The Courier Mail reports today a proposal to ban drivers on their provision license from driving V8 or performance modified vehicles.

All I can say is "s*** they are hitting then young driver bandwagon hard over the past few months".

looks like a stock dunnydore from the pictures how in the name of god is that high powered next thing they will be banning performance shops TARDS...driver training at high school is the answer IMHO.

thang kodness this doesnt affect advanced drivers like myself

also, isnt this like way old news?!
http://qgl.ausforums.com/?agn=thread&id=2459831

last edited by Spook at 12:28:36 30/Dec/06

I support this ban 110%.

Damn noobs can wait till they're 20/21 to drive them.

hate to say a toad a so but a f***in toad a so

this wouldnt bother me

im more concerned about not being able to drive after 10pm sort of bans

ive done my adv driver training course

Power:weight restriction or it's useless political bs.

who died when her boyfriend's high-powered car crashed in May.

The picture shows a pretty wrecked stock looking VN, doesn't even have mags, has standard width tyres, Doubt it's lowered... I doubt with all that not done it's not stock under the bonnet.

Yeah... totally High Powered, damn those stock factory family cars.

last edited by Loki at 12:45:20 30/Dec/06

I've got my opens and couldn't care less, so i say, bring in the ban!

Do P platers have to wear P plates yet??? Put P plates on and keep it under 80 like they do in NSW...

I think the p plate thing is coming in as well.

I reckon they should all be limited to 4 cyclinders.

tradies need more than 4cyls

this doesn't affect current P platers does it?

paveway, f*** no

i think there is an exception for young tradies. they can have v8's. hahahah

Im all for a power/weight ratio ban, even some kind of hi-po ban is better than nothing I guess.

P plater 80km/h limit = retarded, theres enough dongs that can't drive near the posted speed already. I don't want anymore tards holding everyone up.

Nothing s***s me more than a slow dong in both the left and right lane both doing under the limit >.<

yeah really f***ing grinds me too rubba

P plater 80km/h limit = retarded, theres enough dongs that can't drive near the posted speed already. I don't want anymore tards holding everyone up.

What that makes no sense? How could you drive on the highway :S

P platers restricted to 80 is dumb and unsafe on highways. As for power/weight limit i'm all for it.

From the comments page:

As a high-powered car driver of the next five or six years, I personally think that the government has made a stupid decision. It's not all of us that make those idiotic mistakes of driving around at huge speeds then regretting it after we've killed someone. Those who do just ruin driving for the rest of us. Remember, that it's the majority of us who have the commonsense not to do these things. The government should do something else about it like give the older students - like year 11 & 12 - some program that teaches them what's right and wrong on the road.
Posted by: Tom Lilley of 158 White St, Graceville, Brisbane 12:02pm today

f***ing lol.

i'm happy as long as they don't ban cars from powerful drivers

... or something

I've only driven 4 cylinder cars.. but then again, I HAVE A BIG PENIS!

lol

touche

it won't change the road toll anyway

If they limited them to 80km/hr that would just bring on road rage, i know i get pissed when i'm blocked on the highway by someone doing much less then the limit.

I drive really slow in the ultra fast lane.

my first car was a holden gemini. It was completely stock and could get very sideways and go 150 on the highway, it was capable of killing me & others around I say we also ban geminis, and how about exels oh and pulsars lets ban them too. f*** it lets just ban all cars completely and then at least the bloody ozone layer might start to heal.

wankers.

edit: those who say driver training programs will solve it are talking out of their arse as well. When I was young I knew it was wrong to speed and so does everyone else they just choose to ignore it because young people don't bother thinking of consequences as older people do. They get all juiced up by their mates being with them egging them on to go faster. Driver training will only serve to reinforce their ego and make them think they can actually handle the extra speed & encourage them to do it even more.

last edited by whoop at 14:33:41 30/Dec/06

lol v8's

who can even afford to fill a v8 nowerdays anyway?

Not everybody is a dole bludger like you maybe?

^ ?

make it frmo jan 1..not july 1..

The sooner the better.

^ ?

Yeah I dunno, it was one of my lesser attempts at a troll , nothing personal.

that would require them to actually get their ass into gear german....

learner motorcyclists are limited to 250 cc and cant carry a pillion.. i think this should go dbl for fgts in hooncars who have a greater chance to kill/maim more ppl cause they dont understand the risks and are trying to impress there fgt friends

imho learner car drivers should be limited to a car no bigger then 1500cc and not be allowed to carry any passangers for 2 years.. then they should resit a licence test to get an open drivers licence which should include a mandatory advanced defensive driver course

or at least they should do what motorcyclists are forced to do.. if you want insurance you must produce proof of completing an advanced driving course

too many retards get hotted up fgt cars and go out and kill them selves and 3-4 more ppl in the car + the ppl in the car they hit

cars are a means of transport on the roads.. if you want to be a hoon.. go buy a CAMS licence and race at a track or rally course.. keep the streets free of this s***

the more restrictions on learner drivers the better imo

else it should be a 1 strike and your out rule.. once you get your first ticket (whilst on your p's) you get banned from driving for 3 years driving whilst disqualified should = 12 months gaol

I know fast cars are harder to control for inexperienced drivers but if some c*** wants to speed you can do that in an echo or whatever p-o-s.

It's a good start
I think it would be better if it was based on kilowatts rather than such abstract classifications or even as was already mentioned, a power/weight ratio.

yeah exactly, or any V6 early 90's commodore is plenty enough power and s*** suspension and brakes to get yourself f***ed up on

sounds silly, needs to be power:weight or its stupid. also sounds pretty hard to enforce.

courier mail had a list of cars that would be banned, but srsly how many p-platers are driving nissan 350z's, evo's, wrx's or SS commodores ffs?!

imho learner car drivers should be limited to a car no bigger then 1500cc and not be allowed to carry any passangers for 2 years.

Learner drivers are required to have a full licence holder present in their vehicle, how would banning a LEARNER driver from carrying another person help them learn how to drive? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yeah lets stick someone who has never driven before behind the wheel.... alone.....BRILLIANT.

"Ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars" - Peter Brock

somehow i think he meant P platers, who are.. still learning..

