young british soldier rammed with a car and then beheaded in the street in the middle of the day infront of the public :(

assailants don't run away, they hang around talking to the crowds, mugging for photos, until armed police/military show up and shoot them.

what the f*** is our world coming to?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-23/man-hacked-to-death-in-suspected-london-terrorist-attack/4707506

The Muslim Council in Britain said it would no doubt raise tensions on the streets in the UK. "This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world-news/two-shot-by-police-after-soldiers-hacking-death-near-royal-artillery-barracks-in-woolwich/story-fndir2ev-1226648801254#ixzz2U3mWFUjs

oh my sides hurt from the laughter. no basis in islam, its practically the trademark for islam.

more recent islamic, unislamicness NSFW http://racanarchy.com/2013/05/15/10-things-worse-than-eating-a-dead-mans-heart/ NSFW

oh my sides hurt from the laughter. no basis in islam, its practically the trademark for islam islamic extremism.

Fixed.

The live link copy of that onlookers twitter posts is an amazing read.

Also watching the videos. Its just crazy how safe people felt around the murderers. A woman laying down posing(?) With the body? Wtf??

oh my sides hurt from the laughter. no basis in islam, its practically the trademark for islam islamic muslamic extremism.

Double fixed.

hmm religion or islamofascist ideology?

oh god you can read british accents

“The first guy goes for the female fed [police officer] with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it,” he wrote.

“Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 [gun] and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!”
He went on: “Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldn't believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.”

wtf is that person posing for a selfie with the body?

This is horrible, ridiculous and crazy. I think these blokes are blurring the line between fanatasism and mental illness. It basically reinforces my ideal that all religions should be banned. I call it the 1% rule. If there is a 1% chance a person will kill someone because of or incidental to that religion, you ban it. Religion is unscientific, illogical thinking and does not provide any benefit for humanity, it only retards it.

A lot of things in religions are good and a lot of them are designed as rules for everyday living but with the new age of science a lot of these rules are taken literally and out of context.

At the same time, we probably shouldn't partake in invading their countries.

I wish this whole holy war rubbish would stop. It's just simmering away until WW3.

I always hear people saying "it's only the extremist Muslims doing this"..

Where are the so called moderate Muslims and why aren't they decrying these atrocities, protesting, handing over suspected terrorists or hate mongering clerics etc?

This is coming to Australia

Enoch Powell was right and they laughed at him, who is right now?

WHAT DO AFGHAN MEN SAY AT A STRIP JOINT??? SHOW US YA FACE!

f***in f***s really giving me the s***s.

Where are the so called moderate Muslims and why aren't they decrying these atrocities, protesting, handing over suspected terrorists or hate mongering clerics etc?

lol in this very thread you porkchop

The Muslim Council in Britain said it would no doubt raise tensions on the streets in the UK. "This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world-news/two-shot-by-police-after-soldiers-hacking-death-near-royal-artillery-barracks-in-woolwich/story-fndir2ev-1226648801254#ixzz2U3mWFUjs

you're a deads***, aga

It basically reinforces my ideal that all religions should be banned. I call it the 1% rule. If there is a 1% chance a person will kill someone because of or incidental to that religion, you ban it. Religion is unscientific, illogical thinking and does not provide any benefit for humanity, it only retards it. A lot of things in religions are good and a lot of them are designed as rules for everyday living but with the new age of science a lot of these rules are taken literally and out of context. At the same time, we probably shouldn't partake in invading their countries.

Sounds reasonable *rollseyes*

I'm interested how how you calculate this 1% chance. Is is based on past events or is there some sort of "murder quotient" that we can use to calculate future potential to murder given belief in a given religion?

Can you extrapolate this theory for us?

Also, how would you propose banning all religion? Make it illegal? I mean it should be fairly simple because hey it's working out pretty well having people arguing over which religion is right now, so if we banned all religions there's absolutely zero loose ends, right?

Thank God that's sorted. Hey next, since you're solving the big issues, would you mind have a tinker with this fossil fuel/carbon emission thing we have going on?

taylor - outthinking the rest of us, one issue at a time

why is it considered a terrorist attack?

Well it would start with first beginning discourse on how religious thinking retards scientific and social advancement. Religion is currently, desperately attempting to carve a niche for itself in the modern world. Islam is currently coming last in this race.

The first step would be to create a list of pros and cons and educate the wider community as to how evil and useless religion really is.

The scientific community also needs to reform itself and start practising real science instead of quasi-science.

Richard Dawkins has some good ideas on this if you want to watch his vids.

why is it considered a terrorist attack?

I think it's intent + circumstance.

If they had killed this man in a back alley, it would just be murder, but they killed him in broad day light on a street in an extremely brutal way - the intent is to terrorize, therefore it's a terrorist attack.

:( What's the world coming to...

Lets just ignore it then shall we incredible-vegetable?
I don't think you can deny that the teachings of Islam open the door to this stuff. They probably don't tell them to go and commit violence, but they do teach them that they answer only to god, who apparently doesn't like non-Muslims. Their mindset is that the only people worth caring about are other Muslim men, that sacrifice of one's life for god is a very noble endeavour, that the lives of most mortals are irrelevant compared to the divinity of the afterlife.
Look I admit I don't know the specifics, or know just the right words to use to describe the mindset of the devout muslim, but it is pretty clear that something like that is going on and we should pay attention to it.
When religion takes away your understanding of the fragility and finite nature of life, and that the only other ones 'out there' are other living human beings rather than a supernatural force whose interests are more important than life, there is a problem there, you are going to behave in ways that seem unthinkable to all but people with serious psychological disorders.

f***ing savages.

the anti religious argument has some serious merit when presented with evidence like those videos cainer linked to.

man have a read of what the brave women did

http://www.smh.com.au/world/you-are-going-to-lose-mother-tells-attackers-to-drop-weapons-after-london-killing-20130523-2k210.html

"Being a cub leader I have my first aid," she said. "So when I saw this guy on the floor I thought it was an accident. Then I saw the guy was dead and I could not feel any pulse.

