Silent Hill: Homecoming is the latest game to be refused classification by the Australian Classifications Board this year, and if what you read on some other 'game' sites is true, this is a sure sign of the start of the apocalypse. On quite a few sites there is varied and increasingly inaccurate information on how this is some massive deprivation of your liberty; many wording their articles in such a manner that it leaves the reader feeling that this is some kind of common occurrence (as opposed to 4 times this year).

I thought I'd take two seconds to be the (increasingly) lone voice of differing opinion on this issue and offer a few reasons why I'm happy that an R18+ classification does NOT exist in Australia.

It's a shame that a few games each year have to bear the brunt of the current environment that game censorship in Australia finds itself - indeed those games are actually fine and I have no issues with them - but in every system there are victims, and I'd personally rather the victim in this saga be a publisher than a child.

My issue with ratings comes from spending the last eight years managing and maintaining game servers and large game communities. The company I work for has probably been doing this longer than anyone and has had more exposure to the Australian game community than anyone else in the country, no question. This gives us some insight to how censorship is applied in your average Australian household. So here's the scoop on that: Generally it isn't applied, at all - not one bit.

The number of kids we've had to try and moderate on our services has been massive. This is playing games that are either M, or in the case of Counter-strike, MA rated games where clearly the child is too young for the game. That is to say, where the person has admitted to being under the age of 15, and the game is MA (which makes the game illegal for the person in question to purchase in Australia). Does the parent care? Probably doesn't even notice. Does the Game Retailer care? Probably doesn't even occur to them.

So the problem becomes this - If you introduce an R18+ rating into an environment where you have zero policing of laws, an ambivalent parent, and an un-sympathetic retailer who just wants to make their money and who doesn't have any repercussions when breaking the law - what happens?

While I'm all for an open society where adults can buy what they want - children absolutely must, at all costs, be protected. They cannot be protected in the above scenario. An R18+ classification cannot exist until the method by which games are sold is corrected to allow the correct application of existing classifications.

Its worth adding here, that I know not everyone agrees with me, hell even in our office here we all don't agree, as such this is my view not that of everyone that works here.

Their parents should do the protecting, not the government.
The Government should set Guidelines to help parents make informed decisions.

Not that I really care about not having a R18 either. I just hate that people refuse to step up and take responsibility for their actions.

Just posting to say that this one's definitely an op-ed piece. I certainly don't share term's view on this one.

While I agree that these kids shouldn't be playing Counter-strike, the implementation of an R18+ rating isn't really relevant to that imo.

Term's problem seems to be more one of retail enforcement, more than censorship.

I'm all for an R18+ rating in Australia, because I think it would result in more games being correctly classified. No more of this MA15+ BS for games like GTA, kids under 18 _should not_ be playing GTA 4 and if we had have had an R18+ rating, I feel it would have been more likely to receive that classification.

in a perfect world your quite correct, but in the lala land you paint, we dont need police or any law, as all parents are responsible upstanding citizens of Australia (or subjects?) and dont steal, rob, kill, or do anything against the law, let alone pay attention to every single game their child buy's from a store regardless of if that games classification. While we're at it, lets allow childern to buy southern n coke too.

Silly opinion piece that confuses poor implementation of the law by those who have the responsibility to do so, with some kind of inherent flaw in an R18+ classification.

Also, you seem to have some kind of idealistic expectation that once a game has been "banned" in Australia, no one, 18+ or not, is not going to play it. Yeah man, imports and piracy don't exist.

dans right, I dont care about whats avaialble for sale, I have no issue with a R18+ classification at all, and anyone that does can foad as far as I'm conserned.

My issue is soley that of policing. Providing the protection of sale of that content cannot be applied, it should never be allowed. They absolutely have to fix how they police the sale of classified content before they make a R18+ classification available.

For me personally it isn't about stopping games from being banned but from having many games currently available made harder to obtain for kids to play. GTA 4 should not be MA+, I think anyone who has played the game would agree to that and I've seen 7 year olds play it. Anything that helps to deter parents from letting kids play games like that can only be a good thing. An R rating is a much bigger flag in the eyes of a lot of parents. People who might over look MA+ could very well notice an R rating.