OBVIOUSLY

but how can you justify that someone is a better driver than someone else simply because of their age.

statistics?

edit: those who say driver training programs will solve it are talking out of their arse as well. When I was young I knew it was wrong to speed and so does everyone else they just choose to ignore it because young people don't bother thinking of consequences as older people do. They get all juiced up by their mates being with them egging them on to go faster. Driver training will only serve to reinforce their ego and make them think they can actually handle the extra speed & encourage them to do it even more.

the idea of the driver training programs are not to teach you how to speed better, they are too teach you what limitations your car has, and how to avoid being in a situation which may cause an accident. It hasn't saved me from any situations besides stopping non-abs cars quicker in wet conditions, but the info stuck in the back my head will help me out when I need it. Knowing how the car is in wet conditions also allows me to anticipate what will happen when driving in the wet and how to be more careful.
I went there with no speeding fines, one year later, still no speeding fines - mainly because I don’t speed. Some of my friends don't like to drive with me because I don't travel at the speeds they are used to, but then again, most of my friends have been fined or lost their licenses for speeding or stupid driving.

What I am most unhappy about, is how some cock head drivers ruin it for all the other young drivers.

imho learner car drivers should be limited to a car no bigger then 1500cc and not be allowed to carry any passangers for 2 years.. then they should resit a licence test to get an open drivers licence which should include a mandatory advanced defensive driver course

By learner driver you mean p plater? I wouldn’t have a problem driving a car that’s less than 1500cc (mine probably is? I wouldn’t know), and I wouldn't mind having to resit a license test (but while talking about a resit, maybe open drivers should be made to do them too.. I’ve seen a lot of open drivers who have been in accidents (my dad used to be in the accident investigation squad and made me look @ photos of people after they got f***ed up from doing stupid s***), and from some people I know who have an open license, they are no f***ing better then they were on their P's.. if you are going to be a c******* in the car, you will continue to do it from L to P to O until something goes wrong.. ive rarely seen anyone just grow out of it). I wouldn’t even mind doing the defensive driver course again - but what would bug me a lot is not being able to carry passengers, I have friends/family/myself in situations where:
-you car pool to work
-your little brothers and sisters need to be taken to school after you parents have gone to work & picked up before they get back.
-your little non licensed brother/sister needs to be dropped off to their work
-you want to go out with a group of 10 friends, but don't want to take 10 cars because that would be f***ing stupid?
-your friends don't have licenses and need a lift somewhere/or just need a lift somewhere because they cant take a car (maybe their car is being fixed, or they will be drinking and need a sobar driver,etc)
-your older brother/sister ask you to pick them up because they are (or you go out with them and they get) drunk.. you can't exactly make them drive home
-doesnt have to be brother/sister in any of these situations, it could be gf/bf/parent/anyone. I mean imagine this.. 2 p plate 19yr olds who are dating decide to go out for a date, but one can't pickup the other, because they can't drive passangers around.. so they either have to take a taxi, or drive seperately to get to their date.

And for anyone who says ‘you can take a taxi/public transport for all of the above’ then what’s the point of even having a f***ing license or a car? + Most public transport is extremely limited, and Taxis are too expensive.

There are countless unavoidable situations which can not rely on an open driver or public transport to be around all the time where we drive each other around.. stopping a driver from having passengers is just a f***ing stupid idea, its the idiot drivers who need to be restricted from being c*******s, not everyone else.

else it should be a 1 strike and your out rule.. once you get your first ticket (whilst on your p's) you get banned from driving for 3 years driving whilst disqualified should = 12 months gaol

firstly I noticed you said ‘whilst on your P’s’ – why single out P platers? Why not punish open drivers for speeding/other traffic offenses in the same way? And A 3 year ban would just cause more & more people to break the law.

but how can you justify that someone is a better driver than someone else simply because of their age.

It didn't seem to matter to anyone about the age a few weeks ago when the '_!_!_!_LEARNER_!_!_!_ DRIVER CAUGHT DOING 193KMH' was 20yrs old, old enough to already have an open license.



As for the f***tard parents in the courier mail, maybe they should have assessed their daughter's bf's driving ability before letting him take her out. I've never met a gf's parents who have just simply said 'yea, take our daughter out'.. they always ask me questions like 'had any speeding tickets? accidents?', s*** like that. If I was the parents and saw that he was driving a commodore that would’ve been enough to raise suspicion about his driving ability.

post more

thats one thing going to a couple of track days has taught me, the limits of my car and when i choose to drive fast, whether it be a touge run through a mountain or whatever

i know the limits of my car

last edited by paveway at 19:36:55 30/Dec/06

tldr

i know the limits of my car

That will be a great epitaph.

I'm still pretty young (Ripe age of 23) so I actually know quite a few people from both groups....

Just as many bad drivers in one group as the other.
Well more on their opens actually, simply because I know more open drivers though.

Any rules should to be improve driving accross the board. Not just as small percentage of drivers.

I'm on my Opens and Drive a 4wd (Jeep Wrangler, not a big OMGWTF BABY KILLER 4wd like Jim).

Sort of related, I see targeting P platers just as stupid as programs like ACA targeting 4wd drivers.

yeah my gf's mum is the most unconfident driver, it's like drive with a learning at the wheel

As a much "older" driver... I have seen a lot of younger people drive much more responsibly than older drivers... Whatever new rules they bring in though, it should be done sooner rather than later.

hey you guys what is grey?



a melted penguin hahaha

i know the limits of my car

sounds like "I left enough distance, but it wasn't sufficient to stop" to me.

what kills P-platers is over-confidence, not over-powering. that said, sucks to be a p-plater.

well i haven't crashed into anyone have i

no doubt s*** can and will happen, all i'm saying is i have a bit more idea about my car than johnny-18-year old that just bought his VN commodore and drives it like he's driving bathurst

Not while you were in the car you havent.

haha touche

when i see someone tailgating a guy in the the right lane when it's signed like 80km/hour and im in the left lane i catch up to the dude in front and create a speed enforcement wall and frustrate the tailgating fag0t

my point is there is already restrictions to for motorcyclists including no carry pillions and an engine size limit..

i'm targeting p platers because they are the fag f***s who need to have good driving habits drilled into there brains