'You are going to lose': London's Telegraph says cub scout leader Ingrid Loyau-Kennett confronted the bloodied attackers.
"And then when I went up there was this black guy with a revolver and a kitchen knife.
"He had what looked like butcher's tools and he had a little axe, to cut the bones, and two large knives and he said: 'Move off the body.' So I thought: 'OK, I don't know what is going on here.' He was covered with blood. I thought I had better start talking to him before he starts attacking somebody else. I thought these people usually have a message so I said: 'What do you want?'
"I asked him if he did it and he said 'yes', and I said 'why?' And he said because he [the victim] has killed Muslim people in Muslim countries.

"Shocking: death: forensic officers attend the scene. Photo: AP
"He said he was a British soldier and I said: 'Really?' And he said: 'I killed him because he killed Muslims and I am fed up with people killing Muslims in Afghanistan. They have nothing to do there.' "
When Mrs Loyau-Kennett arrived on the scene the pair of killers were roaming John Wilson Street waiting for police to arrive so they could stage a final confrontation with them.
She said: "I started to talk to him and I started to notice more weapons and the guy behind him with more weapons as well. By then, people had started to gather around.

Two men were shot at the scene by police. Photo: Getty Images
"So I thought, OK, I should keep him talking to me before he noticed everything around him.
"He was not high, he was not on drugs, he was not an alcoholic or drunk. He was just distressed, upset. He was in full control of his decisions and ready to do everything he wanted to do.
"I said: 'Right, now it is only you versus many people, you are going to lose, what would you like to do?' He said: 'I would like to stay and fight.' "
The terrorist in the black hat then went to speak to someone else and Mrs Loyau-Kennett tried to engage with the other man in the light coat. She said: "The other one was much shyer and I went to him and I said: 'Well, what about you? Would you like to give me what you have in your hands?'
"I did not want to say weapons but I thought it was better having them aimed on one person like me rather than everybody there. Children were starting to leave school as well."
Mrs Loyau-Kennett was not the only woman to show extraordinary courage in the Woolwich street.
Others shielded the soldier's body as the killers stood over them.
Joe Tallant, 20, a van loader who lives near the scene, said a friend and her mother went over to help the soldier as he lay dying in the street.
"Her mother was so brave, she didn't care what happened to her," he said. "She knelt by his side and comforted him. She held his hand and put her other hand on his chest. I think she might have been praying."

Lets just ignore it then shall we incredible-vegetable?I don't think you can deny that the teachings of Islam open the door to this stuff. They probably don't tell them to go and commit violence, but they do teach them that they answer only to god, who apparently doesn't like non-Muslims. Their mindset is that the only people worth caring about are other Muslim men, that sacrifice of one's life for god is a very noble endeavour, that the lives of most mortals are irrelevant compared to the divinity of the afterlife. Look I admit I don't know the specifics, or know just the right words to use to describe the mindset of the devout muslim, but it is pretty clear that something like that is going on and we should pay attention to it.When religion takes away your understanding of the fragility and finite nature of life, and that the only other ones 'out there' are other living human beings rather than a supernatural force whose interests are more important than life, there is a problem there, you are going to behave in ways that seem unthinkable to all but people with serious psychological disorders.

So religion is a negative thing - how do we deal with this? My solution is extreme, I know, but how do you deal with something that in the long run, corrupts minds?

Your solution is quite moderate Taylor. Hard work, but doesn't involve viruses or nanobots like my ideas.

Islam: the religion of peace.

So religion is a negative thing - how do we deal with this? My solution is extreme, I know, but how do you deal with something that in the long run, corrupts minds?

Most people don't like being told what to think, that's dictatorship, even if it is scientific. Teach people how to think clearly and allow them to arrive at their own conclusions. It may not stop religion as you hope, but at least we'll have generations of thinkers, and that should lead to better decisions being made.

No quick fix; slow and steady wins this race.

You stay classy, humanity.

http://i.imgur.com/LZCT2.jpg

Hi Hogfather, no mate I saw that reference as I have seen previous statements by the same group after these incidents. But maybe I was unclear in my point...

Not withstanding the fact that on this particular forum we only have one Muslim (as far as I know), the vast majority of people posting against this act in public forums or on the newspaper comments section do not appear (referencing usernames/language/location etc) to be Muslim. Not conclusive evidence I realise but not an unreasonable assumption. Further, we just aren't seeing or hearing about any displays of anti extremist sentiment from that community...it may be that there is and we just don't hear about it as it isn't news worthy.

Conversely, the Muslim media seem to be glorifying the actions of these people. Now again, I don't speak Arabic so I am reliant on English translations with their inherent inaccuracies and the risk that only the extremist views are being broadcast to us...but that is still relevant.

Where are the Muslim anti extremists, where are their posts, their news paper articles, their clerics all taking a stand against this...I aren't necessarily saying they aren't there, but why can't we see them

Meanwhile I hate trying to form a coherent response to this whilst at work and on my phone, so I may revisit this when I get home to attempt to clarify/provide links or whatever.

Oh and reload, I would respond to you but you didn't actually say anything so come back when you have some thing intelligible.

E&oe

Islam is Totalitarianism.
It will not tolerate non-believers.
The goal is to collapse Society and then for Islam to take over.
They didn't need to kill 100 people.
its the act itself that sparks the descent into lawlessness.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329290/Woolwich-attack-More-100-English-Defence-League-supporters-gather-near-scene-killing.html

Check the comments, best rated,
Its building up.

because to suggest that the majority of muslims would condone hacking someone to death on the side of the road is so ridiculous it's not really worthy of further comment. I would also love to see the mainstream media you're looking at that is 'glorifying' this sort of action.
every day, normal, peace loving muslims arent shouting loud enough that this is a horrible and barbaric thing so therefore they support it? Hey I haven't seen you marching in any anti-paedophilia rallies so I guess you love fiddling kids?
you're a bigot, straight up.

Imagine if there was no religion, we would have nothing but video games to talk about.

Imagine if there was no religion, we would have nothing but video games to talk about.

No hell below us, above us only sky...

No hell below us, above us only sky...

http://i.imgur.com/yze2EdI.jpg

Where are the Muslim anti extremists, where are their posts, their news paper articles, their clerics all taking a stand against this...I aren't necessarily saying they aren't there, but why can't we see them

Where are all the christian groups speaking out against christians lynching people when crazy christians go mental? They don't need to, because the crazy people are clearly crazy. There are 1.6 billion Muslims - if they were all crazy we'd be proper f***ed.

(PS: this is coming from an Athiest that reads)

Islam is Totalitarianism.

