Doom3, the highly anticipated upcoming horror game based on the doom franchise has been submitted for classification in Australia, suggesting that release is now very close, with no new content expected to be added to the game.

The upcoming new game by idsoftware, and Activision is based on a brand-new engine from the undisputed master of game engine development, John Carmack from idsoftware. This is the first engine seen by John Carmack since the Quake3 engine three years ago, which is still being used in game releases today, and will be used on the upcoming Call of Duty expansion pack.

It is expected that the new game engine used in the upcoming Doom3 will power many games for the next few years, with other highly anticipated games such as Quake 4 already being actively developed on it.

According to the Australian Office of Film and Literature classification Doom3 will be classified MA 15+ (MEDIUM LEVEL ANIMATED VIOLENCE, HORROR THEME), and was classified by it on the 21st of June.

Due to the lack of an R rating in Australia this was expected, the game is listed as multi-format suggesting no significant changes to content between platforms. An MA 15+ rating means that it is illegal to sell the game to any person under the age of 15 years old. Of significant interest is that an MA rating also means that it is illegal for a Net Café to offer the game to its players, since its illegal to show any MA rated content in a public place. This also includes LAN events and any other event targeted toward a public Audience.

If Counter-Strike is anything to go by however, organizers and game café owners will completely ignore laws relating to classification, and continue to get away with it, with the OLFC seemingly unable to apply any sort policing of the laws its charged to uphold.

Of interest as a side note the game was recently rated 18+ by the German classification board, who are renowned for their sensitivity to depicted violence in computer games. Keep an eye on the Doom3 official website for upcoming release announcments.

Surely all it would need to get around that for public exhibition is an included violence filter?

And a horror theme filter? How does one reduce the violence and horror in a game like Doom 3?

How would an R rating help net cafes though? They still wouldn't be able to display these things in a public place.

How does one reduce the violence and horror in a game like Doom 3?

That one's easy. Remove all the monsters and it can become a game of jumping puzzles and box puzzles.

How does one reduce the violence and horror in a game like Doom 3?

Wait 3 months and auto-apply whatever graphic tweaks the pros are using, and then all you'll have is blue and red stick men running around at high speed collapsing to the ground occasionally.

last edited by natslovR at 10:06:14 06/Jul/04

Remove all the monsters and it can become a game of jumping puzzles and box puzzles.

even shrek 2 was violent and that was rated g. i spent most of that game smashing the f*** outta monsters. it was fun though.

I dont care what they rate it...I just want the damn thing!!

:D

What are the chances it will be banned after a little while? How violent does a game have to be before it gets banned these days?

no, i think it has to have boobs in it for that. as soon as sex AND violence are combined people have a cry. you can shoot fountains of blood from someone but you arent allowed to see tits.

What are the chances it will be banned after a little while? How violent does a game have to be before it gets banned these days?

For banning of games, they seem more concerned about sex than violence. GTA was banned because you could hire a hooker and beat her up to get your money back apparrently (I don't really keep up with that sort of thing).

I mean look at that craptastic game Postal 2. It was stupidly violent what with being able to blow peoples heads off with a shotgun, pumping arterial blood in a "real" setting etc etc As well allowing you to urinate on peoples dead bodies (or live bodies for that matter). You could set fire to people and watch them running around in agony, buy "crack" to help you perform better as well as other things but AFAIK this was fine because there was no simulated sex in it. Stupid!

As a side note, I would never let my 12yo play Postal 2, or GTA. However, I'd let him play Q3A. I even let him play CS, but that's an abberation.. I'm sure he'll come to his senses soon.

It would be easier for me as a parent to know the difference between a game like Postal 2 and Doom III just by looking at the rating (As far as I'm concerned, Q3A is a M game, Doom III might be a MA game and Postal 2 is an R game), as opposed to having to find out via news items or actually having to go and look for the info I need before I feel safe buying them.

last edited by Mantra at 11:26:45 06/Jul/04

Mantra you sound like a hard father that doesnt let his son make the wrong decisions for himself and learn for himself. Very protective kinda guy always budling his son up, caused by immence love for him no doubt.

Im only saying this because he is twelve and although previous earlier ages I would not condone playing games of the like i think 12 is a good age to let him start exploring what dark and horrific things are on the internet.

lol, porn, kiddieporn, animalsex, goatsecx, snuff, rotton dot com, anarcistic things, depressive people, pedophiles, how to make weapons, hacking and social subclusion, social engineering and fraud, viruses and spyware.