-you car pool to work
-your little brothers and sisters need to be taken to school after you parents have gone to work & picked up before they get back.
-your little non licensed brother/sister needs to be dropped off to their work
-you want to go out with a group of 10 friends, but don't want to take 10 cars because that would be f***ing stupid?
-your friends don't have licenses and need a lift somewhere/or just need a lift somewhere because they cant take a car (maybe their car is being fixed, or they will be drinking and need a sobar driver,etc)
-your older brother/sister ask you to pick them up because they are (or you go out with them and they get) drunk.. you can't exactly make them drive home
-doesnt have to be brother/sister in any of these situations, it could be gf/bf/parent/anyone. I mean imagine this.. 2 p plate 19yr olds who are dating decide to go out for a date, but one can't pickup the other, because they can't drive passangers around.. so they either have to take a taxi, or drive seperately to get to their date.

these are most of the main reasons ppl should not be driving when they are learning...

your going to trust your siblings to an inexperianced driver? taking drunk friends around because your too broke? tell the familys of the killed innocent ppl these fgts kill because they are inexperianced and over confident and think that driving is a right they have...

driving is a privilage which needs to be earned.. not a right of every retard gimmaazx3003inchpipeloweredsuspensionbigspeakers f***stain fresh out of school

I feel compelled to shine the light on this situation for what it is.

First of all driver training programs offer information and experiences which can be used for good or bad purposes.

Driver training programs are a good idea, at least they can have some impact on preventing crashes and deaths.

As for power restrictions, I do not agree with this it will not change anything, anything with enough moving speed is a danger a car going 40km/hr into a home is still dangerous you can't ban danger, danger will always emerge. If you want to do a power restriction it should not be done by engine size simply put it should be done by the capacity of the engine e.g 200kw and based at the wheel. But really this idea is impracticle.

-you want to go out with a group of 10 friends, but don't want to take 10 cars because that would be f***ing stupid?

or you could take 10 cars cause that would be f***ing cool

note: 100rwkw rule must apply

e.g 200kw and based at the wheel. But really this idea is impracticle.

that could be cool, yeah you're in trouble with the cops but you get a free dyno run

200rwkw is pretty intense, more like 100

last edited by paveway at 20:41:31 30/Dec/06

the power ratings is done on factory outputs isn't it?

Near 200kw is common for 6 cylinder vehicles.

modified, yes

yeah pretty damn modified

it dosent even matter because most cars these days can still reach over 160km/h even if they are 4 bangers. I have to say the this set of rules still wont change the amount of deaths on the road.

It's not how fast you drive a fast car, it's how you drive fast car fast.

i live my life 1/4 mile at a time

it dosent even matter because most cars these days can still reach over 160km/h even if they are 4 bangers

it's a start man. 4 bangers can pull-up: it's not just about the vehicles ability to accelerate or top speed


can you remember the first time you drove a 6 or 8 cylinder in the wet and realised you needed your tyres replaced? could you imagine the average 18yr n00b going thru the same? try the same adding drugs/alcohol/being tired/overworked. not everyone has fantasic survival instincts, which is something the 'powers that be' have to take into consideration when making these laws... this should have been bought in long, long ago - but like everything in our 'democracy', it takes someone in power (or related to them) to suffer a tragic personal loss before they give two s***s enough to get some action.


btw - this should go double for 4x4s.


personally - methinks it's an awesome idea. only if I was towing a boat I'd have a more powerful car. Likewise with 4x's if I saw 4x4 action every weekend.


last edited by koopz at 22:01:25 30/Dec/06

4 bangers can pull-up: it's not just about the vehicles ability to accelerate

my old '97 1.6l pulsar had some fairly average brakes on it. it had drums on the rear, no ABS, and after a casual trip down mt tamborine it suffered from MASSIVE fade at the bottom.

my car prior to that was an '85 non-turbo cordia which had less power than the pulsar. I thankfully never got to find out whether it suffered from brake fade or not, but it also had drum brakes on the rear and had a fantastic tendency to lock the rears under any sort of hard braking. scares the s*** out of everyone else on the road when you come to a stop at a 45 degree angle.

so 4-bangers can still be bad in terms of braking, even when they only have about 1000kgs to pull up.

also, given that the cordia was my first car so I had almost zero experience at driving, I think the only reason why I didn't crash the thing thanks to its handbrake-like braking tendencies was because I first discovered them during a course at Mt Cotton, which my parents sent me to for my 18th birthday. On the wet braking tests I learned a hell of a lot about how to brake properly in just trying to stop the thing swapping ends. There was probably at least a dozen times in my first 3 years of driving where what I learned during that course helped me from putting that thing into a gutter and/or pole, mostly through no fault of my own.

So I am a definite believer in proper training and plenty of experience being the most important things for young drivers. Power limits are all well and good, but even in a 10-20 year old sub-2.0l 4 cylinder fwd you can do some stupid s***.

oh, here's a funny story I just remembered...

when I did my driving test (way back when dinosaurs weren't just limited to zoos) it was raining pretty hard. I did the test in the driving school's car and my instructor told me on the way there that they wouldn't make me do an emergency brake test because of the weather. On the way home from the test driving my mum's VN commodore a dog ran out in front of me and I instinctively hit the brakes, pulling the car up fairly well given the conditions.

What's the point in not testing new drivers on such a crucial skill just because it's wet, when that's when you're probably most likely to need it? I know there's probably risks involved in testing them on it (eg, they lock up the brakes and slide off into something), but it seemed stupid to me at the time, and still seems stupid to me now.

(fyi no dogs were harmed in making this story)

What's the point in not testing new drivers on such a crucial skill just because it's wet, when that's when you're probably most likely to need it? I know there's probably risks involved in testing them on it (eg, they lock up the brakes and slide off into something), but it seemed stupid to me at the time, and still seems stupid to me now.

