Hello there,

Probably looking at throwing away wads of cash and buying a house/unit in the next 2 years, just wondering about the home buyers grant and those new savings account things where the government takes away ur interst and matches ur deposits or something weird like that...

details :(

krudd knows what the people want*

http://www.xinc.net.au/home_loans/deposit_first_home.html

*the people being normal people not silverspoons with liberal party hookups

Hello there,

Probably looking at throwing away wads of cash and buying a house/unit in the next 2 years, just wondering about the home buyers grant and those new savings account things where the government takes away ur interst and matches ur deposits or something weird like that...

details :(

If you get things just right (income level and saving amount) then you will get around $3000 from the gov annually - traditionally you will earn more through increased equity if you just bought straight up...

fhog = 7k. what more do you want to know lol

is this the same savings account that none of the banks were interested in offering

unless u use it for 4 years, you dont get the bonus, it goes into a super account, which means you wont see it for AGES. just put the money in a normal online saver with 8%

buy a house with minimum deposit
get govt first home buyers
get loan with full offset account (Aussie do this among others).....link a c/card to this
deposit all extra cash in offset and have full pay go there also
live off c/card
if you can control this (card) you will be in front and will own your home sooner..
the trick is the c/card control....

and remember...debt is good!!

You have to have your money in there for 4 years before you can touch it? Or am I reading that wrong....

buy a house with minimum deposit - These days you need 20% not to incur mortgage insurance OR for the Banks to even look at you.

get govt first home buyers - Wow a whole 7k.. I didn't even use it cause it's f***ing worthless edit: sorry girls, only for Investments and now cause there is no stamp duty. Stop crying now.

get loan with full offset account (Aussie do this among others).....link a c/card to this - Yeah so?

deposit all extra cash in offset and have full pay go there also - Again so? Explain why you'd put it in the offset to USE instead of into a higher interest rate account?

live off c/card - Down the road to paying so much interest thereby negating any "savings" you are trying to outline.

if you can control this (card) you will be in front and will own your home sooner. - He won't, not many people do. How is this going to make him own his house sooner?

the trick is the c/card control.... - The trick is to not to do what you've just told this guy to do.

and remember...debt is good!! - Lies.



last edited by Skitza at 11:34:54 28/Sep/08

last edited by Skitza at 11:35:05 28/Sep/08

skitza your a fool. if he cant "control the cc" then he wont control hes spending anyway and therefore will default on his loan and lose the house anyway.

100% offset or line of credit loan is the most effective loan to have. because unless you have an excellent interest rate on your home loan of less then 7% you will be ahead, here is why.

as soon as you deposit your pay etc into the 100% offset it starts reducing the interest you pay on the loan, acting like a savings account of what ever interest rate you have on the loan. the cc incurs NO INTEREST until the end of the 50day period, which is swept from the home loan account BEFORE any interest is paid, thus living on interest free money. thus reducing your loan length and amount paid overall.

if you have a normal loan, you pay interest on your home loan, you then pay tax on your income, you pay tax on the interest in your savings account, you pay more interest on your home loan, because it lasts longer and now you can see how silly your post is.

hope this helps. yes you need to have your money in the home saver account for 4 years before you can USE the the gov money. the money doesn't disappear it goes into a super account for you if you buy before 4 yrs time. the fhbg is GREAT for paying for the legal fees of the loan and purchase, but don't factor it into your purchase amount, it doesn't really work like that.

we're 100% offset with our loan (with cua) and to be honest, we struggle to leave cash in the account

i dont doubt its a good loan setup, but i think when we refinance we'll be looking into something slightly different

need operating account to be separate from savings account, no problems with savings in other accounts (ie ing)

Anono I understand what you are saying it's just a dangerous way to "live" cause then when you f***up and start incuring a stupid amount of interest on your cc, it's all over. Like spook said, there won't be much in that offset account to "use" anyway so now you see how silly you're post is :) Telling someone to live off their CC is not good.

offset is ok but you tend to pay more fees and higher rate on such an account.

