Overnight China bussed in thousands of Pro-China people from all over Australia. Busses from Brisbane, Newcastle, Melbourne and Sydney. Tens of thousands of supporters.
 
As I headed to the torch relay start point at 6AM this morning the Pro-China people had already setup at key intersections along the torch route. At Dickson, which won't see the torch till 10/11AM there was already at least 100 pro-china people camped out, chanting and waving chinese flags. The busses heading in made it seem like peak hour. Busses everywhere.
 
When we got to the lighting point there was easily 20,000 people there, almost all of them pro-China. They outnumber the few protestors probably 500:1. Whenever a small group of protestors walked by the crowd swarmed the barricade "one china one china" and threw bottles, flags, abuse and spat on them. I saw one protestor arrested (possibly for his own safety) and the crowd swarmed him and the police, chanting and hitting him over the top of the police.
 
The live reports on the news said that projectiles were being thrown between pro-tibet and pro-china crowds. At the start point this was totally false. It was only the pro china crowd as well as thugs walking along screaming foul language at the protestors and acting very intimidating.
 
As had been reported at other events like SanFran when I saw people being interviewed by the TV, a plain clothed man with professional camera and no media-badge was videoing both the interviewers and interviewee. When Pro-China people swarmed an arrested protestor to hurl abuse and spit the SBS reporter commented to her cameraman "they are very excited aren't they".. Hello! They are stopping police from doing their job and trying to hit someone that's been arrested and all you are saying, not even on camera, is 'they are excited'. How about commenting on how intimidating it all was for normal people who were there just to soak up the atmosphere? It was billed as a family event, come see the torch, free breakfast, watch the balloons launch, not "dodge a swarming mass of pro-chinese trying to spit on any dissenters"

it felt like we were in a foreign country or a scene from 1984 not on the lawns out front of old parliament house in Australia's capital city.

I heard a bit about this on the radio this morning; they mentioned a bit of tension and some arrests, but your post is certainly much more interesting!

When I heard them use the phrase "pro-china supporters" on the radio this morning I was momentarily confused, because I was thinking "who on earth would be pro-china for anything?" But then I guessed it sort of makes sense.

I am flabbergasted though that there were so many there.

Were most of the pro-China types actually Chinese people?

I watched it on Sunrise. China really are so full of themselves. I can't wait for them to go military on Taiwan and get the s*** kicked out of them by the US.

I think you need to move to the US infi.

War is about economy and trade. China could sink the US with out shooting a bullet.

we build for china.

I bet the Olympics committee is kicking themselves right now for sending the Games to a totalitarian communist regime. Guess they won't make that same mistake twice.

Yeah, what were they thinking? And now the French have pissed them off. oh noes.

I think you need to move to the US infi.

War is about economy and trade. China could sink the US with out shooting a bullet.

QFT

hello new world super power

Yes they were Chinese people (as best as I can tell)

The surge of Chinese was completely unanticipated by organisers.. there was a lot of security there, but for a crowd of 5000 not 20,000.

there was only two coffee stand, basically no other food, and the queue for the free sausages must have been at least 1 hour long, probably longer.

I heard a guy interviewed say he drove himself from sydney this morning to support china but he didn't know about the organised busses cause 'i don't read chinese'. so if it was advertised in chinese language newspapers, how didn't our government know that a foreign government was moving 20K people in to town?

when I get home tonight I may post photos & video, it really was amazing to watch the crowd.

I understand that protesting is more effective when its a popular issue, and already in everyones mind (i.e. pro-tibet protested at torch relays), however, the world has know for 4 years that China would be hosting the 2008 Olypics. I really cant recall any debate, protest, comment etc on this issue before now? Does anyone else?

I really cant recall any debate, protest, comment etc on this issue before now? Does anyone else?

It's simple, it's an easy opportunity to grab the lime lights. Why would you protest / raise issue 4 years ago when people will just forget (do you remember what major events in 2004? I don't) ? But do it closer to the game time it's much more visible because all the world's media will be on China.

But yeah it's all a mess...

a college that is stuck in town being swamped by the chinese had a chat with a group, 'I am foreign student. I come support china. I love china'.

'did you come down from sydney?'

'I am foreign student. I come support china. I love china'.

'there's a lot of people here!'

'I am foreign student. I come support china. I love china'.

3 times, the exact same response, so there's doubts whether they are actually even students and not just flown in from china specifically for the relay, since their english is so poor.

I was impressed by china bussing people from brissy and melbourne, but to fly them in from china just for the event this morning... if that is what has happened then WOW!

