http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200512/s1527974.htm

Compulsory student union fees suck. So glad they're gone - and I don't even go to uni any more.

I can't believe they went through so quickly. There is gonna be some tears from the union staff...

But still, I guess if you aren't using any services then you shouldn't have to pay.

PS - goodbye uni games.

s*** yes!! So will this be in effect first semester next year? I f***ing hated paying that s*** - all that money and still f***ed up dirt carparks (among other things)? Suck my dick student union.

yeah, yay VSU, as treasurer of one of the sporting clubs I get to turn it into some kind of business.

what a laughable ideological walk down wank alley, no wonder it was so easy to sell the religious nutbar on it.

oh by the way

all that money and still f***ed up dirt carparks (among other things)?

precisely sweet f***-all to do with the student union

WELCOME TO THE HOwarD DICTATORSHIP!!!!1111111

As we write the HoWARd Dictatorship is 'desperately' trying to cut a deal to pass its Voluntary Student Unionism (VSU) Bill? This bill will devastate vital student services at universities, denying future generations of students the university experience many of us enjoyed.

Not an uncommon experience mind you, to be devastated by the neo-liberal dictatorship as the latest draconian laws have been passed, prove, regardless of thousands of emails sent to the Dictatorship.

Like no-work-choices, detention-without-charge, sedition-for-unpopular people and scapegoats only. Track and chase, home-detention for unpopular people and scapegoats only and of course the disabled-and-desperate to work directives just to name a few.

All laws that would be applicable to a serious police state and fascist regime.

i would have thought removing compulsory unionism is sort of the EXACT OPPOSITE to a fascist policy.

some people are born arseclowns.

WHAT WOULD LUKE SAY?

precisely sweet f***-all to do with the student union

Guess what - I don't go to the same uni as you! Ours is, genious!

like the feral journalism students are the only ones against vsu

genious!

Ouch!

last edited by Insom at 19:14:49 09/Dec/05

i just knocked over my bong thats how upset about this i am

whos going to pay for queer single mother student services that they need

ya mum

HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHahhahahHAHAHhahahaHA

liberal students

The Queer Lounge
The Womans Lounge

WHERES THE f***ING MENS LOUNGE.

at uq it's called the red room

the uni I went to didnt seem to have any student funded benefits i used ... anything I used that wasnt to do with the curriculum was organised by buisnesses that operate within the uni

i dont know but the VSU seems like a relic of the 60's where students were protesting to make beneficial changes (even though at the time they didnt) but these days they dont seem to be doing anything useful, ie protesting G8, work relations etc

ive pretty much finished uni as well and am glad to see it go

Quite frankly, the UQ union can die in fire. Their entire argument so far has been "They are going to take our s***!!!".

I can't believe they went through so quickly.

Everything goes through the Senate quickly now :P

last edited by sacred at 04:16:21 10/Dec/05

denying future generations of students the university experience many of us enjoyed.

its not a f***ing social club. going there for 3 hrs a week/subject is enough time spent.

If the unions actually did something that mattered to virtually all students instead of the left wing out-there 20% they do cater for, then they'd have nothing to worry about as everyone would still pay their fees.

The fact they keep saying no one is going to pay anymore simply proves that even they know they do f*** all for the majority of students.

They haven't got a leg to stand on.

I had a person at work try and tell me how horrible the world would be if this thing passed... no more university sporting events, no subsidised gym equipment, no beer festivals and no campus club.

Guess what union retards.. for a university that says it's "for the real world" you sure don't f***ing act like you've ever even SEEN a cluestick. Gyms cost money.. people who use them pay. Sports clubs cost money.. people who use them pay for membership. Beer festivals f***ing MAKE the student union at QUT money so they're not going to stop that. Ditto for the campus club.

"omg they're taking away the lovely marble floors that the overpaid underworked pierced fat bearded lesbian freaks walk on!"

So how much were these fees anyway? More than $100 a year?

^$300. doesnt matter how much it is, the point is we're paying hard earned cash for s*** we don't want.

I can't believe they went through so quickly.

http://www.dest.gov.au/Ministers/Media/Nelson/2005/03/n1062150305.asp

16 March, 2005 MIN 1062/05

The Howard Government has today introduced legislation into Parliament that will make student union payments voluntary.

last edited by Tuco at 10:08:17 10/Dec/05

f***ing good.

pfft, once again people falling for govt bulls*** misrepresenting what unions do with the money

not to mention half the money (at least at UQ) goes to sporting anyway

opinion on the issue is largely decided by people's attitudes in general on socialism vs. pay-for-it-yourself: I personally don't begrudge paying for the union's support and advocacy services, etc, but think subsidising commercial businesses like refectories is indeed unnecessary

in essence a university is not just a qualification factory, it's a place with other s*** going on - culture, support services, sport etc - you should know all this s*** costs money to run before you enrol. there are plenty of other education options for people who just want the cheapest qualification they can afford.

all that said as an exec of a couple of clubs it's probably not the end of the world - there'll be a shakeup where some things disappear and some simply get more expensive

People don't know what they've got till its gone.. this will effect the 'uni life' a lot more than u think.