The extra pay staying in the account for a month until you repay the CC debt does very little to reduce interest.

its an automatic sweep of the cc, so you will never incur a heavy interest fee.

its always told to be scary because banks lose loads of money from ppl using these loans. its not hard and if used right (ie like any other loan) it is the best way to reduce your loan.

ps you can get fee free "line of credit" 100% offset accounts, so i dont know what your point is. (i know i did mortgage broking for a year or 2 as a bit of extra money)

last edited by Anono at 10:03:52 28/Sep/08

(7k first home grant) I didn't even use it cause it's f***ing worthless.

Did I read that right? You didn't bother to collect 7k from the government, that you will now never be able to get?

...

Filling out the first home owner's grant form is probably the easiest money I will ever make in my entire life.

Wow a whole 7k.. I didn't even use it cause it's f***ing worthless.

7k is worthless, huh?

hey skitza, can I "borrow" $7k plz?

yer, im with hoggy, easiest money i ever made

Did I read that right? You didn't bother to collect 7k from the government, that you will now never be able to get?

I should clear that up :)
For the investment property it was useless (the rent was a better option), if I was living in it, then it would of been a different story - free money yeah. But when stamp duty comes to 10k, you are giving it straight back to the government, so really, it's a little useless.

no stamp duty anymore for homes up to 500k for first home buyers!

get govt first home buyers - Wow a whole 7k.. I didn't even use it cause it's f***ing worthless.

What the hell are you talking about...taking $7k off the loan amount on an average kind of loan (let's say $400k-450k) you're looking at saving about $30k-40k across a 20 year period. A bit less if you want to pay it off within say 7-15 years, but you'll still save more than $7k in repayments alone. So you get $7k...save more money....it is free money why not take it?! That's just f***ing stupid.

f*** you're a knob skitza lol..

But when stamp duty comes to 10k, you are giving it straight back to the government, so really, it's a little useless.

+7k fhog - 10k stamp duty = 3k out of pocket
or
+0 fhog - 10k stamp duty = 10k out of pocket

mm its a tough one.

I can see what you're saying about not using it for an IP but you're coming across as a total cock in the process.

^ I clarified, relax. Of course it's not useless if you can actually use it. If they bring it back to 14k then it will be even better + no stamp duty.

not worth it, just 100% loan the bitch up
I bought mine 10 months ago with a 100% loan and already its worth 20% more

lived in it for long enough to keep my FHOG and im now renting it out for phat lewt
I also get the added benefit of writing off the loss from the get go, rather than trying to make 8% on my piddly savings account while paying rent

to each their own but I'm glad I did it this way, I'm getting ready to buy a second place with the equity in the first

can't agree with you Skitza...Anono explained my meaning so i won't revisit that, he has grasped how it works.

the key is control. it's not for everyone but it works for some.
we've been on it for 3 years.
full pay goes in - as good as gives us 8.25% and anything above monthly required payment sits as available cash + reduces the principal.

living off c/card - easy to do and manage and fully paid out each month thus no interest. no different than using your cash for food, power, phones etc....thats why i mentioned the control aspect
(plus we have a Velocity NAB card so get massive points each month which we use for airfares around Aus anytime we feel like a break.)

there is no one size fits all for these sort of things it depends on individual circumstances (salary, lifestyle, family) and what you think you can handle.

First home owners -VS- Deposit thing?

