ONE of the notorious serial gang rapists has had his sperm frozen at taxpayers' expense so he can have a family when he is released from jail.

Court documents state the man, 22, cried after being told by doctors he will probably be sterile following chemotherapy for cancer.

The man was 17 at the time of the serial gang rapes in 2000 and cannot be named. He led one gang rape by 14 men on a girl in a toilet block.

Before raping one woman, aged 19, the man asked her if she liked it "Leb style". He raped her a second time after she had been forced to have sex with 14 other men, some of them several times.

You have got to be s***ting me, not only this, but we the tax payer will be paying for this to happen! By god this guy (and the rest of them) need to be castrated with a pair of rusty shears.

Discuss

how long does frozen sperm last... ten years? doubt he'll be out in time

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6926/tbag1da.jpg

^^^^ LOL

criminals are not allowed children/never rejuvenate/never deserve a second chance/should be shot/pass their criminal genes onto their children

I don't really fall for that sensationalist 'the taxpayer pays' thing because when you divide the cost by all the taxpayers it really is f*** all isn't it?

Dont'be a bunch on sensationalist fags. He made one little mistake when he was young ... why should that screw him for the rest of his life? His in jail, he's doing his time, when he comes out he'll be rehabilitated and ready to enter society as a useful functional member. He won't be having a kid until after this happens, so where's the problem ?

The fact that he destroyed the mental state of countless women ? The women who were raped will have to live with that on their mind for the rest of their lives.



last edited by Hybr|d at 08:23:25 07/May/06

he raped multiple woman, one with with 14 other guys and you call that a LITTLE mistake? this guy doesnt deserve to be allowed to have kids, ever. nor should he ever be allowed out of jail.

I can't believe you'd refer to being involved in a 14 man gang rape of a woman a "mistake". Thats trivialising it to the point "oh I see, I forgot to carry the 1....."

He doesn't deserve s*** from the public, I say f*** him up for life.

im sure he already is getting "f***ed for life" in jail lol

He made one little mistake when he was young ... why should that screw him for the rest of his life?

Stinky you can not be f***ing serious with this? One little mistake? Has anyone close to you been the vitcim of rape? I can tell you they are never the same again. You just have no f***ing clue.

once again nerds think they know everything.

just f***up and stay behind your little computer screens "leb stylez"

where was the security guy when all this happened?

I agree with the majority of posters in this thread, this f***er can get f***ed - this goes for all rapists, imo this along with kiddie fiddlers (paedofiles) are the LOWEST forms of criminals and deserve EVERYTHING that is given to them, both by the correct 'legal' channels and what his fellow innmates hand out i.e. the c*** can't sit down for weeks on end because his arse is so sore, see how he likes being raped.

scum of the earth

last edited by HeardY at 09:51:36 07/May/06

He should only be allowed his sperm if he has 100% good behaviour in jail and shows good signs of rehab and remorse for what he did.

Wouldn't murderers be the lowest form of criminals? Thats like a stupid ad on TV for Medium that reckons cheating is the worst sin a man can commit against his wife.... ffs as if cheating isn't better than beating her up.

not in my books anarot... if both being raped and getting molested as a child f***s the person up for the rest of their lives (the person who was attacked) - they have o live with that s*** for their entire life, if you are killed, granted, you are no longer alive - but at least you don't have this thing haning over your head forever...

suihab are you f***ing autistic?
f*** off and stop being so arrogant you selfish f***ing leb

Pff thats just stupid. With counseling and support, people can live on to have a successful and productive life after being raped. They can't do that after being killed. It'll only ruin their lives if they let it. Sure, there are cases in which the people don't have access to the help they need, and it has much more expansive (and expensive) effects on their lives, but seriously, if they're dead, they have no chance to change their circumstance. By your logic, we should just genocide most of the countries in Africa, because their lives aren't worth living.

Sorry kids, but as bad as what he did was AND is, having children is a right that no-one has the right to prevent. Given that he IS in jail atm (for something HE did, but that WE, society, have a problem with) it is justified that we the taxpayers pay for his sperm to be frozen. I could prolly argue this forever (and I'm sure some of u will NEVER agree, and that's cool) but I don't think the fact we're paying for this is really a problem.

Also, on a side note...keep in mind that as TERRIBLE as what he DID IS, he CLEARLY has something wrong with him to have put that woman through such an act. The woman MAY never be the same again (it depends on the person and how they respond to certain situations...tho OBVIOUSLY some trauma is to have been expected), but he ALSO has some issues, and he MAY be able to be rehabilitated through therapy AND (possibly) medication. Let's just HOPE he is getting help too.

It is a horrible situation that he put this woman through, but SOMETIMES these things CAN'T be prevented. The best that can be done is to FIX the problem and do WHATEVER they (the authorities) can to PREVENT a future occurance of all of this.

last edited by Agent 99 at 10:33:08 07/May/06

i think its SEXY how you CAPS random WORDS when u POST

as for keeping sperm, can we just say we did but don't?

They're NOT random words u noob. They're in caps for emphasis! Grrr, I was TRYING to make a point boy!! ><

And DON'T call me sexy when I'm trying to make a point! It de-values the merit of my post. Grrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

once again nerds think they know everything.

just f***up and stay behind your little computer screens "leb stylez"

riiiight...

so the girls deserved it because they weren't wearing bedsheets?

Having children is not a f***ing right. A child is a gift, its not like food or housing or something material. If more people realised this and cherished their children, there wouldn't be as many f***ed up people getting around raping people.

If we can put other people in jail and take away their lives, we can say whether or not they have children.

why are the tax payers paying for his chemo..let him die i say doesnt deserve to live after destroying the lives of his victoms

Perhaps a child is a gift, Anarot, but that doesn't give ANYONE the RIGHT to say whether or not another person should be allowed to breed. After all, we are still just animals that need/want to ensure the survival of our species (sorry to put it so bluntly, but we are...).

