Do any of you know someone or are involved in a network marketing company/pyramid schemes (such as amway (or now known as A2K) or ACN?)

Next question, do any of you know someone involved in one of these companies who actually makes a livable income out of it?

I've had people try and sign me up to these, but they are either starting out themselves and have made nothing but believe its going to be their key to financial freedom, or will not tell me how much they are making (ie.. nothing)

I also have a manager who'd be on a fairly comfortable wage who has been in the amway practise for over 5 years, and tries to sell it to everybody he meets and spends about 15/hrs per week on marketing it (so 5*52*15=3900hrs.. with his wage at about $45/hr would be around $175,500 that he hasn't received). Then there is the countless coffees, lunches, dinners, phone calls,etc that he pays for - and he's mentioned 'i wish i had like an extra $2000 come in each month to help out with the bills' - which would say to me that he is earning a lot less than $2000pm from it.

So im just interested to hear of people who aren't advertising these businesses tell whether they personally know someone who is involved and does make money out of it (a real amount, not like $100/month)..?

few years back wifey and some mates got signed up (network 21)

they did it for a few months before they realised it was s***

when we bought our house, it turned out the amway queen bee super diamond lives next door

they have a very nice house, with a pool, and we dont think they work

every saturday morning, they have their deciples show up and they have pep talks out the back

id say they are doing pretty well

lolz, rest of the street hates them though and they didnt get invited to the street xmas party

pyramid schemes are f***ing gay and I hate people that are in that s*** cause you are next.

you have a street christmas party.....

^^ fancy estate type places usually do but I'd hardly call it a party in most cases. It's usually just everyone standing around drinking and talking, more of a get together really.

Pyramid schemes work and do earn you a lot of money if you're at the top of the ladder but for everyone else it's just a load of horse s***. Someone I know was in one and didn't even realize it. I told him no dude I'm not buying this s*** it's a pyramid scheme and he's all like no no no it's not a pyramid scheme because they're illegal and I don't break the law.

...

whatever mate.

nah whoop it's called a pipeline now, just extend it on a bit and it starts making a fairly familiar shape...

In order to succeed at this sort of thing you need to destroy your personal social network by either turning your friends and family into drones or driving them away by trying to.

People who aspire to become Amway Diamonds should just come up with a plan and start a real business. Sure there's no gravy train easy money in it but it is the only real way to true financial independence. If the Diamonds had put as much effort into a traditional business as their Amway gig they could have made as much money and not ended up a pariah.

this s*** is perfect for church goers, where you have a large audience and people have to be nice to you or face eternal damnation, so they HAVE to listen to your lame spiels

and yer, our street rox, i went, got blind, talked s*** and found out my neighbours first names

it was awesome

http://www.jibjab.com/view/60553
http://www.ugoto.com/video_the-office---pyramid-scheme.html