I mean the list just goes ON AND ON! Though at the same time, if you deny him these things then you will just be making him look for them, if he comes across them out of free will/choice the only thing holding him back will be the morals and hopefully the lifestyle/beleifs you have brought him up to beleive in. He will choose there and then weather he clicks that next button or closes the window. Just like in those games, HE will chose weather or not he hires hookers and beats them up or simply not goto the hooker place? As far as im aware those scenarios you mention above from gta3 and postal2 dont HAVE to be done in order to complete the game.

Your judging him on something he hasnt done yet. Its ludicris but completly fatherly.

Im beging you, PLEASE dont be drawn into the protective wrapping of your son. Give him protection through strong enficise on morals and beleifs. He has to choose his own right path you cannot tell him what to choose.

There are things on the internet and in games that are marvellous. If you focus on the negatives then you will never overcome your faith in games and the internet and will condem your son into rebelling.

it isnt for you to decide what your son plays and what he doesnt.

The MA 15+ classification is quite explicit, by allowing your son to play anything with that rating your actually breaking the law, while thats stupid, it just highlights the rethink thats required in classification and how that classification is controlled, because at the moment its a complete joke

No term. With patental guidence in a home and not in public any MA15+ movie or game can be played or viewed by a minor. Its been this way for years, ever since we had old classifications of PA ect.

Those guidlines are for public viewings and for the purchessor.

Proc, you're pulling my leg right?

I'm far from a "hard" father. In fact, a lot of other fathers think I let him get away with too much game playing wise because I'm a gamer myself.

I'm well aware of what's on the internet, I was using before he was born (or you for that matter, at a guess).

What I was really highlighting in my previous post was how stupid violence (violence for violence sake) is classified as ok, but add a sexual element to it and it becomes bad for some reason.

I'm quite happy for my son to play violent games, as long as there's a point to them. I would in fact be quite happy for him to play a Leisure Suit Larry style game where the aim is to get laid. However, I probably wouldn't let him watch hardcore porn, but I'd let him watch an MA movie that had some mild sex scenes in it like Matrix Reloaded as an example. I let him watch things like Underworld, Starship Troopers (that had boobies and violence!) etc etc because I think he's grown up enough to deal with it.

Once he hits about 15, he can watch and play what he likes, but up until that point, I don't particularly want to deal with a 12yo with an attitude, he's got enough to worry about without being bombarded with more senseless "entertainment". He'll get his attitude soon enough.

hehe as if he's not looking up porn when you're not around anyway :)

hehe as if he's not looking up porn when you're not around anyway :)

Exactly! :P I'm not too concerned if he sees people having sex, I'm a bit concerned he might be seeing women getting treated like s*** though. Gangbangs and the like aren't the best way to portray women to impressionable young people...

procs right about that parental supervision thing for that MA 15+ rating

the same way someone under 15 can get into an MA 15+ movie as long as someone over 18 acompanies them the whole time.

also, don't bring up parenting here proc, your beliefs are yours, mantras are his.

it isnt for you to decide what your son plays and what he doesnt.

As far as I'm concerned it is. I'm well aware that I'm breaking the law by allowing him to play Q3A as an example, but I mean, really... pfft!

:P

Also, be less Welsh ;)

Yep, procs' 100% right in regarding the ratings intepreted by the law.

Sure, it may not match up with someone's moral beliefs(like Term or Mantra's) of what should be allowed for minors, but it is legally allowed.

really ?

maybe that's because it was in a public place or something, or maybe i'm just thinking of an american law.

that isnt what the lawyers told us when we looked into it with respect to qgl, the lawyers said even WITH parental supervision we're not allowed to let them in.. but maybe you guys know something minter ellison doesnt...

I suppose the suggestions about power cables and underaged people had some validity afterall.

Are you sure that legal definition comes under all cases of watching ma15+ material, or if only is illegal if someone under the age is watching ma15+ material at public venues?

I think it is the latter.

M Mature, recommended for audiences 15 years and over. Note: this is not a legally restricted Australian movie rating, but movies in this category cannot be recommended for those under 15 years.

MA Mature Accompanied. This category is legally restricted in that children under 15 cannot see "MA" films or rent them on video unless accompanied by a parent or adult guardian.

Hmm ...

i always thought the A in MA stood for mature audience.

Where is that quoted from?