Also, although this point is fairly irrelevant to the argument...WHO says that the rapist (whoever he was) doesn't see children as a "gift"/doesn't value children (or WOULD EVER harm a child)?

Something to think about...

Edit:

why are the tax payers paying for his chemo..let him die i say doesnt deserve to live after destroying the lives of his victoms

Because EVERYONE has the RIGHT to life (and because this isn't America...we don't believe in the death penalty as a COUNTRY and even if we did, we still prolly wouldn't impose it on a rapist).


last edited by Agent 99 at 11:02:20 07/May/06

i agree with agent 99, i don't want our government to discriminate more than they already are

Whether he sees it or not is irrelevant. Do you want him to breed more rapists? Nuture doesn't just refer to looking after a child, it refers to environmental programming. If we don't have the right to say no to children, how can we have the right to put people in jail for life - away from their families and the possibility of having a normal relationship or marriage. That is arguably worse than not letting someone have children. Relationships and social interaction with the opposite sex is a basic human need in order to survive productively in society (same applies to animal kingdom). Having children is not a human need.

Also, seriously, if you consider yourself to be just an animal, you need to take a long hard look in the mirror, or perhaps, take a long hard psychological self analysis. Whoa, hey, wait a second - animals can't even do that!

you had me at

Grrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When a person is convicted of a crime and sent to prison, they lose their right to vote. I feel that they should also lose the right of any form of suport from the government and it's people. They felt that they were beyond the law of this country by commiting what ever crime it was they were convicted for, yet they then expect the very same government to pay for their "right" to then have children at a later date??

Whether he sees it or not is irrelevant. Do you want him to breed more rapists?

Whether or not a person becomes a rapist is not genetic. It is based on a number of environmental factors.

Nuture doesn't just refer to looking after a child, it refers to environmental programming. If we don't have the right to say no to children, how can we have the right to put people in jail for life - away from their families and the possibility of having a normal relationship or marriage. That is arguably worse than not letting someone have children.

The CHOICES we make on how we live in society and the BASIC ANIMAL INSTINT to reproduce are two different things. Don't confuse the two.

Relationships and social interaction with the opposite sex is a basic human need in order to survive productively in society (same applies to animal kingdom). Having children is not a human need.

Relationships and social interaction with humans of the opposite AND same gender is a human NEED, yes. PROCREATION certainly IS too...it is embedded into our very being to reproduce and continue our species. This is a NEED that spans the entire kingdom of species. ALL organisms will try to reproduce.

Also, seriously, if you consider yourself to be just an animal, you need to take a long hard look in the mirror, or perhaps, take a long hard psychological self analysis. Whoa, hey, wait a second - animals can't even do that!

I don't consider myself to JUST be an animal. But you can't deny the fact that we ARE animals, and we will ALWAYS have the DESIRE to procreate, and NEED to reproduce for the survival of our species.

Also, you don't need to reflect on yourself psychologically to know that it is BASIC ANIMAL (of which includes human) INSTINCT to reproduce. As a basic instinct, it is therefore a right.


PS Your arguments are annoying. You don't explain yourself enough.


last edited by Agent 99 at 11:30:51 07/May/06

so wat your saying is its ok that he raiped someone cause he has an animal instinct..you the one that the rest of CIVILISED sociaty has learnd CONTROL.

the fact remains we have rules if you dont abide by them then you dont deserve to have any rights..everyone live by the same rules, its simple really.

you had me at
Grrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stinky...

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!! lol

this f***er can get f***ed - this goes for all rapists, imo this along with kiddie fiddlers (paedofiles) are the LOWEST forms of criminals and deserve EVERYTHING that is given to them

So two 18 years old get drunk and f***, then the chick throws up the rape flag next morning cos shes a f***ing retard and the guy gets convicted, he deserves to have the rest of his life f***ed up?

Someone ends up with some small amounts of underaged porn unintentionally (and dont try and tell me thats impossible), do they deserve to have the rest of hteir life f***ed up?


The reason you cant universally write people off for life who commit "shocking" crimes is because there are always circumstances. Im not saying everyone in jail is a saint, but Im also saying that once youve paid your debt in lockup/probation you shouldnt be treated any differently.

Its not all black and white, try and think outside the box

last edited by maxe at 11:44:02 07/May/06

so wat your saying is its ok that he raiped someone cause he has an animal instinct..you the one that the rest of CIVILISED sociaty has learnd CONTROL.

the fact remains we have rules if you dont abide by them then you dont deserve to have any rights..everyone live by the same rules, its simple really.

NOOOOOOO.

I'm saying that with rights come responsibilities...yes. And so with the RIGHT to live in society AS ONE CHOOSES, comes the RESPONSIBILITY to live in a way that is deemed ACCEPTABLE by the society you live in. If you DON'T live in a SOCIALLY acceptable way, then you live in prison as punishment AND so that hopefully you can be reformed to live back in that society.

HOWEVER...

It is a FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN (and animal) RIGHT to be able to BREED. Again, with rights come responsibilities, SO if someone doesn't look after their offspring (ok, children really, but I guess I'm just keeping it technical) THEN the authorities take hold of the chilren and look after them in a socially acceptable way.

The point is, it is a BASIC ANIMAL (and therefore human) INSTINCT to reproduce, and all ppl SHOULD be allowed to have chilren. IF they cannot look after them properly, then authorities intervene so that the children are looked after in a socially (and HUMANLY) acceptable way. HOWEVER keep in mind, that JUST because someone does something that is deemed by a society to be horrible (such as rape...which btw, I think is a horrible thing too), it DOESN'T mean that that person cannot look after a child/ren properly and shouldn't be allowed to reproduce...