Sports clubs cost money.. people who use them pay for membership.

I'm president of the tennis club at GUGC this year.. We get about 60-70 members whom we charge a $5 membership fee. thats just over $300. that doesnt even cover the upkeep of the courts which in the past the guild has paid for, let alone starting to cover weekly costs. Ie. we provide informal training sessions twice a week for members and non members. thats $25 a week in tennis balls alone. And we are just 1 small sporting club. There are dozens of clubs like us that provide a range of services that while u may not use all of, its likely you have used 1 of in the past.

And I can't remember who said it, but this is effectivly the end of uni games (which has been probably the best week of the year for me the past couple of years.)

You really can't afford $70 to allow your uni to try and improve your life at uni ?

sanity prevails, huzzah

I can't believe they went through so quickly.

Howard told Unions in 1999 that this would come. University of Sydney’s Union actually lowered the price of membership and tried to be more proactive with its student body … for an entire year. After which it increased the prices twice in one year.

no beer festivals and no campus club.

In the middle of last semester I walked into UQ to see this giant advertising campaign about how much VSU was going to kill the union. It was the combined, VSU “Not our Choice” and RIP “our s***” campaign.

The VSU “Not our choice” basically goes like this. “Students are to stupid to know what they really want on campus. As such, if VSU went in they would spend their money on stupid things and regret not having these services on campus after they go away. “

The RIP “our s***” campaign basically went like this. “They are going to take our s***!!! Everything you like on campus is going to go! Do you remember that thing you liked in first year? It’s f***ing gone! John Howard is going to eat your pizza café and your baby”

In essence the Unions didn’t focus on the one thing that I actually cared about, Student Representation. None of the Student Representatives could think past their own selfish pay packets and meal allowances to consider how student representation would be effected by these changes.

So how much were these fees anyway? More than $100 a year?

About 140 a semester, 60 went to the Union and 60 went to UQ Sports and the rest goes to UQ for secret admin business. It doesn’t sound like much until you realise that:

A) It is due at the same time that all of your other Uni related expenses occur, like books and stuff. Ok, ok, after the first semester you quickly realise that you can miss a few of your books (or all of them). However, sometimes a book or two can make all of the difference and the basic price for any text book is roughly $100.
B) The Union doesn’t focus on supporting students, it focuses on all of its cool s***.

pfft, once again people falling for govt bulls*** misrepresenting what unions do with the money

One of my best friends was the Rep at Ipswich, I have seen the annual budget for the last 3 years.

there are plenty of other education options for people who just want the cheapest qualification they can afford.

20k hecs and 60k federal funding per student doesn’t sound like the cheapest education you can get.

You really can't afford $70 to allow your uni to try and improve your life at uni ?

The social club for IEP (I’m an ex-secretary for it). Like you we charge $5 dollars per member. We do a sausage sizzle every week (that we can) for 50c a sausage in a roll and $1 soft drink. Occasionally we do better BBQ’s, chocoholic days, movie nights, gold class movie nights and we also sell drinks in a fridge space that the program provides (for $1)

At the start of each year we do a big free event (free pizza’s and such) end of each year we fund a trip away for our members.

This year we took them to Coffs Harbour and funded about 50% of it.

Last year we took them to Noosa and funded about 70%. (This was the year I was on the executive, we funded about 2500 dollars worth of trip).

The year before that we took them to Straddy and funded them about 70%.

Maybe instead of crying about how much s*** you are going to loose, work out what else you can do that can generate money in a way that supports your members.

You really can't afford $70 to allow your uni to try and improve my your life at uni ?

I was president of the IT student society this year, and the amount of money we got from the union probably worked out to about $4.50 per member.

Helpful? Yes, but could we do without it? If we increase our fundraising just slightly, and make sure we stay relevant to IT students and not just piss up the money, then also yes.

I'm president of the tennis club at GUGC this year.. We get about 60-70 members whom we charge a $5 membership fee. thats just over $300. that doesnt even cover the upkeep of the courts which in the past the guild has paid for, let alone starting to cover weekly costs. Ie. we provide informal training sessions twice a week for members and non members. thats $25 a week in tennis balls alone. And we are just 1 small sporting club. There are dozens of clubs like us that provide a range of services that while u may not use all of, its likely you have used 1 of in the past.

And I can't remember who said it, but this is effectivly the end of uni games (which has been probably the best week of the year for me the past couple of years.)

So i'm going to tell you the other side of this story. The satellite campus shaft side of the story.

Every year i paid roughly $120. At my campus(Ipswich) there are more than 2500 people. Assuming that there are 2500 people paying full time fees thats $300,000 going into the coffers of UQ sport. And what did UQ ipswich get out of that? Well we had a Gym the size of my lounge room with gear that was old and out of date(i have it on good authority it was the left overs of the old UQ St Lucia gym) that cost us a couple of dollars per visit. Some ovals that no-one can use because they are apparantly permanently pestacided. Oh and some Multi-purpose courts which also cost per visit.

