Apparently, Microsoft have been running a new series of ads in the US known as "Laptop Hunter".

$700 Matt and Olivia get an HP dv7
$1000 - Lauren gets a HP Pavilion
$1500 - Giampaolo gets an HP HDX
$2000 - Sheila gets an HP HDX

(note: there are some Dell and Sony ones as well, but these were the first ones I came across.)

Apple have apparently been crying to MS because they've now been forced to update their pricing, and want the ads to be updated.

Microsoft: Apple wanted 'Laptop Hunters' ads pulled

Now apple respond...




Lol.

Personally, I think the MS ads win this round. Pretty lame that Apple can't take what they give out (Refering to Mac vs PC x11ty billion).

http://uploader.ws/upload/200907/Macvspc2.jpg

LOL

nah wouldn't bother with a microsoft pc ever again

my mac has been flawless from day dot and does everything/more than I need it to
i dont mind paying a bit extra to have it just "work" all the time

the funny thing is i've reinstalled my windows pc 2 or 3 times since i got the macbook because the windows box will get the odd virus (even with a virus scanner and sitting behind a network + cautious user (me))

the mac has never had a virus scanner installed, has probably only been rebooted 20 times in the past 12+months etc

mac > pc

go thread

Mainly because macs are unpopular, and thus there is little point in writing a virus for one, when you can write a virus for a much wider audience.

I wouldn't want to develop a virus on a mac either, what a pain in the ass.

I guess this is made most obvious by Boot Camp.

IF YOU HAVE A MAC, BUT YOU THINK OSX IS s***, ITS OK - YOU CAN STILL USE WINDOWS ON OUR HARDWARE.

unpopular? elaborate?

i got nuthing against apple computers... but thier fanboys n thier lame bulls*** about being better people coz they bought product a & not product b annoy me. there are mac-dorks here at work that seriously think they are cooler nerds than the pc-using nerds, when in fact they are the dorkiest, nerdiest losers evah.

imo these incredibly lame advertising campains just make apple & microsoft both look equally pathetic.

We were talking about this the other day. Depending on who you believe, MacOS usage accounts for ~ 6% of total OS usage.

e.g.

http://mongie.com/ulimages/bfi1247794624i.JPG

Thats from W3 btw.

Zy is my new favourite poster.

Windows is flawless for me ... never get viruses or anything, no idea what people are complaining about.

I don't really care what's better because it's going to be down to individual choice at the end of the day ... however, Mac adverts are irritatingly pretentious.

motherf***ing

.

(and I'm not anti-apple, I own an iPhone ffs.)

If one Apple laptop fits all, why is there the MacBook, MacBook Pro (with six variants), and MacBook Air (with two variants)?

IF THEY MADE THE POINT THAT THEY HAD DIFFERENT MODELS, THEN HOW WOULD THEY MAKE WITTY ADVERTISEMENTS LIKE THE ONE ABOVE MANTOROK?

Ugh, we doing this again? I pass I think. Ad wars make for interesting reading though. That said...

unpopular? elaborate?

Macs have 6(?) percent share, compared with MS' 90%. This means that if you target a virus at Windows you have a 15x wider potential audience. This is why most software including viruses gets written for Windows, its all about maximising your potential customers or victims.

OSX is innately no more secure than Windows, assuming you aren't running either OS as root or local admin (as a large percentage of XP users are probably still doing).

sorry teq but that just gives you a case to run ubuntu or some other linux flavour, not to fork out $$$ on a girly mac

brett@brett:~$ uname -a
Linux brett 2.6.27-11-generic #1 SMP Wed Apr 1 20:53:41 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux

never said mac was the be all and end all, just fyi
just that microsoft is crap, market share or not it has never been a "Great" operating system - ever

last edited by tequila at 11:54:59 17/Jul/09

Lots of the gays like Macs teq.

Just sayin.

I love these ads. The people look genuine. They go through the same frustrations I go through when shopping for a laptop. I can associate with them.

This is a great hitback by Micrososft, and it's fantastic to see a genuine competitive struggle in the OS/Laptop market.

lots of people like religion too, does that make religion great and atheism 'gay'

Seems a lot like the Australian 2 party system.

Labor / Liberal - with a few groups of (sort of ineffectual) independents.

MS / Apple - with a few groups of (sort of ineffectual) independents.

With the politics ... it sux and no citizen gets good representation. The parties do but they were formed to represent their constituants, not themselves

With the OS firms ... They are making a product for their targets ...

ffs, get over it. It's Peter Jacksons over Peter Styvesants... if you keep on arguing, you keep on buying. They Know it

Just demand better and support your preferred.

