The Government's plan to introduce mandatory internet censorship has effectively been scuttled, following an independent senator's decision to join the Greens and Opposition in blocking any legislation required to get the scheme started.

i like bolanaise sauce

as long as senator xylophone actually does oppose it and doesn't just get it altered slightly, then yeah this is good news

how does he suggest they 'crack open' peer to peer networks though

good riddance to bad rubbish.

maybe by getting a team of jailed leet hax0rs and paying them nothing to do whatever the govt wants

heres hoping

At last, a ray of common sense through the storm clouds of stupidity!

Xenophon said ... the Government should instead put the money towards ... tackling "pedophiles through cracking open those peer-to-peer groups".

Awwww. Maybe not.
I'm not sure I follow the connection between P2P and pedophilia.

Conroy will stop at nothing until hes made a complete fool of himself, and well, hes not quite there yet.

Not sure why hes so keen to ban porn though, personally if I was him and I knew that I was inevitably going to be bounced to the back bench after f***ing up the two big government tech plans (this and fttn), I'd want something to do in question time.

He's clearly not afraid of pulling his pud in front of the Australian public.

You know some of the problem here nf is probably that a huge percentage of the people telling him that the plan is bulls*** and won't work are common people many of them young.

Polies don't like having the short comings of there glorious plans being trashed by the plebs. Sadly I am pegging this guy as the type that'll dig his heals in and not budge and for no other reason than his fragile little ego might be at steak.

One of the top trading area for pedos is emule and kazaa. Thats the P2P they mean. BitTorrent isn't the largest P2P network around. Its just the most efficient per file.

You know some of the problem here nf is probably that a huge percentage of the people telling him that the plan is bulls*** and won't work are common people many of them young.

This made me laugh.

Hard.

lol I knew you'd spot that phooks but trust me young doesn't always equate to school age. Believe me once you hit 30+ you'll certainly get where I am coming from.

Sadly I am pegging this guy as the type that'll dig his heals in and not budge and for no other reason than his fragile little ego might be at steak.

Nah, I reckon its just labor policy to be completely blind the obvious. They sure suck, that Labor lot. What do you reckon?

nice try ...nf lol

p2p is an acronym for paedophile 2 paedophile

yet another failed labor policy. let's hope more of them get quashed.

i wept tears of joy.

yet another failed labor policy. let's hope more of them get quashed.

+1

It's only gone until the next election. Remember that you die-hard Labor voters. They will push it through once they get a better grip on the senate.

Oh you mean like the Libs did with the GST and work choices both of which had far greater ramifications for the entire nation than some internet filter.

You knwo I really hate the fact that Labor pushed that bulls*** just as much as everyone else here. f*** it pisses me off enough that I would seriously reconsider my vote. I am sick to death of successive governments treating the public like idiots whom are incapable of making choices of their own.

However for people to hold this up as some kind of indication of labors flaws is utterly stupid when compared to s*** the libs threw at us. I mean for f*** sake when Howard claimed a mandate to bring in the GST he didn't even have 50% of the f***ing primary vote (f*** preferences). Not to mention the fact that there was f***ing zero mention of them wanting to chase bring in the GST in the prior election campaign.

Howard was and always will be a two faced back stabbing lying rodent. ffs the guy cut the vast majority of his own party out of the loop on almost all major decisions in his last term. He was a smug arrogant f***ing dictator that treated his own party with total contempt not to mention the right royal f*** in the ass he gave to the number 2 man in the party. If he couldn't bulls*** his way to something he simply went the long way round and didn't give a f*** about anyone or anything other than his grand view.

yeah and labor reregulating the workplace relations laws in this time of recession is a stroke of genius.


last edited by infi at 23:26:55 26/Feb/09

GST doesn't bother me and Work Choices got me an extra 5k a year, failing to see the bad here. I think we did need a bit of a shake up (i.e. Not Howard again) but Rudd wasn't the better (or less evil) choice.

I'm glad that common sense has prevailed here, lets hope it continues for the next 3 years.

nothing says regulated workplace laws like aussies keeping their jobs

Oh you mean like the Libs did with the GST and work choices both of which had far greater ramifications for the entire nation than some internet filter.

by greater you mean good, i'm guessing?

I mean for f*** sake when Howard claimed a mandate to bring in the GST he didn't even have 50% of the f***ing primary vote (f*** preferences).

uhhh...

