Linky

So who is with iinet? If iinet wins the case, the prosecuting bodies have the ability to go after individual users.

Is anyone scared? Some people might be turning off the tap on their BT usage, that's for sure.

Discuss.

I would be kinda worried, If I had TB's of "Linux iso's" and would be looking into ways of moving it all elsewhere...

Should i move ISP's?

commonsense says iinet will win:

so often justice and commonsense are in conflict

Should i move ISP's?

Basically this case should have been rejected on grounds that the internet service providers are not their to police it's users and infringement notices need to provide the necessary evidence to have the ISP forward them on to their user. An ISP cannot be held accountable for the actions of someone they don't control and are not obligated to as they are providing a service and what that person does with that service is their responsibility.

just setup an AP on your home network with 64bit wep encryption and limit its bandwidth to 5k/s

that way when they raid you and find out you have no 'Linux ISOs' you can just say they probably hacked your wep and downloaded it all

^ lol thats what i have
64-bit wep cos i know there's absolutely no-one who lives near me that could possibly even entertain the idea that wep is crackable let alone tell you what wep stands for
except mines not limited.
and anyway, i have a little look every now and then to see what dhcp leases have been given out, and its only ever for my PCs, my wife's laptop and the wii...
and perhaps its time to move my linux isos to my 'DR site'

last edited by MrHardware at 12:48:08 18/Feb/09

Ha, yer I run WPA2 atm, but even if I dropped it down to WEP there is no one near me that would have the first clue of cracking it. But if all my 'Linux iso's' are gone, I could claim I was hacked. It's a long shot tho.

Anyone who's got half a clue about even WPA2 can get through it anyway. Thanks to physics accelerators and nVidia GPGPUs+CUDA, 6 hours of data collection yields about 20 seconds to crack any WPA2 passphrase :D

WEP takes a little longer (yes, I know that sounds backwards).

WEP takes a little longer (yes, I know that sounds backwards).

I thought the FBI had WEP cracking down to under a minute ?

So who is with iinet? If iinet wins the case, the prosecuting bodies have the ability to go after individual users.

I said that in the other thread.
If youve been with iinet and they are found "guilty" then it would be reasonable to assume that the companies would want to investigate all users.

The thing is it would be a mammoth task and so what might happen is that say all users on the largest DL quotas would be the easiest to target.
Better chance of getting a Hit.

Actually, if iinet lose these clowns might come after all ISPs.

Actually, if iinet lose these clowns might come after all ISPs.

Probably.

Or they might just try to cut a deal with all the ISPs, give us a "tax" for users over a certain quota and we'll promise not to harass your business. Using this case as the stick.

So who is with iinet? If iinet wins the case, the prosecuting bodies have the ability to go after individual users.

You mean loses the case, right?

win or lose they're going to keep on coming after file sharers, they've been at it for nearly a decade now; why would this stop them?

They just should do it the normal way, request the info for the owner of the IP address used to download each file, prosecute individually
by going after iinet they're just being lazy, they want iinet to be the bad guys and take us offline etc

Sorry yer, if they win, then the movie people will come after indiviuuals.

A loss for the movie industry could leave it no choice but to go after individual downloaders, as has occurred in the US. However, if iiNet loses, all ISPs could be forced to disconnect customers identified by the movie studios as illegal downloaders.

The first thing will happen if iinet lose is there will be a collapse in their user base. People will leave enmasse because they will worry if they will be "arrested."

i personally wouldn't reconnect with iinet on my current plan if they lost, which would be a shame
they've been a great isp to me over the years and i get mad sync speedz

I'd just cut back to a 20gb a month plan and do my downloading at work or on someone elses insecure network

How many iinet users here would leave if they lost ??

any chance of a Poll ?

yeah do a poll
if there's any chance i'm with an isp that's going to ream me/assist in reaming me i'll be jumping ship quick smart

AusGamers asks and the Pinks provides. Results in a week or less.