Animal instinct is redundant in humans, because we operate on free will. Sure, we want to have sex, but that doesn't mean that its an outright right. I would like to have sex with heaps of the girls I see on the street, but I don't have the right to do so. If animal instinct had any importance to humans, all the men would be running around, fighting each other to the death for the opportunity to impregnate the healthiest female. Because we are humans and not animals, we have the ability to make decisions against this sort of behaviour and have set up civilised societies that simply cannot accept it. Therefore, procreation is NOT a right.

If believe you are an animal and act on instinct, then if I ever meet you, don't expect me to treat you as a human. Also, by your reasoning, do you believe that it is every animals right to procreate? If so, how can you abide by humans not allowing this? Like clubbing seals to death because there are too many - thats denying the animals right to recreate its species - how is that any different, by your logic?

Also you misunderstood what I was saying. I clearly stated that NURTURE not NATURE can cause someone to grow into a certain mentality. You then went on to agree with this statement. DO you really think that if this disturbed person has children, that he won't bring them up to believe the same things he does? Don't be delusional.

All those Africa nations that are dying because of overpopulation and rampant aids - do you really think they should just be allowed to bring children into the world for nothing but suffering and death? Do you use contraception? Because if you do, then you are totally denying your animal instincts to reproduce. You can't have the cake and eat it too. You just manipulate procreation when it suits you and then say that this guy should be allowed to have children, no matter what. What's your stance on abortion?

hey evetS you're just as bad as those rapists you f***ing scum.

what are you 18? trying to earn a quick buck by drug dealing.

You wouldn't know what a hard days work is.

People buying drugs have the opportunity to say no, people being raped don't.
It's not even in the same ball park in many many ways, you don't go out and decide to purchase "Rape".

You cant really comment on a situation until you know everything about it.

Too much generalization going on in this thread, like maxe stated, not everybody who is convicted as a rapist actually is. Seriously, who is more likely to be believed, the woman or the man? In our soceity men are already considered to be animals, so its not such a fair stretch.

On the other hand, I have absoutely no sympathy for any convicted (Real) rapists or child molesters full stop. I would rather have them killed then incarcerated. After seeing the aftermarth first hand a few times, its not just a horrible thing that happens, it's something that DOES completely change someones life, and its not like "finding god" I can tell you that. But thats just my opnion and its not nessacilary right. Jail is about rehabiliation, not just punishment.

Animal instinct is redundant in humans, because we operate on free will. Sure, we want to have sex, but that doesn't mean that its an outright right. I would like to have sex with heaps of the girls I see on the street, but I don't have the right to do so. If animal instinct had any importance to humans, all the men would be running around, fighting each other to the death for the opportunity to impregnate the healthiest female. Because we are humans and not animals, we have the ability to make decisions against this sort of behaviour and have set up civilised societies that simply cannot accept it. Therefore, procreation is NOT a right.

Ok...HERE WE GO!!!

Animal instinct is NOT redundant in humans. YES we operate on free will and we have the ABILITY to live in "moral" ways and throw terms such as "rights" and "responsibilities" around (because we, unlike other animals, are able to think in this way) BUT...this doesn't mean that animal instinct is redundant in humans. We STILL have animal instinct, HOWEVER we LIVE in ways that disallow/go against disobeying/infringing on OTHERS RIGHTS.

If you look at the animal kingdom, other species of animals have ways of signalling to get a females attention. If the female rejects them, then they don't have a chance. That's JUST the way it is. If they still go for the female and "rape" them (so to speak, although other animals can't technically rape because they don't have the ability to have rights as they don't have the ability to think in such ways), then there is no "crime", I guess it would just be the wrong thing...tho as they aren't able to think in "wrong" and "right", it wouldn't really count as "rape". I'll prolly have to explain this point further but I'll leave it for now.

If you (as a human...CAPABLE of knowing "right" and "wrong") seek the attention of a female and are rejected by the female, HOWEVER you still have sex with the female AGAINST HER WILL, then that is wrong. My point I guess is that as a HUMAN, with a MORAL conscience (which is only present in humans btw), you are only able to have sex with someone if they agree. Animal instinct is NOT redundant, it's SIMPLY that you can only have sex with someone IF they agree (i.e. you are not infringing on their rights).

If believe you are an animal and act on instinct, then if I ever meet you, don't expect me to treat you as a human.

Instinct is characteristic of ALL animals. However, as an additional component, HUMANS are ALSO capable of having RIGHTS, and so this has to be factored into other human-human interactions.

Also, by your reasoning, do you believe that it is every animals right to procreate?

Yes.

If so, how can you abide by humans not allowing this?

Because humans have "rights" (unlike other animals) and therefore must factor this into their interactions.

Like clubbing seals to death because there are too many - thats denying the animals right to recreate its species - how is that any different, by your logic?

Different species. Different arguement.

Also you misunderstood what I was saying. I clearly stated that NURTURE not NATURE can cause someone to grow into a certain mentality. You then went on to agree with this statement.

I think its MOSTLY nurture (as in environment) but some elements of personality play a part.

DO you really think that if this disturbed person has children, that he won't bring them up to believe the same things he does? Don't be delusional.

Maybe he isn't TRULY disturbed. Maybe he was acting in a group environment and this influenced his decision to act in such a way...? (not that I'm saying that makes what he did right, simply that ppl do act differently in group environments...socially proven fact). He DID do something wrong, but he CERTAINLY MAY CHANGE with rehabilitation. I think he has the right to be given a CHANCE, and even if he doesn't CHANGE, he has the right to have children. Following this, IF he didn't look after the children, I would expect the authorities to intervene.

All those Africa nations that are dying because of overpopulation and rampant aids - do you really think they should just be allowed to bring children into the world for nothing but suffering and death?