damn NBC removing the links from youtube

the trusty trapezoid

Not Amway... Consolidated Products

Hey there Jerry. Yeah I know of ppl who actually make money from network marketing. Knew them as a child but did not know much about it back then.
First of all the important thing is its not for everyone. That is why the high end of the scale people do so well. If you have read ROBERT KIYOSAKI'S Cashflow Quadrant you will understand why people do this & also if you have read WHY WE WANT YOU WANT TO BE RICH- By Donald Trump & Robert Kiyosaki you will also understand why people get involved.
Secondly we are all involved in network marketing whether we realise it or not. I never looked at it this way until someone pointed it out.
An example you go to movies & tell your mates to go see, or you buy something so good, you tell your mates they must have it. Car stereo, new alcoholic drink is a good example, phones, games, cars etc, I could go on for hours.
My parents got involved when I was a kid. I know of 2 people in the industry who do well. I know of them I know personally: they are quite far up in the ranks I guess you could say. The two guys I know, one has two properties here in WA, one being a waterfront on the canals, with his boat on his jetty outside. His other house is just a go between. He has not worked for over 12 years which is quite impressive. Spends nearly everyday playing golf; which is pretty sweet. He is on a quite impressive income, we are talking 6 Figure income. The other guy lives in VIC. His on 6 figure income also. He has not worked for ages either. He spends most of his time away on holidays; doing bush bashes, he did that charity bush bash drive thing round oz. Some people also get involved & give half of their money away to charity. People get involved for good things. I have the chance to meet up with them on a very regular basis.
As I got older I researched network marketing as I thought my parents were being stupid. To my suprise it was the best thing my father could have done.
He was the strictest father in the world, no open mind at all. He has changed for the better.
Some people have bad experiences, some dont but I guess its a test of true character whether you are cut out for it or not. Business is tough. There is no doubt about it. I am here to give a ADVICE FOR THOSE CONSIDERING WO YOU CAN MAKE A CHOICE. If you have ever studied business stuff you will realise that business you need to spend money to make money. Any costs also become tax deductions. Very handy tool. With amway I know for a fact you can get any tax info from the ATO website.
The biggest thing in network marketing is you need to be a dedicated individual, be disciplined, not get sucked into watching TV every night, people call some network marketing cults as they think it takes over their lives, however from an outsider who is open minded TV & video games could be viewed by some as "brainwashers", maybe church or gym junkies could be to??????????as they take control over people also as that is all they want to do. In life there will always be something viewed as brainwashing by someone. If we were all the same then it would be pretty boring.
Network marketing is a bit like an apprenticeship. You have to start from scratch to get end result. You dont get your trade cert 3 months after starting. It takes others longer, depending on what they have to learn & I know from my parents experience there is heaps to learn. My dad had no people skills and to get where he is now he had like 7 years of learning. OUCH....But results worth it. Like an apprenticeship not at all easy, but if you have persistence go for it.
An analogy I could use is "an athlete has their mind on the end result" Network marketing is the same. WIth an athlete It could be winning a marathon as an example. They have to go through the pain of training & missing out on TV & adhering to a strict diet & take all the BS from the media about how they were seen doing this wrong or that etc etc. Success does not come easy.
There is someone always bagging someone for having a go, its part of human nature today; we focus on all the BS in the world, it sells so that = $$$$ but what you need to remember money makes the world go round so if someone is arguing against something someone else is doing, that is also opportunity for someone else to make money. Like if someone goes oh once I did this and it did not work and they write a book interesting enough for people to buy it they will- hey presto money is made. Do you see what I am trying to say? Someone somewhere makes profits from their bad experiences, not just money wise but learning wise as well.
A network system I know a bit about has big ties with Microsoft & IBM, so those guys are raking in even more $$$. Those guys are smart.
Networks save lots of money on advertising. Today companies are always looking how to save $$$, network companies were smart to figure out this is the way to go.
With some network marketing companies I know for a fact the money is totally willable to their estate, so if your lucky enough to have parents involved & you know its not for you, then I would suggest encourage your parents to work their butts off as much as they can, as hopefully you will have the money left to you..In my case I know so....(hint hint, nudge, nudge)For those who lose friends over it, either the party involved pushed it to hard on others or they were never really good friends to start with anyway or dont understand the context of self development. A true test of friendships are those who stick by you regardless what you do.
My best advice for those considering is to do some homework. Read the books suggested above. If you understand them & like them, then I would say its probably something you should look into. If you go to a meeting, then I suggest going a few times. I go with my parents to meetings just so I can appreciate & understand what is going on.
TRUTH of NETWORKING......
IT WONT BE EASY & ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.
IF YOU CANT DEAL WITH THE FACT SOMETIMES YOUR WRONG THEN ALREADY DONT BOTHER, IF YOU CANT DEAL WITH REJECTION DONT BOTHER, IF YOU DONT LIKE TO READ DONT BOTHER, IF YOU CANT GET AWAY FROM YOUR STUPID TV DONT BOTHER, IF YOU ARE NOT DEDICATED, COMMITTED, OPEN MINDED, POSITIVE, AN ENTERPRENAUER
I WILL REPEAT DO NOT EVEN BOTHER. YOU WILL BLAME YOUR LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT NOT WORKING......I SEE PEOPLE DO IT ALL THE TIME....IF YOURE A WIMP AND DONT LIKE CHANGE DONT EVEN BOTHER.
I am a bit of what you call "think I know it all sometimes" however since associating with the people my parents do, I have come to realise sometimes we bag our closest friends for having a go cause we fear if we are wrong then we have to face that fear hey our friends were right & I was wrong. I bagged my parents when I was young but I admire their courage. Its hard to admit sometimes your wrong, I HATE being wrong. I think young people like me hate admiting their parents are quite smart.
I have also realised how many lazy irresponsible people exist in this world, my parents have opened my eyes.
Its my future my parents are investing their time in & I cant thank them enough. Cause soon I will be lazing on a deck chair in the caribbean or somewhere nice & reaping the benefits of living in the nice house they purchase & the cars they drive so THANKYOU PARENTS FOR COPPING ALOT OF BS.

