Hi guys. I'm a bit of a HDTV noob.

Anyways, We are thinking of buying a plasma TV (plasma because little kiddies hands + LCD screen = bad). Am I right in thinking that a standard AV Cable (Red,White,Yellow) from the HD set top box to the HDTV would only support 576 resolution and not the purdy higher resolutions. I would have to buy a HDMI cable (set top and tv support it)?

Also, what is the difference between 576i and 576p? Cheers.

Aye Google may answer these questions but you guys answer it with LOVE!

hijacking thread to ask what tv to buy with 1500-2000$

Anyways, We are thinking of buying a plasma TV (plasma because little kiddies hands + LCD screen = bad).

Why would this be any different to little kiddie hands + plasma? Also just tell your kids to keep their grubby hands off the TV.

Am I right in thinking that a standard AV Cable (Red,White,Yellow) from the HD set top box to the HDTV would only support 576 resolution and not the purdy higher resolutions.

Red/white/yellow (composite cable) only supports 480i. This means that it can only display at 640x480 in interlaced mode which is s***.

Difference between interlaced and progressive scan

To display at HD and progressive scan you will either need a component {red/green/blue) or as you said HDMI. I'd go component personally as it is cheaper and your HD set top box will definitely support it.

Try and buy a TV with the HD tuner built in. It makes for one less item taking up space and probably works out cheaper as well.

Am I right in thinking that a standard AV Cable (Red,White,Yellow) from the HD set top box to the HDTV would only support 576 resolution and not the purdy higher resolutions.

Most TV's come with a HD tuner in them these days don't they? All the ones I checked out did, these were LCD though.

^^ What he said. You will find a LOT of the TVs these days have inbuilt HD tuners.

Edit: I meant what fpot said, damn you Twisted!

hijack part 2.

can u get any pc hd tv tuners? i run some haugpage ones here, but am coming back to oz soon.

The extra glassy goodness on plasma screens feels significantly more solid then LCD screens. Besides, I like the word Plasma, so space agey.

I went LCD because my lounge is very bright and that glassy goodness reflects greatly.

If you can afford it, go for a pioneer - they are significantly better than anything else. Next best would be a panasonic, you can get 42" HD for around $1300. Personally i wouldn't go for any other brand of plasma. Go have a good look at a few sets and you'll see why. Definitely stay away from any LG set.

Stick with HDMI for your connections where possible - if you have foxtel then get a scart -> component adapater and use that. Pretty much everything has a built in hd tuner now a days for FTA.

Don't ever every use the "red white yellow" plugs for anything, componsite video (ie the yellow plug) is absolute balls. If you have old gear at least go with a svideo connection instead it's 100% better than composite.

Unless you're going 60" plus don't get too concerned with a 1080p set.

hijack part 2.

can u get any pc hd tv tuners? i run some haugpage ones here, but am coming back to oz soon.

TV is TV ... Hauppauge are sold here, Australian optimized drivers can be found here

As for people commenting on brands ...

What I learnt from my recent experience.

Go and look at them set up properly in an environment similar to where you are going to watch it, try to get them to put on some sport, and or movies other then the cartoons they usually have on (cartoons must have uber colours or something). You are buyiung it, buy what you like not what some expert nerd says they like (and could be saying it for all sorts of reasons). (Also you don't have to buy from where they are set up properly, just go look, then buy from some cheap ass place with no clue)

To me, the Sony Bravia's (LCD) were the pick of the bunch but pricey. In plasmas, I actually preferred Panasonic and Samsung (looked pretty much the same to me) to Pioneer (blacks weren't quite as good imo) and Pioneer are vastly more expensive. *shrug* interestingly no salesman tried to "up sell" the pioneers.

And remember to haggle. rrp 1700-1800, probably listed at 1400-1500 you can haggle to ~1300.

last edited by Obes at 22:22:07 27/Apr/08

plasma :(

dont compare visual performance in a shop - they arnt set up correctly and will give biased results

depends on the shop and you can always ask the salesperson to adjust the settings.

i sell the things, and i'll change the settings if a person asks

Hey sorry to hijack, I'm looking at getting a new TV for my parents soon (next few days) but I'm a noob at this. Can anyone offer some advice?

At the moment I'm leaning towards LCD, could anyone suggest good models/brands... I know bikeseat said Sony but any others worth a look?