Yeah I wonder what you'd say if they didn't follow up on their promise to scrap work choices infi? This a case of damn if they do damn if they don't and no matter what they do infi will always be there flying that all to familiar lib flag.

I am honestly sorry for those people that might of been able to squeeze a buck or two out the the work choices thing. But there would of been a s*** load of people in this country getting right royally f***ed in ass.

you are from NZ aren't you nf?

Yeah I wonder what you'd say if they didn't follow up on their promise to scrap work choices infi?

I would honestly be happy and grateful they have thought of the workers. Every worker should have the right to bargain directly with their employer. Unwinding Workchoices makes this illegal.

Actually infi it doesn't so thats bulls***. Awa's have been around in one form or another for f***ing years, usre the name might change but they still exist. As far as bargaining directly with your employer goes I can see that never being exploited ... yeah right. The vast majority of people in the country are in no position to bargain with companies that pretty well hold all the cards. The old if you don't like it you know where the door is or the reclassification of job roles would of f***ed over a huge portion of the work force.

Now infi if people had in the past had enough experience with their employers doing the right thing by them don't you think the average Joe would of welcomed work choices with open arms? Labor wouldn't of been able to run a campaign based on removing it because people wouldn't of backed them.

Why did labor get in on that platform? Because people know they can't trust big business. They are well aware of the fact that no matter what laws you have to protect people it doesn't stop companies from trying to f*** you. The last thing people want is to give companies is a set of rules that allow them to single you out and put pressure on you. People are generally ill equiped to deal with that and know damn well they make for easy pickings for unscrupulous management and companies.

I am all for companies and employees working together but there absolutely has to be a level of trust between them and that simple doesn't exist.

you are from NZ aren't you nf?

you are from parents who are cousins aren't you taipan?

I mean for f*** sake when Howard claimed a mandate to bring in the GST he didn't even have 50% of the f***ing primary vote (f*** preferences)

this is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted (easily top 10).

The ALP platform which is called Forward with Fairness makes AWAs illegal for workers under $100k. All existing workplace agreements expire on 31 December 2009. source

What you nor the Labor government fail to realise is that all those people working in small businesses all over Australia who cannot get a job under award conditions because the award prices them out of the market just strike private informal deals effectively making the employer a criminal.

It's typical head in the sand policy that is directed to the 25% of the workforce that is unionised.

Alcopop Tax is Dead Man Walking too.

I hope Krudd calls a Double Dissolution so we can Vote that lying Rodent out of Office. (at least Vote Labour out of the Senate.)

nf if you are going to say something is the dumbest thing you have seen or what ever at least have the nuts to try and explain why.

Now I said Howard claimed a mandate to bring in the GST (which he did claim though totally inaccurate) based on winning the prior election. Now he didn't he have a clear mandate given he only scored approximately 40% of all primary votes and 48-49% of the two-party preferred vote. That is not a f***ing mandate and there is one other really f***ing good reason why.... he had previously stated that the "GST would never become part of Liberal Party policy". Now thats a f***ing back flip of mamoth proportions. He ran a campaign based on the GST being dead and burried then claims a mandate... you have got to be f***ing kidding. He knew damn well going into that election had he ran with the GST he would of been f***ing crushed.

Now at the same time as him saying he has a mandate to bring it in every single poll across the country showed no less than 55% of Australians totally opposed to it. Yet he had a mandate... the guy is a f***ing weazel and will do what ever it takes lying cheating and shafting his party members to ensure his will be done.


last edited by Taipan at 01:35:23 27/Feb/09

parties don't get win elections by getting the majority of the primary vote, they don't get win by getting the majority of the 2-party prefered vote. they win individual seats based on the primary vote and preferences in that seat. they won the clear majority of the seats (only 3 less than rudd did in fact).

you're a moron.

regardless the gst didn't get through on mandate, it went through with deals with the minor parties, labor voted against it. so i don't even know what your point is, and i'm not even sure you do either.

so when is Rudd going to roll back the GST? reinstall the fantastic wholesae tax system.

do people even realise what is was like beforehand?

governments treating the public like idiots whom are incapable of making choices of their own

Generally speaking the public gets treated this way because a vast number ARE incapable. Regardless, the internet filter was still a pandering & stupid idea.

do people even realise what is was like beforehand?