Like that woman who pulled out of the torch relay in protest. Article.

What an attention whore. She knew China was hosting the games when she accepted the spot and then pulls out.

3 times, the exact same response, so there's doubts whether they are actually even students and not just flown in from china specifically for the relay, since their english is so poor.

I was impressed by china bussing people from brissy and melbourne, but to fly them in from china just for the event this morning... if that is what has happened then WOW!

They probably are students, the overseas students at QUT and from what I've heard of from UQ can speak about 5 words of english, and often mispell their own names!

Classic story, a first year business exam last year, an international student received a 'negative mark'. She only wrote her name on the answer book, in the wrong fields and spelt it wrong. I know the tutor who marked it, he found it so funny he scanned it, i'll try find the .jpeg.

War is about economy and trade. China could sink the US with out shooting a bullet.

Mr Tom Clancy (nb: name used without permission of Ubisoft) would disagree with you there! His book "The Bear and the Dragon" is all about how the USA drives China into invading Russia when US industry goes into a boycott of Chinese-made products after a CNN reporter exposes their baby killing tendencies to US Joe Sixpack (seriously, that's what the book is about, in case you think I am making that s*** up).

Actually war generates economy and trade. It is a great way for an economically struggling country to inflate its way out of national debt. So that it would be right up the US's alley.

The chinese have alot of US assets and dollars, thanks to the massive poisitive Chinese trade balance, and even bigger negative US trade balance.

They could go all George Soros on the yanks.

I think you need to move to the US infi.

War is about economy and trade. China could sink the US with out shooting a bullet.

That's right - They could make all of the Chinese WoW players cancel their accounts and knock 7 million of Blizzard's players out in one hit. I mean, isn't WoW like one of the leading exports of the US currently? ;)

That relay is a joke, the amount of security and $$$$$$$$$$$$$ money, and city-wide lockdowns that have occurred. Police given the rights to detain and search anyone residing within the area of the relay, etc... all to protect one little flame that heaps of Australians don't want to see burning here.

Frankly I think a few politicians, police, and their families deserve to be hurt over this.

Actually war generates economy and trade. It is a great way for an economically struggling country to inflate its way out of national debt. So that it would be right up the US's alley.

broken window fallacy

inflate my friend, inflate.

also:

War is about economy and trade. China could sink the US with out shooting a bullet.

right now? not a chance. in 20-50 years, maybe. if china doesn't sink themselves first.

edit:

inflate my friend, inflate.

they can do that without a war, though i suppose that would provide a decent excuse for it

last edited by taggs at 12:48:23 24/Apr/08

Actually war generates economy and trade. It is a great way for an economically struggling country to inflate its way out of national debt. So that it would be right up the US's alley.

US National Debt under Bush

but they can do that without a war

it's a great pretense though in order to justify such negligent policy.

US National Debt under Bush

Trog, while I agree with you (and I'm an anti-republican democrat supporter), don't use that graph to make your point on that one - it makes you look really biased and proned to ignoring facts.
1. The graph doesn't account for inflation.
2. During those 'republican' and 'democrat' periods specified, there was an opposite congress. Guess who creates and approves the budgets in any year? Oh yeah :/

plus the fact that war is only a fraction of the US Government spending. which fraction are you going to attribute to the deficit?

well it's sexy to attribute it to war spending, but the deficit is just as equally caused by out of control health spending or crazy tax cuts.

I know who I will be rooting for in the olympics it is china. I love rooting for china, but don't we all.

Actually war generates economy and trade.

thats a myth.

Trog, while I agree with you (and I'm an anti-republican democrat supporter), don't use that graph to make your point on that one - it makes you look really biased and proned to ignoring facts.
1. The graph doesn't account for inflation.

Oh, right - I didn't consider that when looking at the jump from '01 to '02. It was probably inflation!

2. During those 'republican' and 'democrat' periods specified, there was an opposite congress. Guess who creates and approves the budgets in any year? Oh yeah :/

First of all, I don't see what this has to do with anything - I was merely supplying evidence to counter infi's ridiculous-sounding proposition that war is good for economy. I am not sure why it makes me look biased; I'm just providing numbers to counter a point.

The budget for military spending has been justified by the constant threat of terrorism and the justification that the war in Iraq is helping keep Americans safe from terror. The flames of this - lets call it what it is - bulls*** threat have been fueled by Bush and his war-loving cronies, supported by the likes of Haliburton and co that are shamelessly war profiteering.