For 46' im looking at around 3k probebly?

i like the samsung lcds that were around a bit earlier (computer alliance were selling them)

46" 50" and 60" and they had a deal where they came with a free 19" tv as well

when u go to a shop to look at the tv's just look at the back of the units to see what inputs they have, when they have a bluray playing finding nemo through hdmi on a piece of s*** hisense lcd, yet they have a dvd playing a std movie through rca on a sony.. i'd steer clear of those c***s (read: JB hifi)

Some shops think DVDs should be played on 78" $70,000 LCD HDTVs.

epic - if you want a deal and to have a look at the differences in tv's, come see me. i've just changed locations to HN in the valley. ask for Keith

spook, we sold those same ones, and could match the price. the bonus LCD was a deal from samsung, not them, and it's since finished (feb 29)

Sony seem to be the go for LCDs.
A bit expensive but they seem to have the best depth and blacks.

W series = 50hz
X series = 100hz
XBR series = same as X but with a new frame =\

There is a pretty big difference with 50 and 100hz in my opinion. The sales person tried telling me other wise.
Probably just trying to move the old stock.

Ended up going Plasma.
I wanted a Samsung but they decided on the Panasonic.
It offeres 100/50hz choices and 1080p.
Not many 50" plasma offered 1080p at a decent price.
Also has built in HD tuner as you'd imagine and a SD card reader.

Not as many features as the Sony (adjustment&display) but it looks ok and for $3000 it wasn't too bad.

Also I was suprised at the quality of audio.
Pretty kick ass for TV speakers.

It offeres 100/50hz choices

actually, they're all 100hz, and have been for the last 18mths at least.

panasonic plasma's that is, not all tv's :P

Oh I meant you could switch between the two modes.
NFI why you would but yer.

Hey guys.. another hijack.
im after either a plasma or lcd max budget $1500... dosent matter on size however there will be a viewing distance of around 2/2.5m.

Any ideas on which?

Leaning towards a panasonic 42" plasma as we have one in lounge and am happy with this.

Also Erik - any chance of a hookup :O :P

cheers erik i might just do that :) you working on sat? I remember you actually from QGL lans ages ago.. me and my dorky friends sat near you one year and you showed us some AMD melting video.. lol

apparently there was an acer 40" LCD @ "WOW" a few weeks back. for 1k. Maybe check em out?

Only a f***ing moron would buy an LCD as a television.

lolz

yeah guys, all are welcome. just make sure you identify yourself as alias/qgl personage so i know who you are and sort it for ya's ;)

edit: and yes, i'm working saturday

cheers man. whats the cheapest you think you can go on a 46" sony bravia x series considering im fkn awesome? :) <3 <3 <3

Only a f***ing moron would buy an LCD as a television.

Why?

Everywhere I look I see roughly half the people saying "omgz, get LCD" and the other half saying "omgz, plasma ftw". The justifications they usually use seem to make sense but at the end of the day (at least at the high level that I've looked at them at), both of them seem pretty much the same to me.

Is there a definitive reason I have completely missed why I should get one over the other?

Yer, The world PLASMA. That should be enough. Plasma. So Spaceagy. LCD pffft, Plasma...

ive been using a plasma for a year now and all i can say is get a LCD.

plasma sparkle is annoying as f*** and every plasma gets it.

This is plasma sparkle using my mouse pointer on a TCL 42" plasma television. I am using DVI from a ATI 9550 video card.
Its quite noticeable watching programs but my N70 is not good enough quality to capture it.

I know waht you mean - the sparkle/shimmer of plasmas is horrid.

But you know that someone anti-LCD is immediately going to cite "mouse trails" as a rebuttal. :)


I'm sticking to my behemoth CRT HDTV - nothing has beaten its PQ thus far.

I prefer the look of LCD's. I imagine it's mostly a personal thing. To me plasmas are pretty and shiny, with good blacks and smooth motion, but it seems to me that LCD's have sharper image and better colours. Again, I believe this is largely a personal impression. LCD's also use as little as 2/3rds the power, so that's a plus.

The general rule of thumb is that plasma will give you more screen for your dollar. Both LCD and plasma are looking hot these days, and the weaknesses of both both technologies have largely been ironed out. There are plenti of technologies that prevent screen burn in plasma and the newest gen lasts almost as long as an LCD 'in theory'. Motion blur is getting a lot harder to catch on LCD's these days, and their blacks are getting very close to those on plasma.