You can take a <15 yo to the movies to see MA if you are over 18. I used to do it all the time with my brother when he was just a wee-tot (14).

Where is that quoted from?

Some ratings site :) It probably isn't the best source :D

Q: What is the difference between M15+ and MA15+?

A: The M15+ (Mature) classification is an advisory category. Films and computer games with this classification are recommended for mature audiences aged 15 years and over. However, children under 15 are not legally prohibited from attending or hiring films (including videos and DVDs) or computer games with this classification.

MA15+ (Mature Accompanied) classification is a legally restricted category. Material classified MA15+ deals with issues or contains depictions that require a mature perspective. Persons under 15 cannot view or hire films or computer games classified MA15+ unless in the company of a parent or adult guardian.

http://www.oflc.gov.au/content.html?n=60&p=46#q9 who are the people who make the ratings.

What is the difference between M15+ and MA15+?

It is important for parents of teenagers to know the distinction between M15+ (Mature) and MA15+ (Mature Accompanied).

Material classified M15+ is recommended for mature audiences aged 15 years and over. Since it is an advisory category, children under 15 are still able to access this material.

The MA15+ classification is a legally restricted category. This means there are laws governing who can access MA15+ material which directly involve parents.

Children under the age of 15 cannot watch or buy or hire films or computer games classified MA15+, unless they are in the company of a parent or adult guardian.

If your children are aged under 15 then they are not allowed to go to an MA15+ movie unless you go into the cinema and watch it with them. It is not OK for them to be accompanied by an older sibling or friend. The requirements are not met if an older sibling or friend accompany them or for a parent to buy a ticket but not accompany its child in the cinema for the duration of the film.

Similar laws apply to the hiring and buying of videos and DVDs. A parent or adult guardian must be present for a child under 15 to legally rent or buy an MA15+ movie.

Computer games are governed by similar laws. If your children are under 15 they cannot buy or hire an MA15+ computer game unless accompanied by a parent or adult guardian.

http://www.oflc.gov.au/content.html?n=141&p=88#dif talking about what ma and ma15+ mean.

last edited by typo at 20:09:11 06/Jul/04

IIRC the real problem isn't the parent watching their kid and making sure that the stuff on their computer is a ok to watch. It is the problem that other ma15+ material could be a part of the QGL demonstration that a parent may have no control over. The problem is simular to why BBC only shows G rated trailers.

Proc, do you think it would be good for a child to play a game like manhunt?

or how about do you think its ok for 12 year old boys to have sex with 12 year old girls?

i also think that ratings should be at parents descresion (sp?), if the parent thinks that the child is mature enough to handle violence or sex. then they should be able to view it.

My friend who is an assistant mananger at an EB store says he chooses to ask for ID when a young person is buying an age restriced title, or have parents consent when buying, which usualy means him explaining what the game is about to the parent while the kid gets all anxious and pissed off standing next to them grasping the game in his hand.

I think he enjoys doing it.

Too many little s***s come charging in with their parents demanding GTA and other ultra violent games, i personaly think it turns them into braindead brats buy the age of 16.

I was hanging about when he was closing up shop and this little kid (10 or 11) came running with his mum demanding her to buy him GTA, the shop was obviously closed, so he started screaming and getting all violent, he went into shock, collapsing on the ground infront of the window where GTA was being displayed...clawing at the glass, bawling his little eyes out. He stayed there for another 10 minutes before he got up and walked off to find his mum who pretty much walked off on him.

In conclusion; i hate those little mueling cabbages, the more age restrictions are enforced, the better.

but maybe you guys know something minter ellison doesnt...

Should i know minter ellison by name? Because although having a father in law ive never heard of them. In this case I would consider that we do know more then the group you had to consult you on the law. Its right there in plain text. Its not open to interpritation. It strictly states that minors need to be accompanied by an adult or have permission from an adult. Though QGL is a public event and therefore you need to make it 15+ like many of us stated before.

One of the keys for a law being passed is it must apply to ALL people.

Eg you cant make a law for just black people...

Another part of having a law passed is it MUST be able to be enforced.

Clearly this law is able to be enforced at the retail level. Thats the only level it has to be enforced. The purchaser has to be 18+. Children watching MA15+ movies at home is perfectly legal.

Although the ratings are national, their application in law isn't. Each state is responsible for putting the ratings into law which results in different interpretations from state to state.