^^ HOLY LOL BATMAN! ^^

best 1st post evar

also fantac ur a fag go away with ur pyramid scheme rubbish, you scum. DIE

That huge wall of text and he forgot to post his affiliate link. (I'm assuming he was selling some pyramid scheme bs, I didn't read it)
Haha i just scanned it and about every place my eyes fell i saw some pyramid buzzphrase.

last edited by Bah at 03:18:33 11/Jan/08

i feel the urge to buy some plastic container type thing that i can store rotten food in...

any advice?

FantaC, if your parents had put *all* their free time into further education and hard work they would have made infinitely more money than some bulls*** pyramid scheme. Hard to swallow in your boots but the truth.

I make a 6 figure income from Amway, without selling a thing.

Oh wait, thats cos I work for Alticor, the parent company of Amway, running their regional IT infrastructure for AU/NZ/ZA.

amway products are actually quite good

if i could buy them in a shop and the shop was convenient to my house and no one talked to me about amway while i was in the shop, i would probably buy them

Spook, Amway is moving to somewhat of a retail model atm... am currently ordering the IT systems for the gold coast and perth retail outlets and business centres. The loganholme centre in gold coast will probably be a bit far for brisbanites tho :/

I make a 6 figure income from Amway, without selling a thing.

Could I interest you in some Golden Goats??? They're cut price at the moment, i'm running them out for only 600k each!!

Alticor Inc. and its family of companies reported sales of $6.3 billion for the 2006 performance year, which ended December 31.

Sales declined slightly from $6.4 billion in 2005. Company officials attributed the dip to a period of regulatory uncertainty that chilled sales in China, the company's largest direct selling market. However, Amway (China) Co. Ltd. received its direct selling license December 1, 2006, leaving company officials optimistic that China sales will return to growth this year.

Amway
Amway, a global leader in the $102 billion direct selling industry, saw 45 of 55 affiliate markets post sales increases this year. Noteworthy increases were registered in Europe, where sales rose 42 percent, led by new markets Russia and Ukraine.

More than 70 percent of the company's sales come from Asia. Strong performers in 2006 included the Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore. Korea sales increased by 4 percent, while Japan sales declined.

Sales for Amway (China) Co. Ltd. (ACCL) declined 23 percent from 2005, but China continues to be Amway's largest individual market with more than 180,000 active sales representatives and more than 180 retail shops and service centers.

Said Van Andel: "We lowered our sales targets in China last year, knowing that our sales force would be distracted until our license was granted. The resolution of the China issue gives us great optimism, and we expect ACCL to continue to lead the direct selling marketplace in China."

Latin America had an overall solid performance, with especially strong sales this year in Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador and Puerto Rico.