I couldn't agree more - in my time in Tassie I learned to handle a car well simply because driving thru snowfields every weekend was a regular thing (and panel repair is bloody expensive). Up here the closest you'd get to that would be going 4x4 out bush in the rain or on a beach :/

I decided to buy our Falcon one (rare and rainy) day after a 40-odd yr old bloke ran into the Mrs' car while she was out shopping with our newborns. I can see why guys buy their wives overpriced 4x4s. When the dollars allow - I'm doing the exact same thing. Funny, I can't get it thru her her why she should get a manual licence or do a driving course


:/


*slaps forhead*



last edited by koopz at 23:04:09 30/Dec/06

hmm this is an interesting one.

i have only ever driven a V8 once - a VS HSV Clubsport, 150ks, stock as a rock. 185kw.

It stopped up on a 50c coin. They weigh roughly 1600kgs.

One of the cars i drive for work is a BF (mk 1) Falcon. 190kw. They weigh about 1750kgs (from memory).

Takes longer to stop than a council bus it seems.

I don't know about this debate, i'm sitting on the fence.

Lets face it, you can kill yourself in any car. most cars can do well in excess of 160kmh.

The stat in the courier mail talked about a higher percentage of accidents for young people driving eights as apposed to non eights. Now the issue is just going to be moved to big sixes or the like.


The bottom line is, no problem is being solved, only moved.

re the free dyno test LOL Paveway! Reduce your car to 199kw and beef up the torque curve & shorten the gear ratios!!

Yeah it's interesting some small cars have s***e brakes/braking ability while the BF Falcon mentioned above had worse brakes than a 10 year old HSV. Sure it can cost up to 10k to upgrade brake packages/options, but anything that can save your life is worth it.

Who was the person with the 1980s Cordia? Was it a manual or auto? Freaking terrible to get brake fade going down one (albeit large) slope. Is this mountain descent steeper/longer than coming back from Toowoomba? If not then that is just appalling.

Also, the new Camry has 200kw at the engine. This is substantially more than most 1990s HSVs (160/165/185/215). New Falcon is ~190kw and commodore's are 175 or 195. Cars are only gonna get more powerful (with *smaller* engines!) however are new drivers going to get better? Something needs to be done...

I don't know about this debate, i'm sitting on the fence

spend a winter down @ Threadbo. It's really not a bad idea eh - lots of snowboarding (or skiing if you're gay), and you'll learn whether your car's running gear can work to your benefit or detremit. It might get expensive, but at least you'll know why ya invest the cash into a decent 4x4 :)

One of the cars i drive for work is a BF (mk 1) Falcon. 190kw. They weigh about 1750kgs (from memory).

Takes longer to stop than a council bus it seems

yer what a bitch. After seeing all those cars miss the walls @ Bathurst @ 200km an hour you'd think all cars could do that :(

Question to all the guys who have done a defensive driving course:

I'm getting a new car for my 21st in january, and it is on the more powerful side as far as performance goes than to what i am used to.. Anyways, was the course worth it in your opinion? Did you get alot out of it?

I don't get these 4x4 comments koopz, hard to tell if you're dissing them or rating them :)

I'm 34 and drive around in a lifted nissan patrol which dwarfs everything except F-250's. It's a 3.0 4 banger turbo diesel tugging around 4tonne gvm so doesn't accelerate very quick. Off-road I cut fooly sik maaaate but on bitumen I treat it and drive it for what it is - a truck, not a car.

I'm 34 and drive around in a lifted nissan patrol which dwarfs everything except F-250's. It's a 3.0 4 banger turbo diesel tugging around 4tonne gvm so doesn't accelerate very quick. Off-road I cut fooly sik maaaate but on bitumen I treat it and drive it for what it is - a truck, not a car.)

you're a parent - lives depend on you.


the upside on going on a trip with blokes like my Dad and yourself is knowing that if the s*** hits the fan, your chances are better than average. This is kinda off subject.


a 4x4 rates for me - pretty much because you can do the same (and more) in less time in the snow. for me - this used to mean making it back to work on Sunday, or losing my job for striking out for the 3rd time with the boss. it's a personal thing pretty much. either way - awesome weekend + snow = my best mates crappy old Landcruiser. jesus - the number of times he just took me back up the mountain so I could get my pos Ford Escort back out a few days after a blizzard... that mateship for ya :)

I don't get these 4x4 comments koopz, hard to tell if you're dissing them or rating them :)

hey I missed that bit - in a perfect world where fuel cost next to sweet-fa, we'd all have 2 4x4's sitting in the driveway.


actually there's a thought - come the day I haveto teach my daughter to drive, I could prolly pick her up an old 4x4 really, really cheap! I could teach her to drive and feel semi-safe!! WIN-WIN !!

can you remember the first time you drove a 6 or 8 cylinder in the wet and realised you needed your tyres replaced? could you imagine the average 18yr n00b going thru the same?

Hahaha, kids shouldn't have v8's in the wet, period, they are ridiculous regardless of tyres, the extremely low-rev torque makes accidental over-power incredibly easy compared to an engine that creates it's torque at high revs.

Is there any reason a 17 year old should be driving a car like that? f*** and NO, it's a disaster waiting.

You gotta start somewhere.
Lol cars!

Judging by the people in this thread who disagree, this just might be a good idea.

Who was the person with the 1980s Cordia? Was it a manual or auto? Freaking terrible to get brake fade going down one (albeit large) slope. Is this mountain descent steeper/longer than coming back from Toowoomba? If not then that is just appalling.

That was me. It was a non-turbo manual.
The brake fade was in the pulsar tho, going down the eastern side of Mt Tamborine. The road pretty much goes straight down the side of the mountain. I knew it was a steep slope all the way, so I used the gears and kept the speed down as much as I could, but they were still gone at the bottom.

Question to all the guys who have done a defensive driving course:

I'm getting a new car for my 21st in january, and it is on the more powerful side as far as performance goes than to what i am used to.. Anyways, was the course worth it in your opinion? Did you get alot out of it?

I got heaps out of it. You have a ball, but learn a lot about car control and just how fast things can go from fun to "oh f***!". You also learn a LOT about your car and any nasty tendencies it has.

After chatting to an acquaintance of mine who runs a rental car company something that he mentioned was that the component that would get replaced all the time is brake pads. He said that allot of drivers tended to not use engine braking when going down the mountain roads in automatics, and rode the brakes all the way down the hill.