Somme_scum... AMD 5600+ / Nvidia9800GT

lots of people like religion too, does that make religion great and atheism 'gay'

Haha this makes no sense dude. Did you mean to say something else?

Don't get riled up and angry cos you share an appreciation of the funky Macs with the pinky crowd. Its ok, really!

Macs are s***. Why the f*** would I pay an 1000 dollars extra for s***tier parts? OH BUT IT LOOKS GREAT AND GOES AWESOME WITH THIS KETTLE I JUST PURCHASED!

24-inch: 2.93GHz
2.93GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4gb memeory
8x double-layer SuperDrive
640GB hard drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 256MB memory
A$ 2,999.00


The end.

But it just works ctd! Unlike PCs which are RIDDLED with CONSTNT PROBLEMS and people who use them spend HOURS JUST WORKING OUT HOW TO LISTEN TO MP3s.

Apple s*** just works man, its f***ing great. The computer tells you how you will do stuff and you do as you are told and EVERYTHIGN WORKS OMGSZ

Wait I wasn't going to be in this thread. I tried to get out, but it sucked me back in...

last edited by Hogfather at 12:46:13 17/Jul/09

teq this is a gaming forum, do you do any gaming? Personally that's the only reason I haven't installed ubuntu/OSX.

wow doesn't count.

The only thing I hate about Apple users is that they have a Mac and I don't

:((((((

Macs are s***. Why the f*** would I pay an 1000 dollars extra for s***tier parts? OH BUT IT LOOKS GREAT AND GOES AWESOME WITH THIS KETTLE I JUST PURCHASED!

winnar winnar, chicken dinnar.

For those that say macs are bulletproof its a big load of s***.

I used to have to support them(well my offsider did) and there were about 30 macs vs 200+ pcs. I'd have to say that time spent on mac support vs pc support for desktops the macs were a lot more time spent, despite having a lot less users.

OH BUT IT LOOKS GREAT AND GOES AWESOME WITH THIS KETTLE I JUST PURCHASED!

They should have included the kettle. I NEVER GOT A KETTLE :(

P.S. Mac is a Unix operating system, it must be better...

brett@brett:~$ uname -a
Linux brett 2.6.27-11-generic #1 SMP Wed Apr 1 20:53:41 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux

never said mac was the be all and end all, just fyi
just that microsoft is crap, market share or not it has never been a "Great" operating system - everlast edited by tequila at 11:54:59 17/Jul/09

More NTP required.

Anyone notice teq's time? April fools! woohoo

Also, I hate mac fanbois. Nothing against macs in general though.

I think the argument is like Ford vs. Holden - it's stupid, but it's good for business and keeps the spotlight on them, so both companies try to keep the fight alive.

My ipod crashes far more often then my PC does.
AN MP3 PLAYER!!!

Styvo's over PJ's any day.

styvo's taste like hay pulled from camel s***.

Get the best of both worlds, load Mac osx on normal pc hardware. Of course even if u purchase osx retail, the eula prevents u from loading it on aything but a mac.

If i were suggesting a laptop to a normal everyday user, i'd tell them to get a mac.

smoking is more retarded than arguing on the internet

If i were suggesting a laptop to a normal everyday user, i'd tell them to get a mac.

A normal everyday user shouldn't fork out more than a grand on a laptop IMO.

I'd probably suggest a Dell of some description, because if they EVAR call me I can refer them to Dell's support line.

I'd probably suggest a Dell of some description, because if they EVAR call me I can refer them to Dell's support line.

^ This. Have you ever tried calling apple support? "We can send you a DIY repair kit!" Like mac users even know what a screwdriver is!

Dell: "Be there tomorrow, don't worry!"

My PC
- Intel i7 920 @ 3.2ghz
- 6 gig ram
- GTX285

My Desktop Mac (Mac Pro)
- 2xQuad core2 2.8
- 10 gig ram
- 9800GT

Mac Pro gets a lot more use than my PC for everything except gaming. Gaming is 100% PC. I spend a s***-load less time having to rescue my mac than I do my PC. Windows 7 on the PC helps a lot, but its still not as reliable as OS-X at least from my experience even though the superior hardware specs.

For laptops I'd never touch a PC, formatting or installing drivers while on the road or going to a meeting is just crazy with mission critical data.

simul, grab a GTX280 for your Mac and get rid of your PC. Easily done.

or installing drivers while on the road or going to a meeting is just crazy with mission critical data

If this was ANY sort of a likely outcome for a business PC and Apple was by comparison rocksolid then business would be trying its best to move to Apple. Ergo, its not. At all.