No its not. The calphates stopped at the end of the Ottoman empire?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

It will not tolerate non-believers.

No its not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina#Rights_of_non-Muslims

"The Constitution of Medina (Arabic: دستور المدينة‎, Ṣaḥīfat al-Madīnah), also known as the Charter of Medina, was drafted by the prophet Muhammad. It constituted a formal agreement between Prophet Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Yathrib (later known as Medina), including Muslims, Jews, Christians[1] and pagans. ...
Non-Muslim members have equal political and cultural rights as Muslims. They will have autonomy and freedom of religion."

The goal is to collapse Society and then for Islam to take over.

No its not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

"Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist)."

i hate to say it but i think the word "illogical" has been completely ruined by this twit

Damn, don't you hate it when your observations are contradicted by self-interested wikipedia contributors?

Well s***, simul, I guess everything is just dandy.

Where are Christians eating the hearts of enemies ?
Where are Christians beheading non-believers ?

"The Constitution of Medina (Arabic: دستور المدينة‎, Ṣaḥīfat al-Madīnah), also known as the Charter of Medina, was drafted by the prophet Muhammad. It constituted a formal agreement between Prophet Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Yathrib (later known as Medina), including Muslims, Jews, Christians[1] and pagans. ...
Non-Muslim members have equal political and cultural rights as Muslims. They will have autonomy and freedom of religion."

simul can you name some Islamic Countries where this takes place ?

Well it would start with first beginning discourse on how religious thinking retards scientific and social advancement.

So, like the discourse that has been going on since Darwin burst onto the scene back in 1859. You may have missed the boat.

Religion is currently, desperately attempting to carve a niche for itself in the modern world.

Is it? Or is it fairly well established in every culture?

Islam is currently coming last in this race.

To the tune of approx a quarter of the world's population.

The first step would be to create a list of pros and cons and educate the wider community as to how evil and useless religion really is.

So you'll be posting this list on Facebook or...?

Lets just ignore it then shall we incredible-vegetable?

Where did I say ignore it? I was stating that the idea of "banning" religion is completely futile. You can't dictate to people what they should believe, Hitler.

I am not religious. I acknowledge that religion is the catalyst for much of the world's suffering. For thousands of years people have killed each other over one imaginary friend or another. Obviously not ideal. But I am sure some other people have been comforted by or inspired by religion in a positive way. Good on them. While I don't agree with their beliefs, I sure as s*** don't agree with banning them.
The simple fact is that it's people, not religion, who commit these acts. It's people's interpretation of the religion and its doctrines. People are entitled to their own ideas.
If those ideas/beliefs cause them to come into conflict with the laws imposed by society, then they should be tried and convicted via the legal system. If not, let them be.

Where are Christians eating the hearts of enemies ?
Where are Christians beheading non-believers ?

Liberia

+1 IncrediVeg

The UK authorities openly allow and tolerate religious extremists all in the name of multiculturalism and political correctness.

All we have to do is look back a few months ago at that islamic hate preacher who was blocked from being deported from the UK even though he constantly preaches hate.

hmm religion or islamofascist ideology?

This is a classic example of the problem in the UK. Especially the part where she was walking in the protest.

The mentality of muslims in the uk is now "These are our streets, we are untouchable and we will soon take over"

why is it considered a terrorist attack?

Because it's a politically motivated attack with a political objective.

Personally, I feel that people who perform actions like this should be taken alive, suspended over and then slowly lowered down into a pen of hungry pigs.

*talking in a British accent*

IN OUR LANDS WOMEN SEE THIS ALL THE TIME... WE WILL NEVER STOP FIGHTING YOU... etc

Yes... your lands... of... England?

I could understand this s*** if they were immigrants maybe, but born and bred? I guess it goes to show that stupidity has no race or creed.

Nah HERMITech you don't get how these people operate. You make THEM eat the pigs. You force them into a romantic homosexual kiss, a little moustachey bj, or a horsey ride on Rolf Harris' lap. If you just rape and murder, you give them what they want.

Where are the parents in all this?

Well s***, simul, I guess everything is just dandy.

Not at all, but that doesn't mean people should arbitrarily blame religion. Its the people involved, the culture, the community and so on. The problem with religion is the motivations that bring on this kind of s*** - take out the people pulling the strings rather than the name.

simul can you name some Islamic Countries where this takes place ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_by_country

Many countries (Afganistan, Egypt, Indonesia etc). But it depends what your after. All Muslim states - even those under Sharia should recognise Christians/Jews etc as "people of the book".
Something to read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim-rashid/shariah-law-the-five-things-every-non-muslim_b_1068569.html

"The Qur'an clearly says, "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:257). Furthermore, Shariah obliges Muslims to be loyal to their nation of residence. Therefore, American Muslims must adhere to the US Constitution as the supreme law of the land."

Where are Christians eating the hearts of enemies ?
Where are Christians beheading non-believers ?

Liberia
Nigeria:
http://newsrescue.com/birom-christians-eat-roasted-flesh-of-muslims-they-killed-in-jos-nigeria/#axzz2U5wr7wna

"This deadly ignorance was again demonstrated on the 28th of August 2011, as Birom (Berom) Christians were recorded in these videos, eating Muslims they had killed and roasted."

Holy f*** they beheaded him? I just heard on the radio he got stabbed or somethin. jesus..

Please note that I am an atheist and I don't think religion is useful moving forward (as opposed to faith - each to their own), however I do find the arbitrary "muslims are evil" ramblings as stupid and misinformed as religion itself.

You can quote all the wiki/koran you like, fact is they cheery pick what suits them, just like any other religion. The individuals are of course responsible but the part religion plays in their motivations can't be ignored.

In terms of the legitimacy of the attack isn't this kinda fair the the whole scheme of things. The UK is at war with islam in Afghanistan.

Targeting a soldier of the enemy really seems like fair game.. expecially when you consider Apache and UAV attacks on liveleak etc.

They deliberately left civvies alone..

Seems like these particular terrorists had some degree of honour.

Despite the cause of this being religion if you invade other countries you reap what you sow.

why not? they're that bats*** and in such a minority that it's like suggesting that the influence of video games can't be ignored in extremely isolated incidents like school shootings. the fact is that 99.99999999999999999% of muslims don't go around beheading people.

f***ing lol at the idiots claiming Christians don't do stupid s*** like Muslims do. How's life in your happy little cloud of ignorance?

i hate to say it but i think the word "illogical" has been completely ruined by this twit

Seconded, I vote AG implements an auto-replace of any of Taylor's posts that changes any reference to "logical" or "illogical" to the phrase "I have no idea what I'm doing".