Now when I was in Australia getting driving lessons with several different company’s I wasn’t even told what engine braking was when driving an automatic, it wasn’t until a friend of mine was driving down one of the mountain roads that he started doing it. And it sparked my curiosity, which got me thinking about other driving conditions that I didn’t come across back home that hadn’t prepare me for driving on some of the roads here.

yeah I can count on one hand the number of times I have to actually use the brakes driving 80-odd k's from hillcrest to taringa to and from work each day

heh I was showing blahnana my last service sheet for the patrol where they wrote 'as new' for the brakes. the wiseass said they shoulda written "as 500,000" for everything else ;)

My highschool snagged a deal for the seniors who had their L's and P's a Heavily discounted DD course (this was 2001). We got to fang around in brand new Nissan Pulsars and do wet braking/evasive swerving around big foam blocks etc.

Obviously doing it in your own car would be way more beneficial but seeing most of us didn't have cars just yet it was better than nothing.


I actually got a lot out of that and would def recommend it to all newb drivers - it should be a compulsary part of the learning process imo.
I also learnt a buttload at my Q-Ride course. Even if you only have a small interest in motorcycles I would also highly recommend doing it. Not only was it fantastic fun you learn a LOT about smart roadcraft and general road awareness. Only downside to that is its fairly expensive.

last edited by rubba-chikin at 12:13:52 31/Dec/06

dd courses are a waste of time for learners or even p-platers

you don't learn enough in a half day to be able to do anything safer in an situation where the car is out of shape and all it does is give the drivers more confidence when they are already over-confident. dd courses don't make safer drivers.

Now when I was in Australia getting driving lessons with several different company’s I wasn’t even told what engine braking was when driving an automatic, it wasn’t until a friend of mine was driving down one of the mountain roads that he started doing it. And it sparked my curiosity, which got me thinking about other driving conditions that I didn’t come across back home that hadn’t prepare me for driving on some of the roads here.

Errr, whats engine braking?

^^^^
take away that man's licence plz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

nF it depends on how much you parents/whoever teaches you to drive actually teaches you. Getting a license these days is far too easy.

I'd reckon there'd be s***loads out there that aren't even taught correct braking techniques etc. How to control/get out of a skid if you get into one. Most common nube mistake is to freak out and push that pedal harder... bad. Sure that matters less with ABS but theres plenty of old shibox first cars out there that won't have it.
That alone are easily worth it IMO.

Best way is to just take your car out to do a skidpan day or whatever and just throw it around and see what happens and try different approaches to see what that changes.

dd courses are a waste of time for learners or even p-platers

you don't learn enough in a half day to be able to do anything safer in an situation where the car is out of shape and all it does is give the drivers more confidence when they are already over-confident. dd courses don't make safer drivers.

i disagree, i went in without much confidence in driving, and came out knowing how easy it is to actually loose it in my car.. before i went in there i didnt even know what ABS did, or how to slow down gradually in an emergency instead of locking the brakes, something i was never taught during driving lessons. Even with the simple swerving techiques, attemping them at high speeds gave me a new outlook on what would happen if i was in an emergency and needed to swerve..

my dad used to do teach the courses @ mt cotton occasionally on weekends, and said that althoguh you would expect mainly young people to be over confident & cocky, it is most usually the old/er ones who have been on the road longer who think they are masters at driving and come un-done. He says that most of the young people who go there actually want to learn something new, and there are rarely cocky ones who are over-confident. When i went i saw this, one guy was sent there because of a court order for having too many traffic offences, and he wouldve been about 30, and didn't seem to care what everyone had to say and may as well have not been there. There was also a 40yr~ old there who was talking to the one first mentioned all day with about the same attitude, but he was in there to do it for his work.

the point i was making is half a day at a skidpan isn't going to change your instincts. when s*** happens one-off training goes out the window and its all instinct. when you have an instructor next to you telling you to swerve around a stryofoam person its completely different to when you are driving home at 11 at night and a dog runs out from behind a parked car.

its not a solution at all, its putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. if you teach people to drive safer 99.999% of the time and they will not get into situations that require them to perform specific actions the 0.001% of the time. these courses should teach a more proactive point of view, rather than a reactive. teach about the dangers of driving tired, driving on s*** tyres (not just bald ones), awareness of road hazards, etc etc.

knowing how to stop a car in a straight line in the wet won't help at all if the driver is driving too tired to be notice the stop sign up ahead. knowing how to swerve on a skidpan won't save someones life if they are doing 40km/h over the speed limit. defensive driver training is bulls***.

ABS and AWD were two factors that influenced me when I purchase my car over here, 1990 Subaru Legacy GT 2.0 which performs fantastically in the winter conditions here.

Personally I find purchasing a car suitable to the driving conditions a better choice rather than purchasing something based solely on performance.

When I was living in Australia out at Jimboomba I wouldn't have even looked twice at anything under a V6 this came down to my personal preference based on circumstance, where I felt that a larger car could cope with the longer drives especially with air conditioning running 90% of the time in addition to towing a trailer around on the odd occasion.

In some way's I think that restricting the choices which younger have when driving particular vehicles is a good thing.

However that same argument could be applied to the post menstrual woman that would nearly run me when I would be walking home from work in Land Cruisers when I was living down the road from Clayfield College. Because they believe that their children are safer when driving in that particular type of vehicle.

its completely different to when you are driving home at 11 at night and a dog runs out from behind a parked car.

Why the hell would you swerve?
Mind you, I would stop an reverse back over it to make sure it's dead.

when s*** happens one-off training goes out the window and its all instinct. when you have an instructor next to you telling you to swerve around a stryofoam person its completely different to when you are driving home at 11 at night and a dog runs out from behind a parked car.

true, at first anyway. you might not see instant results, and you might not see any noticeable result at all in some people

you can train/change instinct though, and some people will come out of a half-day course and continue to think about what they learnt while driving in the future, resulting in varying degrees of change in their instinct

knowing how to stop a car in a straight line in the wet won't help at all if the driver is driving too tired to be notice the stop sign up ahead. knowing how to swerve on a skidpan won't save someones life if they are doing 40km/h over the speed limit. defensive driver training is bulls***.

Driving while tired or doing 40kph over the limit isn't defensive driving in the first place though. Someone choosing to apply principles of defensive driving would try and avoid putting themselves in those situations in the first place, surely.