I'd go the first home owners. Mainly because you get to experience saving for a deposit and knowing how to control your finances for a few years.

elaborate on the living for long enough to keep fhbg plz tequila

one of the FHOG requirements is that the property is your primary residence for at least 6 month

i went into the bank yesterday to ask about this, first they new nothing about it, second with 20k deposit and annual income on 55k the maximum they would give me is 187k, so basically unless your making 70k+ don't even consider buying a place if your on a single income.

you don't need a deposit, the only real reason to have a deposit other than to reduce the minimum monthly repayment, is to save yourself from having to pay mortgage insurance

if you're borrowing more than 80% of the value for your property the banks require that you have insurance on the loan, because there's no equity for them to take if you default on your payments

mortgage insurance on 375k was about $8k, far far less than your 20% deposit

lenders are so fickle:

when we got our loan a few years back (sup 6.5%) the banks were lining up to give us however much we wanted

we had to take a step back after our first mortgage broker pretty much told us to borrow as much as we needed for our dream house (but not any of the bad stuff that went with borrowing that much money)

was much happier with our second mortgage broker, mortgage choice, who at least said, "yes you can borrow as much as you want, but if you do, it will cost you this"

Yeh there was heaps of dodgy stuff going on in the last few years.

if you're borrowing more than 80% of the value for your property the banks require that you have insurance on the loan, because there's no equity for them to take if you default on your payments

Apparently this is a sliding scale though, so the cost of the mortgage insurance at 19% deposit is much less than at 2%.

last edited by Hogfather at 13:39:05 28/Sep/08

Our first mortgage broker was from Aussie who was an absolute COCK. All he wanted to do was get my wifeys parents to put a 2nd mortgage on their house which would act as a deposit for our house to avoid mortgage insurance - he was completely ignoring the fact we kept saying "No, that's a retarded idea" and "We can come up with the 20% deposit so we don't need mortgage insurance".

Ended up with him being turfed out and wifeys dad about to punch his chops in ... good times.

Second time around we went with a financial broker who was and still is exceptional.

Edit: replaced "Mortgage Choice" with "Aussie" since I noobed it up and forgot where he was from. Also reading his last email he sent me, he didn't even make sure he knew wifeys name and instead called her Rebecca which is as far removed from her name as possible.

last edited by TicMan at 14:12:58 28/Sep/08

Apparently this is a sliding scale though, so the cost of the mortgage insurance at 19% deposit is much less than at 2%.

Yes.

i went into the bank yesterday to ask about this, first they new nothing about it, second with 20k deposit and annual income on 55k the maximum they would give me is 187k, so basically unless your making 70k+ don't even consider buying a place if your on a single income.

different banks have different lending styles.. that bank said no, try again with someone else if you really want to buy.

how is the inflated cost of housing sustainable?

earn more money

$7k is better in my pocket than the government's. and thats a fact.

how is the inflated cost of housing sustainable?

it's not, there is a major real estate crash just around the corner in australia. we are one step behind the US and it has everything with that debt bubble, credit crunch you may have heard of.

so keep your cookies dry if you're thinking of buying, there are some real bargains about to come on the market.

last edited by infi at 23:29:28 28/Sep/08

don't even consider buying a place if your on a single income.

Loans should be based on a single income rather than combined income IMO.

I was talking to my uncle about just that the other day Twisted.

He reckons that half the problem with housing prices is that banks allow double incomes to be considered, apparently they didn't used to do this. Net result? Increased capacity to meet housing debt resulted in a surge in prices and you now either need to be doing pretty well or have both parents working to get a house these days.

We're lucky - our mortgage is under 300k and my business meets that well enough for wifey to stay home with the kids. I'd feel sick if my kids spent the first 5 years of their life in 5-day child care.

The FHOG might have been worth something if it hadn't caused house prices to increase by 7k (or 14k in Vic since the state government match it), but both stupid governments didn't think it through and as a result everyone got royally screwed.

Anyone who is talking about borrowing money 3+ months ago vs. tufnuts experience a week ago, is talking about 2 very different times.

The reason double incomes are used is simple. People were using double incomes to buy houses. Why make artifical rules that don't reflect reality ?

I'd feel sick if my kids spent the first 5 years of their life in 5-day child care.