So don't be too suprised if i'm not all that caring of a uni sport's "tragic plight".

You really can't afford $70 to allow your uni to try and improve your life at uni ?

If that $70 improves life at uni so much then why are you worried about me having a choice not to spend it? Maybe because you'll realise i don't give a rat's ass about "pants around your ankles" day at a separate campus to me.

I've run Social club events. It's not hard to break even. If you need a tip here it is... Buy drinks bulk and sell them for a small profit(I.E. so you make money and it costs the buyer less than going elsewhere). OMG THERE IT IS!!! the secret behind IES's $2500 surplus had NOTHING to do with the union! Being a sports club i can offer another suggestion... buy those tubs of gatorade powder... those things are cheap as.

There are effectively two groups of people who benefit from having an awesome tennis centre.

a) The uni (Apparantly having a good sporting section improves the profile of a university. I don't follow that but i'll accept that as gospel truth.)

b) People who play/enjoy watching tennis.

Since i am neither of these people then i don't feel the need to contribute. Now if UQ sports funded a robot wars comp throughout the year i'd probably be budged from that decision... but thats a whole separate argument.

meh im gald to not have to pay the union fees, im at QUT gardens point, and we get f*** all for the money we have to spend, worst thing about it was you could get kiked out of uni for not paying the fees..im glad we dont have to any more.

This is what I want frmo the Union.

Student represenetation.

Cheap insurance.

Student culture and events can be fobbed off to clubs who have access to cheap insurance. Students still pay money, but they are now paying for what they use instead of what some other guy may or may not use.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind spending money on my student culture. Heck, if I add up how much I have spent on my social club it would be vastly more than the 280 a year I spend on UQ Union + UQ Sports. However, that money directly releates to my enjoyment and the enjoyment of my extended cohort.

all that said as an exec of a couple of clubs it's probably not the end of the world - there'll be a shakeup where some things disappear and some simply get more expensive

Funnily enough i actually think the cost of some things will go down or remain relatively constant, at least once one thing happens. They get rid of UQ Catering.

In theory, everyone at UQ has to use UQ Catering for their food. This sounds awesome right? UQ Catering sources the great bulk deals and ensures quality? Except that UQ Catering like every uni department goes by that "Must make a profit" philosophy that some businesses go by. I was physically there when the Ipswich Rep(Same one Typo was talking about) was told that it would cost the UQU $1 per sausage/piece of bread. (Just for those who don't know, IES makes a profit selling at 50c per sausage/piece of bread)

The happiest event she ever ran, the food was "provided by IES" because we could ignore UQ Catering.

So I think the real question on everyones mind is, how will this effect coffee prices?

So I think the real question on everyones mind is, how will this effect coffee prices?

At UQ, Mr Beans is a business franchise that runs at a profit. So not as far as i figure. Unless of course the uni starts charging them to prop up the rest of it's s*** that doesn't work.

"omg they're taking away the lovely marble floors that the overpaid underworked pierced fat bearded lesbian freaks walk on!"

QFT

at uq it's called the red room

But they told me it was the library!

Denis Leary knew what a mens room was ...

I'm gonna open my own place and get away from you nonsmokers and vegetarians. That's what I'm gonna do. I'll open my own place with two smoking sections: "ultra" and "regular," okay? We're not gonna have any tables or any chairs or any napkins or any silverware, none of that stuff. Just a big wide-open black hole and all we're gonna serve is raw meat right on the bone! Only men are gonna eat there -- naked men sitting by a big giant campfire. No men's room either; if you have to go to the bathroom you piss wherever you are and mark your territory like a wolf! If some guy has a heart attack from eating too much meat we'll throw him on the fire -- more meat for the other meat eaters! Because you've got to have goals, folks.

Denis Leary 'No cure for cancer'

The fact they keep saying no one is going to pay anymore simply proves that even they know they do f*** all for the majority of students.

That pretty much sums up how I see it too. Now instead of being able to sit on their collective arses and know money will just come in no matter what, the student unions are going to have to actually earn it. They're going to have to do stuff worth paying for, they're going to have to actually earn the students' respect, they're going to have to pick up their game.

in essence a university is not just a qualification factory, it's a place with other s*** going on - culture, support services, sport etc - you should know all this s*** costs money to run before you enrol. there are plenty of other education options for people who just want the cheapest qualification they can afford.

If I was choosing a uni to go to, I'd be choosing it based on the different degree programs, or whatever I was wanting to do, that they had on offer. The quality of their bar or their gym or their social club or their tennis club or anything else extra-curricular wouldn't even factor into the equation for me. I dont need to go to uni to get all those things if I want them, I'd be going to uni for the education, the rest is just frills.

