Hey guys, thought I'd throw this one out there and see what the QGL brains come up with. I'm one of the shift supervisors where I work, and had my production manager come up to me yesterday and told me that I had to many holiday hours saved up (about 6 weeks worth) and the upper management want me to use some of them up. I thought about it and thought I'd try my luck for the first two weeks of Janurary so I filled out a Leave Request Form and handed it straight to my manager ,he approved it and updated our site holiday calander to show my being off that time.
The fun started tody when the Production Supervisor (Lower on the chain of command than the Production Manager but higher than me) told me she didn't like the idea of me having that time off and she's going to cancel it.
Now I'd like to know where I stand from a legal point as my leave has been approved (I have no plans as of yet as to what I'm going to do, but I have decided that I really want this time off) but the Production Manager has now taken time off himself and can't be reached and this bitch is now running the show? I've checked out the wageline website and tried to find something about leave and it being cancelled but have had no luck. Thoughts anyone?

Does your company have HR department? If so go and talk to them. Also who did this Production Manager delegate his responsibilities to when he was away? If its the supervisor then you are probably boned.

I'd probably be a bit narky if they told me to take leave and then cancel it when you try and take it.

I am just waiting for HR to get onto me for having 7 weeks of annual leave saved.

his PM is his HR


:(


union won't help here - it'll come down to the deal you struck when you signed your employment contract. (ie you are rooted)


when your Production Manager comes back from leave he can say 'sorry pleb' and give what is entitled (no he doesn't have to do any more than that) though if you don't like it - and no you aren't supposed to... s/he expects to turn you over (it's called staff turnover).


in short - you're an employee... you're at the whim of your employer, and if you had bargained for this job, you would have been beaten by someone else who was as unaware as you were when you signed up.


this sucks man... you used to be our (OVERpaid security guy at the computer shop I worked at). you guys should never--*EVER*-- have been bent over like this.

were you drunk when you wrote that koopz?

I don't think you'll lose your holidays, you just won't get them in Jan. Talk to the bitchy manager and see if you can change the 2 weeks for a time that suits her better. Of course that's after telling her that her boss is the one that approved it.

I would plainly say exactly what I said at work here: (verbatim from the staff meeting minutes) "f*** off c***s I am on break its been approved and submitted 6 months ago. If you f***ing fairies decided to apply some forethought to your leave requests then you wouldn't be s*** out of luck. Also I will have no phone no internet no computer and no power over the break, more than likely I will be drunk or snorting crack off a hookers arse or quite possibly both. So if something breaks your pretty much fuct, personally I would pray now for a xmas miracle, so (HARD DONE BY STAFF MEMBER COMPLAINING) there is that forethought thing I mentioned earlier, Oh yeah and because I will be on leave and won't see you until the 5th I would like to say merry xmas to all you guys"

On a separate note I imagine that the ever so slightly higher than you person wanted those days off, I would file it in the tough f***ing s*** its been approved basket, keep these cards up your selves. Play the its not my fault it was a management decision as my accrued leave has become a liability for the company card. Followed by the how about you pay out my leave and I have the stat days off only card, then in the middle claim to come down with food poisoning from a dodgy Xmas prawn. Doctors cert and your golden and the bitch gets f***ed sixty ways from Sunday = Profit

I'd be reasonable, is your production manager away during those two weeks? Does that mean not only you will be away but also the PM. Is there specific reasons as to why the PS wants to cancel the leave?

once you're on approved leave tell them to get f***ed.

Do you know who can answer this question and provide support in any kind of industrial support? ...your union

I agree with Infi, if you have approved leave (especially if it has been a physically signed form) I would pretty much be telling them to get f***ed. Of course I'd say it in a way that I would be able to keep my job =]

once you're on approved leave tell them to get f***ed.

yeah they can't retract it. tell them you've already bought the plane tickets and they have to cover the costs if they really want you to work.

then go book the most expensive ass tickets u can find if they agree.

I'm still waiting for my holidays :( nearly 18 months and none!!

Everyone else has had them !! BUT ME!!|

But yeah, when you sign things like that etc, its like a contract.

You cant just change your mind!

Already been approved signed sealed and delivered. They can't go back on their word.

I, being in management myself, would probably prefer an employee to approach me and tell me how they feel so i had an opportunity to fix things personally before anything else.

How ever, if she is not the kind of person that is willing to help others and maintain morale in her work place, i would approach the next person up the food chain for advice on the matter. Be factual not emotional and it will usually get fixed.

Knowing how upper echelons of management in companies work i would expect there are things happening that your probably not privy to, and would warrant the cancellation of your leave to a latter date. As s***ty as that is..

I's try talking to her, saying you already have X booked and non-refundable etc.
When does your PM come back? Before you are due to go on your holidays?