At least in SA, it is an offence to display MA15+ content in a public place which includes LANs without age restrictions. It is (or at least was) also considered that MA15+ means unaccompanied minors which probably means persons under 18. Regardless of whether it's strictly legal or not, legal advice would be to err on the side of caution as there is no way a parent could properly supervise a kid at a LAN.

The spirit of it is that it would be impossible to generalise about what age kids are capable of understanding content and, as the people best placed to tell, parents ought to be able to judge for themselves what their kids can and can't see. This ought to mean the parents are making informed choices based on understanding the content themselves rather than just caving in because "hey it's just a game".

As far as I'm concerned it is. I'm well aware that I'm breaking the law by allowing him to play Q3A as an example, but I mean, really... pfft!

:P

It's hard criminals like you that deserve to be in jail :P

where is the justice @!$@#!$#

SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!%%!#!@

(preferably not the censors)

last edited by epi. at 16:14:15 07/Jul/04

Minter Ellison is only one of the biggest and most prestigious law firms in Brisbane :)

Their advice was probably perfectly accurate *FOR QGL*. You are right *FOR YOUR HOME*. They're two different venues. QGL would count as a public place because other kids without parents/guardians could view MA15 content on someone else's PC. So you're both right! ;)

Gangbangs and the like aren't the best way to portray women to impressionable young people...

Yeah, they'll grow up to become Bulldog's Football players!

What I find interesting is that game "The Singles" shows (with a reasonable degree of explicitness) genitalia. So why isn't it banned? Heck the whole premise of the game is trying to score a shag.

Their advice was probably perfectly accurate *FOR QGL*. You are right *FOR YOUR HOME*. They're two different venues. QGL would count as a public place because other kids without parents/guardians could view MA15 content on someone else's PC. So you're both right! ;)

I think that is what everybody else is saying. Term tried to slap some sort of phatom cock our of our mouths by dropping the name of Minter Ellison. However, people on the forums are proving their hetrosexuality by suggesting that Term didn't listen to his advice properly and thus proving term really needs to rub mens backs.

**edit: This means term is gay**

last edited by typo at 19:02:36 07/Jul/04

and welsh

and dirty

So....

What do you think the multiplayer side of this game is going to be like?
Will it be a spammy game, have voice communication and is it really only going to be a 4 player max multiplayer game?

insert joke about just when the next QGL will be held.

AFAIK there is a different classification system for video games and movies. The main difference being that you can't consent to your child watching adult rated content with video games

yeah, the net cafe's are at risk, i mean they don't have any parental supervision at all. but i'm sure that counterstrik is 90% of their buisness still.

lans asside I find it totally odd how gaming net cafe's (that are continuingly on the rise) manage to get away with offering counterstrike tournaments and the like to any random 14 year old script kiddy that walks in with 20 bucks...

Didn't QGL accept any 8 year old with mom and dads Mac as long as they had their 20 doller bills?

Pot -> Kettle -> Black.

they did, 15+ now though

they did, 15+ now though

duh.

Doom 3 will hopefully rock.

I mean look at that craptastic game Postal 2. It was stupidly violent what with being able to blow peoples heads off with a shotgun, pumping arterial blood in a "real" setting etc etc As well allowing you to urinate on peoples dead bodies (or live bodies for that matter). You could set fire to people and watch them running around in agony, buy "crack" to help you perform better as well as other things but AFAIK this was fine because there was no simulated sex in it. Stupid!

I heard a radio interview with someone who worked on the media classification board (or whatever it's called) in Australia. Although the main topic was movies rather than computer games, this issue did come up and was explained.

They don't have a problems with sex or violence, they only have a problem with sex and violence. For example, hardcore BDSM movies are permitted in Australia, as long as there is no sexual intercourse despicted. Likewise, sexual intercourse is permitted in porno movies as long as it doesn't involve violence (such as violent gang rape).

The idea is to keep the association of these two themes in entertainment somewhat apart from each other in our society. On their own, with classification, either are fine.

age restrictions make it more attractive to kids, how many people do u know that had their first drink, smoke or porno after the age of 18 ? like wise I would be hanging out for doom3 (more then am already) if it was rated R18+ just because of the stigma attached to this prestigious rating.

But with out age restrictions items just get banned from sale all together.

The sooner we have R18 games the better because then we will have 18+ lans! YAY! NO MORE KIDDIES!

The sooner we have R18 games the better because then we will have 18+ lans! YAY! NO MORE KIDDIES!