Agree with most people in this thread. I spent four years at Sydney Uni and pretty much got sweet f*** all back from my Union fees. The "subsidised" food was pretty much normal retail price with the normal price being expensive, and the quality was pretty damn low.

I spent more on Student Union fees than I did on my textbooks for f***s' sake.

Compulsory membership of any organisation, particularly quasi-political ones like student unions, should be outlawed. I was 24 when I started Uni and went back as a vocational exercise to improve my employment prospects in IT.

It s*** me no end to have to scrounge up a fat wad of cash and watch it get spent on s*** that I didn't care about.

I'm a bit dubious about some of the stuff that the Gov has hammered through the Senate, but VSU ain't one of them. I just wish it had happened when I was still studying.

last edited by Hogfather at 16:34:30 10/Dec/05

unfortunately for things like support services etc (remembering that I am not defending subsidising commercially viable things like refectories) if only those who would use such things pay up, they won't have enough money to survive.

so yes, student unions could be forced to shape up, and get rid of the waste, but this no-compromise approach is far too much and obviously a misguided attempt to quash non conservative politics

why not just clamp down on the political character of unions?

the UQ catering as someone mentioned is an interesting case. for instance, if you want to have a function on UQ union property, you have to use them, but it might work out to be a good deal - you can work something out where the hire of the venue is free provided you use their catering. obviously it is up to the club whether the relatively expensive chow plus free venue adds up to a good deal.

as mentioned elsewhere, clubs and societies are in a good position to make up the shortfall through effective fundraising. our society, for instance, used a different approach where we used higher quality ingredients for less profit, but the extra people would allow us to get more members.

so it's not the union-affiliated clubs and socs I'm worried about, it's the UQ sport affiliated ones such as mine. if there is no longer enough money to maintain the facilities, it isn't really going to matter whether the club itself is viable.

f*** you spam some s*** typo

i bet you sat right at the front of all your lectures

f*** you spam some s*** typo

Intellectual debate at its finest …

i bet you sat right at the front of all your lectures

If only you had bet on once!

unfortunately for things like support services etc (remembering that I am not defending subsidising commercially viable things like refectories) if only those who would use such things pay up, they won't have enough money to survive.

so yes, student unions could be forced to shape up, and get rid of the waste, but this no-compromise approach is far too much and obviously a misguided attempt to quash non conservative politics

why not just clamp down on the political character of unions?

The thing that weirds me out about the VSU=Squashing Political Opinions deal is that while it may change the way political opinions are expressed(I.e. the union can't afford to bail people out if they get arrested for being f***wads) i very hugely seriously doubt it will stop the expression of political viewpoints. How much does it actually cost to run a political rag on a shoestring budget?

Also i don't believe the support stuff needs to run on a wholely user pays thing. Business is more than willing to throw money at unions for advertising(There's some serious stuff in that uq showbag thats handed out in o'week and then discarded once people get the diary out of it) if you throw together a voucher's book for the instant gratification and then a membership card(can't join a club without it because you're not covered by union insurance) you can get people to come up with the support involved as "teh suck insurance". If the uni is trying to shaft you because you have terminal lazy prick's disease it could cost you upwards of <insert novelty sized charge here> per hour unless you're a MEMBER! In which case it's FREE!

Also... those student deals at Birch etc... remove them from the student card and put them into the Union card!

the UQ catering as someone mentioned is an interesting case. for instance, if you want to have a function on UQ union property, you have to use them, but it might work out to be a good deal - you can work something out where the hire of the venue is free provided you use their catering. obviously it is up to the club whether the relatively expensive chow plus free venue adds up to a good deal.

If you're a UQ affliate(i.e. UQU rep or club/soc) you can hire a room in the uni for profit sharing(10% of profits i believe is the charge). Thats my understanding anyway. I don't mind UQC gouging randoms, it's when they gouge the union that makes me wonder.

i bet you sat right at the front of all your lectures

I bet you were the one sitting at the back of all your lectures and providing for my 3rd year by dropping out.

Unfortunately for things like support services etc (remembering that I am not defending subsidising commercially viable things like refectories) if only those who would use such things pay up, they won't have enough money to survive

I agree, the real loser out of this are students who get in trouble and the University itself won’t help them. However, the same logic that works in social clubs can work with unions; find events that both supports students, make a profit and then spend those profits in needed areas. This is a simular business model to what non-profit business uses.

Will that mean that the queer and women’s rooms wont be able to be funded by the majority of students anymore? On noes! Maybe they need to make a Women’s Social Club, and run events. You know, things like Queer awareness week, reclaim the night, sexuality week and so on.

so it's not the union-affiliated clubs and socs I'm worried about, it's the UQ sport affiliated ones such as mine. if there is no longer enough money to maintain the facilities, it isn't really going to matter whether the club itself is viable.

I honestly don’t know of the situation at other Universities because I haven’t been there. So, I’ll talk about UQ. UQ loves having prestige sporting facilities on campus, they say (and I am willing to believe) that it adds to the prestige of the campus. This is extended to having prestigious sportspeople competing all around the world.