My opinion is that defensive driver training isn't bulls*** at all, it's totally worthwhile. I reckon any education on driving responsibly is worthwhile.

nF is right. My GF as part of her honors degree in psychology did some social behaviour thingies and it found that DD courses work for females but not for males.

Reason is that males go OMG!ICANFULLYSIKDRIFTNOW and proceed to fully sik drift themselves into a power pole.

Only way IMO to have better drivers is annual license renewals that include a driving test and more severe penalities for offenses.

neff your a f***ing retard, instinct does not rule and takeover everything, i've been in situations where i was very conscious of my braking because i knew the wheels would lock up if i pressed to hard.

i am not really in favour of DD courses. nothing beats on the road hours. young drivers just have to get out on the road and drive safely for a significant period of time, in a car that is suited to their capacity to process distances and make judgments.

as with everything you can't beat experience. a DD course will not turn a young driver into a good driver - only experience will.

and we should confiscate the carsof those who don't drive responsibly.

neff your a f***ing retard, instinct does not rule and takeover everything, i've been in situations where i was very conscious of my braking because i knew the wheels would lock up if i pressed to hard.

awesome story man, i take it all back

ahah nf

ticcles, that is seriously dodgy psychology, or at best, grossly generalised

as with everything you can't beat experience. a DD course will not turn a young driver into a good driver - only experience will.

I dunno if anyone is claiming a dd course will turn a young driver into a good driver, but surely receiving some education and guidance, be it in the form of a short course or given in tidbits from an instructor over time or whatever, is likely to be beneficial to varying degrees depending on the recipient?

that's why it should be personal choice and not mandatory... varying degrees. i hated maths b i am just glad they didn't make that mandatory.

Whether you give an idiot a gun or a car is irrelevant. The end result can always end up being some poor sucker killed. Everybody complains about new laws etc, but it is the sum of our society. The majority are affected by the actions of the minority. Some f*ckwit who doesn't know how to drive, kills some innocent that causes an uproar, and the majority pay the penalty. It happens, get over it. If you are affected by this law, then stiff sh*t. You will eventually grow up and be allowed to play with BIG toys, and in the meantime, learn how to f*cking drive. I see enough young idiots sliding around the roads, cutting off traffic, causing crashes, to know that the majority of you young people wouldn't know how to save your ass if you got into serious trouble on the road. The majority of you know how to put the peddle to the metal and get a speeding ticket, but wouldn't know the first thing about getting yourself out of trouble if you found yourself in a serious slide or a tyre blew out whilst travelling down the highway at 100kph.

Again, such is life.

lol GRRRRRRR for a minute there i agreed with what you said, but then you started ranting about young drivers not knowing how to get them selves out of trouble.


WELL NO f***ING s*** SHIRLOCK, i dont see (nor did i experience) any driving lessons that told me how to get out of a slide, hard brake safely etc. No they taught me how to park 25cm's from the kurb, told me i had to stop at STOP signs etc.


Once new drivers are manditorily (lol is that a word?) taught these things, watch the "terrible" young driver road toll drop like an Italian soccer star.

Ranting about young drivers...pmsl, we are all young drivers at some stage or another. By default, young means inexperienced. It doesn't however, mean that you have to add stupidity into the equation as well.

Stupidity is:
-------------
1. Having a police chase with a car full of passengers, and wrapping the car around a pole.
2. Putting the foot down going around a corner, simply to show your shiela and your mates you can drive, only to roll the car and kill your shiela.
3. Getting into a chase, turning off your lights to avoid detection, crashing into a lagoon upside down, and fleeing the scene of the accident whilst leaving your girlfriend in the car to drown.
4. Speeding around a corner on a highway, taking it way too wide, only to see a truck coming in the opposite direction. Yanking the wheel to the left, putting the car off the road into wet mud, and as a result shooting the car headlong into the front of the truck killing both yourself and the passenger (my brother was the passenger by the way).

And the list of examples go on. To defend this sort of activity is to stand up tall and shout to the world that you are a f*cking idiot.

Experience says that the extra weight in the car could cause the car to slide if you give it too much stick, or that you should slow down going into a corner and accelerate out of it. Being an adult however, would mean that if you do something that brings you and your friends to the attention of the pigs, then you take responsibility and accept whatever comes, rather than start a chase and kill everybody in the process. That is truly pathetic.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Don't shoot the messenger....pmsl

ticcles, that is seriously dodgy psychology, or at best, grossly generalised

Probably me grossly generalising than anything but studies still show those facts.

Grrrr lost all credibility when he started using abbreviations such as "pmsl", and failed to negate the fact that THE biggest offenders of both
a) Speeding
and
b) Erratic non-indicated, non-lane staying BULLs***
is

TAXI DRIVERS.

Driving from Tarragindi --> (via City/Coro drive) Taringa --> Mt Gravatt --> Targina (via City/Coro Drive) --> Tarragindi (via RSE/Ipswhich rd).
I was nearly:

Swerved into by d******* taxi that couldn't stay in his lane
Changed two lanes across in front of me to turn right
Stopped half on the side of the road half in the only lane (one way each direction) [nose pointed in ass hanging out when could have lined up parrallel with the road easily].
Sped off from the lights doing at least 75-85 IN THE WET (multiplied by 3 or 4)
Overtaken on the RSE by two taxi's doing well over the 80 km's speed limit... IN THE WET.

Riced up silvia never tried to do anything stupid or race me off lights from ippy road down beaudesert road.
Few "done up" commodores and skyline, same deal nothing stupid at all.

This pretty much applies to virtually every time I get behind the wheel, Taxi's f*** me off something shocking, very few know how to obey the road rules and not cause accidents.

last edited by Loki at 04:33:19 01/Jan/07

Jerking on that knee is starting to get tiring.

Anyway, a week before Christmas some kid wraped the family car around a pole taking his little brother with him and putting the other brother in hospital.

Instead of exploring the possiblity that the driver was at fault (no doubt doing something dumb to show off to his little brothers). He instead gets praises of what a good person he was and tears fall from the heavens for this "promising" fella. Shame he wasn't driving a IMPORT. Or HIGH PERFORMANCE VEHICLE!
Maybe the story would have been portrayed differently.