Companies have SOEs for this reason - to control software and hardware to improve reliability so that mission critical data is available.

BTW, someone keeping count for buzzword bingo? lets add 'just works' to the f***ing list while we're here.

BeOS 4 lyfe

Ubuntu.

(yeah at this point i'm just baiting but i still use it daily)

hogfather for el presidente.

I was 100% Windows up until about November last year. Tried Linux a few times during the years, didn't have ANY use for it. Actually tried running OS X Tiger, didn't have ANY use for it.

Then I stopped gaming. Then I bought an iPhone. The logical choice along with wanting to try iPhone development was to sell my huge loud annoying PC and get a Mac mini. Never looked back. Been 100% reliable, as well as having Time Machine, which is a huge bonus when you need seamless, incremental backup.

simul, grab a GTX280 for your Mac and get rid of your PC. Easily done.

er, he mite have the hardware, but he'd still have no games to play on it

I was 100% Windows up until about November last year

When did you start your job in the Apple shop?

hogfather for el presidente.

we just bought a mac at work for testing. i think its a good product to surf the web on. id like to get my folks one so they can itunes, surf, email and be at less risk of virus'

^ thats when i built this kernel pinky

brett@brett:~$ date;uname -a
Fri Jul 17 16:50:59 EST 2009
Linux brett 2.6.27-11-generic #1 SMP Wed Apr 1 20:53:41 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
brett@brett:~$

I just retired the old battle rig (p3 700mhz) I bought off Bajo(name dropping++) back in 2000 when he was just a tech monkey at Compugate/Sunrit. Nearly 10 yrs of service and about a gazillion BSD's.

So I got a new rig and was going to put XP on it but then reneged and put Vista on it so I only have to get the Win7 upgrade.

My expectations of Vista like everyone else was very low so it came at no surprise that its a bloated piece of crap. Anyway it will do until October/November.

It will be interesting to see in a yrs time after Win7 has been established how the Mac Vs PC battle is going.

er, he mite have the hardware, but he'd still have no games to play on it

Um, Macs can run Windows now...

Um, Macs can run Windows now...

Then why get rid of the PC if you're just going to run Windows on the Mac? It's not going to run Windows better, and he has to buy another video card.

I game therefore I PC

we just bought a mac at work for testing. i think its a good product to surf the web on. id like to get my folks one so they can itunes, surf, email and be at less risk of virus'

get them a ubuntu based netbook, way cheaper and ubuntu is a piece of piss to use.

edit: Since macs can now run windows, howcome you can't go out & buy osx to run it on your PC like you can go out & buy a windows cd? Do mac's still have some piece of unique hardware in them or something?

last edited by whoop at 19:12:40 17/Jul/09

^ Yeah it's called EFI.

writing music wise, i can do a lot more with my pc than my keyboardist with his mac can do....

.vst's for mac are a joke compared to the options for p.c


macs are for clowns who wear there pants around there knees and show there jocks to everyone....i.e trendsetters

Yeah it's called EFI.

That's been supported by Vista x64 since Service Pack 1.

I love all the anecdotal evidence in this thread.

That's been supported by Vista x64 since Service Pack 1.

What is the hold up with EFI on PC's? Macs have used EFI for years but PCs are still stuck with ol BIOS.

edit: Since macs can now run windows, howcome you can't go out & buy osx to run it on your PC like you can go out & buy a windows cd? Do mac's still have some piece of unique hardware in them or something?

the biggest issues with using Mac OS X on PCs is that the OS is specifically tailored for concrete hardware combinations (most notably driver availability and also the need for an EFI motherboard). They simply don't require the amount of generic compatibility found in Windows cause they only develop the OS for Mac computers.

Then why get rid of the PC if you're just going to run Windows on the Mac? It's not going to run Windows better, and he has to buy another video card.

umm buy a few hundred video card and sell the PC for way more. The whole idea is that you can have one mac that boots into both operating systems.

Macs have used EFI for years but PCs are still stuck with ol BIOS.

It's a bit if a catch 22 situation. There's been no hardware manufacturers pushing it, so MS didn't see the need to implement it. And without Windows support, there's no great incentive for hardware manufacturers to introduce it.

the biggest issues with using Mac OS X on PCs is that the OS is specifically tailored for concrete hardware combinations (most notably driver availability and also the need for an EFI motherboard). They simply don't require the amount of generic compatibility found in Windows cause they only develop the OS for Mac computers.

I bet if MS did the same Windows would be just as awesome as OSX is.