Posting in a epic thread. This is really sad and lets just face it, these guys are f***ing crazy..

This will be our generations big problem to deal with. Question is, when will it be time to start getting tougher on islam. I respect peoples right to practice religion but I don't think we can just stand by and let islam terrorise our peaceful society. I am off to London next week and a little worried now, to be honest.

(Afganistan, Egypt, Indonesia etc).

There is no equality of Religion in those countries.
There may be Christians there but they best not draw attention to themselves.
how many Political or Military leaders in Islamic Countries are Christian ?

These guys are dogs but anytime someone says "what is this world coming to" I always feel the need to remind them that f***ed up s*** has been happening for thousands of years. Only now with the speed of news, the Internet and technology, news that in older days would have taken days to reach us now takes minutes with uncensored accounts by eyewitnesses or amateur footage.

Something like this wouldn't have even made it to the newspaper here in Australia 100 years ago and 20 years ago it would have been a 30 second clip talking to some constable or eyewitness.

Now you read s*** like this and you're not restricted to the information put in front of you, and you can find another story on it a click away with footage and graphic images.

hmm religion or islamofascist ideology?

Reminds me a lot of Westboro to be honest.

Lots of dopey people doing (excusing) all manner of stupid things in the name of religion. The reason that this is a story is that it happened in the UK, not that its an amazing example of fundamental extremism.

(Afganistan, Egypt, Indonesia etc).

There is no equality of Religion in those countries.
There may be Christians there but they best not draw attention to themselves.
how many Political or Military leaders in Islamic Countries are Christian ?

How many political or military leaders in the United States are openly Muslim? Maybe a few, but they best not draw attention to themselves, right?

the fact is that 99.99999999999999999% of muslims don't go around beheading people.

I agree with the sentiment definitely. Though even assuming this guy that's ever decapitated anyone there aren't enough muslims in the world - I think you can only go to about 8 sig figs there. :)

Crazyness. All this does is breed more hate in every direction.

even if taylor isn't door, and honestly nobody other than fpot could give a flying f*** whether he is or isn't, he's just as worthless.

Just as worthless and possibly dumber. I never thought I'd say that.

edit: is there some automated thing that nukes posts for being off-topic now? Because I think it's broken.

Yeh, why was that arc off topic?

It threatened to evolve into an interesting discussion about asymmetric warfare which is really bang on topic for Islamic terrorism.

what happened to all my liveleak links in the OP?

(some were actual links rather than embeds and should have been fine)

Why were mine off topic? Unlike civilian based terror, this was an attack against a military asset.

Well I am going to assume that the nuking was a mistake so let's carry on the insanity shall we?

So you think that a couple of guys ramming and hacking an unarmed man to death is a legit act of war because he was an off-duty soldier and they were Islamic. For starters, they were not legitimate combatants to start with, they were just a couple of murderous animals. They weren't partaking in a war, they were only partaking in murder.

Also, going by your... ahem 'logic', it would be okay for British soldiers to kill anybody who has posted extremist material on their facebook page. It's the exact same situation but reversed. I think whoever nuked you was trying to do you a favour.

CBF reading all these posts but in case it wasnt mentioned, i was reading the news dot com dot au story this morning and they said this:

"Both men, shouting "Allah Akbar" or "God is great" in Arabic, were shot by police snipers including a female officer"
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/two-shot-by-police-after-soldiers-hacking-death-near-royal-artillery-barracks-in-woolwich/story-fndir2ev-1226648801254

Seriously, who the f*** cares if the officer was female or not.

Because she is one of the very few female members of the Scotland Yards elite CO19 unit, and I guess the journalist thought that diversity is a good thing to promote.

CBF reading all these posts but in case it wasnt mentioned, i was reading the news dot com dot au story this morning and they said this:"Both men, shouting "Allah Akbar" or "God is great" in Arabic, were shot by police snipers including a female officer"http://www.news.com.au/world-news/two-shot-by-police-after-soldiers-hacking-death-near-royal-artillery-barracks-in-woolwich/story-fndir2ev-1226648801254Seriously, who the f*** cares if the officer was female or not.

At the very least it will piss off the snackbars, they hate women who don't bend the knee to them.

I'm saying its a hell of a lot better than doing it to an innocent civilian. If he was deployed in 'Ghan then he probably had Muslim blood on his hands.

Oh is that what you were saying? I could have sworn you said it was a legit act of war against a military asset.

Oh wait, you did! http://i.imgur.com/EQ6z31t.gif

'Ghan

I hate you

He wasn't beheaded, just hacked.

It's terrorist related as they started spouting Al-Qaeda esque sentiments.

Woolwich killing: The long-feared attack
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22624100

He wasn't beheaded, just hacked.It's terrorist related as they started spouting Al-Qaeda esque sentiments. Woolwich killing: The long-feared attackhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22624100

Yea, just hacked.

I didn't mean it as though it was less horrific, just to clarify that it wasn't a beheading!

this blew my mind last night when i saw it..

after a bit of thinking i came up with this..

I don't consider myself to be a racist..i am intolerant to intolerance though..

my first thought was..

multiculturalism has a price to pay, and that price is that for every 1000 people we get in to a country that has an immigration policy there will always be a distribution of views amongst immigrants.. so for 1000 people from an Islamic country there are probably 998 awesome people, 1 far right winger and 1 far left winger.

I want to call this the distribution cost of multiculturalism

now my numbers are just made up but imagine if Islamic countries allowed immigration that took in Christian majorities .. they would get some far left and some far right and maybe even a westborough member or 2

my point is.. this has to be a fixed ratio of the community.. and this ratio is the price we pay in this day and age for multiculturalism..

in my dads day all the immigrants I knew were friendly Greeks and Italians who found paradise in a new land and made the most of it, they brought some crime but it was mostly get ahead crime.. like mafia type stuff, infighting, etc.. not religious hate or intolerance where you have to push your views onto the country you are immigrating to.

As a country that accepts immigrants we have to ask if this is a price that is too high to pay? It means you might live in peace for years at a time but every now and then some idiot might come along and chop off your head in the name of his belief..