Said DeVos: "We set out a couple of years ago to concentrate our efforts on improving the performance of our existing markets, and we're now seeing the fruits of those efforts," said DeVos. "As a result, more customers throughout the world are discovering the great products and services we provide."

Jesus f***, clearly pyramid scams work.

I best get onto it, stat!

last edited by HeardY at 08:52:22 11/Jan/08

I had someone trying to get me involded. He asked me to visit his place for a business proposal so I asked him what it was about and he wouldn't tell me. I kept at him to tell me what it was about or I wasn't showing up. In the end he sent me this get rich quick dvd with some crap video on it and the second I received it I kn ew exactly why he wouldn't give me any info about what he wanted to proposed.

Once I saw the dvd arrive, called him up said I am not interested in pyrimid schemes and he wa quite offended.

But seriously people should be considerate towards to the people they are trying to rope in, I am not going to waste a whole nigh of my time getting spoken to about some get rich quick crap when I will never get a profitable cent from it.

FantaC clearly your nic aptly indicates the world you live in. Please go and recruit your drones somewhere else mate.

the worker drones are trained to try and get around mentioning amway and the pyramid schemeyness of it all

mmm golden goats.

ps where are all u guys gone from #ausgamers :(

That huge wall of text and he forgot to post his affiliate link. (I'm assuming he was selling some pyramid scheme bs, I didn't read it)

Hey sorry dude I dont know what the affiliate link is for. Im not that smart when it comes to the net & computers. I usually get everyone else to do it for me. Apologies.

best 1st post evar

Thanks for that; as for the fag comment rather an amazing comment!

FantaC, if your parents had put *all* their free time into further education and hard work they would have made infinitely more money than some bulls*** pyramid scheme. Hard to swallow in your boots but the truth.

You have a valid point about putting free time into further education. All I am trying to say is look I am the most stubborn person in the world. Very abrupt face to face which is why network marketing would be a challenge for me to be involved in. Some people believe they can study & do very well & others cant which is why they choose something like network marketing as its something they believe they can.
My question is what if the people in it are actually right on the mark in the way the world is changing & how products are delivered. You see this is a fencleline topic for me which is why I am open to discussion. An example is Albert Einstein believing he could put bubbles in beer & everyone thought he was off the planet.

amway products are actually quite good

They are the only ones I can use. I am highly allergic to so many things often needing to go to hospital so all I can say is I am glad my parents introduced me to them.

Spook, Amway is moving to somewhat of a retail model atm... am currently ordering the IT systems for the gold coast and perth retail outlets and business centres. The loganholme centre in gold coast will probably be a bit far for brisbanites tho :/

Excellent someone that knows stuff about the business centre side of stuff. My parents had been telling me about it.

I make a 6 figure income from Amway, without selling a thing.

FANTASTIC Boxhead. I bet your mighty happy with that? Are you just an employee of Amway or have you signed as an IBO & got enough people in your leg that you do nothing but your own shopping? I know a fair bit from being around my parents.

the worker drones are trained to try and get around mentioning amway and the pyramid schemeyness of it all

Thats not how my parents do it. Maybe some people do? If people ask they tell them immediately.
quote>FantaC clearly your nic aptly indicates the world you live in. Please go and recruit your drones somewhere else mate.

That name was from a dance music track me & a friend were working on. He was teaching me how to write dance tracks. Stupid me not knowing much about music programmes stuffed it up BIG TIME.. Lol.....Oops...

I think the main problem with Amway is that it just doesn't fit in with the Australian culture. Sure it might work fine in the US where everyone is hoopla hi5! and "Tell a friend to receive your 2.5% discount" etc. But over here in Oz, consumers don't really give as much of a s***.

And we are far more suspicious and expect someone urging us to prefer a particular product has an ulterior motive.

So when someone says "Buy this product because I use it, oh and by the way do you want to sell some of it to your friends as well?" Aussie's start sniffing bulls***.