Wouldn't have a fking clue. Was too young when GST was introduced. I remember it being introduced but didn't have much idea what it was about.

What was this "wholesale tax system" like?

Just think of wholesalers i.e. not retailers being a small fleet of tax collectors for the ATO. The only difference being that there were about 12 different rates of wholesale tax applied to different items and the total revenue base was a fraction of what the GST generates.

Secondly, there was no blanket provision for all wholsesale taxes to go to the State so they had to go to the Commonwealth every year cap in hand beggin for once off grants that were tied to the Commonwealth's political agenda.

After the GST there was one rate for everone and the States had a guaranteed source of revenue, no strings attached.

I would honestly be happy and grateful they have thought of the workers. Every worker should have the right to bargain directly with their employer. Unwinding Workchoices makes this illegal.

So the millions of people on common law contracts better hurry thr f*** up and join a union infi?

Also I'm a big fan of the GST. They need to apply the same ideology to income tax imo, the current system of scales and levies and claims is stupidly complicated.

last edited by Hogfather at 11:30:16 27/Feb/09

So the millions of people on common law contracts better hurry thr f*** up and join a union infi?

Nope, the millions of people on common law contracts are award free and can do whatever the hell they want. It's just a shame the whole system isn't like that.

Well becuase of Howards work choices, instead of 11 weeks redundancy (7 weeks redundancy + 3 weeks notice) I only got the 3 weeks notice becuase redundancy isnt a protected entitlement.

Viper makes a stricking point here. Aren't they being removed because the majority of workers were worse off!? Sounds like something you would want to change quick smart.

so when is Rudd going to roll back the GST? reinstall the fantastic wholesae tax system.

do people even realise what is was like beforehand?

I don't think his point is about GST, rather how Howard weazled it in, among many other weazling tactics he used.

The way the MPAA are ramping up attacks on ISPs in Australia, I don't think it will matter whether the Govt. puts in a filter or not, we will still end up with one.

Just think of wholesalers i.e. not retailers being a small fleet of tax collectors for the ATO. The only difference being that there were about 12 different rates of wholesale tax applied to different items and the total revenue base was a fraction of what the GST generates.

So just think about paying less tax?

Seriously though I think the GST system is ok, I think we get taxed way too f***ing much though. Sales tax should be removed, period. Environmental taxes are retarded, as is that luxury item tax. Excises taxes also need to be looked at and these arbitrary social taxes like the alchopop taxes are an insult.

I realise we are one of the biggest countries with smallest population and being taxed out the arse is almost expected but it's a bitter pill to swallow when the Govt. is hemorrhaging money carelessly.

A worker is not worse off because their conditions have been reduced. Why are employees the only ones who should never lose?

Does anyone complain when the farmer's wheat or beef price declines? or when the courier driver's per kilometer rate goes down even when fuel prices are going up? That is his or her "wage".

Worker's are worth what they are worth. If employers are forced to pay them more than they are worth, this will simply result in unemployment and stunted economic growth as the employer struggles to do the extra work him or herself.

Some interesting GST facts, as some of you seem to be a bit foggy of memory.

The idea for a broad-based consumption tax was first proposed by then federal treasurer Paul Keating at the 1985 Tax Summit but was dropped at the behest of then Labor Prime Minister Bob Hawke after pressure from the ACTU, welfare groups and business, which did not like its association with proposals for capital gains and fringe benefits taxes.

So it was Keating first...

The idea was refloated in 1991 by the opposition Liberal-National Coalition, and was the centrepiece of the opposition's Fightback, platform at the 1993 election, when Keating was Prime Minister. The opposition had difficulty explaining the policy, as illustrated in leader John Hewson's Birthday Cake Interview, and Keating's campaign exploited public distrust of the GST. The GST was seen as the main reason for the opposition's surprise election loss of the 'unloseable election' in 1993.

And then he hated it. The origninal GST flip-flop was in fact Keating's.

In the lead-up to the 1998 election, Howard proposed a GST that would replace all sales taxes, as well as applying to all goods and services. The Howard Government suffered a 4.61 percent two party preferred swing against the coalition, gaining 49.02 percent of the vote, but retained a parliamentary majority of seats in the lower house, describing the victory as a "mandate for the GST".

The reason that Howard claimed a mandate is that they won the 98 election with the GST as a policy platform. While they suffered a swing against them, they did form a new Government and the electorate had a say.