Since kids under 15 have their parents buy the game then it's on the parents, there is nothing a retailer can really do. Kids over 15 earn their own money and purchase their own games, if there was an R rating then the retailer would not be able to sell to them if they weren't over 18.

I remember a couple of times a couple of years back where my kids told me they'd tried to buy an MA game from two stores (EB and games trader) and been refused. They were told they'd need to show ID or get their parents to buy it. I told them that the shop just saved them the trouble of having to go back down to the shops and return them :) Anyway based on that I presumed the ratings were probably at least reasonably adhered to by retailers.

In my opinion this no-R18 classification thing only perpetuates any sloppy enforcement of sales on this type of media and makes it easier for slack parenting to continue. How hard could it be introduce fines along the lines of those alcohol retailers are threatened with?


And what's la-la about what Dan said? I think you might've misinterpreted it - he's saying that because of the lack of an R rating that some titles which would probably otherwise be classified R, are being squeezed into MA15 and thus being made available to kids, which is what you're saying you don't want to see happen at all costs.

Since kids under 15 have their parents buy the game then it's on the parents, there is nothing a retailer can really do.

This is the main problem. I think that if R18 games had the same sales restrictions as porn magazines (ie, blacked out cover or a separate section of the store that minors aren't permitted) it would go a long way to preventing that.

Sure, it's going to piss off publishers because their game isn't getting the shelf exposure. But I still think that's a better alternative to outright banning.

my 11 year old nephew bought two MA games just last month without his parents, it was me that noticed it and I was curious where he bought it. He said they all buy whatever they like. my lala land comment wasnt for dan :) was for the poster before and to assume the retailer will be responsible when there is no oversight is fraught with issues, I just think adding r18 will make a current issue worse, and for what?

And what's la-la about what Dan said?

I presume he was referring to Scooter's post there.

ok I'll let you off this time

If kids under the age of 15 are coming into a cool hundred bucks to buy a game, you can likely pin-point that on the parents, which means the parents should be responsible for making sure their kids don't buy something they shouldn't.

You can't walk into an R18+ movie at a cinema because you have to show id, any minors caught will result in a fine to said cinema. Introduce tougher fines for breaking a retail law that states you need to be a certain age to buy/play a game.

The other problem without an R18+ rating is certain games that were intended to be played or experienced (by an adult) in a certain way are dumbed down, or RC'd. It's infringing on artistic integrity imo

Kids watch movies and movies have a r18+ rating and movies are cheaper and more accessible then games

Why should gamers miss out ....

Maybe part of the problem is just educating people about the rating system for games. Remember that ABC panel that was talking about Fallout 3 being banned? Half the people on the panel didn't even know we HAD a ratings system for games, let alone knew what it consisted of. Maybe the introduction of an R18 rating, along with a campaign educating parents on the ratings system could go a long way to keeping games out of children's hands that they should not have access to. I see ads on TV all the time explaining the ratings system for television and movies, but we never see anything anywhere educating people about the ratings system for games.

I think in the consciousness of some people M is a bit of a soft rating, parents probably aren't aware that movies and games are graded under entirely different systems and they think ah, M rated movies aren't usually that bad, M rated games are fine. But R rated stuff, thats a hard rating, everyone, educated or not, instinctively knows that R rated stuff is adults only and has to be kept out of the hands of kids. We've been conditioned to know that R rated stuff is just not kid friendly at all, but M rated stuff is a lot more likely to slip under the radar.

But yeah, I also agree, the whole thing is pointless if its not enforced at the point of sale. The idea of charging then fines like people who sell alcohol or cigarettes to minors is a good one imo.

last edited by Khel at 13:47:30 29/Sep/08

It's all a fine theory untill junior hops on the pc and downloads the game anyway. Truth be told, if the kids want it enough, they'll get it in their hands. Buying it off ebay, off an online retailer, any of that, would be easy enough to get around.

But banning it for sale in Australia doesn't make it hard to purcahse anyway, it just means that it's going to come in and be totally unclassified. There are numerous online retailers around the world who will ship to Australia, and don't know our laws, so won't care. on top of which, the parents now won't have ANY indicator on the side of thoe box to tell them anything about the game.

