The Age is carrying a story today on a meeting of Attorneys-general held yesterday, where Daryl Williams, the Attorney-General declared himself in opposition of any moves for an expansion of the Australian classification system to include a R rating for computer games

The Commonwealth position is that it will not support the expansion of the R18 classification to computer games, in view of the interactive nature of computer games," the spokeswoman said.

"It's appropriate to have a stricter regime in relation to this area ... (as) the likelihood of children gaining access to adult computer games increases if the material is legally available."

This news effectively guarantees that there will not be an R rating in Australia, the reason for the thumbs down from the Attorney-Generals office is somewhat dubious, with the Attorney-General effectively penalising gamers in Australia for the Federal Governments inability to provide classification control at retail level. Check out the full article here. Thanks Vag for submitting that news.

Doom III is in big trouble then.

ineed it is.

oh well. I'll just get my stuff from overseas. If we get enough people doing that, we'll f*** up the economy here. There fault :P

Daryl Williams is dead now, i am going to circle strafe him with my plasma gun while looking at R-rated pr0n.

bah! f***it...doesnt matter anyway.

if a nerd wants something, the nerd will get it!

YOU CANT STOP THE GEEEEKS!

What a load, i bet he doesn't even play games so why should he make a decision on something he has no idea about.

well thats pretty crap.. :/

i agree with strex, if we want it badly enough, we will get it, but it'd be better if they just realised how outdated the rating system is. the article says it quite nicely, they're punishing the consumer for their lack of control over ID checking in stores.

did we expect anything less? especially from such an obviously out of touch beauracrat? this isnt the first luddite decision he's made over the past 12 months and it wont be the last..

They're just gonna increase piracy buy not letting software through.

agreed on the piracy remark, reverend evil... as strex put it "if a nerd wants something, the nerd will get it!"

f*** em, it changes nothing, and just means piracy will be de-vilanised (is that a word? :) ) even more...

I would be f***ing furious if it meant games would be toned down at a design level so they could be sold o the Aussie market but asif they could give a s*** about the market here...

Attorney-General Daryl Williams
Suite MF 19, Parliament House
Canberra, ACT 2600
Tel: (02) 6277 7300
Fax: (02) 6273 4102

I would suggest that you write to the AG in a polite fashion,
informing him that you are not pleased with his decision, and asking
for an explanation as to why he feels that
a) the restriction of games to minors cannot be enforced in a similar fashion to videos or DVDs
b) he should override the recommendations of the OFLC, and the wishes of a large section of
the community.

Thanks Vagabond, i'll do that tonight.

Time to stick it to the man!

As much as I love my country, How the f*** does one old wanker have to power to do this?

Wish I was his granchild, cause he wouldnt be getting any xmas presents from me this year!!

I don't see why Doom 3 will be in big trouble. Most of the games that are refused classification are refused on the grounds of excessive sex, or sex and violence - which was the problem with GTA3. I don't think Doom 3 will have much sex in it. And if Soldier of Fortune 2 can get classified over here, then surely anything can - I can't think of anything more violent than that. Doom 3 is about scaring people, not about grossing them out with innards and gouts of blood.

There just aren't that many games that are RC over here (unless, of course, they just don't make the papers). If they were RC, then it would almost certainly because of sex/violence combinations.

Of course, what other people are saying in this thread are true - if a game is RC over here, it is going to become an instant celebrity, and if people can't rush out to buy it, then they'll just rush out and pirate it. Ultimately the developers and publishers are going to suffer here, but I suppose the argument there is "don't make games that are likely to be RC" - something which most developers seem to do already.

vagabond, I live in Canberra, I think I'll whack him over the head with a rolled up news paper for being a moronic fool.

I heard someone say that it was illegal to own a game that is refused classifaction. This would mean we cant do a mass import, ala Dark Age of Camelot.
Also, do our counter-parts in New Zealand have a R rating?

is this a new Paragon on QGL?

or did the little man move? :)

I didn't think BMXXX had sex or violence. Just 1 naked female.

I thought it was RC because it was stupid though :)

paragon - Also, do our counter-parts in New Zealand have a R rating?

Yes, they do, thats why this whole issue is f***ed. If NZ has it, we should have had it before them!

if all fails..
import from NZ!

indeed

mtx knows his stuff

It is my understanding of the classification guidelines that
any computer game that includes nudity that show the genetalia
(either gender) that is not for educational purposes, would fall into the R
category, and is therefore Refused Classification by the OFLC under the
current guidelines. (can't remember where I read that)

So on that basis BMX XXX was RC because it has the option of your character model being
a completely naked chick. (I have no idea how detailed the model is, there also appears to be
FMV of strippers in the game as well, so maybe they objected to the nudity that may be in that)
I can't find anywhere that actually mentions the specific reasons for the OFLCs decision.

http://www.oflc.gov.au/PDFs/BMXxxxRC.pdf

the report into BMX XXX and why it was Refused Classification.