Surely they would go after the heavy users and uploaders first? Most of the population has something illegal on the home computer. I don't though..

yer, me either:

and if i were to get illegal stuff, i would use only private trackers, so i should be all good!

hopefully the bigger companies fight it off and wont let authorities have access to data

At the end of the day they'll probably go after whoever takes their fancy. I'm sure everyone remembers the RIAA sue clueless parents whose 10 year olds had downloaded a bunch of music albums. Most of those people settled by handing over $5k-$10k. It's not sustainable for them to keep doing that, but I'm sure they would for a while to try scare others from doing it. It only takes a few law suits to scare away most casual downloaders.

I thought the FBI had WEP cracking down to under a minute ?

Script kiddies on the internet can do it in under 2 minutes. Last I heard the people upstairs in the cryptology lab can crack WEP before they put their coffee down. Not that they bother doing it very often except to impress their ignorant friends.

Anyone who's got half a clue about even WPA2 can get through it anyway. Thanks to physics accelerators and nVidia GPGPUs+CUDA, 6 hours of data collection yields about 20 seconds to crack any WPA2 passphrase :D

WEP takes a little longer (yes, I know that sounds backwards).

How can WPA/2 take less time than WEP when WEP can be cracked in 30 seconds? I read they could get some info but not the whole passphrase for WPA/2.. so it's not that I don't believe you..it's just that, I don't believe you. Please post relative links to such information kthx :D

nah WPA takes longer. you have to capture re-auth packets (i think) from a genuine authorized client, then you have to brute force it to get the key. easy if the key is "goat" or something, you can just use a dictionary attack, but not if its a randomly generated alpha numeric.

WPA you only need 1 re-auth packet though, WEP you need a bunch (i think thousands). with an rarely active client you might have to wait just as long for WEP as you would for WPA to get cracking.

at the end of the day though, WEP is piss easy to crack.

36 responses to the poll so far.

I know it's fun but try not to vote twice - this isn't Australian Idol, there is no winner.

Oh, hang on. There is no winner on Australian Idol either. Scratch that logic.

i voted three times

i voted three times

Once for each personality is ok, but for everyone else... :-P

and if i were to get illegal stuff, i would use only private trackers, so i should be all good!

I don't think it matters what tracker you were using, they were monitoring iinet ip's that were downloading torrents using bittorrent????

im trusting what parabol said, he seems smart(ish)

Private torrents: a movie studio IP harvester will need an invite (these are rare), it will need to maintain access (need to actively upload or else banned), plus usually limited to a max number of torrents initially so they can't harvest that much. All of these combined make it very hard for them to get in and do much damage.

Well, since it's relevent, someone I know received an ESA notice recently. For anyone who's interested and hasn't seen one before, here it is in full:

> esa-no-reply@copyright-compliance.com Posted on: 05 Nov 2008 01:48 AM
> ================================================================
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
> Copyright Regulations 1969
> NOTICE OF CLAIMED INFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHT BY COPYRIGHT OWNER OR AGENT -
> STORAGE, CACHING, OR REFERRAL TO INFRINGING COPYRIGHT MATERIAL
> 4 Nov 2008
> ESA Reference Number: ----------
> TO ComCen Pty Ltd:
> 1. I, on behalf of the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), issue this notice for the purposes of item 1, condition 3 of item 3, and condition 3 of item 4 of the table in subsection 116AH(1) of the Copyright Act 1968 and regulation 20I of the Copyright Regulations 1969.
> 2. ESA is the agent of the owner of the copyright in the copyright material specified in the below Schedule (i.e., game product that is protected by Australian intellectual property law), that is being infringed by material residing on your system or network, cached on your system or network, or referred or linked to by your system or network.
> 3. I believe, in good faith, that the storage, caching, linking, or referral of/to the infringing copyright material on your system or network is not authorised by the copyright owner or a licensee of the copyright owner, or the Copyright Act 1968, and is therefore an infringement of the copyright in that material.
> 4. I have taken reasonable steps to ensure that the information and statements in this notice are accurate.
>
> NAME OF AGENT OF OWNER: Entertainment Software Association
> ADDRESS: 575 7th Street, NW, Suite 300, Washington, DC 20004 USA
>
> Intellectual Property Enforcement
> Entertainment Software Association
> (Agent of owner)
> TELEPHONE NUMBER: (1) 202-223-2400
> FAX NUMBER: (1) 202 223 2401
> E-MAIL ADDRESS: mailto:esa@copyright-compliance.com?subject=RE%3A%20Notice%20ID%3A%20182%2D65615487%20ESA%20Australia%20Notice
>
> SCHEDULE
> DESCRIPTION OF COPYRIGHT MATERIAL: Based on the information at its disposal on the 4 Nov 2008 , ESA has a good faith belief that xxxxx infringes the rights of one or more ESA members by offering for sale or download unauthorized copies of game products protected by copyright. The copyrighted works that have been infringed include but are not limited to:
>
> Title: Dead Space
> Infringement Source: BitTorrent
> Infringement Timestamp: 4 Nov 2008
> Infringement Last Documented: 4 Nov 2008
> Infringer Username:
> Infringing Filename: Dead.Space.PC.CLONEDVD
> Infringing Filesize: 7975608589
> Infringer IP Address: xxxxxxxx
> Infringer DNS Name:
> Infringer Port ID: 40808
> Infringing URL: http://bt1.cdres.cn:12345/announce
>
>
> LOCATION OF COPYRIGHT MATERIAL RESIDING ON CARRIAGE SERVICE PROVIDER'S SYSTEM: The unauthorized copies of such game product(s) appears on or is made available through xxxxx. Those items are listed and/or identified thereon by their titles or variations thereof, game-related listings/references/descriptions, or depictions of game-related artwork. Such copies, titles, game-related listings/references/descriptions, and depictions are hereinafter referred to as "Infringing Material."
>
> ACTION REQUESTED: In light of the infringing material described herein, ESA hereby requests ComCen Pty Ltd to immediately do the following:
>
> 1. Notify the account holder of the Infringing Material.
> 2. Remove, or disable access to, the Infringing Material detailed above.
> 3. Take appropriate action against the account holder under your Abuse
> Policy/Terms of Service Agreement, including termination of a repeat offender.
> - ---Start ACNS XML
>
>
>
>
>
> Open
>
>
> Entertainment Software Association
> Anti-Piracy Enforcement, Intellectual Property Enforcement Manager
>

575 7th Street, NW Suite 300, Washington, D. C. 20004 United States of America

> 1(202) 223-2400,1(202) 223-2401
> esa@copyright-compliance.com
>
>
> ComCen Pty Ltd
>

> abuse@comcen.com.au
>
>
> 2008-11-04T14:40:09.000Z
> xxxx
> 40808
>
> BitTorrent
>
> 1
> No
>
>
>
> iinet VS movie studiosDead Space
> Dead.Space.PC.CLONEDVD
> 7975608589
> http://bt1.cdres.cn:12345/announce
>
>
>
> - ---End ACNS XML

>

As you can see the notice alleges infringement of copyright based only on access to a tracker in China and the name of a file being shared.

That person presumably isn't australian, pinky?

Linky

So who is with iinet? If iinet wins the case, the prosecuting bodies have the ability to go after individual users.

Is anyone scared? I think I might be turning off the tap on my BT usage, that's for sure.

Discuss.

FYI, I am kinda worried, I have TB's of "Linux iso's" looking into ways of moving it all elsewhere...

If you're worried, my advice is not to post on public websites announcing that you're a copyright-infringing BT user

That is sound advice.

So what's the penalty for this?

What about people that have no money and no job (like myself)? Surely they can't jail people for a a bunch of movies and a tv shows.

last edited by CHUB at 13:39:10 19/Feb/09

If movie studios spent more money making their movies good so people would prefer to go see them at the movies/own the dvd, instead of chasing <1% of population who pirate movies, they would probably find themselves making more farking monies!

That's why I can't see them taking people to court that have $0 and no assets.

Corporations have one goal, making money. Unless ass f***ing poor people somehow reduces piracy and makes people that would have pirated the material go spend $30 on a s***ty CD, $20 to watch cinema ads and deal with douches or wait 18 months for the TV show to air in our country... I don't see it happening.