So all you've done is A) force us to send our money over seas. B) No guidelines for the parents that do care enough to check. C) In an indirect manner, encourage piracy. D) Censored adults with out any direct result.

I'm not saying you're wrong, i'd like to see them enforce the rating system on games too. But the same parents who don't care that their kid sits down and watches silent hill, won't care if he buys it.

Yeah sorry. It would be some extreme "La-La" reality if parents actually became responsible for their offspring again...

write a bigger news article next time term, it didn't fill the entire page

well i don't have any kids but i don't think there should be any censorship & parents are definitely to blame, for erm, whatever's wrong in the world. fixup parents!@#! :P

This article is ridiculous. Of course there should be an R18+ rating for games, as there is for other media. It is the responsibility of the parents and retailers to enforce it, as they do for other media.

I think the main problem is retail - the retail of games is greatly un-tested, for example, the lack of existence for an accepted online ID verification. Some sites use a credit card as proof of age, which is incredible. Since when could you buy cigarettes because you showed a credit card?

hmmmm, trog on holidays and term is inciting outrage in the forums... why does this seem familiar :P

This article is ridiculous. Of course there should be an R18+ rating for games, as there is for other media. It is the responsibility of the parents and retailers to enforce it, as they do for other media.

I think the main problem is retail - the retail of games is greatly un-tested, for example, the lack of existence for an accepted online ID verification. Some sites use a credit card as proof of age, which is incredible. Since when could you buy cigarettes because you showed a credit card?

And in the meantime, if no tangible methods of ensuring R18+ titles aren't sold to minors exists? Don't forget the type of content that would now be creatable once an R18+ category exists. Did you even read the thread properly?

And in the meantime, if no tangible methods of ensuring R18+ titles aren't sold to minors exists? Don't forget the type of content that would now be creatable once an R18+ category exists. Did you even read the thread properly?

I think considering there are markets that already have this rating, that the content is already being created. Australia refusing classification would probably mean little to most games, in the global pie, we're a small slice.

I used to think we need an R rating for games, however after thinking about it we don't really.

It keeps the potential R games off the shelves and gives these games less exposure to the young ones. Most of us adults that really want to buy those games can easily import them, usually requiring a credit-card.

This allows any parent who purchased it the opportunity to regulate it, the sneaky kid cant just buy it from a dodgy shop and hide it, he/she would have to use your credit-card and get busted next statement.

If the kid has the ability to download it, then it doesn't matter if it was banned or not.

I think considering there are markets that already have this rating, that the content is already being created. Australia refusing classification would probably mean little to most games, in the global pie, we're a small slice.

k, and if it gets put on the shelf while retailers are not even heeding the classification system?

I'm not saying I agree with this article, but it's far from ridiculous

It keeps the potential R games off the shelves and gives these games less exposure to the young ones. Most of us adults that really want to buy those games can easily import them, usually requiring a credit-card.

Actually, you can't easily import them, if its refused classification here its illegal to import it. And with the growing amount of press this issue is getting, especially with Fallout 3 recently, I wouldn't be suprised if customs starts paying closer attention when stuff like this comes past them.

Its worth adding here, that I know not everyone agrees with me, hell even in our office here we all don't agree, as such this is my view not that of everyone that works here.

So what is the official office's view then? Editorially speaking.

it doesn't have a view, even editorially speaking. it just has cubicles

Wouldn't those selling R18 games to minors be prosecutable under the same laws that people sell other R18 media to minors?

So you're upset about the possible lack of enforcement, rather then the possible classification.

I think considering there are markets that already have this rating, that the content is already being created. Australia refusing classification would probably mean little to most games, in the global pie, we're a small slice.
k, and if it gets put on the shelf while retailers are not even heeding the classification system?

sorry, that statement wasn't a for or against, it was just a, creating an R Rating isn't going to see every developer go out there and replace soldiers with with strippers who inject heroin and throw dildos as their weapons.

I'm upset about the fundamental inability to enforce under the present system yes, I have no opposition to the classification itself, just the classification existing in the current climate.