HOW do you know that there lives are NOTHING but suffering and death? Different types of societies, different types of existence. They MAY suffer in DIFFERENT ways and DIE at an earlier age...AND I'm sure that they do prolly suffer more than "us" (Western cultures, "wealthier" cultures) but yes, I still think they have the right to breed, or at least choose to breed. WHO are you OR me to decide what makes up a life worth living??

Do you use contraception? Because if you do, then you are totally denying your animal instincts to reproduce.

Yes I do (do you?). And no, I don't believe I am denying my animal instincts to reproduce. Nor do I believe you (or anyone else is) if they choose to use contraception. I SIMPLY believe that ppl who use contraception and FOLLOWING basic animal instinct and that they are using their CONSCIENCE and ABILITY to reflect on things/decisions to procreate in a responsible way.

You can't have the cake and eat it too. You just manipulate procreation when it suits you and then say that this guy should be allowed to have children, no matter what.

I don't believe I (or any other HUMAN) is manipulating procreation to suit me/them. I SIMPLY believe (and this is my major point) that all animals should be allowed to procreate, and GIVEN that humans also have the ability to think using a conscience (which is exclusive to humans) AND also have the ability think abstractally and live in a more advanced sort of society (cf other animals/organisms) then they should also be allowed to use contraception (if they choose) to FOLLOW their INSTINCTS, BUT in a RESPONSIBLE way.

What's your stance on abortion?

Oh god, do you really want me to continue? :P

last edited by Agent 99 at 12:23:04 07/May/06

Eek ... got omnislash?

Animal instinct is redundant in humans, because we operate on free will.

Dance, monkeys, dance.

We just think we're different. We try to be, but we're still monkeys.

/over this threads

We're not going to agree. Have a nice day :)

It's not even in the same ball park in many many ways, you don't go out and decide to purchase "Rape".

(not that I would) but one could argue that some people by the way they act/dress are putting themselves in those types of compromising positions

so any of you guys actually have any knowledge of evolutionary theories of rape?

there may be some merit in not allowing this guy to breed if the evidence supported it. personally I cant agree with this because its a fundamental violation of civil liberties.

also

do yourselves a favour and look up the dangerous prisoners (sex offenders) act which some liberal scum bum dicksucking QLD politician invented and see how easy it is for some witch-doctor psychologist and the attorney-general to create second-class citizens and lock somebody up for as long as they feel like regardless of what the courts and judiciary say.

Also I would like to publicly state my desire to drink piss and practice various contraceptive techniques with Agent 99 on the beach.

that is all.

Boxhead thats a very valid but not very popular argument!

No reflection on you, but I think a lot of the rapists of middle-eastern decent would agree with that argument. A more profound example is a girl going into a hotel room, dressed like a prostitute, getting totally drunk with a bunch of testosterone charged football players, then claiming rape. There has to be an element of responsibility for you own actions here.....

We're not going to agree. Have a nice day :)

Cool, that's fine. I just don't think it's manipulating procreation. I think everything is circumstantial.

One little mistake? Has anyone close to you been the vitcim of rape? I can tell you they are never the same again. You just have no f***ing clue.

Hey! you shouldnt be talking. If except people to treat you like a normal person after playing WoW then this guy should except the same thing!

The point is, it is a BASIC ANIMAL (and therefore human) INSTINCT to reproduce, and all ppl SHOULD be allowed to have chilren.

What about retards? If they reproduce their children have a high chance (if not 100% chance) of being born retards. Thats not so bad until you realise the parents are retards, so how are they going to take care of the retarded child when they can hardly take care of themselves?

I think you should stop posting in threads like these Agent 99 because you are nothing but a female and females are made for mating and s***ting out babies. Nothing else. (!)

thats a delightful way you have of defining reproduction and childbirth Greazy.

sandwich?

Whether or not a person becomes a rapist is not genetic. It is based on a number of environmental factors.

What like having a father who enjoys repeat gang rape? I mean, just as an example.

last edited by spidz at 18:23:46 07/May/06

why is this such a huge outrage

its not like it costs a lot to store a vial of sperm

nf knows the score

"Trust me, im a scientist"

riiiight...

so the girls deserved it because they weren't wearing bedsheets?

haha.

(not that I would) but one could argue that some people by the way they act/dress are putting themselves in those types of compromising positions

There is no excuse for rape, ever. I know you said you wouldn't make that argument but that's the argument those disgusting islamic gang rapists use. It's wrong and so unbelievably f***ed up that they would even consider to try and make excuses for what they've done.

Did someone say Killer Instinct?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/zeezee/Random/fulgorepic.gif

i'd like to see the complete bogan chick he manages to sucker into having kids as a 40-year-old former rapist

more power to him

last edited by Insom at 14:13:53 07/May/06

all ppl SHOULD be allowed to have chilren.

Worst. comment. ever.

all children should be allowed to have people

Yeah even that sounds better

its not like it costs a lot to store a vial of sperm

I think i'll stay away from your fridge.

two menny spelling errahs hear

Dude where is the quote in your sig from? Its fantastic!

I think she just capitalises her words to get attention. Like she's SHOUTING.

Either that or she's actually a writer for The Phantom... there's always random bolded words in his strips.

http://www.scifispace.com/assets/images/Phantom.gif

Scary Movie 4 :-D

where "Tom" is talking to that dude in the War of Worlds scene ...

lol awesome... I'll check it out when it hits dvd.

posting in this epic thread

I must admit that both Agent 99 and Anarot have valid arguments, but the fact that Agent 99 contradicted herself quite a few times kinda puts her behind the eight-ball =\.

[quote]So two 18 years old get drunk and f***, then the chick throws up the rape flag next morning cos shes a f***ing retard and the guy gets convicted, he deserves to have the rest of his life f***ed up? [/quote]

Thats really extreme and kind of stupid.

Also, with the whole argument on the clothes a woman decides. Really and truly thats f***ing retarded. Honest to god I really don't know how that surfaced because its f***ing stupid.