Dunno why... I have met home schooled 9 year olds (the logical extension of day care is bad, is so is sending them to kindy or school). They are poorly socialised freaks who lack general everyday common knowledge s*** ... like what's your left and what's your right

The FHOG might have been worth something if it hadn't caused house prices to increase by 7k (or 14k in Vic since the state government match it), but both stupid governments didn't think it through and as a result everyone got royally screwed.

Regardless of whether prices went up or not it still provides an starting point for a deposit.

7k in 300k = 2.3%
7k in 307k = 2.2%

Either number is much bigger that 0%. How is this not 'worth something'?

Dunno why... I have met home schooled 9 year olds (the logical extension of day care is bad, is so is sending them to kindy or school). They are poorly socialised freaks who lack general everyday common knowledge s*** ... like what's your left and what's your right

Yeh, cos I totally meant home schooling to 9 years old in my post Obes. You're a big smart man, do you know what hyperbole means?

The FHOG might have been worth something if it hadn't caused house prices to increase by 7k

i'm sure the FHOG led to an increase in demand but i've never seen, heard or read anything that suggests it led to a price rise of $7k across the board... did you just make that up or is it actually based on something?

it's not, there is a major real estate crash just around the corner in australia. we are one step behind the US and it has everything with that debt bubble, credit crunch you may have heard of.

so keep your cookies dry if you're thinking of buying, there are some real bargains about to come on the market.

you've been saying that for quite a while, infi. you know even a broken watch is right twice a day :P

well i warned of the major stock market correction too.

everyone knows property is next in the investment cycle to follow when an economy contracts. the stock market can react through immediate pricing and liquidity.

property takes a little longer to react. if you buy an investment property now you are playing with fire.

first home buyers, well you can never go wrong really buying a private home, but think about waiting 12-18 months and save yourself a pile of dough.

taggs, feel free to ignore me as a raving loony...

Poor hogfather ... you start playing the man and not the ball it means you are frustrated with losing.

For every study saying child care is bad is another saying a good child care is good. In otherwords... you are guilt tripping other parents/prospective parents.

Its sad... I agree with infi (well partly, I think its 6 to 12 months and not 12 to 18). The ABS and other data says the number of houses being sold has drastically reduced, but prices as of yet have only sat stationary. Eventually the price will drop (I think only 5-10%) to get them moving again. But at end of the day, vacany rates are still unworkably low so demand is high so it won't collapse US/UK style. and after the dip they will go back to sustainable growth, not growth 4 to 6 times CPI.

In otherwords I think the real correction is still coming.

ps. no I have no finacial clues at all...
pps. all on red ... err I mean the USD

there is a major real estate crash just around the corner in australia. we are one step behind the US and it has everything with that debt bubble, credit crunch you may have heard of.

so keep your cookies dry if you're thinking of buying, there are some real bargains about to come on the market.

usual doom & gloom bulls***... think you've been reading too much news.com.au :)

who reads that garbage!?

well, you're a wave theorist so you must be at least part raving looney. i kid, i kid :P

everyone knows property is next in the investment cycle to follow when an economy contracts. the stock market can react through immediate pricing and liquidity.

property takes a little longer to react. if you buy an investment property now you are playing with fire.

i agree with this though equity markets are far more volatile than most other asset markets, particularly property. I think the strong, and increasing, demand in SE QLD and relatively benign supply-side response will see prices continue to rise over the medium/long term. over the next 12 months prices might stagnate or even take a little dip in certain markets but the chances of a crash like in the US are next to f*** all, imo of course =)

Poor hogfather ... you start playing the man and not the ball it means you are frustrated with losing.

For every study saying child care is bad is another saying a good child care is good. In otherwords... you are guilt tripping other parents/prospective parents.

Cry more Obes; way to dodge the hyperbole accusation though. I'm still not sure how you magically leapt from "5-days child care from birth" to "9 years home schooling". My point is that 5-day care from a couple of months is NOT the best option for the child.

We actually voluntarily put our kids into care from 3.5 to 5 for a day or two to ensure they are properly socialised and ready for school. This is the same thing my parennts did for me 30-odd years ago.