To say 'but the uk has an X rating' or other arguments similar to this cannot be used since the issue I am pointing out is specific to how these ratings are enforced by the Australian Government, not the Government of the United Kingdom or that of United States of America.

Anyway, its just my view, and I thought rather than hearing the same old s*** you'll read on every other site of omg dont take my game away u bastard government, I thought you might be interested in a different view (weather you agree with it or not).

And in the meantime, if no tangible methods of ensuring R18+ titles aren't sold to minors exists? Don't forget the type of content that would now be creatable once an R18+ category exists. Did you even read the thread properly?

They do exist. Are games sold in shops? Like cigarettes? Ok, so maybe you don't allow online sales of R18+ games in the short-term, but there's no good reason why there isn't an R18+ category that I have heard.

As these things go, if such a category was created now it would come with a massive list of infrastructure required in order to support the distribution anyway.

Yes I read the thread properly, thanks for asking.

Anyway, its just my view, and I thought rather than hearing the same old s*** you'll read on every other site of omg dont take my game away u bastard government, I thought you might be interested in a different view (weather you agree with it or not).

I personally appreciate your view and find it extremely valid, sadly the opposing arguments have valid points as well.

I’d like to see our government promote gaming classifications and assist in educating parents on what games are appropriate for their children, but clearly the cost of such a thing does not have enough positive re-enforcement for the government to bother changing its ways, it’s far easier for them to refuse classification and have the publisher either not sell it in the country or have them edit the game and have it re-classified.

They do exist. Are games sold in shops? Like cigarettes?

wait, maybe it was a pack of cigarettes term's 11 year old nephew had bought, and not an MA15+ game.

Ok, so maybe you don't allow online sales of R18+ games in the short-term

so maybe the article/point of view isn't so ridiculous after all?

Yes I read the thread properly, thanks for asking.

No probs. It really doesn't seem like you did though, cos you just blundered along claiming the article was ridiculous despite the completely un-ridiculous nature of it and it's ensuing conversation.

A few points

children absolutely must, at all costs, be protected

1. Clearly "at all costs" is patently false; or all R rated material on any type of media would be completely banned and possession would be punishable by death. That said, I dont think anyone (except retailers) would object to enforcing games ratings.

2. But in the US, dont Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony refuse to authorize games that are rated 18+ (but allow games that are NC17+)

If we did have an 18+ rating, would we actually see any games with it on consoles?

3. I've also read that some US game retailers (like Walmart) wont carry PC games that are 18+ , meaning that any such game is doomed sales wise

Kids are exposed to adult stuff all the time.

For the last 16 years, I've been watching 18+ and MA movies since I was 7ish, and so have all of my friends. VIOLENCE IN GAMES IS BAD. And? It's also bad in movies, music, pictures, magazines, the net... Either shove in an R rating for games or get rid of the R rating in everything else. The only argument I can see against the R rating is the inability of retailers to restrict children from getting their hands on the stuff. Wow, this is so different from any other industry?

The only successful ratings restriction I've ever seen was in the cinemas, and that's at the IMAX... But at Garden city, carindale, and Hawthorne they don't care.



From my last 16 years experience, trust me.

The ratings system is a joke.

From my last 16 years experience, trust me.

The ratings system is a joke.

which is exactly why we dont have an r18+ rating... if we did it would open the door up to all kinds of nasty s***(which yes, some of it wouldnt be horrific, but some you still wouldnt want children watching) and atm australia doesnt do a good enough job policing the rating system we already have..

open the door up to all kinds of nasty s***

There's my point. The doors already f***ing open.

last edited by Phooks at 20:58:30 29/Sep/08

There's a door? When did they put that in? I've just been using the gaping HUGE hole in the wall.

Also, the same outlets that sell games seem to do ok Selling MA15+ movies.
It's not the ratings thats the problem, it's the culpability of retailers.

its the responsbility of the parents what are their kids doing or buying imo..
and it seems like that monitoring the retailers if their selling to minors are impossible..