Btw, the guy shouldnt be able to reproduce. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he should be forced to face the consequences. Whatever they maybe.

By your logic, we should just genocide most of the countries in Africa, because their lives aren't worth living.

I agree with this logic.

If you look at the animal kingdom, other species of animals have ways of signalling to get a females attention. If the female rejects them, then they don't have a chance. That's JUST the way it is. If they still go for the female and "rape" them (so to speak, although other animals can't technically rape because they don't have the ability to have rights as they don't have the ability to think in such ways), then there is no "crime", I guess it would just be the wrong thing...tho as they aren't able to think in "wrong" and "right", it wouldn't really count as "rape". I'll prolly have to explain this point further but I'll leave it for now.

No, some species of animals have been observed where the male 'forces' sex onto the female. This has been mostly obsereved with Bottlenose Dolphins where several males will 'corner' female. We all know that Dolphins are one of few species of animals that have sex for fun. Some herbivorous herd species (or species where males and females are very different in size) where the male dominates sexually by sheer force and size. It has also been noted that some species of Moles will 'rape' new born babies and inpregnate the new borns at a very young age.

Don't get me started on homosexual behavior with animals.

So just to conclude: animals have the ability to rape, not all but some.

Edit: Can you stop generlisting. The animal kingdom includings everything from insects to primates. I do not understand how you can blatenly say that only humans have a conscience. Please define what a conscience really is.

it's not rape in the animal kingdom, it's animals following their instincts and doing what they were programmed to do.

we humans as sentient beings are supposed to be above such behaviour according to the society we live in. Obviously some of us aren't above such behaviour. A lot of peope say rape is all about power, but I think often it's about a person losing themselves to their animal instincts, usually spurred on by external stimuli ( peer pressure, drugs, alcohol, etc ).

it's not rape in the animal kingdom, it's animals following their instincts and doing what they were programmed to do.

You mean even when the dolphine, an animal that has been documented to have sex for social reasons, corners a female and forces sex onto her, its not considered rape?

Its not rape, its suprise sex.

So you're saying that because a dolphin enjoys having sex it's not allowed to force sex upon the opposite sex, yet a three assed monkey who only has sex to reproduce forcing sex is okay? It's our sentience that allows us to say rape is right/wrong, not our enjoyment of it.

http://www.sexwork.com/family/dolphins1.html

So you're saying that because a dolphin enjoys having sex it's not allowed to force sex upon the opposite sex, yet a three assed monkey who only has sex to reproduce forcing sex is okay?

No, I am saying that animals are capabile of rape. No more no less. I have no idea where you got this 3 assed monkey rape thing from. It doesnt even make sense.

what the animal kingdom needs is religion

And treadmills.

The dolphin was asking for it.

I clearly stated that NURTURE not NATURE

You clearly said “nuture” ….

Nuture doesn't just refer to looking after a child,

I don’t know what this ‘nuture’ is, but you can leave it in your commie states.

So you're saying that because a dolphin enjoys having sex it's not allowed to force sex upon the opposite sex, yet a three assed monkey who only has sex to reproduce forcing sex is okay? It's our sentience that allows us to say rape is right/wrong, not our enjoyment of it.

Agreed.

So just to conclude: animals have the ability to rape, not all but some.

Edit: Can you stop generlisting. The animal kingdom includings everything from insects to primates. I do not understand how you can blatenly say that only humans have a conscience. Please define what a conscience really is.

I have studied some of this stuff at uni and only humans have a conscience, and therefore can have "morals" and "know" "right" from "wrong".

I prolly couldn't define conscience for you off the top of my head but basically being able to understand "right" from "wrong" I guess is a defining feature.

I must admit that both Agent 99 and Anarot have valid arguments, but the fact that Agent 99 contradicted herself quite a few times kinda puts her behind the eight-ball =\.

This is my point (which I have just copied and pasted):

I don't believe I (or any other HUMAN) is manipulating procreation to suit me/them. I SIMPLY believe (and this is my major point) that all animals should be allowed to procreate, and GIVEN that humans also have the ability to think using a conscience (which is exclusive to humans) AND also have the ability think abstractally and live in a more advanced sort of society (cf other animals/organisms) then they should also be allowed to use contraception (if they choose) to FOLLOW their INSTINCTS, BUT in a RESPONSIBLE way.

Further, given that we have a conscience, we have the responsibility (which comes with the right) to not infringe on others rights.

Where have I contradicted myself?




PS I think the major issue with my arguments in this thread is not that I've contradicted myself, but simply that ppl keep bringing in other factors which will clearly alter the argument. It's not a black and white topic tho so that has to be expected...

last edited by Agent 99 at 09:42:22 08/May/06

He made one little mistake when he was young ...

You have to be kidding me - 'one little mistake' That isn't a little mistake that is a major consensus decision

Yeah, I have to agree with u - it's hardly a "little" mistake. Let's hope he's reformed a bit whilst in prison.

more on dolphins:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19059368-13762,00.html

lets also hope agent99 posts less, or at least smaller, to the point posts, instead of essays filled with CAPITALISED words.. and at the end, u sit there thinking, wtf...

worst, thread, eva


last edited by speedhax at 14:02:15 08/May/06

Yah, sorry. I went on a bit of a debating rampage yesterday. But tis not easy to keep to the point when other ppl bring other factors into an argument...

Basically I just think everyone should be allowed to have children if they want to.

Meh. Over it.


last edited by Agent 99 at 14:07:40 08/May/06

more like, there is enuf s*** in our gene pool without polluting it more with this guys offspring, AM I RITE

The nail has just been hit on the head.

By god this guy (and the rest of them) need to be castrated with a pair of rusty shears.

I agree, all Lebs should be castrated.