So if I had a Mac (heaven forbid) I could put vista x64 or presumably windows 7 on it and it would just exactly the same as a normal PC? Just as fast as a PC of the same specs?

Yes. Basically the only difference is that it somehow emulates or has a BIOS so Windows can run. It runs it completely native.

So 3dee, do you have a hardon for OSX or mac computers?

Yes. Basically the only difference is that it somehow emulates or has a BIOS so Windows can run. It runs it completely native.

He doesn't even need that with Vista SP1 or Windows 7. They run an EFI file on the DVD to install.

at the end of the day, most consumers dont give 2 hoots about all that technical jargon.....
which, back to the thread topic, is where the ads are coming from.
as a consumer, i prefer p.c

I actually tried to push the mac option on a few people I didnt want to support, but they dont want them because it is different to what they have to use at work.

All were above the age of 45 years old. Was quite odd but I guess it makes sense.

I actually tried to push the mac option on a few people I didnt want to support, but they dont want them because it is different to what they have to use at work.

All were above the age of 45 years old. Was quite odd but I guess it makes sense.

Not that suprising, non-technical users who have been taught Windows and only use a set of predefined apps (ie: MSOffice) would definitely freak out over any sort of change (especially seeing OS-X Microsoft software is very badly designed).

That being said OS-X is a much superior OS and I'll happily debate with anyone who thinks Windows is.

PS. Apple hardware is generally much more reliable than anything made by Dell, HP, Asus etc :).

That being said OS-X is a much superior OS

This statement would be correct if OS-X allows gamers to play the latest games.

Which it doesn't.

That being said OS-X is a much superior OS and I'll happily debate with anyone who thinks Windows is.

OSX Vs Windows 7.....GO! :P

Seriously, why is OSX So good?

OSX Vs Windows 7.....GO! :P

Seriously, why is OSX So good?

- Windows 7 is going application-centric rather than window-centric, but they haven't gone all the way yet, perhaps the next version (OS-X is app-centric)
- OS-X is unix based, Windows is NT based
- OS-X doesn't have legacy code for older OS's, Windows has a s***load which causes some pain
- All drivers for Apple hardware are written by Apple and fit into the OS seamlessly (as OS-X knows the exact hardware its installing itself on), Windows...well, they don't really have a choice
- OS-X has a better file system than NTFS (even though its not great), and soon to have built in support for ZFS
- OS-X has Safari as the default browser, Windows has IE
- OS-X is more secure than Windows, regardless of market share
- Python, Ruby, PHP, Apache, MySQL, Java, SSH, VNC, Flash are built into OS-X. Windows has to be manually done.
- OS-X can do target mode (which turns the computer into a Firewire external hard-drive without booting), Windows doesn't.
- Hard links built in hard drive backup which works beautifully (Time Machine), windows has "System Restore"
- Setting up a web server, ftp server, printer server, file server (NTP, SMB, AFP) is a 1 click process and actually works.
- All macs can run Parallels utilizing VTX with OS coherence, though Win7 will have this
- OS-X comes with decent photo, video editing, audio editing, calendaring software built in
- OS-X can read, edit and save to PDFs natively in the OS!
- OS-X is a keyboard shortcut dream come true, Windows not so much
- OS-X has much better software for things like SVN, FTP, Social networks, Text Editors, RSS etc. Windows has much better software for games.
- Standard OS-X is 64bit, rather than 2 different skews

Thats a start at least, happy to debate.

last edited by simul at 20:45:44 18/Jul/09

Cool, I liked your list so much I just bought a mac but when I try to install all my favourite games it doesn't want to install, what's going on?

- OS-X has Safari as the default browser, Windows has IE
- Python, Ruby, PHP, Apache, MySQL, Java, SSH, VNC, Flash are built into OS-X. Windows has to be manually done.
- OS-X can do target mode (which turns the computer into a Firewire external hard-drive without booting), Windows doesn't.
- Hard links built in hard drive backup which works beautifully (Time Machine), windows has "System Restore"
- Setting up a web server, ftp server, printer server, file server (NTP, SMB, AFP) is a 1 click process and actually works.
- All macs can run Parallels utilizing VTX with OS coherence, though Win7 will have this
- OS-X comes with decent photo, video editing, audio editing, calendaring software built in

- I'd just use the default browser to install firefox anyway
- What the hell kind of cologne wearing, latte drinking, turtle neck sweater owning hippie art student is going to want to run a bunch of obscure scripting languages, web servers or databases on their computer which mainly gets used for downloading porn/music and writing up school reports? That's the most retarded reason to buy a mac I've seen thus far
- I'm not sure what target mode is or why I'd want to turn my entire computer into some kind of external hard drive but the "without booting" part leads me to believe this is more of a hardware thing than software so isn't a valid mac vs pc point.
- Anyone who relies on built in backup solutions is an idiot.
- See previous point about most home users not really needing to set up web servers, file servers and any other kind of server other than a shared print queue.
- Not sure what this parallels thing is but if macs let me run xp at full speed from within osx then woohoo that's 1 good thing.
- So OSX comes with Photoshop / Premiere quality software built right in? f*** yes! Time to switch.


