So after wondering why Crysis looked strangely like dithered 16-bit on my 8800GTS in 32-bit mode and after a lot of Googling it turns out that most affordable or fast LCDs are actually a 6-bit per colour displays which use hardware dithering.

I have an LG 22" L226WTQ-BF Flatron and it's been the monitor all along doing the dithering (6-bit TN display) despite the lge.com.au telling me otherwise "Supported Colours : 16.7M Colours". I don't know how I didn't notice it before, but after playing Crysis again I was trying to figure out why it looked so mediocre even on high settings!

So basically this 'true colour' LG monitor I bought for $400 8 months ago is actually a 262K colour screen... Who woulda thought.

Turns out that a true 24-bit LCD is actually either going to be over 20ms or rather expensive (say, twice the usual cost).

Anyway, if this is old news then oh well. At least I know now to spend double than what I would normally pay [msn-thumbs-down-emot]

Yeah most of the budget 22" LCDs are based off the same 6bit panel that the Chimei's are made from. My preference of the 22" LCDs are the Samsungs.

Yerp syncmaster ftw

care less, crysis still looks awesome:

ive only just got around to playing it, and im realy enjoying it

Even the blue shades on this forum are just out of 6-bit's range and I can see faint dithering :(

At least I know my 8800 is working fine haha.

Syncmaster ftw

They are true 24-bit panels are they?

last edited by 3dee at 16:02:15 24/Aug/08

it turns out that most affordable or fast LCDs are actually a 6-bit per colour displays which use hardware dithering.

Yep always been like that. 2 years ago I paid a premium ($700) for my proper 8-bit Viewsonic screen with wide viewing angle. Apart from the fact that it's 19", it still pretty much owns all regular monitors out there now apart from the higher-end Dells.

despite the lge.com.au telling me otherwise "Supported Colours : 16.7M Colours".

That should be illegal, since it's plain wrong if it's really a 6-bit screen.

They generally claim 16.2M colours for a 6-bit screen, to sort of take into account the virtual colours formed from dithering. Sure it was still deceptive as dithering is not easy to measure since it's based on human perception, but at least you could tell the screens apart from the specs (16.2 vs 16.7M colours quoted).

I could go on and on about the deceptive practices .. like how they change the metric deliberately when quoting viewing angles to make crap LCDs sound better on paper.

last edited by parabol at 16:27:44 24/Aug/08

Why is the word 'Googling' in OP a different font from all the rest?

Just felt like making it Georgia font.... No useful real reason.

I've got the LG L1970H, I don't notice any dithering on QGL. Is 6-bit colour supposed to be quite noticable?

Do a fullscreen gradient test. If its 6-bit you'll notice it. QGL isn't the best example. I just noticed that I could see very faint dithering on some of the colours (such as the dark blue in the thread table).

EDIT** actually here's a macro shot of a dithered 6-bit panel.

http://www.geocities.com/icecow88/img/970p-dithering/szurkeatmenet-en.jpg

last edited by 3dee at 16:49:33 24/Aug/08

That's why gfx people still use pro CRT, that or they'll have to shell out of high end / pro LCD.

Yeah. I'm just amazed I didn't notice it before especially in Crysis. Bad thing is now I see the dithering everywhere :(

I wonder if OLEDs have the same problem?

That's why gfx people still use pro CRT, that or they'll have to shell out of high end / pro LCD.

The graphics guys at my work use those sweet 24" dells that go for 700 or 800 a pop. I'm guessing they're full 8-bit?

nice work 3dee! awesome investigative skills

yeah whiplash and I did a fair bit of research into this.

basically you got 3 different panel technologies:
TN is cheapest, fastest response panel, but from what we found is only ever 6 bit. The viewing angle on these is terrible, thus some of these panels that are on rotating stands have the 90deg rotation locked off so ppl dont complain about the viewing angle when they turn the panel vertical. I believe all panels < 24" and most 24" panels these days are TN.

MVA / PVA is more expensive, commonly 8 bit, good viewing angle, but has a much slower response thus input lag is a common complaint.

Finally, you have IPS, which is by far the most expensive (commonly 3x TN panel cost). They are also commonly 8 bit, with good viewing angle, but are known to suffer from ghosting issues and still aren't as fast a response as TN.

So based on this, whip and I both purchased the Samsung SyncMaster 245b+. Its still a TN panel, still 6 bit, but was only $419. We decided that as we are both anal about input lag, the TN was the best option.

Whiplash will correct me if any of this is inaccurate.

ps: I believe they get away with saying they support 16.7m colours by supporting the input of 16.7m colours. Doesn't mention output at all :\

last edited by Any at 18:38:09 24/Aug/08

last edited by Any at 18:51:41 24/Aug/08

dell ultrasharp 2408WFP is my favourite monitor

Yeah its the MVA/PVA panel. Too many people complained about input lag with that one, coupled with the fact you can't try before you buy and its $700 or so is too much to gamble.

People claim that the $700 Viewsonic model I have (VP930B) has ghosting, but I found it to be pretty minor and only an issue in dark games (doom3 and dark cs awp nests lol) and after a day or two I stopped noticing it. In fact in TF2 and normal games it's not even an issue.

(if only it weren't 19" @ 5:4 ratio .. sigh)

last edited by parabol at 20:37:07 24/Aug/08

Note: input lag != ghosting.

Ah ok, I find heaps of people use the term "lag" when referring to ghosting. Didn't realise you meant actual lag. Anyone want to explain what the issue is .. is it just a delay rendering stuff or what?

yeah lag is basically the time from when you move your mouse, to when you see the cursor move on screen. most TN panels these days give a response time around 4ms g-g I think. The way they measure is a bit dodgy sometimes.

For comparison, whip did a bit of investigation, and found his Bravia lcd has a response time of 60ms, putting it in the realm of the IPS panels. I think the MVA/PVA panels sit at around 40ms.

dell ultrasharp 2408WFP is my favourite monitor

That's what I've got too.

I played through Crysis this weekend. Game was awesome until the stupid floating alien cave mission, then it goes down hill real quick. You can tell the later parts of the game were poorly play tested - it's pretty buggy. When the credits rolled up at the end of the game I was totally lost, I thought I was about halfway through the game.

I think the quoted response times (eg. 4ms g-to-g) are meant to be a measure of ghosting, not input lag. So strictly speaking, my Bravia has 60ms input lag (not 'response time'). Not sure about it's ghosting performance... It's all very confusing :\

I think the 'input lag' around *VA panels has something to do with their anti-ghosting processing, not sure though, more research required.

All this said, S-IPS panels may be fine with regards to input lag, but their response times could be their downside (ghosting). Not sure as I don't own one.

last edited by Whiplash at 08:39:59 25/Aug/08

last edited by Whiplash at 08:40:29 25/Aug/08

i use a dell 2408wfp at work & i reckon it's not as good as my samsung 226bw i use at home. the dell has crappy contrast & it can be hard to tell similar contrast pastel colours apart on it that are really obviously different on my samsung.