Spidz won this thread on page 2.

last edited by Crizane Tribal at 22:21:39 08/May/06

I think that what he did was disgusting but I don’t think it should preclude him from having children. There is nothing to say that he won’t have children that grow up to be fantastic well adjusted people. It’s hard to judge those people which we do not know. Don’t forget - the media tend to sensationalise a lot of things to do with young offenders.

He doesn’t have the right nor should he ever be respected for the crimes he committed but he shouldn’t be denied the right to have children. Sadly, I think the problem here is that there would be women out there willing to carry this fellas kids. Don’t know him personally though so that’s as far as I am willing to comment on this one.

His ethnicity or race is irrelevant.

Take him to america and fry his brains out, capital punishment ftw!

sure we cant stop him having kids, but helping him by storing his shizzal while hes in prison is just plain wrong

I suppose you could argue that when someone is incarcerated the aim, whether it works or not (which is an entirely separate debatable issue), is to separate them from the community and the privileges bestowed on that community in order to deter them from further offending. I suppose you could include the freezing of ones sperm as a privledge - especially where you aren't charged for it. Maybe... it is rightly so that he should be denied such privileges in view of the crimes he has been found guilty of.

your posts are pretty short for a chick

You can make your point a lot easier if you keep them short right? i don;t read half the long "babble" posts on here so why bother writting something that will undoubtedly bore everyone else and probably stand unread.

He should rot for what he's done. However it's not our right to say he shouldn't have children (even if he shouldn't)
SO - if he wants to have kids, he can organise it himself - my issue is why the hell should we help him get what he wants?

No girl wants to be raped repeatedly by 14 men, but she didnt get what she wanted when she was screaming no and for them to stop.

Also : I agree that there are alot of younger girls these days dressing somewhat inappropriately, however for someone to say that the way girls dress means they're asking to be raped should be shot. Grow up, wake up.

this happened in sydney and i remember my hatred for lebs elevating 10 fold when i found out it happened, if i remember correctly the girl was australian, and hence the "leb style" comment, everyone of them should've been shot and it is definatly not a f***ing little mistake.

don;t be a racist mav... it's so unattractive and completely unnecessary. You don;t hate all men because of the rape so how you can justify hating lebanese people is beyond me.

YOU GUNNA START HATIN ON NAZIS TOO!?

He should wait until he gets out to have kids.

Plus freezing his sperm doesn't mean s***, He still has to find someone stupid enough to mate with him - but then again, they aren't too hard to find.

i think he does have to wait kat, but because he has cancer(thank god he finally got one of the evil f***ers) the chemotherapy has a possibility of making him sterile.

and i'm sorry for my racist remarks velvet, but when you've been tortured at school for a year being assaulted daily, harassed, abused and generally treated like s*** because you're an aussie from turks and lebs, it's hard to form a positive opinion of them, luckily one leb was my best friend or i would've copped more than i did.

i think he does have to wait kat, but because he has cancer(thank god he finally got one of the evil f***ers) the chemotherapy has a possibility of making him sterile.

And if he was on the outside he would have the ability to freeze them available to him. Since he isn't on the outisde, by his own means, I believe he should have to wait.

Not that it will change what happens though

hahahah hashy, that pic made me lol

but when you've been tortured at school for a year being assaulted daily, harassed, abused and generally treated like s*** because you're an aussie from turks and lebs, it's hard to form a positive opinion of them

You exaggerate much?

I don't really fall for that sensationalist 'the taxpayer pays' thing because when you divide the cost by all the taxpayers it really is f*** all isn't it?

Everything us tax payers pay for adds up noob.

its standard procedure for chemo i think

so get the f*** over it, the cost of chemo would be 10,000x the cost of putting a vial of jizz in no2, but you don't see people complaining that the health care system is paying for that.

tax dollars should pay to keep prisoners alive (hence chemo) but any 'extras' on top of that are unjustified even if the cost is relatively minor

anything else he wants from the govt? perhaps a plasma tv

You exaggerate much?

you been an Australian in the middle of Parramatta?
no so STFU

no but he's an iraqi in the middle of QGL!

i think that in the interests of zpg the right to breed should be removed from everyone & the govt should hold an annual raffle to decide who gets the rights to breed. eventually, possibly after hundreds of thousands of years, people will be born with a genentic predisposition to luck so that they can continue thier genetic line through the lucky winning of raffles. then all of societies woes will just drop away because everyone will just be too damn lucky for anything bad to happen to them.


:D

your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter

haha spidz

but when you've been tortured at school for a year being assaulted daily, harassed, abused and generally treated like s*** because you're an aussie from turks and lebs, it's hard to form a positive opinion of them

And people have the same happen to them for just being them but they don't go out and rape people or blow people up.

People need to take responsibility for their actions.

meh such a big deal over nothing, the fact is he is very unlikely to find a women who will have children with him, if he doesnt die in prison first.

something about partaking in a gang bang makes me wonder what it would be like to be the chick, and how f***ing sexy it would be. except lebs are dirty and be gang raped by a leb would be disgusting cause there penis are yucky.

groydis: but it gives us something to discuss. Without controversy the world is a boring place

there are more interesting things to notice of and pay attention to then this s***. and you know that.

*Gets distracted by something shiney...*

LET'S RIDE BIKES!!!!!!!!!!!

gang raped by a leb would be disgusting cause there penis are yucky

So you'd prefer to be gang banged by non lebs. You like latinos much ?

Ah boys.

Isn't the horror of the crime the fact that it was gang rape?

Do you think a girl being repeatedly raped by 14 men is worried/thinking about the nationality of the genitals inside her?

considering the wolrd is based on assumptions and so is the media and its a fact that some girls are attracted to the gang rape scenario then yes it is safe to assume that one would be worried about the nationality of the cock pulsating inside her and the one thats about to ramed on in 5 minutes later.

Do you think a girl being repeatedly raped by 14 men is worried/thinking about the nationality of the genitals inside her?