They love sports so much that some of federal funding allocated to UQ goes into maintaining the vast quantities of sporting equipment around campus. The ovals are a prime example, but to a lessor extent the pool and all of the courts and fields get some funding from UQ.

Assume for a minute that UQ Sport looses all of its non-student members and they get no revenue from student service, what would happen to all of these facilities? The result would be that the University would reclaim these features and maintain them. Why?

A) Having broken resources looks awful, which lowers the prestige of the University grounds.
B) Having no sporting teams using them, lowers the prestige of the University.

Universities with more prestige get more students. Ergo anything a University can do to raise its prestige is a good thing. Ergo, the facilities will be maintained by the University. UQ Sports doesn’t want to loose its autonomy, which is really why they are crying. UQ doesn’t really want the administrational overhead of running the sporting stuff, which is why they are crying.

If anything UQ Sports already can generate funding that isn’t based on student services fees, the general public. Which is a vastly different position to Clubs, Soc and student support services.

try to keep your essays to 3000 words typo

A) Having broken resources looks awful, which lowers the prestige of the University grounds.
B) Having no sporting teams using them, lowers the prestige of the University.

Universities with more prestige get more students. Ergo anything a University can do to raise its prestige is a good thing. Ergo, the facilities will be maintained by the University. UQ Sports doesn’t want to loose its autonomy, which is really why they are crying. UQ doesn’t really want the administrational overhead of running the sporting stuff, which is why they are crying.

So now instead of spending money on stuff like labs and so on that can be usefull to students education they have to waste it upkeeping sports equipment awesome.

All you guys who say you didn't get squat from your guild fees have only yourselves to blame, you only get out what you put in. And you guys put notihng in you just went there for your peice of paper when you could have gotten involved with a club and been more then just like every other chump at uni. Thanks for all the beer guys I really enjoyed it, though it might have been nice if you joined in, we could have drunk together.

So now instead of spending money on stuff like bureaucracy and graft that can be frustrating to a students education they have to waste it upkeeping sports equipment awesome.

Fixed that for you.

I am mixed over this one.

Personally I disliked the existing system, too many minority bulls*** student groups that get union based funding. (The colleges at UQ abuse the system to get kegs of beer paid for).
As a part time, Australian, white, healthy(sort of), hetero male student I got basically no benefit out of the mandatory fee.

But I can see that student facilities are important. Perhaps now they can streamline them a bit get rid of the crap and keep the high usage things.

All you guys who say you didn't get squat from your guild fees have only yourselves to blame, you only get out what you put in. And you guys put notihng in you just went there for your peice of paper when you could have gotten involved with a club and been more then just like every other chump at uni. Thanks for all the beer guys I really enjoyed it, though it might have been nice if you joined in, we could have drunk together.

^ your union fees at work

last edited by cs_master at 19:33:52 10/Dec/05

More beer for me

So now instead of spending money on stuff like labs and so on that can be usefull to students education they have to waste it upkeeping sports equipment awesome.

What?

More prestige == more students.
More students == more funding.

More funding == good incentive.

All you guys who say you didn't get squat from your guild fees have only yourselves to blame, you only get out what you put in.

Or maybe the vast majority of money goes into things that I am not interested in?

And you guys put notihng in you just went there for your peice of paper when you could have gotten involved with a club and been more then just like every other chump at uni. Thanks for all the beer guys I really enjoyed it, though it might have been nice if you joined in, we could have drunk together.

Did you read the thread? It should be more than apparent that many of the people who are proponents of VSU are heavily involved in club level activities. What they want is the choice in how their money is invested.

Then start a club that's into your things it's not like it's hard.

Most of the proponents of VSU are just whinney dicks who would make excellent guild excutives if they were gay. Just becuuse they are uneducated about what's available doesn't make them right.

the problem with student unions is money is wasted on things like clubs that do nothing for anyone but the people who run them or the people who run the student union itself

sporting clubs/on campus gyms are one thing, but clubs that exist for no reason other than to have one or two drunken events are year are a massive waste of money

clearly gundum you were one of those people abusing the system

Buls*** I worked hard to get that free beer the vast majority of which came from club fundrasing and not directly from the guild.

vsu is ok but i'll probably pay for it anyway, get discounts on uq sport stuff and feel like a nice guy chipping in

This was a piss poor troll, but I have nothing better to do at the moment …

Then start a club that's into your things it's not like it's hard.

Does being a founding member and later a secretary of a UQ club count? If so, been there done that. For the record the amount of funding we received from UQ was minimal, the only thing we had any interest in was the insurance. In fact, IIRC the club this year didn’t hand in its members lists (thus negating it from being funded) for both semesters, because the amount of money wasn’t worth the time.

Most of the proponents of VSU are just whinney dicks who would make excellent guild excutives if they were gay. Just becuuse they are uneducated about what's available doesn't make them right.