They don't want to "prove a point", they don't have principles or morals, they want money... bottom line.

It seems they're just trying to seek compensation from iinet. If they win, they wouldn't waste the money going after individual users. No point going after me, I have no money, worst case scenario throw me into jail but I won't be going to the movies or buying any dvds in there now will I

That's why I can't see them taking people to court that have $0 and no assets.

Your reason as to why you're safe, eh chub?

Your reason as to why you're safe, eh chub?

I got nothing, not even my car is in my name.

If they were so inclined (and if I was downloading pirated material in the first place), any money they would try and get would come directly from Centrelink :)

Last I heard, lawyers are pretty f***ing pricey.

Now if they are going to spend money purely to JAIL people, then people should start putting on their brown jocks.

last edited by CHUB at 14:13:08 19/Feb/09

you know, they could make you pay whatever you can afford for the rest of your life ..

like a weekly payment of $50 and if you dont pay up every week they can come in and take more action against you
keep violating a court order and you will end up in gaol, but not for the initial reason - because you violated a judges orders

No they couldn't get $50 a week.

They could get between $10 - $20 a fortnight and that would come from Centrelink.

No skin off my nose.

$520/year for the rest of your life ..

if you ever (god forbid) got a real job or wanted to buy a house etc, they'd take even more

its not illegal until you get caught so the idea here would be to not get caught..

Indeed, I was just using my poorbo lifestyle as an example.

$520 would get eaten up in 1 court appearance by even the lowest/cheapest lawyer you can find and 50x more just in the preperation to prosecute.

I just don't see them making ANY money from that even over 25 years.

I understand them fighting software piracy, but I don't understand them fighting people downloading shows which have already aired. I doubt they would give a s*** if Joe Blow bought a PVR and started recording shows, skipping the ads, etc. But why would they care if you downloaded it instead...the online offerings aren't feasible at the moment... you would think they would truly embrace the Internet medium and strike some kind of deal with ISP's to make the shows free quota. I'm sure it wouldn't be easy, but surely it's possible.

My question is, if you are an Australian, using a US proxy, going onto Hulu and streaming (ie:downloading) Heroes for example, are you pirating? Thats what I do, I can't see how using a US proxy is illegal?

It's not pirating but you are probably breaking some policy that Hulu has which could potentially mean a lawsuit against you.

Yes you're pirating, it has nothing to do with the route by which the data is transferred to you - although you're more likely to get away with it!

I think simul needs to explain fully how he connects to Hulu before we can form a legal opinion.

To get hulu working:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/01/06/accessing-hulu-pandora-and-other-sites-from-outside-of-the-united-states/

If you have a USA VPS/ded server you can just put a VPN on there, and stream through that. Alternatively there are programs for free US proxies for mac and (I think) windows.

If it is illegal, a further question would mean that its also illegal for an Australian to download a tv show/movie using a USA iTunes account? I have no issues with paying for TV shows off something like iTunes or using ad-supported stuff, I just don't like being 2 series behind the states, and then missing an ep on TV and not being able to watch it when I want to cause of region bulls***.

Yes you're pirating, it has nothing to do with the route by which the data is transferred to you - although you're more likely to get away with it!

Hulu is a streaming service for free ad-suported on-demand TV shows which is fully supported by the TV content creators, so the only thing possibly illegal about it is is the route to do it (its only officially available to people inside the US). The content itself is 100% legal, its only because we are not in the states.

Shouldnt be scared. Just use Peerguardian or IP blocklist to avoid MPAA - Majorly Paranoid American Assassins. They'll sue anyone watching a movie. Seriously though, just ignore any of this unless you receive an email; in which case - pack up, book a flight, get on the flight and watch the news from Mexico.

Shouldnt be scared. Just use Peerguardian or IP blocklist to avoid MPAA - Majorly Paranoid American Assassins. They'll sue anyone watching a movie. Seriously though, just ignore any of this unless you receive an email; in which case - pack up, book a flight, get on the flight and watch the news from Mexico.