Won't someone think of the f***en children!!!!11111one

Lesson here, don't die in a "fast/modified" car. No one will cry for you. T.T

Grrrr lost all credibility when he started using abbreviations such as "pmsl"

Hmmm.....being new to the site, I didn't know that credibility was linked to the usage of abbreviated terminology ^_^. In fact, I didn't know that I was seeking credibility at all.

The law is not directed at Taxi drivers, it is directed at all young people because a FEW young people were d*******s enough to draw the crabs on everybody. It is a fact, so get over it.

There are alot of good taxi drivers out there, and alot of bad taxi drivers out there.

I'm sure some of them wouldn't be so aggressive if people stopped abusing them/spewing up in the cab/fare evasion. And no, people don't do the majority of this because some are bad drivers.

I have never driven a taxi to pick up passengers, but i have driven several taxi's to different mechanical shops/wreckers etc etc.
It BLEW MY MIND to see how much disrespect came from the other cars. Not even in my bashed up old pos corolla did i get this much disrespect. People would not give me a break into a lane. People would just cut out of sidestreets infront of me. I could not get over it.

I don't know which came first, people treating cabbies like s*** or cabbies driving dangerously. All I can say is I understand why some cabbies don't give a s*** about following the rules. I don't think it's right though.

But hey, i reckon cabbies are whole lot less dangerous than old people. At least cabbies are assertive and will boot it to get out of trouble. And a whole lot less dangerous than an 18yo in a V8.

I was in Sydney about a fortnight ago and this is my cab experiences;

a) Cab from airport -> work: Taxi driver ran into the gutter, was doing 60km/h down the ED in the fast lane, then smashed the side of the car into the Harbour Bridge and sprayed glass all over my face.

b) Cab from work -> hotel: Ran a red light

c) Cab from hotel -> work: Almost had us t-boned because he was impatient and wanted to go around cars on the right when clearly they were turning right

d) Cab from work -> airport: Ran a red light and almost rear-ended someone.

Cabbies work long hours and drive all day so its inevitable they become lax with their driving but it doesn't excuse them from breaking road rules and driving like twats.

But there are good cabbies out there, awesome cabbies in fact - except the one c*** that had my mate in the back seat who was going home (who lives 5 minutes from me) on a Friday night and he wouldn't pull over and stop to pick me up. That was real fun trying to get home then.

had a quick scrounge around google and found this which basically supports what nf and ticman are saying in some of it's opening paragraphs:

http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/eb678a4a1fa3e99/The%20Effectiveness%20of%20Driver%20Training%20-%20Lit%20Review.pdf

teach about the dangers of driving tired, driving on s*** tyres (not just bald ones), awareness of road hazards, etc etc.

there is a theory class for an hour or 2 to cover this stuff too

However that same argument could be applied to the post menstrual woman that would nearly run me when I would be walking home from work in Land Cruisers when I was living down the road from Clayfield College. Because they believe that their children are safer when driving in that particular type of vehicle.

i watched a crash test review that revealed that large vehicles like land cruisers,etc have a weak body and crumble alot easier - and are more unsafe for the driver than a regular vehicle

Reason is that males go OMG!ICANFULLYSIKDRIFTNOW and proceed to fully sik drift themselves into a power pole.

im actually surprised that the government hasnt blamed power poles for accidents and making energex & some telstra convert all their networks to underground - would cost lots of $$ but keep me in a job forever

1. Having a police chase with a car full of passengers, and wrapping the car around a pole.

or running up a footpath and killing a school kid then blaming the police for chasing you in a stolen car

c) Cab from hotel -> work: Almost had us t-boned because he was impatient and wanted to go around cars on the right when clearly they were turning right

i took a taxi to a presentation for work in brisbane one night, were sitting at a 'turn left @ anytime' about to turn left, and the lights were green for the traffic to come straight through infront of us and he got half way out and had to slam on the breaks when he realised we almost go creamed by a heap of cars

It is a fact, so get over it.

What? I never said young kids should have high performance vehicles, infact I even specifically said they definately shouldn't have v8's.

I'm not denying that there might be some good ones out there, but the majority of cars I have seen Speeding/Driving stupidly or nearly been involved in an accident with through no fault of my own, have been taxi's, not kids in high performance vehicles.

In fact, in the high perfomrance category, it's usually business suit John 'Midlife Crisis' Doe in his "fuly sik " CV8Z Monaro or HSV Clubsport etc. showing off.


None of these new laws affect me, so I don't see what I have to "get over".

I didn't know that credibility was linked to the usage of abbreviated terminology

You lose credibility because "pissed myself laughing" is such a 14 y.o abbreviation :/

last edited by Loki at 15:14:11 01/Jan/07

You lose credibility because "pissed myself laughing" is such a 14 y.o abbreviation :/

Sorry Loki....but I am not seeking credibility....nor am I trying to act my age. I am simply contributing to the thread. I will not desist from using such abbreviations, simply to satisfy your whim of needing a more mature language to enforce credibility.

What determines a powerful car?

s*** 20 years ago most cars wouldn't even do 200km, now most new cars will get bloody close, including those little buzz boxes. The problem isn't the cars (as previously stated) its the attitude of the drivers (of all ages IMHO) on the roads today.

I think they would do better to increase penalties for driving offenses, madatory retesting every 3-5 years and immediate, no recourse disqualification for DUI and reckless driving with minimum 6 month disqualification periods, in which you go to jail for driving without a license after all it is against the law. f*** if you need your license for your job or whatever reason then don't DUI or drive like a tool.

I last think, idiots that try to out run the cops, then crach and everyone goes "oh high speed chase not nessecary" no it wouldn't if you stoped when pulled over... again immediate disqualification and jail!

Driving in a privilege not right!

Sorry Loki....but I am not seeking credibility....

Ok, good.
Stop posting then.

Ok, good.
Stop posting then.

Ouch! I've hit a raw nerve somewhere. Wipe your chin Loki, life is more enjoyable when you are not frothing at the mouth, or is it just a bad case of verbal diarrhea.

Don't take any notice of the village idiot Grrr :)

yeah world-class s*** talker you dealing with.