I don't know much about economics, but it seems to me like war is generating national debt which is simply enriching American corporations at the expense of the tax payer and the rest of the US economy.

plus the fact that war is only a fraction of the US Government spending. which fraction are you going to attribute to the deficit?

Sorry, I thought war was good for the economy? What difference does it make what fraction? If it was good for the economy, wouldn't one assume that national debt would DECREASE?

I was merely supplying evidence to counter infi's ridiculous-sounding proposition that war is good for economy.

no dude, war can stimulate growth but to say it's good for the economy the 'broken window' fallacy needs to be taken into account. i'm sure there's a bunch on that on wikipedia or something.

what infi is saying is that war provides a nice excuse for governments to inflate their currency, meaning that their currency is worth less, and hence the nominal value of their debt (which would have been issued in the local currency) is less - hence lessening the real value of their debt.

effectively inflating out of debt is a tax on the population as their real incomes decrease in order to lower the real debt of the government.

this hasn't occurred in the US as like most developed countries it undertakes active inflation targetting.

no dude, war can stimulate growth

noones saying it cant

i'm just pointing that out because noone said that 'war is good for the economy' either. you've taken a bit of a leap with what infi has said.

i never said war is good for an economy or creates wealth. i said it can grow an economy through inflation.

but then again, that's economic technobabble for you. i understand your point.

secondly, war doesn't generate national debt in and of itself. EXPENDITURE EXCEEDING INCOME generates debt. a country with strong revenues (tax growth) can wage as much war as they want, or invest in hospitals or universities or whatever.

war does not create debt, excessive expenditure creates debt.

a country with strong revenues (tax growth) can wage as much war as they want, or invest in hospitals or universities or whatever.

God bless the red, white and blue.

I get the feeling we are going to be China's bitch whether we like it or not.

The plain clothed non-media guy filming the interesting interview being done by SBS, like many they did that day, about how they love China and how they came their to support China

http://image.bayimg.com/fajogaabh.jpg

The plain clothed man looked around to see what i was doing when someone told him (in chinese) that i was pointing at him

http://image.bayimg.com/fajojaabh.jpg

Pro-China mob swarm police officers arresting a protestors

http://image.bayimg.com/fajokaabh.jpg

Police guarding the prison van

http://image.bayimg.com/fajolaabh.jpg

The whole contingent from GetUp!. I suspect they managed to attract so few of their base because 'Human Rights' in China doesn't have much of an anti-American angle.

http://image.bayimg.com/fajonaabh.jpg

Look at the emptiness near the fence. There's no one there. About 1 minute after i took that photo a handful of pro-tibet people came along the road from the left. I'm trying to up the video now.. but they basically just swarm that entire fence

http://image.bayimg.com/fajopaabh.jpg

Here they come, that's pretty much all of them. Fence is now full of screaming Chinese.

http://image.bayimg.com/gajoaaabh.jpg


last edited by natslovR at 21:12:27 24/Apr/08

It came out a bit too dark

man this thread

i just wanna play generals so bad right now

why dont they run over tehm with a tank??

i just wanna play generals so bad right now

i was just thinking the same thing

infantry general vs airforce general, yankees getting cut down

secondly, war doesn't generate national debt in and of itself. EXPENDITURE EXCEEDING INCOME generates debt. a country with strong revenues (tax growth) can wage as much war as they want, or invest in hospitals or universities or whatever.

Well, yeh, but I don't think there's any argument that massive security/war spending has contributed significantly to the national debt.

I can't believe that investing in War would be better for a country than investing in the other things you mentioned. Unless of course you're conquering and pillaging and importing all the good stuff :)

Unless of course you're securing your country's future energy needs by occupying another country :)

fixed

china sends in the clowns

Let’s summarise: according to our Government, the Chinese did not ask to send military guards, and the guards who actually did arrive would not leave the bus, and the ones who did leave the bus would not guard the flame. Which, ahem, they did as well.

trogg - in ww2 the % of US gdp spent on the war was around 130% (ww1 was around 35%) - this is a situation when war simulates the ecomony - for iraq the % of GDP spent is under 0.4%

the only people making money are profiteers as you say.. the rest of the economy suffers because of rising oil prices... sometimes who your fighting is more important then how big the fight is

but the spending on this was is negligable compared to the US economy

for iraq the % of GDP spent is under 0.4%

iraq is only a teeny tiny part of the war on terror.

Really the true financial cost of it I think will never be known, but you only have to look at all the various things being done under the guise of "saving us from terrorists"