I guess overall I'd recommend plasma for you (even though I prefer LCD myself). The plasma has a nice, hard glass surface that's gonna be a bit tougher for your kids to break. It's cheaper, and having kids I'm guessing there's a few things you could do with the money saved. And if your kids DO manage to break it, you'll have pissed a grand or two less down the drain.

ok, even though we've covered this repeatedly already this year:

one of the main things i needed my tv to do, was be a computer monitor so i could watch all my dled medias in the living room, via laptop over vga cable

yes, plasmas can do it, but lcds are better at it, i dont have to worry about burn in (deal with it plasma people, its still an issue)

and as for the negative points on lcds, yes, my cheaper lcd tends to blur a tiny bit for sports watching, my sony has NO BLUR whatso ever;

also quality lcds dont seem to suffer from being watched at an angle

i briefly considered plasmas before i bought my teles, but their supposed better picture quality was negligble and lcds were better suited for everything else i wanted

it was a nobrainer for me to choose lcd and its why i recommend lcd to qgl

luckily, for my family and friends, i didnt base my decision on how cool the name of the product was . .. .. .




last edited by Spook at 06:37:06 01/May/08

I apologise for calling LCD owners f***ing idiots. If youre the type of person who wants to watch a blurry muck of colourless faded mess then by all means get an lcd.

you only need to put the two side by side to realise the difference. but I guess different people are sensitive to different defects.

i prefer LCD because it seems to be a more popular bandwagon at the moment, and it makes me feel all pro-like.

LOL WTF. ^^

Anyway, comes down to application IMO.

PC/gaming DVI inputs, I'd go LCD.

Blu-ray, DVD, HDTV and the usual home theater stuff, I'd go Plasma.

Don't expect too much from the lower end stuff though, regardless of LCD or Plasma. They'll still be s***.
Blur, lack of colour, blacks that's not even black, sparks and specs.

epic you should be able to haggle the 50" panasonic PX70A for under $1500. VERY good TV for the money, and dont' stress about its lack of 1080P cause tbh that's a bit of a wank for screens even that size.

orb, I was actually checking out that 70A (although the smaller one I think); I thought about it and atm 1080p isn't really that big a deal for me I reckon. I think a 50" would be too big for my lounge room (its pretty small) so might check it out.

Thanks for the feedback guys

Yeah the whole 'who f***ing cares about 1080p?' is a good point at the moment. I honestly don't think I own (or desire to own) anything that can output video at 1080p. Most of the time people who are fapping to their 1080p are just fapping to something that has just been upscaled from a lower resolution.

Nooooo don't waste your money on 1080i! there is stacks of content on 1080p and it all f***ing rocks. People who say there is no need either have no forsight or stupidly bought 1080i and our now living in denial.

The only time you would ever by a 1080i tele is if you are looking for quality on a budget OR its a 2nd tele.

I am looking for vague quality on a budget; I don't really feel I can justify spending the extra grand or more on 1080p when the vast majority of the content I'm gonna watch/play probably won't be 1080p anyway. I guess if I get 1080i or even 720p(?) and can play Xbox 360 games in decent resolution I'll be pretty happy

Nooooo don't waste your money on 1080i! there is stacks of content on 1080p and it all f***ing rocks.

seriously dude... (btw, i'm up after a late night, so i apologise if this sounds pissy)

first of all, 1080i is a video format, not a resolution. what you mean to say is "don't get a WXGA screen" ie, 1366x768. it's not 1080i.

second, there are many, many great tv's out there that aren't Full HD (1920x1080), that can still deliver a great picture.

third, price. not everyone is willing to pay the extra for a Full HD screen, especially if they're going for a larger screen.

forth, blu-ray content and some select next-gen console material is about the only 1080P video out there. tv broadcasts can only do up to 1080i, maximum.


don't get me wrong, 1080p can look brilliant, but it's not the only solution out there for people, so don't say "noooo, you must get it". you need to find something to fit the solution they're looking for, whether it be size, budget, panel type, etc

Well the human eye can't resolve the difference from 1080P resolution on a 50" screen unless you're really quite close to the screen, that is less than 2.5 metres away. Most people would have setups in their lounge where they'd be 3-4 metres away from the screen, meaning there would be no point in the full HD resolution.

linky

Then there's the face that to make the smaller pixels in a 1080P screen (compared with a 768P one of the same size) you MUST sacrifice something. Typically it's contrast ratio or colour gamut. Therefore from a regular viewing distance, you might find the 768P set will actually display better picture quality than the 1080P one.

