Bit of a s***fight going on at work between staff and management - there's a back door into the building which shaves about 5 minutes each way off getting into the office, but it can only be opened from inside. People have been jamming the door open and management are claiming that this is a fire risk.

I'll note that this is a vestibule door, about 2m before it is a prox-card locked door to the outside, so security is not the issue here.

The outside door is marked "Fire door - do not obstruct, do not keep open". I believe these are used to help contain a fire/smoke to within the building and not allow it to spread or stop feeding it oxygen I dunno. The one inside is simply marked "fire exit - do not obstruct". No warnings about not keeping it open.

Thoughts?

"Fire door - do not obstruct, do not keep open"

Well I'd say they put it there for a good reason whatever that maybe. Also if you f*** around with the fire safety doors etc and fire happened and someone get hurt, you can bet your arse your insurance won't cover it and your company will be liable for damages both personal and property.

This is why your management said not to use it, to cover their arses (fair enough too). It's only 5 minutes tell the staff don't be so f***ing lazy.

Maybe they should equip the door with alarm so when it gets open it goes off.

what opec said

fire doors are to be kept shut to stop the spread of the fire. law will say they have to be closed. if s*** happens insurance will own your ass.

Maybe they should equip the door with alarm so when it gets open it goes off.

not needed. have a work policy, if you get caught using it x times, sack the lazy f***s.

last edited by mooby at 09:22:16 30/Dec/08

Walk the extra distance you lazy f***s.

Businesses can get fines for having obstructed doorways and s***, and they aren't small. The fire inspectors on this stuff can be retarded. While you may think placing a bit of cardboard in the door doesn't obstruct it, they could go "and the first person out the door in a fire opens it, cardboard drops on the ground, the second person slips on it, then everyone gets stuck and dies".

I bet all the employees won't be overly greatful, if the company gets fined, of having their pay reduced for their proportion of the fine. Especially those that don't use the door.

Why create s*** where there just doesn't have to be.

Clarification: There are two doors. One which is a "FIRE DOOR" the other is "FIRE EXIT". The door they're complaining about is the "FIRE EXIT". The fire door remains closed and unobstructed at all times. The fire door has the prox-card lock, the fire exit is the one which they're bitching about.

EDIT: And adding an additional 5 minutes on the start and end of the journey isn't an issue of laziness, when it takes 5 minutes to get to Toowong Village already, an extra 10 minutes really brings the effective lunch time to 10 minutes.

last edited by exo at 10:49:14 30/Dec/08

Then bring lunch. Efective lunch time, now 30 minutes. So it really is a case of laziness.

If its that much of a problem, why don't you get one person to go and buy all the take out orders, then only one person would take an extended lunch break while they finish eating.

Once again "Why create s*** where there just doesn't have to be." You are all just stirring the pot instead of finding solutions.

Set fire to the door.

Isn't it clear? The Fire Door is magical - made of fire, and able to be opened. You may however burn yourself. The Fire Exit is the route which an open flame should make its way towards when it wishes to create a towering inferno and kill everyone in the Fire Escape - also frequently mislabeled and incorrectly referred to, because it is to allow the fire out, not persons.

Set fire to the door.

That'll learn it!

Also, one hour lunch FTW

Do what we did at work, put a bloody card reader and strike on it like the other doors!

Problem solvered

I think you'll find it's illegal to jam a fire exit open and obviously it would be to jam it closed. See while you could agrue that if it's open people can still get out easily the door does need to close securely once everyone is out.

Now I don't know about you but if I am the last one to be leaving a burning biulding I really don't want to have to f*** around trying to close a jammed door.

Then bring lunch. Efective lunch time, now 30 minutes. So it really is a case of laziness.

I bet you make lots of friends at work remaining in the office to eat the lunch that your mum/wife made you while the other guys go and be social in the cafe. Sure, you might save a buck, but you will still be a loser.

I bet all the employees won't be overly greatful, if the company gets fined, of having their pay reduced for their proportion of the fine. Especially those that don't use the door.

Non-issue. This would be an illegal action and no management with any sense would risk docking pay in this fashion as a 'punishment'. Although, I do know of at least one retail workplace that docks pay when the till doesn't balance - so maybe their management would be stupid enough to do this, and the staff would be stupid enough not to report it.

I bet you make lots of friends at work remaining in the office to eat the lunch that your mum/wife made you while the other guys go and be social in the cafe. Sure, you might save a buck, but you will still be a loser.

Actually, quite a few people in the office bring in their lunch, and we sit around in the lunchroom and shoot the s***. Now if more of them brought in their lunch, then they would be able too also. Of course, you must have the most indepth conversations in a 20minute lunch anyway. And i'd say you could do a fair bit of socialising during the other 7.5 hours in the day. And of course, you don't have to ALWAYS bring lunch, or ALWAYS go out. I personally try to go out for lunch once a week, just to break up the routine.

Most places in the city wouldn't even be able to serve you your food within 20 minutes of sitting down anyway.

And i cook my own.

Non-issue. This would be an illegal action and no management with any sense would risk docking pay in this fashion as a 'punishment'. Although, I do know of at least one retail workplace that docks pay when the till doesn't balance - so maybe their management would be stupid enough to do this, and the staff would be stupid enough not to report it.