My other thought was to the ineffectiveness of the opposition to fighting immigration policy, especially in the UK where some UK defense group has formed which is immediately shouted down by media as far right wing etc.. which in effect makes it a group without teeth, even though they are touted as a working class uprising..

so you cant fight radicalisation with radicalisation.. and the current governments have become paralysed by political correctness.

and i think... there is nothing we can do.. so i guess just buy a lotto ticket and hope your number doesn't come up... as a dive master i swim with sharks so i guess i have other things to worry about..

also as a side note and i know this is a bit macabre but it seems as if they drove into him first then tried to cut off his head.. but from the amount of blood on the hands of the murderers and the lack of blood on the ground it seems the impact with the car killed him or knocked him unconscious, so I'm hoping he didnt have to endure the actual attempted beheading while conscious

rip

and

f*** those guys

http://i.imgur.com/jb7JF9c.jpg

Please do not bring Islam into this. these murderous dogs are straight out criminals. Islam is a religion of peace.

because to suggest that the majority of muslims would condone hacking someone to death on the side of the road is so ridiculous it's not really worthy of further comment.

Please re-read my original and follow up posts - at no point did i make this suggestion, I have merely asked "where are the moderate muslims who are decrying these acts".

For me personally, all I see in the media is "extremist muslims" so I genuinely would like to see some proof of opposite viewpoints within that community.

As to the rest of your statement, the arguing is flawed and the personal attack is indicative of an inability to generate any kind of coherent response.


Hello Simul, long time no see mate -

Where are all the christian groups speaking out against christians lynching people when crazy christians go mental? They don't need to, because the crazy people are clearly crazy. There are 1.6 billion Muslims - if they were all crazy we'd be proper f***ed.

I agree and disagree with your statement :)

I dont know the specific incident you mention but I would nearly guarantee if I started looking I would find some rhetoric from someone decrying the act. Note that I didnt specify that the person had to be a Christian, merely that someone would be decrying it.

Because IMO opposition to extremism doesnt need to come from just that community, it needs to come from all of the community.

Despite that I am sure that there would be Christian groups also decrying it - case in point those idiots at Westboro Baptist Church... I mean seriously...

And yes, thank (insert deity here) that 1.6 billion ANYONE isnt bats*** crazy :)

I have made this statement before and it specifically applies to Reload in this instance, as soon as you pull out the "racist" name card or the "climate change denier" name card or any other emotionally charged rhetoric, you stifle discussion (and show your ignorance). DIscussion is good as it allows open exchanges of ideas and the chance to modify your opinions by virtue of salient information. IMO and for your future reference, argue with valid points not name calling.


The underlying issue for me here is that the way this (the extremism) is being portrayed is that all Muslims are crazy whereas logic would say that in fact they arent. But we are continually bombarded with this sensational news stories of the actions of the extremist ones. Politically we are swinging to the right all over the world as the general populace reacts to this continual message.

To add to this is the continuing world economic crisis, the growth of extreme nationalism etc and the signs start to point to previous times in history where strong (but crazy) leaders have emerged


Hello Superform, I liked your post :)

Can multiculturalism work? I think of all my friends in my basketball team(s) or at work who are Islanders or Asians, all the cool restaurants etc and think... of course, its been great for my overall enjoyment. And then i think of the things like we have seen on TV to do with those same groups (or others) and wonder... was it worth it?

No answer from me but I would certainly like to see less of those incidents occurring...

Hope that was a coherent response, I am distracted by the fact that I fly to Vanuatu in a few hours :)

I believe it's got very little to do with religion or multiculturalism. The fact that they're black, islamic, british, or whatever, is slightly irrelevant alongside the fact that they're COMPLETELY CRAZY... I would guess they did this because there's something wrong with their heads, not because multiculturalism has failed or Islam is evil.

Indonesia a tolerant Country ?

JAKARTA — Leading religious figures in Indonesia have come out against a U.S.-based interfaith group's plan to award President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono's support for religious freedom. They said it sends the wrong message about a country where religious minorities face increasing violence and persecution.

Indonesia is the world’s most populous Sunni Muslim-majority country, but it has sizable populations of Christians, Hindus and other Muslim faiths. Since Mr. Yudhoyono became president, the government has issued several regulations that have been used against religions minorities, including a ministerial decree that has prevented Christian groups from opening churches and another that bans the Ahmadiyah from worshipping in public.

In recent months human rights groups have also grown increasingly concerned about a notable rise in cases of religiously motivated violence.

http://www.voanews.com/content/religious-award-sparks-protest-in-indonesia/1666855.html

so you're saying that because there are no news stories going "moderate muslims behaving well, nothing to see here," they don't exist?

Where are the so called moderate Muslims and why aren't they decrying these atrocities, protesting, handing over suspected terrorists or hate mongering clerics etc?

so hoggy points out a group that represents muslims in britain, and you then disregard it? or do you literally want every single individual to declare their disapproval?

you're not saying they condone it but.... ? they're not decrying it so..... ?
the inference is that because you're not being overwhelmed with outcries of opposition that they must support it or not give a f***, otherwise what does your statement even mean?

handing over suspected terrorists? if you're not a fundamentalist then why would you be associating with others?

your posts are filled with so many assumptions and generalisations. I called you a bigot because you are jumping to giant conclusions about massive groups of people based on something you're not seeing rather than something you are seeing. that is intolerance and based on your own prejudices hence, bigot.

EDIT: and since you ignored it last time, I'll ask again. Show me the muslim news media that is glorifying the attack.

All Mosques with Hardline Clerics should be bulldozed.

The last few terrorist attacks have shown that interviewing persons of interest does nothing to prevent attacks. They need to shutdown the factories producing these people.

There are parallels here with the Gun Debate.

These Mosques are arming Moderate Islamics with radical Islam that is then funneled into violence against innocent Citizens. They are loading the bullets and giving them the targets.

All Mosques with Hardline Clerics should be bulldozed.

Nothing says we love freedom like denying others their religious freedom.

Please do not bring Islam into this. these murderous dogs are straight out criminals. Islam is a religion of peace.

theres something about the peace religion that seems to incite people to turn into nutcases and want to kill those they ideologically disagree with.

Please do not bring Islam into this. these murderous dogs are straight out criminals. Islam is a religion of peace.