I'm not against 1080P - I bought a 50" 1080P screen, but only because I could, not because I needed to :)

just ignore ross like the rest of us are erik

I sit 2.5m away from a a 160cm tele

My point still stands you must either have no forsight or be on a tight budget to buy 1080i.

And you all just prove my points from other threads that everyone except me on this board is a f***ing moron

haha, so passionate about screens. I've only been running 720p on the xbox at home even though the tv supports 1080p on component. I can't really tell the difference and I figured the higher res would just mean lower framerates.

Ross doesn't know anything... infact he pulls his hair out and eats it.

Why?

Everywhere I look I see roughly half the people saying "omgz, get LCD" and the other half saying "omgz, plasma ftw". The justifications they usually use seem to make sense but at the end of the day (at least at the high level that I've looked at them at), both of them seem pretty much the same to me.

Is there a definitive reason I have completely missed why I should get one over the other?

Here you go Trog... Here are the pro's vs cons. I'm trying to be unbiased here.

For Plasma
Better colours
Better contrast ratio
More fluid movement of picture than LCD.

For LCD
Lower power consumption
Generally work better with PC inputs (not always)
1080p sets are cheaper than 1080p in Plasma

Supporting Facts
LCD technology works based on a backlight, with a filtering layer to create blacks. Even when the screen is completely black, the backlight is on, and the LCD panel is trying to block out as much light as possible. Plasma on the other hand is made of cells (one red, one green, one blue per pixel) that can actually be turned off individually. It doesn't use a backlight. This means that Plasma can display much blacker blacks.

This difference also explains my theory on power usage between LCD and plasma. Plasma TV's use all their power by charging the cells to get them to light up. They only charge the cells that are turned on at any one time, so if you're displaying an entire screen of white, all three sub-pixels are on (mixing R+B+G = White) while if you're showing an entire screen of black, none of the cells are on. You will notice that the "BAD" plasma power figures are based on "Max usage" where as LCD is commonly shown as "average". LCD's use very little power to actually charge the pixels, but a high amount for the backlight, which is permanently on. So, plasma usage varies dramatically depending on whats on the screen, while LCD power usage pretty much stays the same permanently.


Honestly, I think you need to look at both, and decide what specific model you like best. Obviously its hard to compare because stores all connect their displays with different inputs, so some screens will be disadvantage and others will be artificially made to look better.

For me, if its 42" you're looking for, I'd be paying about $1350 for a Panasonic plasma.

I AM THE REASON OBES HAS NO FACIAL HAIR.....

Also the reason his gay, he just couldn't get over my sweet candy ass

I'm currently in the market for a new screen. I'm all but decided on the 50" Pioneer 508XDA Kuro. I've had a look at all the sets side by side and you cannot beat the blacks on the Pioneer. This set can be had for $2500-2700 with some bargaining and it comes with 5yr warranty, delivery and installation. In the end all LCD and Plasma are going to look farkin awesome when they recieve a HD input, what will distinguish the TV's apart is how they handle SD and lower inputs. I'm sure I am like most and still have mostly SD (DVD) media to playback so at this stage that is the most important thing. I looked at the Samsungs and Pioneers in Plasma and the SD playback wasn't as good as the Pio. I also looked at all the LCD offerings, I just hate the jaggies around the edges they produce on SD playback and also the motion stutter/blurring in sport etc (yes even the 100hz models).

IMO full 1080p is only noticeable if you are sitting really close to the TV(less than 2m) or you have a 58" plus screen. My viewing distance is around 3.0-3.2m so in a 50" TV full HD isn't really necessary. I'd rather get something I am happy with now (at my price point) and see what happens over the next few years, maybe 2048p TVs will start to appear.

I'm sure I am like most and still have mostly SD (DVD) media to playback so at this stage that is the most important thing. I looked at the Samsungs and Pioneers in Plasma and the SD playback wasn't as good as the Pio.

Get a device that upscales your DVDs (it'll do it better then a tv). eg. HTPC or 360
note. PS3 can upscale as long as you have been updating your PS3.

I actually use a HTPC for everything. It makes TV s*** laods better.

