain in the arse when they dont work, and having to install BES just to get the functionality that activesync already has seems like a waste of time and money.

As for forwarding emails, yes that works but doesnt give you a proper outlook sync functionality.

I dont know how the blackberry people convinced everyone to use their solution when the MS push email system is already there and essentially free. People ask me about these blackberry things they have heard about and lots of people have and if they should get one and what it will do for them.

Once you explain to them what it does and the fact it will cost them alot of money to do it and that they can already do all the same functions with their existing server they generaly agree that its pointless.

Yes ms push email has issues sometimes, but so does blackberry enterprise server, and I know which one i'd rather support.

Can someone with a blackberry explain to me what all the fuss is about, apart from the actual handsets.

Viper, there are many reasons why blackberry is superior in the corporate environment.

1. Policies are piss easy to manage.
2. You can lock the f***er remotely if a deads*** manager loses it
3. activesync is in no way reliable, whether by touching the PC or over GPRS etc
4. the actual handsets are no where near as complex, expensive or failure-prone as windows mobile devices.

Ps at my work we have about 20 windows mobile devices remaining and about 200 blackberries. We spend as much time supporting the WMD (heh nice acronym) as we do the BBs.

Also, $5k is a drop in the bucket for corporate security and manageability. Plus the handsets are only $600 not $1k - buy enough and you actually save money on the outlay, and then save heaps on support.

Trust me viper, i've seen both sides of the fence, i've had to support both. I was extremely sceptical about BB when it first was introduced, but now I know, blackberry wins hands down any day.

I dont know how the blackberry people convinced everyone to use their solution when the MS push email system is already there and essentially free. People ask me about these blackberry things they have heard about and lots of people have and if they should get one and what it will do for them.

Blackberry has been around for a long time. I remember seeing some at Ipswich City Council 7 years ago or so. MS Push was only new in Exchange2003 ( sp1? ).

And if you want to discuss the pricing factor alone, using MS Activesync means you're paying the gprs charges for all the email which can get expensive - fast. Vs. Blackberry plans that include unlimited email traffic (and unlimited web traffic on the BIS side of things too) for however much they charge per month (pending what carrier I guess - anyone with optus/voda BB able to comment?)..

$29/month for 1Gb data ... I doubt anyone's email will go over that!

I guess in a large enviromnet it has its benefits. When only 4-5 people on the office need it the initial expense is just too much.

Comparing Blackberry to WM6 just for interest - is this similar for WM6 when comparing it to features offered by Blackberry?

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobiledevicemanager/default.mspx

I just read the announcement. It's a stepping stone at least.

Do blackberry's have wifi and/or web browser?

If you want a NextG PDA that easily and competently doubles as a phone, go the Palm Treo 750.

The second offering from Palm running Windows Mobile, and with the recent free upgrade for the 750 to a very stable and fast Windows Mobile 6 OS, you can't go wrong.

I have used a lot of phones, PDAs and converged devices, as a matter of fact its my speciality, and out of all the Windows Mobile devices I've tried the Treo 750 takes the cake in just about every regard.

Failing that, a Blackberry 8800 would probably be my second choice, but only if you end up running it on Blackberry Enterprise.

Do blackberry's have wifi and/or web browser?

Web browser? Yes. And better than WM's browser
WiFi? No. But i had wifi on my old iMate SP5 (WM5 Device) and I can count the number of times i used wifi on it on one hand over a year or two - and they were all for wardriving. No business usage.

Has anyone had any luck setting up Activesync w exchange without a valid certificate ?

"time supporting the WMD (heh nice acronym)"
omg....i hope George Bush doesn't frequent these forums or your in trouble Mr H!!!

The second offering from Palm running Windows Mobile, and with the recent free upgrade for the 750 to a very stable and fast Windows Mobile 6 OS, you can't go wrong.

Yes you can, these are simply awful. The design of the keyboard isnt bad but their roms plainly, suck. If you compare the HTC WM6 rom to the Palm WM6 rom you would know what I mean. Thumbs down for the treo 750 from me :(

Has anyone had any luck setting up Activesync w exchange without a valid certificate ?

If your using WM5, dont bother trying, you need a valid root certificate from someone like verasign or someone like that. If you upgrade to WM6, you no longer have to worry about that crap :)

Eds, god amen

Whens the imate jas jam going windows 6?

it has been for months! google://xdadevelopers

Eds, I call shenanigans re: a valid Cert on WM5.

When I was at Hutch, I did it all the time. There was no way in hell they were going to shell out for a Thawte/Verisign cert, so I had to use a self-signed one.

However, having said that, it was a major pain in the ass to configure properly.

You can help me do it then Ges, its a f***ing pain in the ass

Stinky where exactly

Eds, I call shenanigans re: a valid Cert on WM5.

When I was at Hutch, I did it all the time. There was no way in hell they were going to shell out for a Thawte/Verisign cert, so I had to use a self-signed one.

However, having said that, it was a major pain in the ass to configure properly.

Yes, if you sign it yourself and set it up on a cert server running on exchange you can do it, besides that, you cant unless its a root certificate.

Read your MS notes :P