This is a tricky one. From a personal standpoint, I really think that there should be an R18 rating for games here, simply because I think it's ridiculous that an industry where the average age of the user is 29 years old doesn't have a product that matches their maturity level. However, there are obviously problems with this when it comes to children game players due to the stupid retailers and equally stupid parents.

I've moved over here from NZ, which has an R18 rating for it's games. I used to work at Dick Smith back in NZ, and I was incredibly diligent about what games I would sell to people. I turned a lot of kids away who were trying to buy R18 games, and would always request to see ID if they even looked like they might not be 18. The reason I was so onto it was because both myself and my employer could be fined massive amounts of money if I sold an R rated game to a minor! Are there no laws like this in Australia? If not, then I guess I can see where the writer is coming from in this article, because without punishment for the retailers then there is no deterrent to stop them from selling R rated games to minors.

In regards to the parents, unfortunately a lot of them really don't seem to be up with the play when it comes to what their kids are playing. I recall a couple of occasions when I was working at DSE, and a parent was purchasing GTA: San Andreas for her son ( who must have been about 13 years old ). I advised her that the game was rated R18, and contained extreme violence and language and sexual situations, but she honestly didn't seem to care. I got the impression that she thought that because it was just a game, it couldn't be that bad. But on the flip-side, there was one parent that I talked out of buying GTA for his son when I told him about it's content. So, there are some smart parents out there who listen to reason :)

way to get on the soap box there term, I remember in the QGL days kids under 15 were freely allowed to attended, most of the content there was way over MA15+, If I remember correctly.. it was only at the end of life of QGL that the admins really enforced the age limit.

how do you get way over ma15?? While I wont disagree with you, we let pretty much anyone attend qgl at the start, and indeed would have afterward as clearly the person had parental consent. This crap doesnt have anything to do with my argument of why we should not have an R18+ classification until we fix the current rating system

way to get on the soap box there term, I remember in the QGL days kids under 15 were freely allowed to attended, most of the content there was way over MA15+, If I remember correctly.. it was only at the end of life of QGL that the admins really enforced the age limit.

Most of the people that attended the LANs were 15 or older, I'd say, if only because it was logistically easier for them to get there. Sure, there were a bunch of younger types at earlier LANs.

IIRC the reason we let them in at all was because we had no knowledge of the rules and regulations that were in place around those things at the time, and as soon as we found out the next LAN was made 15+ only. It didn't even kick up that much of a stink, though there were a few people annoyed by it (many others were like "hey when will it be 18+ so we can drink as well!?" :)

The reason I was so onto it was because both myself and my employer could be fined massive amounts of money if I sold an R rated game to a minor! Are there no laws like this in Australia? If not, then I guess I can see where the writer is coming from in this article, because without punishment for the retailers then there is no deterrent to stop them from selling R rated games to minors.

The current situation as I understand it is that the retailers are required by law to make sure they aren't selling MA15+ games to people under 15. I just had a quick look and couldn't find penalties, but I'm sure there are some, probably not harsh enough though.

It just needs to be ruthlessly and publicly enforced - if they had similar fines like they do for selling minors alcohol I reckon compliance would probably rocket pretty close to 100%. I'm over 30 now and I'm _still_ getting asked for ID when I go into bars, because there's a massive financial incentive for bars to not break the law in this case - because the feds are ruthless about enforcing it, and fines come thick and fast - to the bar and, I believe, to the staff member that breaks the law?

Good post Megakrang despite your OBVIOUS kiwi leanings

I believe if we had a r18 classification then enforcement would be put in place, providing the perfect world system. As it stands currently is it really worth the trouble enforcing just for the m15 limit?

I've been to bars and bought alcohol before, never been asked for ID.

I'm not quite 18.

Shh, don't tell anyone.

They should make it like cigarettes, massive fines for those who supply them to minors. Then introduce the 18+ rating. The threat usually works.

Here it is again: "Won't somebody please think of the children!?". And while we're at it, let's ban cigarettes, alcohol, R rated films, and prescription medication, we wouldn't kids to get their hands on those. What else, how about cars? It would stop the few kids steal them and kill themselves every year, and I'd rather the victim in this saga be a petrol-junkie than a child. Or... we could let adults have access to products intended for adults, and drop the double-standards.