I saw only 3 pieces of pro-VSU politics on campus compared to the thousands upon thousands of dollars that was spent on anti-VSU advertising. Who was the whiny dick again? Oh, that’s right the Union was.

As for being uneducated about what the Union offers, I’d have to say I disagree with you there too. One of my best friends was the Student Reprehensive for UQI, and trust me when I say I have heard it all. From reading annual reports, though to getting the advertising campaign on why the women’s room is important or why UQ Sports can’t provide Ipswich with facilities.

---

If you are worried that beer festivals will be gone, don’t be. Events such as the beer festival make f***loads of money and won’t be going away anytime soon.

Buls*** I worked hard to get that free beer the vast majority of which came from club fundrasing and not directly from the guild.

Which is a good thing as with UQ(and be extension i assume everywhere else), there are regulations about spending union money on alcohol. (The loophole that the college uses afaik is that they don't care what you spend money other than subsidy money so if you charge $100 to join you can use that $100/person to buy alcohol... also maybe the colleges use different rules to clubs and socs.) Funnily enough i know one of the founding members of the "Beer Appreciation Society" that caused this rule to go in place.

Buls*** I worked hard to get that free beer the vast majority of which came from club fundrasing and not directly from the guild.

I’d say something like “come back when you have a point”, but this is QGL after all.

OMFG TYPO WAS THE SECRETARY WELL DONE DID YOU GET ELECTED OMFG AUTHORITY HERE

this thread is boring

cough up the cash fools

St Leo's used to have Paradise Beach Appreciation Society and other BS "clubs" to get booze.

Buls*** I worked hard to get that free beer the vast majority of which came from club fundrasing and not directly from the guild.

lol whatever i'm sure that fundrasing (nice spelling fag) came from students anyway, and isn't the point of the fundraising to do something for the students, not get someone who happens to be part of the in-crowd of a club get drunk

you're only anti-vsu because now you have to pay for your own beers, oh no

all the useful clubs have people like you to blame for losing funding, congrats

you're to blame for vsu, you should go outside and punch yourself in the face

union-affiliated clubs can and do use their own money for beer, and why not, it's their money

this INCLUDES money raised through membership joining fees (generally only about $5 per club, though it can go as low as $2)

but subsidy provided by the union can NOT be spent on booze, because they don't just give you the money, you have to provide them with receipts that prove the money wasn't spent on booze, before you get the money.

drinks at our end of year function were paid for by a sponsor, and naturally they don't give a rat's arse how you spend the money.

union alcohol policy is quite "enlightened" these days, not like say 1999 when clubs could still openly offer cheap drink deals at Rowers and the like, these days you can pretty much only mention the name of the venue and imply that members might gain something by going there, but don't count on it because pubs/clubs are no longer allowed to advertise cheap drinks either.

last edited by Insom at 22:07:52 10/Dec/05

you can get a rough breakdown of what QUT student guild spends money on here.

they make a pretty big killing from gown hire. also they spend more on women,queers, and indigenous than they spend on sports. and almost as much on campus directors than they spend on clubs. + someone is probably embezzling money through the cafe that had a budgeted loss of 6,000 but managed to lose 50,000. I'm guessing these figures make more sense if I had a copy of the full guild budget. The cafe probably needed some work on its building or something. But unfortunately they stopped replying to my emails, so I'm just going to conjure up my own paranoid interpretations.

last edited by hast at 00:02:01 11/Dec/05

Personally I disliked the existing system, too many minority bulls*** student groups that get union based funding. (The colleges at UQ abuse the system to get kegs of beer paid for).

I'll vouch for that, me and some mates at Kings started the 'Plugger Appreciation Society' and got plenty of free boze and pluggers out of it. But that loophole was closed long ago, halfway through my third year to be exact :/

I had a friend on a student council for UQ.

He had a fully paid trip to New Zeland, so did the rest of the council, what for you ask? Nothing they couldnt do in a boardroom at the Uni.
All proudly paid for by the Student Union Fees. He told heaps of people what it was being spent on, he thought it was a rawt. No one cared.

The thing that s***s me about VSU is that nobody recognises the real purpose of VSU.

Supporters of VSU argue that the purpose of VSU is to ensure that no one has to subsidise services provided to another person, the person using them will pay for them. Opponents argue that the people who use said services can't afford to pay for them.

The fact we are having this argument at all is evidence of the fact that the government has conned us into estimating the worth of student unions solely for their ability to deliver services (ie immedeate financial benefit) to students. We seem to have collectively forgotten that student unions have another vitally important function.

Student representation. That is to give students sufficient power to help shape the direction of society where it affects student issues. Take the recent student fee hikes. Student unions spent much time presenting the student viewpoint on this issue. In the end, it might not have done any good, but at least everyone knew what students collectively thought.

(Answering a criticism right here, some people will say that the student unions position did not match their own. Well the student union's position is decided by the student union's executive which is elected every year by the student body. So if you chose not to vote, and it then turned out that the candidates elected didn't represent your viewpoint, stfu and go back to wanking yourself.)