During the 2001 election campaign, Labor made a 'GST rollback' a centrepiece of its election platform. Labor attempted to reprise the effects of the birthday cake interview by deriding the application of GST to cooked and uncooked chickens, but failed to ignite public response to the limited scope of the rollbacks[4] applying only to gas and electricity bills. Labor lost the election, effectively ending all serious opposition to the GST.

Source: Wikipedia.
Various bold emphasis mine.

so yeah, back on the internet filter topic, considering there was so much rage about it, there's a severe lack of rejoicing now that it's not going ahead

or is this just another one of nick xylophone's blockades to get his own way and when he does he will say ok to it just like the $900 krudd special

I don't think you can pull that s*** too often and get away with it.

Anyway, the money pit he voted down he was careful to point out that he could be negotiated with. He seems to think this thing is stupid.

and i'm hoping that's the difference. Hopefully he doesn't want something for himself out of it, hopefully he's right and think's the thing is just plain stupid and never looks back.

EFA commentary on the Xenophon thing:

Asher Moses reports that “The Government’s plan to introduce mandatory internet censorship has effectively been scuttled, following an independent senator’s decision to join the Greens and Opposition in blocking any legislation required to get the scheme started.”

This news has set the blogosphere and twitter alight with celebration. Unfortunately, that may all be a bit premature.

While it is true that a mandatory filtering proposal is likely to require legislation to implement (especially without the support of the Internet Industry Association and a voluntary code of conduct), it is not clear that any future legislation is dead in the water just yet.

Anything Xylophone swings the balance with I am nervous. Seems that guy is a bit shaky in his stance on anything, and could be toppled quite easily with some clever resource allocations (read: bribes).

**EDIT** Also, from the SMH article today:

ACMA's secret blacklist, which will form the basis of the mandatory censorship regime, contains 1370 sites, only 674 of which relate to depictions of children under 18. A significant portion - 506 sites - would be classified R18+ and X18+, which is legal to view but would be blocked for everyone under the proposal.

Domain's have to be registered. If they're black-listed then they know who's doing this. It seems pretty B&W to me. Where is the failure? International Law?

A worker is not worse off because their conditions have been reduced. Why are employees the only ones who should never lose?

An employer deosn't lose if we are working for them? Everyone has their price, if they can't afford someone of a very high standard than too bad, they have to employ a lower grade person.

I dont understand why they dont send police to arrest the owners of these child Porn sites. They obviously have the site name and the IP address.

How hard is it to find where its hosted and by whom ?

I dont understand why they dont send police to arrest the owners of these child Porn sites. They obviously have the site name and the IP address.

How hard is it to find where its hosted and by whom ?

its not hard - there are very very few, child porn web sites. That's part of the objection to the filter - child porn isn't traded via HTTP except in rare circumstances.

its not hard - there are very very few, child porn web sites. That's part of the objection to the filter - child porn isn't traded via HTTP except in rare circumstances.

So what are the 674 sites relating to depictions of children under 18 then?

And great, the ACMA has a "secret blacklist" - but what do they actually use it for now??? They aren't filtering, so what are they doing with it? Just keeping it in storage for a rainy day?

yeah infi aparently management suffer pretty bad.

Pacific Brands chief executive Sue Morphet was paid $1.86 million last year, her first year in the job, compared to $685,775 in 2007 when she was the company's group general manager of underwear and hosiery.

Not a bad effort for a company that just slammed the door on 1,850 workers. As I said before I am 100% for employees and employers working together to improve a company in every way imaginable. But for that to happen there needs to be a good/high level of trust between the parties however that s*** I just quoted does nothing to promote trust and loyalty between those two groups.

Coming from an Army background I would dearly love to have a boss who's loyalty to me was unquestionable. For me personally there is no better position for a worker to be in than know your boss has your back and your best interests in mind. I would damn near give my left arm to work for someone who's loyalty was to his/her workers and not to their own f***ing bank balance. I have a f*** load of loyalty to give as yet though I am sad to say I haven't met a management body worthy of it. To be quite frank it's something I have always been very disappointed about, it's really frigging sad because I know for a fact that many aussie workers feel the same way and not being able to trust your bosses is f***ing depressing as hell.

So what are the 674 sites relating to depictions of children under 18 then?

this is one of them http://www.billhenson.net.au/