Obviously cocks on 14 wholesome white guys would be much better than 14 dirty sand n*****s.

and considering one of the guys was let off a little bit because his roles in the rape wasnt a severe as the rest of em im sure the whole ordeal wouldnt be classified as so severe if they were all white.

white guys wouldnt do this kinda thing

dont be racist.

correct me if im wrong but this was a racist crime wasnt it?

its rape which falls under sexual assault.

i aint going to get into an argument about this, but i accept your wrongness and forgive you

i wasnt being racist, nor do i give two s***s about your opinion

The crime is rape and while the enthicity seems to be a big issue here I don't see it as a 'race crime' that would assume that it is what lebs do - and not all do stupid acts like that

f*** up Kat, you'd say anything just to annoy me, and you're not exactly the brightest person in the world

dude, I don't even know who you are. Sorry to brust your bubble

speedhax no one gives a f*** if you get annoyed or not. No one cares. Understand ? ya numskull ?

was waiting for your troll, you need to speak when you're spoken to

Not on this forum.

I read first post .. I read last post and all I can say is the guy should be shot instead of freezing his off-shoot. No-one wants people like this breeding.

its true speedhax, you bit my bait, i didnt bite yours.

lol

"But I poop from there" :sadface:

A SERIAL gang rapist whose sperm was frozen at taxpayers' expense so he can have a family on his release from jail will be told: pay for it yourself.

NSW Premier Morris Iemma yesterday vowed the Government would ban the collection and storage of the sperm of serious criminals.

His cancer - Hodgkin's disease - was diagnosed a month after he was jailed with Bilal Skaf in October 2002 for the gang rapes of young women across Sydney's southwest.

The man's sperm was frozen before he began chemotherapy - and he cried when told it would leave him sterile.

The bill was picked up by Justice Health, a division of NSW Health, and the sample stored at no cost at a Royal Hospital for Women clinic.

But Mr Iemma said a commercial rate - about $250 a year - would now be set and the rapist told to pay up.

link

Not the outcome I would have prefered, but at least the tax payer isn't footing the bill.

how is the convict earning a living

They get allowances.

So essentially we're paying for it anyway O.o

no, you're paying him an allowance from which he is choosing to use part to store his sperm. the allowance would be paid regardless, so essentially you're reducing his allowance

From what I could find searching online (unsure if this is 100%) they are paid approx $7 a day. I actually contacted someone I know who works at the Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre but that information is protected by the privacy act.

Last year for a week on the Nova 106.9 breakfast show they were having people call in who had been in prison, or had family members serve time etc, for a broad range of crimes.
Anyway I just remember being amazed at some of the stories of the facilities they have access to and yeah - the amount of allowance they recieve.
Theres no consitant amount, I think its dependant on what prison or 'correctional facility' theyre in and what section inside it (so essentially what sort of crime theyre serving time for).
But they can have single rooms and a set up on Tvs, playstations etc - depending on their allowances or if they have family members giving them money. But often they can get their hands on alot of this stuff cheaper through the prison. I think most of that was for like womans correctional facilities though.
s***ty family life - commit crime - get a nice holiday from the brats.

hey guys.

what do you call a black guy flying a plane?

mohammad

a pilot you f***ing racist.

What do you call a lebanese guy that just got bashed ?

Hamid.

It is the imprisonment that is their punishment. The way they are imprisoned is pretty irrelevant in my belief. Prisons are surposed to be aplace of rehabilitation, not a place where we inflict further punishment on offenders.

I hardly think tv, play station and pizza makes prison a holiday. Prison is anything but a holiday. You may think it very nice to have tv and playstation but if you can't walk out of that room and have your freedom then i hardly see that as any great privledge. I hate how people go around harping on about how easy people have it in prison. Sure they have comitted crimes but they haven;t ceased being human beings. They are still people and never do they stop having the right to be treated decently and humanely.

They are provided educational facilities, the ability to work, and recreation activities. I think this is more than fair seeing as they have been denied the right to freedom. Yes,it was their descision to break the law, it was their wrong act that has landed them in this position but this does not give us the automatic right to treat them inhumanely.

By breaking the law and committing certain hanus acts (rape, murder etc) these people have given up their rights to be considered human and to be treated fairly. They refuse to live by humane standards yet then expect to be treated humanely?
They are lower than scum and in extreme cases, in my opinion should, should be left in a deep dark hole and forgotten about.

Yeah, I have to agree with u TK - some of the stuff these ppl do is pretty horrendous. And in some cases, I'm sure that some of the offenders can't be rehabilitated (which is quite sad really imo).

However, how are these ppl to learn to behave appropriately in society if no-one shows them along? I'm sure many of them think that (for whatever reason) they had a right to commit the criminal act for which they have been imprisoned for, even if they know it was wrong.

But to my point, I guess I just think rehab is really important, and during that time (no matter what we think of their crimes) that these ppl have a right to be treated humanely, and so deserve all of the rights of those in civilised community.

last edited by Agent 99 at 08:44:22 13/May/06

I'm all for rehab in some circumstances, but murderers, rapists, etc really need to be analysed before any attempt is made, I think alot of time is wasted trying to teach old dogs new tricks.

As for TV / Playstation, that's ridiculous, they should have limited stimulation that isn't self made and more solitary confinement.

As for TV / Playstation, that's ridiculous, they should have limited stimulation that isn't self made and more solitary confinement.

You forget that even tho they have these things available to them, it's not exactly a holiday in prison. They don't get any of the freedom we all take for granted/don't notice til it's gone.

No I completely understand that, but short of killing them, I think it is impossible to punish people like that too much.

It's sort of like a cure to the lonliness that is supposed to be the punishment ? I dunno how to explain what I mean, but it would just be harder to pass the time if you had nothing available to you, which is how it should be..