Seriously, when you have to resort to a bunch of wanky reasons and start grasping at straws as to why an os is better when most of the population apparently "just want a computer that works" I think it's time you admit you're an idiot for buying a mac just because they're trendy and stop trying to make everyone else buy them so you won't feel like such an idiot, and at least if you do you won't feel like an idiot alone.

Anyone who relies on built in backup solutions is an idiot.

I fully rely on Time Machine. It has been flawless and has saved me a few times and also allowed me to go back to specific file versions (when looking for old code for example). Not to mention it has actually EXISTED. Period.

Windows has the s***tiest backup system. Actually its not really a backup system. Its more like a "DLL/registry backup". If you want to backup your actual files, you have to use WIndows Backup manually and its not an incremental automated seamless don't-care-how-it-works-it-just-backs-everything-for-when-really-need system.

- OS-X is unix based, Windows is NT based

Probably the most useful point in regards to OS robustness. Regardless of being Mac OS, Unix is known for its security. How many web servers and dedicated gaming servers run *nix operating systems...

I'd just use the default browser to install firefox anyway

Firefox takes about five times longer than Safari to open. It also does on Windows anyway whenever I've used it. Personally I think Firefox is way overrated. Chrome is much better. I don't use plugins though.

ee previous point about most home users not really needing to set up web servers, file servers and any other kind of server other than a shared print queue.

As someone who develops PHP code, this is one of THE most useful "built-ins" in Mac OS. I click some buttons and I can suddenly start running local PHP code. In Windows you have to download software for it.

Oh and one other point: Mac OS can mount disk images (dmg, iso). Windows is clueless... still.

- OS-X has a better file system than NTFS (even though its not great), and soon to have built in support for ZFS

Not having to defragment is a pretty big plus for HFS+. In fact, its amazing how much less manual maintenance I have to do in order to keep my Mac running and running well. I basically do nothing, except emptying the recycle bin.

Like I said, I'd never had any use for a Mac or Mac OS, but after having completely gotten rid of Windows, its easy to see (at least from my own perspective and computing needs) how much better Mac OS is as a whole for a lot of people.

This whole notion of a "smart, well designed operating system means your idiot" is f***ing stupid. Who the f*** wants to reinstall Windows every 3 months, defragment every second day, restart every time you change something miniscule in the system.

I remember while being a 100% PC user, I would have to continuously reinstall Windows a few times a year because it would just turn to crap. I havent once had even the slightest desire to do that on Mac OS. The thing keeps itself running, which in my view, is a pretty f***ing nice thing to have and from a programmer's point of view, I nice thing to do for your users.

Using a self maintaining, fully featured, intuitively designed operating system makes you idiot?

cue flaming and insults...

last edited by 3dee at 23:22:04 18/Jul/09

Cool, I liked your list so much I just bought a mac but when I try to install all my favourite games it doesn't want to install, what's going on?

Whats your favourite games? Specifics would be nice

- I'd just use the default browser to install firefox anyway

This is irrelevant when comparing two operating systems.

- What the hell kind of cologne wearing, latte drinking, turtle neck sweater owning hippie art student is going to want to run a bunch of obscure scripting languages, web servers or databases on their computer which mainly gets used for downloading porn/music and writing up school reports? That's the most retarded reason to buy a mac I've seen thus far

If all you use a computer for is watching porn and writing up high school reports, then a PC is fine for you.

- I'm not sure what target mode is or why I'd want to turn my entire computer into some kind of external hard drive but the "without booting" part leads me to believe this is more of a hardware thing than software so isn't a valid mac vs pc point.

Macs can do it, PCs can't, seems fairly relevant as a "mac vs pc point."

- Anyone who relies on built in backup solutions is an idiot.

By your logic then any backup system that uses rsync is an idiot?

- See previous point about most home users not really needing to set up web servers, file servers and any other kind of server other than a shared print queue.

If you personally do not need the functionality then congratulations, but again is a relevant point when comparing the operating systems.

- So OSX comes with Photoshop / Premiere quality software built right in? f*** yes! Time to switch.