Lol troll.

I believe it's got very little to do with religion or multiculturalism. The fact that they're black, islamic, british, or whatever, is slightly irrelevant alongside the fact that they're COMPLETELY CRAZY... I would guess they did this because there's something wrong with their heads, not because multiculturalism has failed or Islam is evil.

Ah yes, the typical "they have to be crazy" excuse. They did it because of their religion. It's a common occurrence. They aren't crazy, they are just scum following their hatred inciting religion.

Also i love the islam apologists who respond with "oh but the west blah blah blah" no matter what happens, there simply cannot be any criticism of islam which is the cause of the constant terrorist attacks across the world.

I think we're being a bit harsh on muslims here.

Aren't we missing the point that the UK has been meddling in muslim affairs for centuries?

Isn't it typical western supremacy to jump up and down when we're attacked but completely disregard anything we may have done to provoke such an attack, or I say, retaliation.

They targeted a soldier. Lets not beat around the bush. Soldiers are trained killers. It is their job. This soldier was paid to hunt down and kill muslims.

They hacked his head off, or something. Is this any different to having arms, heads and legs blown off by hellfire missiles or drone strikes? Or pounded from above by .30 cal explosive tipped machine gun fire? Or having arms, legs or heads blown off by .50 cal sniper rifles? Or being ripped to shreds by a GAU8 depleted uranium round? Not much different IMHO.

As most people did, I jumped to condemn Islam. But thinking deeper into it, isn't the UK at war with the Taliban who are an Islamic army?

Isn't it therefore fair for Muslims to wish to retaliate?

We use out superior technology to kill them from afar in the most brutal ways imaginable. We then laugh about it and send the liveleak clips to each other as 'entertainment.'

Is it not therefore fair that they recruit and encourage muslims within the enemies country to perform horrible acts in a terrifying psychological attack? They don't have the luxury of drone strikes or aircraft.. but they do have the luxury of fanatasism and brutal, hardcore violence which they cleverly used to put all over the internet.

Islam struck back. One trained killer lost his life. React to it how you would in any armed conflict.

but TDog, people's sensibilities are offended!
War is something that happens in far away Durkadurkastan, not on the streets of fair London!

have you been to london ?

it is durkadurkastan these days

I think its funny how the guy quotes the Bible.

f*** following anything anything written in 1446 bc.
Didn't they still think the world was flat?

Same s*** different day, different place.

You guys fighting over religion is so retarded, anyone that follows a religion is brainwashed.
It all comes down to what bulls*** your parents/friends put in you head as a kid. Do something different for a change.

Go and ENJOY LIFE for yourselves.

A kills B. so B's family kills A and his family, so C is friend of B so C kills B and his family and friends and D sees this and just wants to kill anyone so he/she does. E comes in and wants some action and can make money out of A B C and D and maked WMD's for A, so E makes WMD's for ABCDEFGHIJ YOU NOW GET HOW f***ING RETARDED FIGHTING IS!

I know this makes no sense but meh.

This soldier was paid to hunt down and kill muslims.

Oh hey Taylor. Nice name change.

Still trying to make this point are we? A couple of guys running down an unarmed man with a car and hacking him to death is not a legitimate act of war against a military asset. London is not a war zone, it is a place with laws that have to be followed. What these guys did is just straight up murder. I know I am kind of repeating myself here, but then again, so were you.

Reload seriously... reading comprehension required

so you're saying that because there are no news stories going "moderate muslims behaving well, nothing to see here," they don't exist?

I ask "Where are they?" and you have not answered the question - my question again, "Where are the news stories or demonstrations etc by moderate muslims etc etc"

I am not saying they arent there, but WHERE ARE THEY?

so hoggy points out a group that represents muslims in britain, and you then disregard it?

My response (assuming you actually read anything in this thread except those items that jump out at your narrow minded view), was as follows:

Hi Hogfather, no mate I saw that reference as I have seen previous statements by the same group after these incidents. But maybe I was unclear in my point...

This IMO surely counts as a "regard" to hoggies post?

I ignore the rest of your rant because i answered this in my first comment - read the original post and replies again - I am not saying they (moderate muslims) are not there, but for most other extremist views (i.e. right wing politics vs left wing politics) there are rallies and protests and so on both for and against. For religious (christian) idiocies like Westboro etc there are idiots promoting it and people protesting it... again - where are the news stories et al showing that an alternative view from the extremist muslims is being promoted.

EDIT: and since you ignored it last time, I'll ask again. Show me the muslim news media that is glorifying the attack.

Actually I did ignore it because there have been previous posts on this topic in other threads, but since you dont appear to have read those, just do a search for anything from Al Jazeera for example.

Note: Actually as i went to look for some links i found a LOT of interesting links about the media (sic) not publcising the anti-extremist stances taken by various and sundry muslim leaders/organisations etc. Nevermind that a lot of it was politically motivated or what ever, it was still gratifying to see that those links existed.

The western media has a lot to answer for with their sensationalist reporting of this... ok every thing :P

Actually I did ignore it because there have been previous posts on this topic in other threads, but since you dont appear to have read those, just do a search for anything from Al Jazeera for example.

Like this? What do you mean by "glorifying"?

that group is one example of where they are. that's what I meant by you disregarding it. you asked where are the moderates decrying this act. RIGHT f***ING THERE.

generally moderate anyone doesn't jump up and down and go bats*** because they are they are just that. I really don't understand this show of force you expect against extremist activities. especially from those who live in the middle east, fear of reprisal may be just one reason for not sticking your head up and saying "even though it should go without saying, we do not agree with rampant violence and terrorism against the western world." sectarian violence in their own countries is bad enough. to say suggest swathes of innocent muslims aren't victims of extremist violence is far more ignorant.

the peaceful protests that prompted the various arab spring revolutions are another good example that the majority of civilians over there do no regard violence as the answer. the fact that acts of terrorism and violence succeeded them does not diminish that at all.

claiming al jazeera glorifies terrorist activities is also pretty laughable.

you are able to maintain a reasonable tone, congrats. that doesn't make your points any less dumb.

EDIT:
to further point out how misconstrued your views are about "I don't see anyone with muslim names decrying this" and in a double wammy disproving your suggestions RE; al jazeera

Ahmed Jama, a 26-year-old resident in Woolwich, laid flowers down at the scene as a sign of respect to the families involved.