Hah ... Although it depends on the kinds of games that make r18 status :)

lans asside I find it totally odd how gaming net cafe's (that are continuingly on the rise) manage to get away with offering counterstrike tournaments and the like to any random 14 year old script kiddy that walks in with 20 bucks...

Seriously, who the f*** cares. I realise you and trog are well within your rights to make sure your butts are covered but the police and enforcments agencies have better things and MORE important things to do then worry if little 14 year old johnny is at a net cafe playing counter strike or somes*** that has a 2d blood sprite drawn when they get shot.

As long as you put "No 14 year old allowed" or make some kinda effort im sure no one would give a s*** let alone go after the hosts of a venue. Its ludicris. They should go after the parents, guardians, purchasors of the games or the kids that think there doing nothing wrong.

Seriously, who the f*** cares. I realise you and trog are well within your rights to make sure your butts are covered but the police and enforcments agencies have better things and MORE important things to do then worry if little 14 year old johnny is at a net cafe playing counter strike or somes*** that has a 2d blood sprite drawn when they get shot.

The Gaming Police are not going to raid Café’s and do an age check of people playing MA 15+ games. The legal issues are if someones Mum or dad comes down and sees their kid playing the game, then the Café is liable for letting under 15 year olds play MA 15+ games without adult superversion.

As long as you put "No 14 year old allowed" or make some kinda effort im sure no one would give a s*** let alone go after the hosts of a venue.

If you just put a sign up and then blatantly flaunt the law you can actually get in more trouble, because you can’t even argue that you didn’t know the law (even though ignorance is no defence).

Its ludicris. They should go after the parents, guardians, purchasors of the games or the kids that think there doing nothing wrong.

It isn’t ludicrous, these places should know it is illegal or at worst blatantly breaking the law …

I hate how it is always someone elses responsibility other than the parents involved.

Although it is also the responsibility of the cafe not to activly break the law by activly trying to get kids to come in as some sort of meeting place after school.

I'm thinking u wont need a super rig to play this game, I gave the alpha leak test when I was running a radion9000 with an amd2000+ and it was not TO bad ( e.g. 10fps or so ) and I’m assuming the finished product will run way more efficiently, I now have a radion9600xt so I’m hoping ill be right.

A suggestion for the NetCafes: curtain off a third to a half of the PCs and only allow 15+ age people in that area. The PCs in that area would be the only ones with Doom 3 installed (or activated).

If you go to IntenCity they always have some House Of Horror game or whatever with a curtain around it and it seems to make it legit enough.

And a curtain on wheels across part of the area would be easy enough to move as demand for Doom 3 changes the number of PCs being used for the game.

So no problemo, IMO.

Local public LAN games like WonderLAN and Valhalla are another challenge altogether. You can't just curtain off an area and separate 14 and 15 year old mates, nor police people crossing the curtained area for the 14+ hours or investigate the private property of people's hard drives. Not to mention that most 15 year olds don't have proof-of-age photo IDs. A bit of thinking is required for this issue methinks.

Does anyone know of any "mature age" public LANs around the place? ie. compulsory age 20+/25+? Or even pseudo-public ones, where we can bring a six-pack and play a few games then chill around a BBQ or watch a DVD? All the people I used to do that with have moved interstate. WonderLAN after-LANs are all I have left!

It works for porn/R rated videos in the Northern Territory so i don't see why a curtain wouldn't work at a net cafe's.

NO KIDDIES PAST THE CURTAIN GET THE F**K OUT!!

By putting a curtain up you cannot inadvertantly stumble upon what has been deemed unsuitable by the classification board. If a small kid goes and sticks their head inside then that means that actively sort it out and the kybosh is on them not the establishment.

As if this weirdo above me isn't parag0n.

Well the kid sticks his head in the window you scold them. Listen, i realise people will sook about it, and cry about having to seperate their rooms, and having to put a mirrors in the corner so they can see what's going on past the curtain while at the front desk, BUT it works.

Video stores sooked about it when it first came in in the NT, and if you mention to video store owners in other states that they should put videos with graphic covers (violent or sexual) in a seperate area rather than just on the top shelf they have a sook about it too. But it works. Cause most children know that only adults are allowed in there and when they are seen in there they are kicked off the premises.

The problem is it is a simple and straight forward solution that solves the problem of exposing minors to innappropriate material so will never be implemented. It is far too uncomplicated and practical to ever be addopted nation-wide.