I would ask her for reasons as to why she wants to cancle the leave and if i'm unsatasfied with those reasons (i.e. they are her personal reasons and not legit bussiness ones) I would go above her head. If there was strong legit bussiness reasons compelling me to stay, and I had nothing actually planned other then having my hand down my pants for 2 weeks, I would probably organise to take my leave at a later date.

In the end though, you have an approved signed and noted Leave application, so if you really want, take the leave.

Depends on how much you want those holidays.

You were in fact asked to take them, without that, you probably wouldn't have. Now they've been cancelled, how pissed are you?

I've been a casual for most of my life, so have not experience this. I negotiate any time off otherwise, and it's for a reason (party, see family, etc). Seems to me you have nothing planned.

Ask your boss why they need you to work and decide in your own mind if the reason is good enough. If it's not, you were asked to take leave, it was approved leave and you're taking it. If they have a good enough reason, negotiate the two week period after that. If they say no to THAT, then tell them where to go, there's no way you are needed for an entire month, you want leave for once damnit!

don't take the holidays

Wait till the guy on holidays comes back

Complain about ho

She loses her job

You get promoted to her job

Profit

It all comes down to much you are worth to the company.

You can tell them, nope it's been approved and I'm going k thx bi if you think you are worth something. They'll just take it on the chin.

If not, well bend over and do what they say.

So do you have the balls to stand up to what you want?

the only reaon upper management wants you to use holidays is to improve the bottom line for this month - else they would bitch about it around march

if they told u to take some they meant this month most prob.. now u want them in jan they prol dont care anymore

take some over chrissy and keep everyone happy

I've always had the view of

its your leave

you're entitled to take it whenever the f*** suits you, not the company.

Yer i wouldnt let your company know you're looking into union support and legal mumbo jumbo, would put a bad taste into upper managements mouth once returned from holidays..

Who has been working there longer, you or her? and what age difference?

I'm with hardware. Leave is an entitlement. I think you need a very very good reason not to approve someone's leave. If it's less than a very very good reason I would be letting everyone know how unhappy you are.

Is it possible to go up the chain? Because that is the first thing I would be doing.

Really you should have made up some story on the spot how you have flights booked and paid for and that it would cost you too much money to have the leave retracted.

you're allowed to refuse leave on reasonable grounds. However, I'm yet to hear of any employer succeeding with any reasonable grounds.

An example may be something like an ATO customer service manager during July. But even then, I'd doubt that would be reasonable.

It's been approved. I would ask her to show cause as to why it is critical for you to be there for those 2 weeks. I believe they would have to seek your approval to cancel it anyways, just in the same way you had to seek approval to take it. I've had a similar situation here at work recently - grudgingly rescinded my time off between 29-31 December because I was the only one in the team without solid plans. They asked me to do it rather than telling me I had to. If I wanted to dig in I could have, but realistically I am just going to sit here for 3 days watching the cricket, so no biggie.

short answer: no

long answer: depends.

Depending what industry you are in and contract signed, company policies etc you may need to take some. For example the company I worked for in funds management enforced each employee to take 2 weeks consecurive leave a year - this was to reduce single man dependency and additionally to mitigate against fraud.

It could be worse, in Ireland I had nearly 6 weeks annual leave a year (which is awesome) however the policy (and it's written into contracts) is that leave CAN NOT be carried forward at ALL i.e. I had to use all of my leave. I didn't mind as I was over there to travel as well as work, but if I had been a local I'd have found it s***ty as there is only so many places to go. And if you were planning a 8 week trip or whatever overseas they didn't give a f*** the leave had to be taken.

Also as superform eluded to; annual leave is a liability on a the P&L and most companies want to minimise the annual leave each employee to mitigate the financial impact.

You won't lose them.

Your level of pissedness is proportional to what you had planned to do in those 2 weeks.. if you had nothing on, then make a big stink about having to cancel your leave but drop the line "But being a team player I'm happy to give up my holiday at the last minute provided I see some reasonable compensation" and if you do have plans then say you need to take the leave.

i'd say the people who are suggesting it will depend on your contract are correct.

heardy's right, in most corporate/big business environments most employees (with responsibilities worth worrying about) are obligated to take a certain amount of leave each year as an accounting/HR control against fraud, unauthorised transactions, etc.

what do you think will be the reaction of the production manager when he gets back and sees that his subordinate has directly contradicted an action which he approved with little to no justification for doing so? because if there isn't a decent explanation for it i'd be inclined to think that the supervisor could be overstepping her authority in this case and might get herself in trouble. that could be some small consolation for you :-).

edit: i'm no accountant but the P&L doesn't show liabilities, that's the balance sheet (iirc, which i bloody well hope i do) :D

last edited by taggs at 10:26:43 18/Dec/09