Yep, you're right. So why would any management argue the point? Hmmm, cop fines and get in lots of trouble VS, not paying fines and not getting in trouble. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM. The whole argument is just about laziness.

(6) If an exit door leading out of a building is not constructed so as to
permit it to swing open in the direction of egress, the occupier of the
building is to ensure that it is fixed in the fully open position at any time that
it affords a means of exit for a person within the building.

Tell management to f*** off. A fire exit door can be locked open if it opens inwards so why would it be different if it opens outwards? So long as it's not obstructed, the only thing here is if you've got people coming in and there's a fire they'll get in the way of people going out which is what they might be concerned about. A fire exit door isn't a fire door. Fire doors are usually heavy and made of steel or something that doesn't burn, exit doors are just marked as fire exit doors to provide people inside an easy way of seeing where they need to go to get out otherwise they might just end up in a closet or something if none of the doors are marked. They might also be slightly bigger than a regular door to allow more people to flow through.

want source? http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/SLS/1991/91SL187.pdf knock yourself out

Offences
19. A person must not—
(a) lock or otherwise interfere with a door that is a prescribed exit or
is situated in the path of travel to a prescribed exit, so that the door
is rendered wholly or partially incapable of being operated in
accordance with this regulation; or
(b) obstruct any doorway that is a prescribed exit or is situated in the
path of travel to a prescribed exit, so that the doorway is rendered
wholly or partially incapable of being used in the event of a fire.

Being jammed open doesn't prevent the door from opening and depending on what they use to jam it open may not obstruct the path of exit, unless they're jamming it open with boxes or a shopping trolley or something?

last edited by whoop at 17:33:12 30/Dec/08

pretty simply you don't wedge fire doors open or use them as access ways.. they're in place to save your life.. opening and closing doors that are meant to be opened 'once' isn't going to be great for the mechanism... Wedging stuff into the door frame (which is structurally different to a regular door frame) will have an effect on the doors effectiveness in the case of a fire..

Management make the s*** decisions... thats why they're management and you're not

also lol, the doors are meant to close after people run through them.. to you know.. keep the fire away from them... locking them open is kinda failing at that role hey

last edited by Boxhead at 17:44:20 30/Dec/08

Go out the normal door or find another job. Your superiors have said to not use it, so don't.

Whoop you understand what the word interfere means right? f***ing with fire exits in anyway shape or form is not on. There is a f***ing good reason for this and thats to prevent idiots from doing something they think is harmless and having it f*** up.

I have seen doors jammed open with all kinds of s***. I have also from time to time seen that s*** be moved in such a way that it actually jams the door shut after someone may of bumped it or what have you. Those doors are suposed to work perfectly at ALL times and to stop it doing so is wrong. There is no if's but's or maybe's in this area thats just how it is and just how it should be.

Typicaly this is just another one of those things where people say it'll never happen to me or in this case it'll never happen to this door. Then a week a month or 10 years later there is a story in the news of how a dozen office workers died of smoke inhalation while being trapped in a stairwell.

Bottom line ... never f*** with s*** thats there for your safety.

if its a "fire exit" and not a "fire door" (used to shield smoke/flame) wouldn't it be more effective left open, then closed?

i say approach your manager and explain this reasonably and if they still say no then you use the front door and consider them retarded. at least you tried :)

as an ex architectural estimator here is the difference...

a fire door is designed to control fire - fire doors are rated from 1 hour to 4 hours. you can leave these open however you would need to have them connected to door closers which activate in the event of an alarm - you can never let them be jammed open as the fire protection for the building is nullified and you could potentially cause people to die.

the fire brigade do checks of fire doors and will check things like making sure the backset of the lock is sufficient for the rating of the door... generally its 70mm but for 4 hour doors its usually 127mm. they will also check that the door can be egressed with a single push. so you cant have knobs as furniture.. it must be a lever or a push bar. sometimes if the lever breaks or ppl change s*** around and replace the hardware with unrated stuff the fire brigade will make you change it back. they will also make sure that in the case of an alarm the correct doors close.

smoke doors are usually only used in hospitals or in building with long corridors. they have sensors and are also hooked into the control system and usually only close as needed.

firedoors are used in walls where the WALL is required to be sound. all fire stair wells are fire structures and are 4 hour rated

the thing about firedoors are that ppl need to be able to evac the building in the event of a fire and the structure needs to stay sound for at least 1 hour to give ppl time to escape.

firedoors are not usually meant for every day in and out.. but there is nothing wrong with this.

in your case.. spring 100-500 bucks for an external handle and key access to the outside of the door - i would guess the door would have a closer already - and give ppl keys to come and go. problem solved.

dont ever jam the door open though...

just think back to that backpacker fire up north were ppl chained up the fire doors and 20 something people died.. the fire brigade came down hard after that - and i think good on em..

also that door your talking about is a firedoor.. not an emergency exit.. (although it can be used for this) if that firedoor is left open the entire stairwell/structural firewall is worth nothing.. thats why there is a sign saying DO NOT KEEP OPEN

put an external key on it.. job done

Nice posts super... good little bit of info.

if you want a closer you need one of these.. and they cost big bucks.. key lock is alot cheaper