Let the merits of a product sell themselves instead of all the Branched-Davidian crazy cult stuff.

I think the main problem with Amway is that it just doesn't fit in with the Australian culture. Sure it might work fine in the US where everyone is hoopla hi5! and "Tell a friend to receive your 2.5% discount" etc. But over here in Oz, consumers don't really give as much of a s***.

You know you have a very valid point in saying that. Majority of the population is "she'll be right mate"
Whereas Americans are very boistrous.... You can hear them from central park to 5th ave....lol

An example is Albert Einstein believing he could put bubbles in beer & everyone thought he was off the planet.

what the f***?

Yes it's true, while he wasn't playing Rock N Roll, Einstein was putting bubbles into tasmanian beer.

culture taggs

ok someone just explained that to me heh

amway... LOL

amway... LOL

Yeah you either love it; hate it....or like me. An in betweener, can see both arguements on some things.

Guess its like the whole Macca's Vs Hungry Jack's???? Love it, hate it or not that bothered by the whole thing. Eat the one you dont like if your hungry cause thats the only take away you could get but not that pleased you ate it. Or.... Oh Yum that was sooooooo *&%$#! good!!!!! But Im so full I cant move & your forcing yourself to eat the last bite.... Lol

Or... I forgot....

I am not eating that $*1+ & would rather fight the hunger pains.

running their regional IT infrastructure for AU/NZ/ZA.

crazy saffas

Guess its like the whole Macca's Vs Hungry Jack's?

like, s*** Vs s***?

My dad's best mate from high school and his wife have been selling amway for as long as I remember. We always buy our washing powder and toothpaste from them. They seem to be doing really well out of it. As far as I know they don't work otherwise

like, s*** Vs s***?

Lol. Some would say that!!!!
I may have not used the best analogy or idea to explain what I am trying to say; let me think of something else I can use to explain what I mean.

My dad's best mate from high school and his wife have been selling amway for as long as I remember. We always buy our washing powder and toothpaste from them. They seem to be doing really well out of it. As far as I know they don't work otherwise

Thats fantastic. If thats all they do they must have enough passive income coming in from it to not work.? I know many people in that position. I enjoy time away from people too much to do network marketing.
Dont know if your friends have offered this to your parents, however you can sign as shoppers, so it means you wont be building a business like them but you will get products & services at the discounted price. You would save on the washing powder & toothpaste. Like my brother signed through mum & dad so he can get his OPTUS phone plan on a special deal. Plus then it can work out as business expense & also a tax deduction.
Im in another contract atm so I will eventually get the same when mine is up.

i rate this thread creepy and hilarious


Im guessing you get paid for this right? Do just crawl google for keywords then paste a template?

ahaha I wonder how many scamsters we can attract with qgl's SEO

mum did this in her part time when I was a kid, up until I was ~21.

I joined Amway @20 just for the experience of book-keeping, marketing experience, money management skills, and more importantly - the opportunity to get up and do some public speaking.

I got kicked out because I was caught copying Amway tapes to mp3 and offering to them them to new members for free (these guys told me they couldn't afford to buy them and like a n00b I took pity and believed them : )


Mum had ~300 tapes. I wish I had've recorded them all and upped them all to a torrent site.. there was some comedy gold in there - really. it was biz-based stuff, but you'd have to be an idiot not to see teh funny

last edited by koopz at 02:09:24 13/Jan/08

Dude. Just don't buy the stuff. Speak with your MONIES!

Hey sorry dude I dont know what the affiliate link is for. Im not that smart when it comes to the net & computers. I usually get everyone else to do it for me. Apologies.

yeah but you have no problems using html to quote.

An example is Albert Einstein believing he could put bubbles in beer & everyone thought he was off the planet.

hahahahahahhaha quote of the decade.

p.s.

http://photo.gangus.com/d/26788-2/ackbar.jpg

yeah but you have no problems using html to quote.