"This has nothing to do with Islam, this has nothing to do with our religion. This has nothing to do with Allah," he said.

"It's heartbreaking, it's heartbreaking."

a muslim with a muslim name decrying the act as quoted in al jazeera.

please, tell me more about my comprehension.

Oh yay you found one post by al Jazeera that implied condemnation of this act....Meanwhile any half baked search via Google will show that organisation roundly criticized for its continuing pro extremist views from multiple sources

Good work that

Meanwhile any half baked search via Google will show that organisation roundly criticized for its continuing pro extremist views from multiple sources

I did a half-baked search (and it was half-baked) and couldn't really find anything conclusively damning. Care to post a link?

Meanwhile any half baked search via Google will show that organisation roundly criticized for its continuing pro extremist views from multiple sources

Al Jazeera was YOUR example; it took 1/16th of a nanosecond for me to show you that you were wrong about them "glorifying" this incident.

I think all religious people should be shot, it's the only way to stop these senseless murders.

How about this - don't know if it's on YouTube, but basically, British Imam speaking out against it: facebook link

edit: for those like me that hate video, it is basically not just a Muslim speaking out against this atrocity, but an Imam who calls it like it is -these guys are just f***wit criminal scum not remotely associated with Islam

wow, overwhelming

And should Al Jazeera - which is presently only available in a few U.S. markets - be offered nationwide?

Matthew Baum, a professor of Global Communications and Public Policy at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government, says yes - but with a few caveats.

Baum, who watched Al Jazeera fairly regularly when he spent time in Europe in the past few years, says "there's no question the mix of editorial views on it are more critical of U.S. policy and Israel, and more sympathetic to Arab perspectives than what you'd see on an American network."

Baum says it's not surprising that Al Jazeera has a more pro-Arab editorial slant. "That's simply reflecting who their customers are, the perspective of the region."

And while some of what he heard in Al Jazeera broadcasts "annoyed the crap out of me," Baum adds that Americans should have "more exposure to what folks in that region think. We tend to be pretty uninformed about what's going on in that part of the world."

Eric Nisbet, a communications professor at Ohio State University who has studied Arab media and anti-Americanism, says it's important to distinguish between the English and Arabic channels of Al Jazeera. The English channel has a very cosmopolitan perspective and is staffed largely by former corespondents from the BBC and U.S. networks, he says.

The Arabic channel, not surprisingly, is aimed squarely at an Arab audience and prides itself on giving voice to a wide range of perspectives from throughout the region. The result? At times it airs the views of extremists, "sometimes without challenging them as much as they should," Nisbet says. "There are definitely some biases in that they are an Arabic channel for Arab audiences."

And yes, there is anti-Semitism, Nisbet adds. "Unfortunately in Arabic political discourse there is a great deal of anti-Semitism. The conversation there about Israel and American foreign policy is very different from our discourse in the U.S."

soooo a harvard professor's biggest criticism is that it's sometimes critical of the US and another says there are elements of anti-semitism. I see mention of extremist views but not glorifying acts of terrorism. I would argue fox news is FAR more extreme in just about everything it broadcasts than al jazeera.

Please feel free to continue expressing your own sensational opinions though.

Here's a random thought I had and I admit it may be off-kilter but anyways...

Killings in the name of religion happens in religiously fundamentalist countries (and others) all the time. This is a fact that I think everybody can agree on.

In the western world, capitalism is king and money is god. There aren't many things people won't do for money, whether that's working their hands to the bone, sucking dick, or in some cases even killing for it. Would you agree that whenever a murder occurs, money is a thing that is usually explored as a possible motive? Whether it just be a straight up robbery or a person killing their spouse to collect their life insurance, cash motivated killings happen all the time. So when we sit back and (rightly) say that these people are animals for killing for something as silly as their religion, is it not just as bad to kill someone for a monetary gain?

I'd be interested to see just how many murders occur in the western world where money is the motive. I bet it's a lot. I am sure that money motivated killings happen in fundamentalist countries as well, but by the same token religious related slaying occur in the western world also. Especially in America's South which is pretty fundamentalist on it's own.

How about this - don't know if it's on YouTube, but basically, British Imam speaking out against it: facebook link

edit: for those like me that hate video, it is basically not just a Muslim speaking out against this atrocity, but an Imam who calls it like it is -these guys are just f***wit criminal scum not remotely associated with Islam

That video says it best, nice find.

Great to see all the racists and bigots out in force through!

these guys are just f***wit criminal scum not remotely associated with Islam

wrong...

http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8630315.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/anjem-choudary.jpg

owwwwwww, he went there....

In the western world, capitalism is king and money is god. There aren't many things people won't do for money, whether that's working their hands to the bone, sucking dick, or in some cases even killing for it. Would you agree that whenever a murder occurs, money is a thing that is usually explored as a possible motive? Whether it just be a straight up robbery or a person killing their spouse to collect their life insurance, cash motivated killings happen all the time. So when we sit back and (rightly) say that these people are animals for killing for something as silly as their religion, is it not just as bad to kill someone for a monetary gain?

I'd be interested to see just how many murders occur in the western world where money is the motive.

Oh man I thought you were going to suggest someone arranged this for the life insurance... Find a couple crackheads, tell em to kill your husband while chanting allah akbar?

Would you agree that whenever a murder occurs, money is a thing that is usually explored as a possible motive? Whether it just be a straight up robbery or a person killing their spouse to collect their life insurance, cash motivated killings happen all the time.

I would hazard those kinds of killings would make be a fairly minor motive. Most murders are either a crime of passion (committed in the heat of the moment), a response to some sort of relationship breakdown, drug/alcohol affected, or straight out mental illness or personality disorder.

The Gerard Baden Clay murders are very much the exception rather than the rule.

This is a terrible thing and very sad of course. One thing that has caught my attention is the willingness of the media in parts to report this s*** like that are keeping a f***ing score card. Its feels like they are almost goading people into trying to one up each savage event.

Personally i think the media play a much bigger part in perpetuating these events and aiding in their own the increased frequence of them. The damn near immortalize certain killers and its f***ing sickening.

Well I googled this which was kind of interesting. Money/drugs make up 15% of male murders and 7% of female murders. You were right about domestic cases being the most prevalent. It seems the fairer sex really cops a hiding in that regard.