Read this news story and tell me if the whole rehabilitation thing worked...

Story

I guess too that it comes down to the people responsible for paroling these "people" (I use the term loosely). William Craig Forde should have never been released for what he did, but was, and what did he do? Raped another woman over a 29 hour period. By god our justice system need a good hard going over and these goody two shoes who think that the system works need to wake up.

how are these ppl to learn to behave appropriately in society if no-one shows them along?

So people need to be taught that killing/raping someone is wrong, and that it's societies fault if no one does? I'm sorry but that excuse doesn't wash with me. It's common sense! Everyboby on this forum knows that raping and killing is wrong, yet did they need to be "specially educated" in order to realise that? No one makes these offenders kill people, no one makes them take part in a 14 person rape, no one makes them kidnap and rape a woman over 29 hours, no one makes them rape a 13 year old girl, they do it themselves and thus need to accept what they have done, and if it means they lose the rights that you and I take for granted every day, they only have themselves to blame.

Clockwork orange anyone?

It has been proven time and time again that prison is not an effective means of punishment. In fact, those who have been in prison are more likely to re-offend. There is no doubt about that - prison just does not work. At the same time however... what else are we gunna do? I think that it is right to imprison people who commit serious offences... rape, murder, etc... BUT sadly, most of the people in jail are those caught for theft or drugs. A person imprisoned for these relatively minor things should not be treated like crap.

I believe we should make the prison experience as accommodating as possible for prisoners needs in the hope that prison wont skrew them up even more. Yes, there are rapists and murderers who it may seem a good idea not bestow privileges upon... but you can’t deny that they are still human beings. f***ing with their heads by denying them any form of stimuli is just cruel and unnecessary. Yes you'll argue that their crimes were cruel and unnecessary but that is irrelevant. Once in the prison system they do not loose their right to be treated as a human being.

My point is - most prisoners are in there for minor offences. The whole prison concept shouldn’t be built upon the idea that they are big bad people in there that need to be punished and treated like animals and denied the right to live comfortably. The reality is YOU or a family member or friend could end up in prison and if you nor your family and friends will wish that you have to live in a substandard way.

Edit: spelling

last edited by Velvet at 16:31:57 13/May/06

The time should suit the crime.

Yes I think a playstation is a holiday. Its a luxury item. Not even I have one. :(

On the rehabilitation front - do all inmates have access to psychologists and councelors etc daily? I mean besides some edcuational facilities and maybe learning a trade, what is the extent of this rehabilitiation? Is it wholistic, or are they just going to be able to get a better job as long as no one looks at their record?

Some elaborate cheque fraud is wrong, but not exactly in the same league as say a serial killer who tortures and yes, kills their victims.

Maybe its about punishment, maybe its just about getting these people the hell out of 'outside' society in the hope that we can get it functioning with some level of success. Not all rules were meant to be broken.

Velvet, your response implies that the only function of imprisonment is rehabilitation.

Punishment generally has a number of functions: for example rehabilitation, retribution, protection of society, deterrent

In other words, if a prisoner doesn't get rehabilitated then at the very least we can be satisfied that we kicked his arse.


Denying prisoners games consoles and fine single malt whisky is not cruel and unusual (prison is meant to suck)

They commit crimes knowing they will end up in jail - why are we treating them as if they 'accidently' ended up in jail?

We don't remove anyones rights - they choose their own path and choose to have their rights stripped

don;t be a racist mav... it's so unattractive and completely unnecessary. You don;t hate all men because of the rape so how you can justify hating lebanese people is beyond me.

your missing the point. the point is of their feelings about what they did. They are proud of doing it. Proud of raping an aussie woman.
they should be shot/exported

shot/exported/jailed without being allowed to store their sperm

What if the girl had gotten pregnant, that would have been an interesting turn of events.

My point is - most prisoners are in there for minor offences.

right, so they should have a 'minor' sentance.
making it as comfortable as possible is a joke. they'll spend less time thinking about what they've done and more watching tv and enjoying themselves. prison is meant to be a punishment so people REALLY REALLY f***ING REALLY dont want to go to prison..

This is why women shouldnt be in power.. its like argueing with a 2 year old, all you get is cute adorible nonsense

nobody wants to spend a few months locked up in a small building with some retards who failed at life sharing communal showers and having zero privacy

not to mention the nightly involuntary ass raping.

you guys realise, when some of these prisoners, (well most) go into prison to serve time, they come out even harder and rougher than they were..

Go in for traffic offense, come out a dealer.

Great correctional system there.

okay lets go with these thoughts and say the prison system fails to reform people, what is a better solution to deal with those who break laws?

Send them to a distant island.

Stone em to death without blinking

This is why women shouldnt be in power.. its like argueing with a 2 year old, all you get is cute adorible nonsense

That would be true if all women were like that, but they aren't.

Plenty of men who think this s*** is acceptable.

Anyone watch the 'debate' on sunrise sunday? Pfft that hippy bitch needs to shut up

go back to the good old lashing system circa captain cook. nothing more humiliating than being stripped down to your jocks in the queen street mall or down at garden city and having the s*** flogged out of you for 15 mins.

i doubt you would steal another car/handbag/movie after that.

f***ing with their heads by denying them any form of stimuli is just cruel and unnecessary. Yes you'll argue that their crimes were cruel and unnecessary but that is irrelevant.

Single-handedly the dumbest statement in this thread.

Btw infi is on the money there =p bring back the cat of nine tails.

That would be true if all women were like that, but they aren't.

is that all i get Kat? :P was expecting much women hate, but all i got was cuteness

f***ing with their heads by denying them any form of stimuli is just cruel and unnecessary. Yes you'll argue that their crimes were cruel and unnecessary but that is irrelevant.

I agree with this. Who said it?

is that all i get Kat? :P was expecting much women hate, but all i got was cuteness

I see what you did there