Do you know how long it took me to figure out the quote button?
Like way too long.
Firstly I dont understand what affiliate means? If it does not sound important to me I wont bother investigating it. Never heard the word affiliate until this website.
This is the second forum I have ever used. This one sounded interesting as it had games & stuff.
You can laugh at me all you want if you think this is hilarious; I am not phased if people think I am retarded because I dont know what to do with the affiliate thing. Never had to do one, probably never will.

I don't know what an affiliate link is either.. and I've been using the net longer than anyone.. ever!

;)

Affiliate is where you sign up to something like Amazon.com and promote their products by giving out the hyperlink to their site. Say they are selling the 'Orange Box' on Amazon, and you come here and you link to the Orange Box product page on Amazon, but as part of your link you have your username or referer ID in the link, so if Amazon makes a sale on that referral you will get a small commission - once you build up 30 bucks or so they send a cheque. I have done this before, when I had a website about TV shows I put links to the books and DVDs, and a few people clicked through and bought some. I was pretty passive about it and it only offset the cost of running the site, but if you put your heart into it I guess you could make a bit of coin.

Amazon might have rules about linking on forums (seems it would give them a bad name) but there are probably a lot of sites with affiliate programs that encourage spamming. My bet would be pharaceutical companies.

I was even an affiliate for a web-based email service. The more website owners I encouraged to submit their domain for the free email service, the more money I got. I did well on this one because I wrote a module for a popular CMS/forum type thing that made it really easy to integrate into your site, and of course the link to the service was an affiliate link :P

last edited by Idol at 16:33:23 13/Jan/08

Sorry Idol, I forgot the tags...

ps - Mailing list was better...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Sarcasm tags, doh!

How is it sarcasm? It's more like a lie!

Never mind.. the joke is over, you spoiled it. I'm blaming you...

I don't know what an affiliate link is either.. and I've been using the net longer than anyone.. ever!

YAY someone else who did not know.

Idol; I really appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me. At least I have some idea what's an affiliate but I must say it still sounds far too complicated for someone like me. Lol.

O

M

G

!!

Well, fantaC, you don't understand because you don't have THE PASSION OR THE DESIRE TO UNDERSTAND. U NEED TAKE A RISK.

hahaha Mantra!

Never heard the word affiliate until this website.

It's not like it's a common English word or anything...

Google define:affiliate

I have been using amway products for going on 3 years now and i recon they are the best products i can find. I mainly use the energy drinks, vitamins and protein shakes. Hell if red bull gave me a discount and a rebate i would drink that to but untill they do i will keep to the XS thanks.

I registered a while back and in the last month i made 300 bucks plus the discounts, now you might think that is crap i don't see woolies or coles paying you for buying from them. People need to stop looking at amway and all of the network marketing busineses (and yes they are viable busineses) as scams or pyrymid schemes. The definition of a pyrymid scheme is the person under you can't make more than you.

If you did a little reserch to then you would realise that Amway has been investigated by the ATO and fair trading comission and wsa given the ok as anyone can make more than the next guy no matter where or when they get in.

I am not trying to get anyone involved but people need to start accepting that this thing is going to be sticking around. They also need to look at these busineses in their simplest form, you buy products and services anyway so why not get discounts and money back. regardless if you see it as a business it is a good idea, and i know it isn't for everyone but if you see it simply as a good idea then everyone would stop being do ignorant when people decide to make a living out of it.

And i will tell you there are plenty of people who live just of there amway income I have heaps of people in my phone who no longer work because this has replaced there income.

Oh and as fantac said if you lose friends becuse you are trying to make money then they weren't worth having as friends

amway promoter - watch out ^^

amway promoters raped my father, and killed my mother.

haha fubar

wow some random people on a forum laughed at me better stop doing something to better my future. Hell when i retire because of this i will make a thread and invite you all to my retirement party.

"I RETIRED SELLING AMWAY. YOU CAN TOO. JOIN OUR FAMILY!"