Yeah, I am just curious whether there is a legal way to do the same thing. Paying a few dollars for a high quality version and a fast download is much better than dealing with BT or forking out for newsgroup accounts. Most of the content *is* available legally, just not in Australia without doing workarounds.

Shouldnt be scared. Just use Peerguardian or IP blocklist to avoid MPAA - Majorly Paranoid American Assassins.

Yeah...PG is a really effective tool IMO PG is nothing more than a placebo effect. What is to stop companies installing residential ADSL plans to bypass the block lists?

That person presumably isn't australian, pinky?

The person is Australian and the person was using PeerGuardian 2 (the ISP is Comcen as you can see in the notice - consistently a top 10 ISP on Whirlpool).

The notice is particularly flaky. I'm sure there are several 'levels' of these notices. This one alleges that the user was pirating based on a filename (how reliable is that, for one?) and access to a tracker (which in legal terms means what? There is no precedent).

I also talked to someone who works at an ISP and they told me that with these ESA notices it's common practice not to forward them on, which means you don't know if you have been sent one or not. You can imagine, it's reasonable effort to look at logs to see which dynamic IP was assigned to which user at the time of the alleged infringement and then forward the notice to that user.

What is to stop companies installing residential ADSL plans to bypass the block lists?

For the same two reasons that they aren't actively fighting piracy:

1. It's not their job to
2. The companies that did implement this would lose customers instantly and have to shut down their business

the online offerings aren't feasible at the moment...

I think it would cost too much to support at the moment. The access network isn't up to scratch - too many flaky lines, I think HD is something like 6M a channel (depending on the encoding). A SLA is hard to meet when the physical line can't get there. Alot of the supporting infrastructure is already there.. those 802.1x modems are deployed for a reason.

Aaaand we're back to FTT*/NBN.. precisely nowhere. Perhaps it's poetic justice, this suit?

Aaaand we're back to FTT*/NBN..

Woe is me...why did people vote in labor. They're going to cock this whole thing up.

ive got issues with pg too:

does it actually do anything?

does it actually do anything?

Under Vista 32 I suspect not. They say they added IPV6 now, but I have my suspicions because under Vista 32 I am getting no logged blocked IPs.

And I think there are no other options: Protowall doesn't work under Vista I believe.

U2 Album leaked online

In January last year, U2's longtime manager, Paul McGuinness, lashed out at music pirates at an industry conference.

He slammed internet service providers, saying they had "enjoyed a bonanza" in the last few years by accepting fees from illegal downloaders while doing nothing to prevent them from stealing music.

He joined the chorus of music industry players calling on ISPs to disconnect users who have been caught obtaining music illegally.

"Their snouts have been at our trough feeding free for too long," said McGuinness.

Hahaha, is he seriously called McGuinness?

Block lists don't work (which is all PG uses). If people don't think the govt filters will work why do they believe in PG?

PG is not going to save you from your crappy public trackers.

Poll results:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5030/46503710.jpg

Hulu is a streaming service for free ad-suported on-demand TV shows which is fully supported by the TV content creators, so the only thing possibly illegal about it is is the route to do it (its only officially available to people inside the US). The content itself is 100% legal, its only because we are not in the states.

is it illegal for americans to pick up canadian tv signals and vice versa?

Chubbles:

If you don't have the cash to pay the fine, you go to gaol.
Once you have a record of that nature, obtaining a decent job can become quite a lot more difficult after the fact, regardless of what you were incarcerated for. Not to mention the loss of time suffered and the actual experience itself.

Is 90 minutes of a crap movie usually in s***e quality, worth the $20 you pay at Birch to see it in at least a decent format, worth a couple of years of your life.

I look forward to the day when I can download HiDef content movies even if only to watch once for X amount.
I honestly can't recall the last time even attempted to download a movie.

You know, I've only ever had ONE job do a background check on me (I don't have a criminal history anywho)
I've worked for Telstra/HP etc and they don't do police checks - at least the ones which require your say-so