15% ia a significant number I reckon, especially considering that the highest percentage for males is 23% in the other argument category. Personally I find killing someone for monetary gain just as bad as killing someone over religion. I wish there were some American statistics to look at that were as neatly presented as those Australian ones. It would be about the same though wouldn't it?

And it's not just the killings either. It's also all the industrial accidents and what not that have occurred because people want to save money on the costs and cut corners. Take the recent collapse of the building in Bangladesh for example. Over 300 dead because Wal-Mart wanted to save money on costs so exploited the lax building codes of that country to save a few dimes. I wonder how many of these were caused by people cutting corners to save money. I bet there is a significant number of deaths involved.

So when people call the entire Muslim population animals for these religiously motivated killings, they should probably keep in mind all the money related killings and negligence related deaths that happen on our shores, and whether they'd accept being called animals for them in the same way. It's a pretty similar situation.

edit: holy s***, the death-toll was 1127, not around 300 like I thought :/

Well one assumes that money is also a motive for murder in theocratic societies as well.

The simple fact is that the human is still very much a broken vessel of emotions. The list of things we'll commit atrocities over is pretty long. Certainly a number of 'civilised' people I know advocate sinking refugee boats or 'glassing' the entire Middle East.

Anti-Islamic sentiment is just part of the cycle of mistrust and hate. It's no better and no worse than the broken ideology it seeks to oppose.

And what's the reason people want to sink refugee boats? Because it costs too much money to take them in apparently.

Just to be clear, I am not saying their religious killings are a one-one match with the wests money related killings. The numbers and circumstances involved would be wildly different. What is most similar is that there are a tiny percentage of Muslims killing people for religious reasons along with a tiny percentage of westerners killing people for money. When bigots sarcastically call it the religion of peace, or label the entire Muslim population as savages because of this tiny percentage, they should probably stop and think about how much misery is caused by people's willingness to save a dollar, and whether they'd like to be held personally responsible for others greedy actions that cause death and injury. No-one is really innocent here.

I find it interesting where i work here with a ton of indians in and indian owned and run company that i dont even know what religion they are. They even have a temple on company land right outside our gate yet i have no idea what religion it is. They dont push their values on a yone here at all and never speak of it unless asked directly. I find that is quite different from what i get from christians and muslims who both seem to want to make everyone join their parade and condem you if you dont.


Btw fpot do you not see the small number of certain groups in a population like that of the UK as being partly the reason they dont feature in stats as prominently as the typical native pom? Its an honest question i just want to know how you are judging things thats all.

Btw fpot do you not see the small number of certain groups in a population like that of the UK as being partly the reason they dont feature in stats as prominently as the typical native pom?

Maybe it's because it's getting late, but I'm not really understanding that question.

Okay I think I get it for reals now :P

The rough population demographics in England are 85.4% white, 7.8% Asian or Asian British, 3.5% black or black British, 2% British Mixed and 1% Arab and other ethic group (durkadurkastan indeed). Source

The crime statistics for people aged 10 (people in different stages of the criminal justice system) and over are 88.6% white, 2.7% black, 5.6% Asian, 1.4% mixed (not sure what that means) and 1.6% Chinese or other. Source

Now those numbers seem to match up to me. I don't think anybody could reasonably claim that there is currently a crime wave by ethnic groups going on in the UK. Not sure if that's what you were getting at. It better be because it was a pain typing that out :P

Yeah when the percentage of all crimes of that nature are based on the entire population the smaller group should contribute less i would hope. But if taken as a percentage of that group the number of those crimes is higher than that of similar groups.

Just lately for example ex pat Romainians have come under fire in england because of the fact that they have a stagheringly high representation in crime stats given the number of them that actually live in the uk. However if you put the stats attributed to them into the countries stats as a whole it can look like not such a big deal.

Sorry if i am stumbling over my words here its a bit early here.


Id just like to add that its obviously a lot more like you are going to be attacked for your wallet than because youre eating a bacon burger while pissing on someones holy book. So sure in that sense you are far more likely to die at the hands of a born and bred "countryman" than you are at the hands of some immigrant zealot.

agree with your comments about media keeping score, taipan. sort of on that topic in this week's time was a story about the syrian war and the way the different groups are using youtube or other video to one up each other with acts of brutality. the thrust of it was that if it weren't for the rise of internet videos then we might not have had things like old mate eating the dead soldier's heart recently. that they know people will see the videos is part of what's motivating people to commit worse and worse atrocities.

For sure, its not the press is going out and saying hey beat this if you can but they give so much sensationalistic press to these criminals its like an open invitation to top it. They more or less map out exactly what you have to do in order to get masses of attention and coverage.

Take mass shooting for a prime example, id be ok with never hearing the shooters name EVER. Instead what they do is paster the pricks face over everything give him a score and a ranking amougst the other scumbags that have done the same. This kind of reporting has more to answer for than any violent video game that they try to say motivated the prick to do what he did.

Of course the media is just playing to peoples inability to turn their head away when some drama crops up but they do it in an almost juvenile manner to grab as much press as they can in the hopes of jacking up ratings. It seems to me that human blood is more like a currency to the media than it is anything else. I think thats proven by the fact that theyll drown you in stories of horror from your own backyard knowing it has a great ability to shock you than a story about 20 iraqi kids dieing in a bomb blastin some land far away from your comfy little quiet suburb.

Interesting stats fpot, also shows that the UK is not somehow negatively over-immigrated or multi-cultural.. which some on here seem to be saying?

I lived in London for 8 years, the UK is one of the most liberal, democratic, tolerant, and generally quite safe/everyonegetsalone places I've ever seen. I'd say their model for handling immigration/multiculturalism is pretty decent, though they have been doing it long enough.

I agree with this video's sentiments wholeheartedly and sums up my point of view on this issue.

why is it considered a terrorist attack?

In relation to that question I thought this article was thought-provoking:

Was the London killing of a British soldier 'terrorism'? - The Guardian

they claim to be doing it because of war in their lands. I don't what what lands they were talking about because the only land they sounded like they came from was Peckham

lol, so true

Wow, with what the rest of what that guy said. He sure does makes a lot of sense, someone call the papers.

they claim to be doing it because of war in their lands. I don't what what lands they were talking about because the only land they sounded like they came from was Peckham