It basically says the only reason it was is because R18+ doesn't exist.

Yeh, that's a fair enough complaint - nudity is allowed in movies, it should be allowed in games. But you get nudity in MA15+ movies, and I hardly think games are "interactive" enough to warrant saying that you can't rate a game MA15+ just because it has some low-poly breasts

Ok going to fax Attorney-General Daryl Williams this:

Dear Sir,
I am writing to you to express my extreme shock and disappointment in your decision to not expand the OLFC’s classification range to include an R18+ classification for mature age digital entertainment. Your decision has upset many people including many mature age computer gamers – like myself – whose only wish is to enjoy computer games as they were meant to be.

According The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/11/07/1036308422568.html), your spokeswoman said the one of the main reason you rejected the proposal for a R18+ Classification for Computer Software was “the likelihood of children gaining access to adult computer games increases if the material is legally available.” I fail to see how computer software would be any different from magazines, alcohol, videos or movies. Why do you feel that classification of the proposed material has such a link with the policing of that material? If a store sells alcohol to a minor then the store gets fined. If a newsagent sells an R18+ magazine to a minor then the store gets fined. Could you explain why a system like this could not be incorporated into stores that sell computer software?

The other reason given by your spokeswoman was "The Commonwealth position is that it will not support the expansion of the R18 classification to computer games, in view of the interactive nature of computer games." Keeping in mind that 18-year-old Australians can join the Army go to war – how old do you think an Australian adult would have to be to accept violence and sex in a virtual, interactive form?

In conclusion I would ask you to consider these questions in hope of making you see the other side of your argument.

Sincerely,

AJ

-------------

What do you guys think? Do I need to say more?

What a moron this joker is. Can't he see that some games that *should* have a R18+ rating are getting MA15 simply because there is no R rating?

Somebody slap the fool and wake him up. :o

Welldone Aydam

f***ing retarded hypocrisy!!

I dont really like lots of sex and violence in my games ~ but thats me but if some dude is actually over 18 and he wants it ..it's fine by me and most other ppl.

If u allow R rated films u should allow R rated games.

There is some wierd perception that if its a game that little kids will want to play it!?!?! Why ? They have R rated manga cartoons. And Cartoons are always seen as kids entertainment so why are they picking on games?

I dont understand stupid ppl~

I so wish I was Superman and I could put an end to rubbish like this. We need to cleanse out the old people from Parliament and fill it with younger people. This country is not going anywhere becuase these old rat-bastards wont leave Parliament and give the important jobs to the people who are more qualified.

Makes me angry and very upset.

doom3 is in trouble.. this is 1 of the games that i actually want to buy ( other than my beloved quake series ), if they RC that game, there will be trouble.

I was going to say basically what everyone else already has... So I won't. I'll just thank whoever it was for posting the AGs address, I plan on writing to him and making the points directly. Thanks dude.

BTW, does anyone have any info on the typical age of gamers? I'm sure I've read that the average age of gamers is actually 18+ anyway - but I'd like hard facts to back that up.

Research by Sony showed that the average age of its players is 22, with one third being 30 or older. (taken from the review of the classification guidelines - http://www.oflc.gov.au/PDFs/brand.pdf )

Thanks poiuty. That was exactly what I was looking for. Cheers :)

"the likelihood of children gaining access to adult computer games increases if the material is legally available."


Not as likely as a child seeing war on television depicting real life GORE and more, not as Likely as accessing their fathers porn or reading porn in a shop.

This shows how narrowminded our government is.

We are not all 14year old kids playing games this is why we need the rating for Adult games, the games are no more offending if not less offending then seeing something like dead bodies of children and woman on TV, Kids get exposed this this all the time and it can damage their self esteem or turn them into monstors, either way its pathetic to blame everything on computer games, think some of these people need some real shock theropy!

Basicly it comes down to that Blood/Guts/Gore is acceptable but if at any stage a human body is shown naked its offlimits, least in computer games sake..... This is very offencive its like giving a image that the human body is something to be ashamed of, althought I know some games have some disrespect to it, it still is no different to easily accessable porn that children can get to..