I am not trying to get anyone involved but people need to start accepting that this thing is going to be sticking around.

HAY GUYS I'VE GOT SOME FREE COCAINE JUST LYING AROUND THE PLACE... WOULD YOU LIKE TO TRY SOME???? NO MONEY DOWN.. TODAY ONLY..

Oh and as fantac said if you lose friends becuse you are trying to make money then they weren't worth having as friends

This is bad. I don't ask my friends for money or to help me buy new cars/etc, so why, just because you're involved in some weird pyramid scheme should you be allowed to?

I thought normally you help out your friends with what your job is, like fix stuff for cheap/free, watch their house/kids etc, not ask your friends to help you with your business as customers and potential """"""""""staff"""""""""" (needs more inverted commas imo)

I didn't laugh at you fubar, I laughed at what you said

This is bad. I don't ask my friends for money or to help me buy new cars/etc, so why, just because you're involved in some weird pyramid scheme should you be allowed to?

how am i asking them for money?

how is it any different to someone owning say a traditional business for example a corner store. if you owned a shop you would say hey come and buy stuff from me i will give you a discount. so how is this any different i say use my products and i will give you a discount.From what you are saying anyone that owns a business and recomends it to a friend is just using them.

I thought normally you help out your friends with what your job is, like fix stuff for cheap/free, watch their house/kids etc, not ask your friends to help you with your business as customers and potential """"""""""staff"""""""""" (needs more inverted commas imo)

If i sell things insn't that my job per-say?
How is showing a friend a way to saving on stuff they are already going to buy not helping them out. hell if one of my mates showes me a way to save on something i am buying then i am all for it, who cares if they get a comision for recomending you to it. It isn't like you are charging THEM comission it is the MANUFACTURES that pay you that.

last edited by Fubar at 20:26:05 14/Jan/08

People don't like being preached at. To sell Amway products, you have to do a lot of preaching.

If you're comfortable in knowing that you're annoying more people that you're benefiting while you earn your living, then go for it. Just don't expect the rest of us not to laugh when you try and justify it.

ok so can we move onto tupperware now?

hell if i have to "annoy" a heap of people to help a few get more out of life then so be it. some people have a little more ambition.

Many people are successful and independently wealthy without leveraging their social networks for personal gain.

There's a wide gap between the corner store guy and what Amway does; its nowhere near comparable. Making a living direct marketing to friends & family is unsavoury at best.

You guys are obviously sold on the idea of passive income. Maybe you'll even pull that off, but you'd be better off pouring your energy into a traditional business, built around a profession you believe in rather than a slick promise of easy money.

I just don't think I'd want Amway to be the greatest success story of my life - it seems like a really hollow, tainted victory somehow.

I have MS. If there's anyone with a reason to chase easy & quick money its probably me. Even in my shoes it feels like a cop out; surely you guys can do better.

yeah i have a mate thats into this s***, fubar pretty much gave you all a carbon copy of what my mate says to me every 6 months or so when he has another crack at trying to get me into it (no not bed lols)

There's a wide gap between the corner store guy and what Amway does; its nowhere near comparable. Making a living direct marketing to friends & family is unsavoury at best.

can you explain how?
To me what your saying is that anyone that sells anything to there family is just using them. i don't see how. If i have a product or service why wouldn't i offer it to my family and friends. there is a difference to offering products and services and pushing them onto people, if someone doesn't want to use the products i don't really care.

Why not aim to have a passive income i know that alot of people don't mind working for the rest of their lives but personally i don't want to be told when i can sleep in or have a break. is that really living personally i don't think so.

You guys are obviously sold on the idea of passive income. Maybe you'll even pull that off, but you'd be better off pouring your energy into a traditional business, built around a profession you believe in rather than a slick promise of easy money.