Does Windows come with Photoshop/Premiere installed? Moot point. And if you think Premiere is a quality piece of software I feel sorry for you.

I am not going to bother with your final comment because it doesn't seem to forward the conversation. But seriously would love to see a list of your favourite games.

God this is ridiculous, its just an OS! I don't think I spent as much time deciding whether to propose to my wife as some of you put into comparing computer Operating Systems.

For me, I use Windows and develop software for it because all my clients run Windows. If I switched to OSX I would have no clients and go broke. Its also nice that every game ever made seems to work on it, though I don't get a lot of game time these days.

When Apple gets a non-negligible market share, and a development environment as productive as Visual Studio I'll revisit my position. OSX is a massively minority player, its not worth my time.

What's this Mac vs PC thing?

It is only PC vs PC with differing operating systems. People can argue till their blue which OS is better but the fact of the matter is neither person (A person who bought a PC running software made by apple, or a person who bought/built their own PC that can run windows) is locked into one.

Stop arguing PC vs PC, it's silly.

Does Windows come with Photoshop/Premiere installed? Moot point. And if you think Premiere is a quality piece of software I feel sorry for you.

No it doesn't and I never claimed it did. Windows comes with software to cut scenes from movies & add transitions which as far as I'm concerned is all joe average is going to want to do. Premiere is crap (what's with not being able to open mpeg files? gg) I just used it as an example of a more advanced program that can do more than simply add transitions or splice video footage. If it's a moot point then why did you use it as a reason osx is better?

Macs can do it, PCs can't, seems fairly relevant as a "mac vs pc point."

If it is indeed a "mac" hardware feature and not an OSX feature then it too should have been left out of your reasons as to why osx is better than windows. You said you can do it without booting which leads me to believe it's part of the hardware that OSX runs on, yes? If it is part of OSX then your statement about being able to do it without booting up is misleading and I'll retract my opinion (I do see a useful side to that feature but if it is hardware based it has no place in an OS war).

This is irrelevant when comparing two operating systems.

You're the one that brought up safari vs ie so if it's irrelevant why'd you mention it in the first place? I notice you edited that point out of your original list.

If you personally do not need the functionality then congratulations, but again is a relevant point when comparing the operating systems.

I'll give you that.


last edited by whoop at 02:32:30 19/Jul/09

- Windows 7 is going application-centric rather than window-centric, but they haven't gone all the way yet, perhaps the next version (OS-X is app-centric)

True, but really to the average user they can't tell the difference

- OS-X is unix based, Windows is NT based

Ubuntu is linux based, that didnt make it good for desktops either

- OS-X doesn't have legacy code for older OS's, Windows has a s***load which causes some pain

Backwards compatability?

- All drivers for Apple hardware are written by Apple and fit into the OS seamlessly (as OS-X knows the exact hardware its installing itself on), Windows...well, they don't really have a choice

Exactly, so restricted to apple's high prices and lack of customization in hardware and also their attempt at a monopoly.

- OS-X has a better file system than NTFS (even though its not great), and soon to have built in support for ZFS

I honestly have no issues with NTFS, it works, it is fast enough, I dont have data corruption and I can easily recover data with a recovery tool should a drive screw up. ZFS is useless for the majority of users out there unfortunatly.

- OS-X has Safari as the default browser, Windows has IE

It saddens me to say that I would use IE 8 over Safari.
I use firefox or chrome over both of them but Safari still feels old and clunky too me

- OS-X is more secure than Windows, regardless of market share

This always interested me, because really, and you have to admit, the main reason mac OSX is so secure and has so little virii, is because its really not that popular.

- Python, Ruby, PHP, Apache, MySQL, Java, SSH, VNC, Flash are built into OS-X. Windows has to be manually done.

For a non-dev that is just adding too the install size.

- OS-X can do target mode (which turns the computer into a Firewire external hard-drive without booting), Windows doesn't.

I had never heard of this but for me personally its useless. Mainly because a lot of non mac PCs dont have firewire and also I have a 32gig usb key on my keyring that traffics data fine. I have a 320gig passport drive as well.

- Hard links built in hard drive backup which works beautifully (Time Machine), windows has "System Restore"

This is true, timeline is a great feature, windows does have a backup tool in 7 which works for daily backups quite well, but not incremental every our. That said, I could also just pay an extra $20 and use This or this.

- Setting up a web server, ftp server, printer server, file server (NTP, SMB, AFP) is a 1 click process and actually works.

Using IIS (You wouldnt really :P), sharing files or printers is hardly rocket science in windows. In fact, in windows 7, file sharing between computers is so stupidly easy, my parents can set it up between 3 machines running windows 7....