Mass, you might not be aware, but Pioneer are soon going to stop selling Plasma and start reselling Sharp LCD panels. Pioneer are definatley the best brand for plasma, just you pay a bit more for it. The model you're talking about - is it 1080p? You should take a look at the (upcoming) TH-50PZ800U or TH-50PX80A.

The former = Entry model 50", around $2250, and the later is a midrange model.

Might want to keep an eye out.

i have no bluring on my sony 50" lcd

i can quite happily watch the footy (on either hd or through foxtel) and there is no issue

same goes for the cricket or whatever other sport i wanna watch

Sony bravias are sexy (and expensive)

Spook... You might not have any blurring, but when you sit a plasma next to it, it would look that way. The same as your contrast might look awesome, but sit a kuro next to it, and it would look as though your TV had confused black with grey.

mongie there is no such thing as a tv better than lcd, when will you realise this?

thats right

thank you pave

Spook, that is because your eyes are as retarded as your brain

Mongie's living in the old ages where technology hadn't advanced.

OH, okay saint.

Has the method of measuring true contrast ratios "advanced" as well?

30000:1 vs 2000:1.

Thats a big difference.

PS: you guys should go talk to avsforum. They'd laugh at the suggestion that an LCD was better than a Plasma.

axtually, my eyes much are more retarted then my brain

Pio are actually staying in the Plasma market, but they are being made by Panasonic. The Pio model I am looking at is a 1366x768 the internal scaler will do 1080p.

Obes: I run everything through my HTPC, just put a blu-ray in it the other day. Yes the PC does do the upscaling and better than ps3 and upscaling dvd players etc. The circuitry in the PIO does an awesome job of cleaning up SD sources and with very little screwing around. I've have to sit there and fully configure FFDshow to clean up the SD sources and I just can't be farked.

For anyone looking to build a HTPC here are the specs I put together and it rocks:

Hardware:
Giga-byte GA-MA78GM-S2H mobo
AMD 4800+ (65w) CPU
2 Gig 800mhz Kingston RAM
2 x Samsung 750G HDD
1 x Asus BD-ROM DVDR
1 x Hauppage HVR-2200 Tuner
Antec Fusion 430 Black Case
Windows Media Centre Remote

Software:
Windows Vista Home Premium
Movie Collector
MC Organizer
My TV
Free EPG Stream
MC Menu Customizer
MCE Standby Tool
MCE Buddy (converts DVR-MS recordings to H.264 and strips ads out)
FFDShow
Haali Media Splitter

Its a chore getting it all setup but once its done it very cool and easy to use. My wife can even schedule recording using the guide, kids can watch movies without having to insert disks etc. I've got around 200 movies stored on it, plus heaps of TV epps.

I've currently got it connected to my Sony 76cm CRT (1080i) but I'm looking to use the HDMI from the onboard and upgrade to a larger screen.

For those wondering on the HTPC, cost of setup was $1500 including all software and hardware. Took about 3hrs to get hardware in case, then about 3 days of mucking around to get software fully configured.

i just use my laptop over vga and dl anything i want to watch

You might not have any blurring, but when you sit a plasma next to it, it would look that way

If it is minimal enough that you don't see it unless you can side-by-side contrast with another TV, then does it matter?

LCD viewers become used to the traits of LCD, it doesn't make them any better, its just lowering of expectations.

Similar setup mass, but I went with a 6000+ for the cpu, and no Bluray Drive.

How have you found MCE buddy ? I found it was cutting out bits of shows after an add break

CRT kicks Plasma's ass.

Mongie bites are easy, yet fun!

media portal > wmce

Just went and scoped out JB's current offerings to get an idea of the various options based on what people have said so far; I think at this stage I'm leaning towards something like the Panasonic 70A which seems to have decent reviews, is relatively cheap and has a decent picture quality.

The high-end Sonys look really nice, but I am continuing with my moral high road and refusing to buy them. I think atm I want to go w/ something cheaper and less whizbang with a view to maybe upgrading again in a few years once the feeding frenzy of HD is over.

it hurt buying a sony product, but their tvs are really awesome, so i had to swallow my pride

your mum can swallow my pride, I sure as hell won't just to give sony more money so they can rootkit me!

I also felt like a dirty junkie returning to the filthy dealer, but the Bravia was too good to pass up :(

Edit: Anyone noticing a tendency of our bandana-loving overlord to embrace mum jokes lately? What's up with that?