My beef is with 5-day child care from 6-12 weeks old. This is usually economically driven where a family on 2x50k can't support a mortgage without full time care, or a single parent who has no option. Hell, our oldest was 5-days care from 3-4ish because we needed 2x50 so no, I'm not guilt tripping anyone who has been forced into this s***ty situation.

You might want to keep your eye on the ball yourself?

I whole-heartedly endorse 5 day a week care as providing excellent care and developmental opportunities for children while enabling our country to be more productive in its war efforts against east-asia and eurasia.

So now childcare good ? ... f*** hogfather you sure are s***ty parents sending your kids off to baby prison I mean child care.

also infi eats babies...

I sure hope you aren't a teacher Obes. Your comprehension's completely s***house.

5-day from birth / 6 weeks = worst.
A few days per week leading into school = ideal.

Most people will need to settle for something in between the two extremes depending on circumstances. The worst time for kids to be in full time care is the first year though.

After my wife gave up cheffing she did some child care before being able to stay home and look after the kids. On the basis of what I've heard from her, you don't want your kids in most centres.

Childcare workers = certificate trained III,and subject to government accreditation and regular inspection, government funded, child-safe building environment.

Stay at home parents = no f***ing clue, no license, unregulated, child hazards all over house, government funded.

I own and run 3 centres. They are fantastic and the kids have a ball. I don't know what you scaremongers are going on about.

Obes' was my year 12 english teacher heh, he sure was s*** at anything with words in it.

Even infi will tell you there are good centers and bad centers.

And once again with the personal attacks hogfather ... whats next baseball bats at 50 yards ?

*edit*

Obes' was my year 12 english teacher heh, he sure was s*** at anything with words in it.

I taught casa the tandem chute years ago!

Even infi will tell you there are good centers and bad centers.

And how do you suppose you can tell the difference? You have no hope in hell.

f*** hogfather you sure are s***ty parents sending your kids off to baby prison I mean child care.

...

And once again with the personal attacks hogfather ... whats next baseball bats at 50 yards ?

Hope I didn't kick you in the feelings; I wasn't seriously attacking you. Harden the f*** up Obey, you gotta take if you gonna give :p

last edited by Hogfather at 15:05:30 29/Sep/08

obes is teh samrts

you tell the difference the same as anyone - word of mouth, and trial and error.

Yeh, trial and error. Russian Roulette with child welfare, its all the rage!

haha, pick who doesnt have kids in the thread:

we're putting spook jnr into kiddy care a day a week so mummy can get back to dancing to earn daddy some fat stax

its been an extremely stressful experience first of all finding any centres with room for spook jnr, and then trying to find good ones :(

mummy is going to go along and hang out for a day to make sure its gonna be ok

protips for Spook:

If you can, show up at random times to do collects unnannounced. You want to catch the centre off guard wherever possible. Until you get some credible trust / evidence, don't believe a f***ing word they say about how well jr is fitting in or going.

If the centre is a business (ie for profit, most are), always keep that in mind. Most centres have a solid policy to sugar coat the s*** out of any feedback so that you don't think about finding a centre that's a better fit.

Good luck matey!

haha hogfather I couldn't give a s*** about your derailment of choice.

I actually came here fishing for other noobs you were a lucky bi-product

Obes--

I don't like trolls. Another person to avoid responding to when they make dumbarse remarks.

Just heard on the radio that there's a possibility of the baby bonus being scrapped for 18 months paid maternity leave instead. Haven't heard much more than that tho

you sound like you have zero clue about childcare hogfather, or got burnt once and have now become a crazy anti-childcare loony.

fyi there are 100,000s of childcare places operating safely all over australia so pull your head in.