- All macs can run Parallels utilizing VTX with OS coherence, though Win7 will have this

Well you made that easy for me :)

- OS-X comes with decent photo, video editing, audio editing, calendaring software built in

Does it have a program the same as MSpaint tho? last time I checked it didnt. The photo browser in 7 is basic but not bad, video it has windows movie maker, audio there is nothing and calendaring no, you get that in office.

- OS-X can read, edit and save to PDFs natively in the OS!

Windows you have the choice which costs you 1mb and 45 seconds of your time of which FREE PDF Editor/Printer you want too use.

- OS-X is a keyboard shortcut dream come true, Windows not so much

I dont use a lot of keyboard shortcut's but I am fairly certain you can customise a lot of shortcuts in windows

- OS-X has much better software for things like SVN, FTP, Social networks, Text Editors, RSS etc. Windows has much better software for games.

MSN and IE 8...what else do you need for social networks? Notepad/wordpad? Windows gadgets that stream RRS feeds? SVN Need not apply for non devs :)

- Standard OS-X is 64bit, rather than 2 different skews

Where windows allows you to choose and use your existing hardware :)

Media player also has all the divx/xvid codecs loaded in by default now as well
Should add in windows media center as a bonus and the ability to have a massive range of software and games available for free or for a small amount so I can customize my OS the way I like and not be restricted.

I can see why you like OSX and thats great, but if it was the be all to end all OS, it would have a higher market share :)

No it doesn't and I never claimed it did. Windows comes with software to cut scenes from movies & add transitions which as far as I'm concerned is all joe average is going to want to do. Premiere is crap (what's with not being able to open mpeg files? gg) I just used it as an example of a more advanced program that can do more than simply add transitions or splice video footage. If it's a moot point then why did you use it as a reason osx is better?

Mainly because OS-X comes with iMovie which is actually quite powerful unlike WMM.

If it is indeed a "mac" hardware feature and not an OSX feature then it too should have been left out of your reasons as to why osx is better than windows. You said you can do it without booting which leads me to believe it's part of the hardware that OSX runs on, yes? If it is part of OSX then your statement about being able to do it without booting up is misleading and I'll retract my opinion (I do see a useful side to that feature but if it is hardware based it has no place in an OS war).

Forgive the confusion, its a boot mode, its a culmination of software and hardware that makes it possible.

Ubuntu is linux based, that didnt make it good for desktops either

The underlying core OS has little to do with user experience, much more with stability and security. Ubuntu's issues of user experience are mainly to do with the fact they are using an archaic windowing system.

Backwards compatability?

OS-X is only backwards compatible for about 5 years. Windows is much longer. I consider this a pro rather than a con, it means OS resources aren't being dedicated to "just in case I try to run an app that was built for windows 95". That and Mac OS before X were just plain crap.

Exactly, so restricted to apple's high prices and lack of customization in hardware and also their attempt at a monopoly.

No, it means the OS isn't having to deal with s***ty drivers written by third parties, which is often why Windows is unstable (thinking here Creative, Bluetooth, WIFI and nVidia drivers)

I honestly have no issues with NTFS, it works, it is fast enough, I dont have data corruption and I can easily recover data with a recovery tool should a drive screw up. ZFS is useless for the majority of users out there unfortunatly.

Defragmentation? OS compatibility? Security on specific files?

It saddens me to say that I would use IE 8 over Safari.
I use firefox or chrome over both of them but Safari still feels old and clunky too me

That is cool and I respect that, the main issue here is that IE is tied right into the OS (unless you get the EU versions). I will happily admit that Safari on Windows is bloddy awful. And chrome and safari are basically the same thing (webkit), they just have different UI's over the top.

This always interested me, because really, and you have to admit, the main reason mac OSX is so secure and has so little virii, is because its really not that popular.

That was the argument when OS-X market share was at 1-2%, its now at 6-8%. And if virus creators are anything like the rest of the IT industry and don't like mac users inflamed ego don't you think they would be spitting out mac viruses just to piss us off or to take advantage of machines that don't have AV software?

I had never heard of this but for me personally its useless. Mainly because a lot of non mac PCs dont have firewire and also I have a 32gig usb key on my keyring that traffics data fine. I have a 320gig passport drive as well.

Target mode isn't a big feature, its just one of those nice things that saves you once or twice, that is all.

Does it have a program the same as MSpaint tho? last time I checked it didnt. The photo browser in 7 is basic but not bad, video it has windows movie maker, audio there is nothing and calendaring no, you get that in office.