The problem is that students are collectively affected by the decisions taken by governemnts etc. Therefore, as a stakeholder, they deserve to have a voice within that arena. The thing I find concerning about VSU is that it will reduce the ability of students to be heard in debates about issues that could disadvantage students. Simply put, when you have a cashed up government, cashed up industries and cashed up universites sparing no expense to put their case, it could look like some poor bastard on trial for murder defending himself against 15 or 20 high priced lawyers.

However, by cleverly shifting the focus of student unions to service delivery, the government manouvres them into the position of having to provide an immedeate net financial benefit for their members. The government would love to reduce student unions to little more than another discount card program that you can sign up for. "Pay $200 a semester and potentially save $500 on services like on campus food and alcohol, on campus sports facilities, discounts on second hand texts..."

Look at it this way...

If you stopped paying taxes tomorrow, and instead paid for whatever the government currently pays for, whenever you used it, would you come out worse off or better off? Simply, most people would come out better off. So, generally speaking the government doesn't provide value for money based purely on the services they deliver. Therefore we should immedeately make tax voluntary right? I mean who needs governments that waste all that money on useless activities like making regulations about how our employers treat their employees right?

Some things have benefits other than financial ones...

The reason why student representation isn't pushed hard as an argument is because a lot of people find compulsory political organizations icky.

student unions are the biggest rip job on the planet

not having to pay is awesome and can only be good news

(Answering a criticism right here, some people will say that the student unions position did not match their own. Well the student union's position is decided by the student union's executive which is elected every year by the student body. So if you chose not to vote, and it then turned out that the candidates elected didn't represent your viewpoint, stfu and go back to wanking yourself.)

My understsanding is that the "Student Union"'s position is basically mandated by NUS(the National Union of Students). Considering that the UQI representative has a hard enough time affecting politics at UQ... they're going to be completely unrepresented at the national level.

But let me also offer a counter-point. What am i really voting for? Two elections ago i made a point of looking at the campaign promises of the various parties and most of them, even where they weren't obviously joke tickets, were made out of fairy dust and bulls***. One of the worst of the bunch was the "Jolt" ticket which run a campaign promising a) things that are blatantly beyond the Student Unions control(Subway on SL Campus, 100% wireless coverage of St Lucia) or b) already put into legislature and just waiting to be implemented (5c photocopying at ipswich, General Store at ipswich). There were a couple of items that even ran into the category c) Just plain bulls***(particularly when taken into the context of their other promises).

I generally feel that politics as a whole is a huge smoke and mirrors campaign where the victims.. er i mean voters are left with the unpleasant task of picking the best pig in a poke while in the dark... and unconscious. The only check on the whole system is based on reputation, i know some people who won't vote labour because of the L-A-W Law of Paul Keating. Unfortunately this doesn't work for Union Reps.

The thing I find concerning about VSU is that it will reduce the ability of students to be heard in debates about issues that could disadvantage students.

As i mentioned earlier... i hugely seriously doubt that VSU has or even was intended to have any effect on student political unrest. Why? Because thats just a dumb logic. How much does a grass roots political campaign actually cost? We're talking a little bit of organisation(i.e. from someone like... a campus representative), some awareness of what's going on so as to alert the student body that something is happening(i.e. like what the UQI rep did on a more or less daily basis for an hour, scan the papers plus a NUS mailing list), and a little bit of money to pay for advertising on campus.

The simple point that i'd like to make is that there is one thing that the Union is there for. Representation. Representation when it comes to the political arena is possibly as important as the academic arena. So in my mind the two are inseparable job duties. And as was commented on the QUT budget... you'll notice that representation is not where all the money is going. While i have no real issues with UQU spending big on "Queer Sexuality week" or "Reclaim The Night"... the simple truth is that's not got anything to do with representing _students_. It's representing Queers and Females. Ergo if those things were separate(if affiliated) entities and did their own fund raising(You know you people would buy a queer's sausage on a hot dog roll if it was cheap enough... don't deny it) then things would be at least better if not perfect.

The problem is that students are collectively affected by the decisions taken by governemnts etc. Therefore, as a stakeholder, they deserve to have a voice within that arena.

To Paraphrase you "Answering a criticism right here, some people will say that the Government's position did not match their own. Well the Government's position is decided by the government's representatives which is elected every year by the country. So if you chose not to vote, and it then turned out that the candidates elected didn't represent your viewpoint, stfu and go back to wanking yourself.". I did my part... i voted labour. How about you? Funnily enough when the dock workers or the truckies or some other unioned institution's members are adversely affected by some governmental decision their union does a nice little advertising campaign/spot on the news trying to change australia's viewpoint as a whole... And they've been made non-compulsory for years now. What makes the student union so different? Because student's are too stupid to join? There are two rebuttals to this A) Student's that are too stupid to join are too stupid to vote in a representative that reflects their concerns... so if this is true then you're basically saying the Union is a big exercise in wasting time and money and B) so long as while they're under 18 (For the majority of school leavers thats their first year) information about the union gets sent to their parents, it probably won't be about whether the students are too stupid but if the parents are.