HOW BOUT THIS JUST GO OUTSIDE AND DONT WATCH TV!!11@

ps i bought a sony kdlw3000 - couldnt be happier - also in the middle of building my htpc THIS SHIZZLE IS GONNA ROX!

Don't forget to check out http://hdtvprices.pbwiki.com/ to get a ballpark figure of what you ought to be able to negotiate on various TVs.

If anyone is on the northside around aspley/carseldine and is still after a TV then PM me if you want a good deal. Brother manages a store.

So I decided on the Panasonic 70A, went to JB to do a final check of all the monitors, asked the guy for a price for that + Xbox 360 + a few other bits and pieces. Got a decent price around the $2200 mark, stressed about it for a while (I hate spending money) and decided to go for it. They didn't have stock, so I asked when it could be delivered and the guy said Tuesday.

After I told him to make it happen he goes off and calls all the other JBs to find one of them - turns out noone has any left. They only have the one display unit left, which has been up for ~2 months - but they'd only give me another $40 off for the display unit.

So after finally making the decision I had to go home empty handed :( Turns out they're not getting any more of those 70As in, so I have to either find another store that has one of those models, or get a different TV altogether.

f*** jb anyway, they are a rip off;

clive peeters prices (in particular the kessles rd shop) were much better when i was checking out teevs

don't know if anyone mentioned this cause I am just jumping in here but post on digg last week speculates on lcd pirce war by sony from june. they have lost to much market share and will announce and introduce significant price cuts (in US) after june

Deep price cuts on hdtv: http://digg.com/tech_news/HDTV_s_Will_Get_Stupid_Cheap_Next_Month

I just reread, cuts are in may tieing in with the save-the-economy free-money Bush is handing out at the moment.

Sony cutting prices by say 50% would only bring it back to the field ... Sony is massively expensive.

eg. Sony 70" LCD ... au$70000 (interesting the same tv is half that price in the US .. gg Sony and their regionalised pricing bulls***).

So after finally making the decision I had to go home empty handed :( Turns out they're not getting any more of those 70As in, so I have to either find another store that has one of those models, or get a different TV altogether.

Man that sux. :( I'm sure you should be able to get it else where though, have you tried Wow sight and sounds etc?.

Nah I haven't tried anywhere else yet, I lost all my momentum and a bit busy for the rest of the week so will check it out next w/e

you can't use the 70" lcd as a yardstick for pricing though.

trog, the new 80 series will be out soon, either this month or early next month. the new panasonic models in everything, tv, recorders, etc are supposed to be out before the olympics, as people buy s*** for them, and panasonic are a major partner

as for whoever was talking about the pioneer panels earlier, yeah, they're stopping the current range, there'll be new models out, but not for ages. basically, they're starting in lcd but still going with plasma, but they'll be outsourcing the panels. they will still have their image processing, which is one of the most important factors in a tv. the new panels (panel only, not electronics) will be made by Sharp for the LCD's, and Matsus***a Corporation (panasonic) for their plasma's. the plasma's i imagine will be using panasonic's commercial panels, which are awesome

How have you found MCE buddy ? I found it was cutting out bits of shows after an add break

Sorry for not replying obes. I am using the Aggressive config for MCE Buddy (there was a new version a couple of weeks ago). It seems much better, was thinking about trying one of the paid commercial strippers to see if it was any better. The EPG is the thing that s***s me, well not so much the EPG but the fact that the networks refuse to stick to scheduled times....running 5minutes over here and there, really stuffs my scheduled recordings.

I got around that mass by upping the pre and post record to 10mins ... To go over 4mins you have to go into the individual series settings ... annoying

Unless you want to watch the footy show on thursday night. The f***** footy show for f*****s that shows earlier in the evening always fags it up and goes 30 mins over.

You would only know this by watching said "f*****" show........Ross!

No, I actually watch nightline as well which seems to be a reasonable news service.

Faggy show finishes at 11:00, nightline at 11:30 then footy show. QLD scheduling is different because QLD is full of fags

Unless of course foxtel's iq guide is wrong which is highly likely

Clearly you need to rent a house in Melbourne for the sole purpose of hooking up a DVR that records the AFL footy show as it airs in Victoria.

Then I might get to work on friday on time for once!

I think 4 weeks ago they actually chopped off the last few minutes of the footy show to switch to f***ing joey!