That could actually be offensive if it came from anybody but anyone from these forums... but alas. =]

no u r

With moterbikes, you have to start on a low power bike, then work your way up as time goes by. Cars should be no differant, regardless of age. So this law is close enough.

I was speaking to a mate of mine from England the other day, and he said that there's no way anyone under 30 would ever be able to drive a car with a 4.0L 6-cyl over there. He said he had a Ford Granada (like a falcon) which had a 2.8L 6-cyl and the only reason he could get it registered and insured for him was cos it was a classic car (over 25-years old apparently.)

Ford Granada:
http://www.pagine70.com/automobilitedesche/images/Ford Granada Mk2.jpg
Can you say XD Falcon look-a-like?

maybe it is an XD falcon and renamed like they do with most cars that get exported?

haha
mr hardware you crack me up

how do i crack you up?

and no, the XD was based off the ford granada, not the other way round. The granada is shorter than the XD.

I guess we will believe you on that one considering all the stuff you have been right about lately.

you crack me up cos you say whacko things, for example: 'Can you say XD Falcon look-a-like?' under a photo of a granada, or 'diesels are solid engines. its a pity they are slow as s***.'

jim, au falcons are the by far the best road going car

au falcons are by far the best taxi.

they are not even close to the best road going car.

i have never experienced a diesel that is anywhere near 'fast'. Turbo Diesels aren't tooo bad, but n/a diesels are slow, from my experience.

heh so now you change it to stipulate naturally aspirated diesel... cos they're so common in the context of modern cars, which is where you made the comment in the first place

sorry for clarifying.

that granada is a lot like the later cortina

i heard jim eats diesel engines for breakfast

and the only Diesel that ticman is in love with is Vin.

mr hardware you crack me up
crusher you up me crack

Mmmmmm Vin, if only his crank shaft was as big as this

Also, crushles - I thought we were keeping that a secrets?

pissed on

The ford Ford Granada was available here in Australia it was called the TD and TE Cortina Ghia and usually came with a 3.3L or 4.1L 6, while the Eurpoean version had a V6 and was faster and lighter!

And yes the XD did look like it because it was modeled from the Granada only bigger because here in Australia we have lots of room unlike Europe and nothing beats a straight 6 for fuel economy!!! *sarcam+*

As for normally aspirated diesels not performing, get your stupid ignorant arse into a VW Golf TDi, yeah its not a GTi but it plenty fast enough!

As for normally aspirated diesels not performing, get your stupid ignorant arse into a VW Golf TDi, yeah its not a GTi but it plenty fast enough!

tdi is an acronym for turbo diesel injection, so you're kind of owning yourself with that comment :)

I'm thinking of getting a diesel Polo for a second car. The fuel economy is klazy!

My mate here at work has a son in law with a Golf TDI, and after driving it was dumbfounded. So much grunt (because it's a diesel) and so much top end (because of the nifty way volkswagen do the injecting apparently). He said it was like driving a modern V6, and it's a 2L!

Phwoar!

So much grunt (because it's a diesel) and so much top end (because of the nifty way volkswagen do the injecting apparently). He said it was like driving a modern V6, and it's a 2L!

yeah but does it go phreeeeeeeeeee-shaaa-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-peow-peow-phreeeee-sha-cha-phreeee-cha-cha-cha?

pitchau-chao-choo-choo-choo-choo

last edited by maxe at 19:52:55 02/Jan/07

i duno if this applies to everyone, but certain cars elicit driver responses.

case in point.

my last 3 cars

vl commodore - slow, auto, drove it like a grandma because it was a grandma car

swift gti - revvy engine, needed to be revved to go anywhere, thrashed the s*** out of it

(current car) nissan pulsar 1.6l auto - doesn't matter where the throttle position is, it still accelerates the same, so there is no point driving it hard. hence its driven like a grandma car.

yeah, when i drive my gf's elentra or my dad's ford courier ute there is no compulsion to try and foot it it's easier just to cruise at the speed limit

as oppose to driving my car, but i manage

doing 9's isnt it now pave ?

hell yes

9 rollovers before it catches fire and explodes

9 flat-spots on each wheel from hella turn 3 lockups, paveway rides on Enneagons

i ride on better tyres than you maxe :p

that turn is a c*** though, you got to admit it

wouldn't my car need to be round for it to roll over?

tdi is an acronym for turbo diesel injection, so you're kind of owning yourself with that comment :)

YUP sure did... :(

A mate had a few years back (10+) an old Golf Diesel and it used to boogey along, and it wasn't turbo'd!

i agree cainer and paveway, some cars make me want to flat them and some cars make me want to drive like a grandma

i drive my au alot more granny than i did my corolla.

toyota camrys (the newer the better) make me want to drive like a granny

but VLs make me want to punt them, dunno maybe its the image

utes (esp tritons/hiluxes) make me want to drive like a granny

interesting isn't it... i wonder what it is about the cars that make ya do that. I've never worked it out....

Well my girlfriend drives a Getz and is the most patient and sedate person on the road. Stick her behind my SSV and she's hooning up and down the road and using enough petrol to keep the sultan of Brunei in his fancy gold plane.

When you drive a dunnydore, recessive primal urges are stimulated, and for a certain few they are unable to contain them, transforming them into bogons! These bogons are believed to be a backward step in the evolutionary chain a throwback to prehistoric man, but scientists believe they will be short lived due to their strange but dangerous courting habits, but some scientists disagree saying that their rapid reproductive rates will still ensure continuation of the sub species!

hahaha

on the other hand, nobody who drives a falcon has ever gotten laid

even with a country pack?

reload, perhaps you can't read, in which case I will take pity on you and reiterate what I have already outlined previously in this thread

you dont f*** in a mans ride, you just dont

ooh ooh reiterate away

What no one in a falcon ever got laid, f*** me you must have a lot of lonely bloody taxi rides home!

why do you think they are out driving taxi's every friday and saturday night

paveway, you crack me up
there's actually a fair bit of truth to that. it's funny. i think that most night drivers (like 55 or 60%) are not married or are divorced.
whereas day drivers, like 90% are married.

most of them are fat c***s that need a new profession other than sitting on their ass' driving

Taxi drivers scare the living s*** out of me, so many close calls when coming home from a big night out.