Don't get me wrong... yours is the strongest argument i've heard(and you may be suprised to know i have heard it before) and I STILL support VSU because the argument is weak and alarmist. It ignores the nature of politically minded students and it ignores the nature of the problem.

In short... i don't see VSU as hampering for even a millisecond either aspect of representation so long as the unions wise up and start planning for the future. Hell the one VSU rally i went to at UQI actually made money from the bbq and drinks... if they had've organised more it would've funded the biggest thing i have seen come out of UQU in the past year.

last edited by Xyzzy at 19:46:36 11/Dec/05

The Workplace Relations Act entrenches the right to freedom of association - it is illegal to make a worker join a union. Similarly, based on the concept of universal individual freedom it is also wrong to force students to join a student union.

Universities are a business. Much like your mobile phone provider, if you do not like the service you are getting from your uni, you change unis. At great inconvenience but that's life.

I get so sick and tired of these pathetic sob stories of people who claim they have been shafted by the uni administration. When I went to uni (7 years ago), it was the most sheltered place I dare say existed in society (apart fro the public service). It is basically impossible to fail anything if you have a beating heart.

And as for the student union it was a disgraceful excuse for an organisation. Because they were fat lazy and complacent due to the never ending stream of income from government sanctioned taxation.

Now just like employee unions they are required to justify their relevance and engage their clients. Sorta reminds me of the music downloading thing - how do you convince someone to pay for music when they can already get it for free?

Well I suppose we are about to find out...

student unions are the biggest rip job on the planet

not having to pay is awesome and can only be good news

Not having a go at you Spook(in some ways i agree with you) but this sentiment is precisely the reason why the student unions have made their own bed and for my care they can f***ing lie in it. They knew this was going to happen YEARS AGO not this year.. not even last year. They've known it was all but a fait accompli 6 months ago(i have that on personal authorisation from the only two worthwhile people to be the union representative in the time anyone i know has been going to UQI).

My response to that would have been to make students so goddamn happy with the union that the merest thought of not joining the union is met with laughter as if the guy was joking. Now maybe i'm some towering intellectual that can make logical leaps that no mere mortals could... but as far as i can tell i'm at best slightly above average on mathematical things and pretty ordinary when it comes to long range planning... so why instead did the union spend more on their anti VSU campaign than they did on any other events? Why spend all of that time and goodwill fighting a suicidal last stand that barring act of god you can't win?

I dunno.. you tell me.

Wont anyone please think of the drinking fountains.

without unions in place, students will have $300-600 more a year cash to play with

with that money they can spend it where they please on efficient services that they actually need

no clowns will be throwing their money at useless protesters, or unnecessary events, or pissing it up in the campus bar

The thing that s***s me about VSU is that students are too stupid to understand the real purpose of VSU.

There, fixed it for you.


last edited by typo at 00:09:03 12/Dec/05

Student representation. That is to give students sufficient power to help shape the direction of society where it affects student issues.

As far as I understood it, the Howard government wasnt getting the voting numbers out of the youth. So damage control dictated that Howard should cut off the youth's voice so that it would be easier to persuade them to vote for him. VSU means less money for student publications such as news papers. :/

As far as I understood it, the Howard government wasnt getting the voting numbers out of the youth. So damage control dictated that Howard should cut off the youth's voice so that it would be easier to persuade them to vote for him. VSU means less money for student publications such as news papers. :/

Where do you get your figures on youth votes for the Coalition? While there is a very noisy left faction at most Universities I had seen on TV recently news that there had been a large (and quiet) swing towards the right on many campuses.

And if the Government wanted to grab some more youth votes I reckon VSU may have been the way to go - you can see many young students in this thread alone welcoming it. It was a very easy way to positively impact on the financial life of many students, to the tune of what 400 on average per student per year, and it didn't cost them anything.

Good points, but Australia's youth is mostly right anyway.

Those might be contributing factors but not primary reasons.

ahh uni games. Student Guild Subsidised Melbourne $300. No student union - im guessing around $1000.

Not other students problem.

CAMPUS CULTURE

Where do you get your figures on youth votes for the Coalition? While there is a very noisy left faction at most Universities I had seen on TV recently news that there had been a large (and quiet) swing towards the right on many campuses.

the silent majority. Not only that, all the protesters and loud minorities aren't neccessarily lefties, they are just 'anti-anything'. Usually establishment and/or the govt in power at the time.

he silent majority. Not only that, all the protesters and loud minorities aren't neccessarily lefties, they are just 'anti-anything'. Usually establishment and/or the govt in power at the time.

Often they are not even students.

CAMPUS CULTURE

WILL STILL EXIST... GET A NEW f***ING TUNE IDIOT!