Seriously hogfather... surprise inspections is not a good way to pick anything. Good way to annoy staff or at the very least make them think you're queerer then manlisa in a mini skirt.

ps. you won't be able to help yourself... I claim that I have even got trog to nibble on some bait.

f*** the baby bonus, f*** paid maternity leave.

have a kid with your own dollars.

also, there are two different types of child care worker, the accredited type and the unaccredited type. its typically 1 accredited person per "room". with maybe 4 unaccredited. depends on the age of the kids in the room.

those unaccredited types pretty much just need a blue card.

you sound like you have zero clue about childcare hogfather, or got burnt once and have now become a crazy anti-childcare loony.

fyi there are 100,000s of childcare places operating safely all over australia so pull your head in.

Pull your own head in? Last time I checked I'm entitled to have an opinion. How many children have you had in care mate? Has your wife worked in the industry?

Lemme guess, great big fat no to both. No doubt you probably have stocks or commercial interest in centres. My son was in two centres over a couple of years and I'd rate the first one as abysmal (from information we got after we moved) and the second one as adequate. We were very lucky to find a Group Leader that we liked and trusted.

Commercial child care in Australia is s***house in general. Child care shouldn't be a f***ing business.

Just last week we heard of a story locally where a 3 year old child 'escaped' care and was missing for over two hours without the parent being advised. Child was found playing in a gutter. When the child was found what was the parent told?

You need to make sure that Little Johnny stays inside.

Yeh that s*** is f***ing tip top! How about the 'trade trick' my wife was told about of pinching down on toddler's fingernails while holding their hand and sweetly telling them off for something? Hurts like all hell and doesn't leave a mark.

Good centres and carers exist but they are not the norm. Child care workers are paid minimum f***ing wage, and so either attract people who genuinely want to work with kids (and then often burn out) or the bottom feeders of society. Turnover is absurdly high - you'd be very lucky to find a centre where the rooms have not had to change permanent staff in the last 6 months.

In general community-based centres are much better than commercial ones, as they charge the same rates but re-invest profits to the centre. This means they can afford better equipment for the kids and lower ratios for the rooms.

last edited by Hogfather at 17:54:15 29/Sep/08

Yes, it is easy to tell who doesn't have kids in this thread.

In general community-based centres are much better than commercial ones, as they charge the same rates but re-invest profits to the centre.

Another blatantly wrong generalisation. Not for profits in any market will always be more inefficient. They do not have shareholders nor any obligation to deliver a profit. If the books balance then they are all smiles.

As I said there are 100,000s of licensed places in Australia. Just because you got a bad beat don't go bagging the industry.

You are using isolated examples when if you used those error rates as a statistic of the whole service delivered nationwide you would find the error rate is miniscule.

Much lower than public hospitals for example.

I understand you have personal experiences so that has helped you form your opinion.

last edited by infi at 19:17:18 29/Sep/08

i saw a child care center where they raped babies then the childcare workers had a massive sex orgy and taught sex ed to 5 year olds by having them do oral on one another

pm me when i should buy a house, dunno what happened to my lovely thread :(

Turnover is absurdly high - you'd be very lucky to find a centre where the rooms have not had to change permanent staff in the last 6 months.

In general community-based centres are much better than commercial ones, as they charge the same rates but re-invest profits to the centre. This means they can afford better equipment for the kids and lower ratios for the rooms.

First question I asked when checking out Childcare centers was, 'What's the staff turn-over like?' I got an answer then would ask a staff member when the boss isn't around a similar question to check up on it.

My lil girl goes to a community childcare once a week, profits are reinvested back into the business and staff turner is very low, staff are paid above award and have good holiday rates. They have their own Watcher/slayer ratio, better then the legal requirement.
The play area rocks! So much stuff to do, very well organized and not a single square inch of that crappy fake grass mat stuff. Plenty of shade and trees.

We scored big-time getting a place there.

The commercial places weren't anywhere near as good, I'm sure they exist, just hard to find. I also didn't go near ABC Childcare, I really don't like the play area those places have to offer among other things.



last edited by Tollaz0r! at 21:37:34 29/Sep/08