Preview can do all the import/export as well as annotations, but you are correct there isn't software built in that does pixel based editing. iPhoto is much more about being able to get photos in, browse them, do adjustment filters and then upload them to flickr/facebook as easily as possible. WMM has nothing on iMovie.

Windows you have the choice which costs you 1mb and 45 seconds of your time of which FREE PDF Editor/Printer you want too use.

So does OS-X, but it also has it built in, so you don't have to waste that 45 seconds.

MSN and IE 8...what else do you need for social networks? Notepad/wordpad? Windows gadgets that stream RRS feeds? SVN Need not apply for non devs :)

Twitter, decent IM, facebook, flickr, blogging, rss integration apps are much much more feature full and complete than ones on windows.

Where windows allows you to choose and use your existing hardware :)

Which I completely understand is a fair point when you have users with older PC hardware, it just means the high end OS (64 bit) is not as well supported *cough* XP 64 drivers *cough*

Media player also has all the divx/xvid codecs loaded in by default now as well

This I will admit is something that Windows has done very very well

Should add in windows media center as a bonus

Front row is an app that comes with OS-X that is basically AppleTV.

and the ability to have a massive range of software and games available for free or for a small amount so I can customize my OS the way I like and not be restricted.

There are no restrictions on OS-X as a platform, Windows has a lot more applications out there fair point, but there is nothing stopping from any customization of the OS.

I can see why you like OSX and thats great, but if it was the be all to end all OS, it would have a higher market share :)

I don't think its the be all, I just think its better than what else is out there based on my experience, and thats just my personal opinion.

The main reason I bait myself into these discussions is because to me its a shame that a lot of anti-mac sentiments from the IT community come from people who have no real knowledge about OS-X and are just ignorant when it comes to anything that isn't Windows. If people have the facts and choose Windows then more power to them, but saying OS-X or linux is s*** without understanding the differences is embarrassing, it's exactly the same as mac fanboys that have never used Windows in their life.

Mainly because OS-X comes with iMovie which is actually quite powerful unlike WMM.

Wrong. The iLife suite is included in the cost of a new Mac, but it's still a separate product from OSX. Which is why going from iLife '08 to iLife '09 costs $129.

Who gives a s*** how good OS-X is? It runs on overpriced Macs that can't be upgraded and look like s***. When OS-X can be installed on any PC like Windows can then it is comparable but until then it's not even worth mentioning.

To upgrade the RAM on my PC costs me $50 bucks, to upgrade RAM on a Mac costs you 2+ grand.

I'm getting a new computer for work. There wasn't even a decision for me - Mac was the only real option, and I've used Windows all my life. I feel like I'm breaking free of the shackles.

Now I plan on upgrading my home PC to Mac, and I won't ever look back!

Wrong. The iLife suite is included in the cost of a new Mac, but it's still a separate product from OSX. Which is why going from iLife '08 to iLife '09 costs $129.

So its $129 to *upgrade*? You have a mac, you have iLife. The cost is only if you want the new version.

To upgrade the RAM on my PC costs me $50 bucks, to upgrade RAM on a Mac costs you 2+ grand.

RAM for a Mac is exactly the same as RAM for a PC, the reason it is more expensive is cause of the RAM timings/latency. RAM by crucial, corsair etc work fine in a Mac as long as the quality is high enough.

Who gives a s*** how good OS-X is? It runs on overpriced Macs that can't be upgraded and look like s***. When OS-X can be installed on any PC like Windows can then it is comparable but until then it's not even worth mentioning.

I'm not going to comment on the looks because that is personal choice. Upgradability? in a mac pro you can easily upgrade CPU, Ram, Video card, Hard drive as well as extra PCI/PCie slots. The laptops are as upgradable as any other generic PC laptop, and the iMac and Mac Mini are special builds, same as any PC special build.

billy, you just made me throw up in my mouth

I love macs. Paying that 30%-40% premium for the same hardware is awesome!

For my premium, I have the ability to do most of the things that windows users can!! Check out my ability to read a PDF file!! Can't play most of my favourite games but oh who cares really... my integrated backup solution more than makes up for it.

/sarcasm

So its $129 to *upgrade*? You have a mac, you have iLife. The cost is only if you want the new version.

Yes, but if I buy a PC from Harvey Norman (lol) that comes with Office, that doesn't make Office part of Windows.

Im tempted to hackintosh my dell 1340 just to have a play and try out some of the things in this thread, but Im betting if I come back saying I dont like it still, I will be told because it is different if I installed it on a mac :P

I got nothign against macs except their outrageous pricing and having to pay $400 for a warranty.

If they dropped their pricing they'd sell tonnes more.