Ell well lets just create a massive black market for the stuff then :)

Fire in the hole!, Yeeehaaaaw!

a) the restriction of games to minors cannot be enforced in a similar fashion to videos or DVDs

"because of their interactive nature" :< you cant controll the main star in a dvd to go driving when you want him too....the directors do...we are not allowed to choose you see, we have to be led like the sheep we are.

Fat rule makers who have no idea or experience of the rules they are making 1
people 0

After 200 years we still cant do things that we want to do (be entertained the way we want to be entertained without harming anyone)

This is for our own protection of course kiddies...when in fact the younger generation is more observant and sensitised to reality than the polititions and older generations are who like to not think about things like dying.

Ignorence gives them a warm fuzzy pointless 70 years of life on this planet controlling other peoples choices (they have to get their happyness and feelings of importance somehow)

Apart from the interaction factor what is the difference between an 18+ movie and what would be classed as an 18+ game. There seems to be f***ing none that I can see at all.

edit:

Something that I find ironic is that when We the youth of Australia come to power in one way or another, the first thing I would be doing is selectively cutting these same f***wits down to size by cutting off their pentions / medication. If they feel the need to discriminate against us by being total oblivious to what we want, we should do the same, in the future.

As the saying goes an Eye for an Eye.

well if i can't buy the game here i'll download it of winmx! problem solved DARYL "FAGGET" WILLIAMS

ooooo I think that they have no idea what they are doing; they probably haven't even played the games.

DOES ANY ONE KNOW OF ANY NEW ZEALAND GAME SHOP WEBSITES

I can ask some friends that live in NZ for ya

You could try http://www.gpstore.co.nz/product.x?1456727

Well I got a fax back from the AG's office today. It reads as follows (sorry about any errors, my OCR software had a bit of trouble with the quality of the fax):

Dear (Aydam)
I refer to your facsimile of 8 November 2002 to the Attorney-General, the Hon Daryl Williams AM QC MP regarding; an R classification for computer games. The Attorney-General has asked that I respond on his behalf. I apologise for the delay in my response.

As you may be aware, the Office of Film and Literature Classification has recently finalised a review of the classification guidelines for films and computer games. Such reviews are undertaken from time to time to ensure that the guidelines continue to reflect community standards. The review process generally includes submissions from the public in response to public advertisements.

One of the issues considered in the review was whether there should be an R classification for computer games_ At their November 2002 meeting, Classification Ministers declined to introduce a Clew classification for computer games that are restricted to adults. On balance, not all Ministers were satisfied that children would not access games classified as suitable for adults. All Ministers must agree to any changes to the guidelines.

The current scheme for computer games commenced in 1994. At that time the highest classification for computer games Was set at MA(15+) due to concerns about the 'interactive' nature. of computer panics and the impact on, and potential for harm to, minors. Computer games that exceed the criteria in MA(15+) must be classified RC (refused classification) and cannot be sold, hired, demonstrated or advertised in Australia.
Although there is now more research available about the effects of interactivity, it is complex and inconclusive. A summary of research on the influences of media violence Published in 2001 by the UNESCO Clearinghouse on Children and Violence on the Screen stated that there were still too few studies oil the influence of computer games to draw any safe conclusions about their effects_

Research commissioned by the OFLC: across a representative sample of the Australian population indicates that 78%% of 14-17 year olds play computer games compared to 35% of those over 18 years of age. Almost half of the 14-17 year olds sampled play computer games regularly (once a week or more).

Given the high proportion of young game-players, the government is of the view that
issues of access to adult-rated computer games combined with continuing uncertainty about the effects of computer games, warrant [lie decision not to introduce an adult R classification for computer games.
I hope this information assists you. Yours sincerely


Des Clark
Director
18 March 2003

I fail to see how they feel computer games are any more widely available to minors than any retail thing. Anything with classification could be sold to minors or could be past on to minors just as much as computer games. Ridiculous. Joke a reason from the attorny general... whatever. Most will still get it if they want it so as said above, it really changes nothing other than my view about the pople who make the decisions.

tits? man I remember playing duke3d with mates & there were dancers in that with titties showing. Duke 3d was awsome

Most will still get it if they want it so as said above, it really changes nothing other than my view about the pople who make the decisions.

Exactly, what a stupid justification.

It's like saying alcohol should be illegal because the effects it has on minors are too dangerous.
Alcohol is a beverage, our studies indicate that 30% of minors regularly drink beverages!

It really worries me that the people making important decisions about our the way the country is run are so completely out of touch with reality.

me thinks aus gov is realy just representing there own belifes and not representing the australian people as a hole... ie wen howard ignored the demonstraters on the street and said, "my choice will not be changed by illinformed people about going to war with iraq"(just an example) goes to show how the government is "representing us"
/end rant