It was just you moron.

I was just answering your question. You didnt wreck my argument. You just gave your opinion as did I. You have no facts to back up your argument (nor did I of course) just your opinion on a childs nature. no more.

Do I really need facts to justify commonly known facts about the nature of a child and his general nature? No more.

Curtain'd areas are supervised more heavily then the more general areas of all establishments since the financial penalties for allowing underage children into those areas are significant...

There you go point refuted, You can go away now...

You're using the same logic to wreck your argument as you are to justify yourself.

Thats just it. I wasnt justifying anything. I was giving my opinion on a public forum. You asked a stupid question which deserved a stupid response. Rhetorical questions like that deserve no less.

Calling my comments uneducated serves the same purpose as me calling you a moron so you in your own 'omg contradiction post' did exactly what you said I shouldnt do.

That and verbose language is a clear indication that you dont know s*** and think that using large words to describe what can be simply put actually works.

Like [Q] said, no more!

I never said that. you did.

(that curtained areas are not effective in public establishments, REGARDLESS of any legislation proving otherwise

The point I rasied, regardless of whatever I quoted, remains that the areas curtained off or sectioned off from underage people is more heavily supervised by the establishment ensuring that children won't make their way into areas that they are not supposed to have access to... Infer whatever you want from your knowlege of child behaviour...

hi illegalhandle#3

last edited by Boxhead at 21:47:20 28/Jul/04

no more is in refernce to your argument having no more basis for fact. You have misinterpreted what I said.

Your suicide would also make a nice corrective statement.

last edited by fpot at 22:43:01 28/Jul/04

haha zing.

No boxhead, curtained off areas are not heavily supervised and do not effectively keep out children.

What about an electric curtain? Like how they feed rats electric food to stop them being hungry.
And it could have swipe card access for the old people, like your seniors discount card would let you in or something.

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New Samsung i450------------$310usd
New Samsung P520 Armani------------$330usd
New Samsung F700---------------$280usd
New Samsung U700---------------$240usd
New Samsung U600---------------$220usd
New Samsung U300---------------$190usd
New Samsung D900 Ultra Edition---------------$230usd
New Samsung X820 Ultra Edition---------------$150usd
New Samsung X830 / Blush---------------$160usd
New Samsung ZV40---------------$150usd
New Samsung E900---------------$150usd
New Samsung F300 Ultra Music---------------$160usd
New Samsung F500 Ultra Video---------------$190usd
New Samsung D830 Ultra Edition---------------$210usd
New Samsung D840---------------$230usd
New Samsung P940---------------$240usd

New HTC phone
New HTC Advantage X7500-------$350usd
New HTC Touch Dual---------$300usd
New HTC TyTN II---------$300usd
New HTC Touch Cruise------$330usd
New HTC Touch-------$250usd
New HTC TyTN--------$280usd

New E-ten phone
New Eten glofiish M800----------$350
New Eten glofiish X800----------$330
New Eten glofiish M700----------$300
New Eten glofiish X500+----------$280
New Eten glofiish X500----------$250

New LG Phones
New LG KE800 Chocolate Platinum---------------$300usd
New LG KE850 Prada---------------$320usd
New LG KE970 Shine---------------$200usd
New LG KG810---------------$150usd
New LG KG920---------------$160usd
New LG KU800---------------$165usd
New LG U400---------------$200usd

New Sidekick Pager
New LX Brown sidekick---------$300usd
New Sidekick slide--------$280usd
New D-Wade Limited Edition Sidekick 3---------$200usd
New LRG sidekick 3 special Edition---------------$160usd
New Sidekick 3-----------$130usd
New Sidekick 2----------$100usd

New NAVIGATOR
Garmin 7500 automotive unit displays navigation ----- $550usd
GARMIN StreetPilot 7200 GPS Navigator -----$420usd
Garmin StreetPilot C530 GPS Navigator----$200usd
TomTom International BV TOMTOM GO 700 Navigator ---$220usd
Tomtom Guo 700 GPS Portable Car Navigator-----$300usd
TomTom GO 910 Car Navigator---$450usd
Pioneer AVIC-Z1----$720usd
Pioneer AVH-P6800DVD----$560usd
Pioneer AVIC-D2-----$450usd

Laptops/Notebooks are also available.


Thanks
MANAGEMENT.
Email: salesperson_veronica@hotmail.com
Email: veronica@salesperson.net