It really isn't easy money you have to work, and alot of people don't like this type of business because they don't see the results up front. I don't believe traditional business is the way to go, the way consumers recieve products and services is changing to a more direct approch. My parents owned their own business for 13 yrs and they go no where they actually went backwards ended up bankrupt. Now you tell me do you want to put 13 years of hard work into a business to have it go down the drain overnight and have nothing to show for it.

while alot of people don't see amway as something they will ever want to do more and more people are looking at this business and others like it because it is a way for the average person to get into business for them selves without the capital that is needed for traditional business.

Get more out of life? 300 a month? Man you are so brainwashed.

seriously how did you make an extra 300 bucks this last month by changing nothing but where you buy your goods and services?? you didn't that's right.
Yeah i might be brainwashed but it is to think outside what is normal and to look for other opportunities that are out there.

i am not tryin to prospect anyone here, it is obvious that you are all happy doing what you are doing and that is fine. hell i don't care if anyone here thinks i am a tool. i know that if i do the work i will get the money and that is a fact regardless of what your opinions are.

more and more people are looking at this business and others like it

Thats good, because a large pyramid needs a large base.

Yeah i might be brainwashed but it is to think outside what is normal and to look for other opportunities that are out there.

I admire your courage fubar! My parents are doing exactly the same as you to get out of the normal rat race & to help me also.

I can see the benefits of the business idea; however I do understand why some people cringe at the idea of amway. People know it for "selling soap" from back in the days. If only the population stopped walking around with blindfolds on & took it off & saw that the company has changed & they can save a fair chunk of money, then they might do themselves some benefits.
I think for most its a "macho" issue here. Cant be seen using amway stuff. People might laugh at me. Thats whats going on in their heads.
Im still a bit macho about the whole thing even though I know its a good idea. But my parents are doing it so I know their estate will be rolled over to me anyway. If I do it too I will be super well off or if I just leave it to my parents still well off. Either way I benefit. CaChing. $$$$$$. I know its a bit selfish but a fact.

I once heard someone say we all need our brains washed once in a while to get rid of all the $h!t that has been stained in there since a child.

Fubar, got any scrub buds? I think most people will need em to scrub their brains, not just wash them.......ROFL....

I think for most its a "macho" issue here. Cant be seen using amway stuff. People might laugh at me. Thats whats going on in their heads.

Huh? People talk about pyramid scams and all that associated crap and you think the problem is that people dont like their cleaning products? Perhaps you should stop drinking the stuff.

fantaC = fubar gimmick account?

The corner shop guy is offering his wares to the general public. Sure he might mention in passing to his friends to drop by if they need XYZ but that's not his primary revenue stream.

As an Amway distributor your perspective is entirely different. Your business model is more like telemarketing than anything else.

It may seem subtle to you but there's a massive difference for most people. Direct marketing businesses are held in very low regard. Have a look at the replies in this thread; this is what your friends and family are likely thinking if not saying.

Is it worth it? You don't sound like a no-hoper deads***. You surely had other aspirations before Amway. You guys say its hard work - then why do it?

last edited by Hogfather at 08:16:33 15/Jan/08

I've read most of what fantac and fubar said, I don't see the magical idea I need to make me understand what the hell they are doing and why it's so great. Frankly it was so great for people they would be talking about it on the Today show, and Oprah would be doing 2 hour specials on it, and it would come up on digg.com Seriously.. they talk about everything else that saves you money etc...

This really doesn't sound better than dedicating your time to developing your own skills or business etc...

seriously how did you make an extra 300 bucks this last month by changing nothing but where you buy your goods and services?? you didn't that's right.

This is important. You didn't make money by doing this, you traded your consumer choice for cash. It may or may not have been a good deal, but it wasn't money for nothing!

I've read most of what fantac and fubar said, I don't see the magical idea I need to make me understand what the hell they are doing and why it's so great.

Umm well if you read ALL of what I have written, not just most, you would understand as I have repeated several times Im not sure that I will do it or not due to the fact I can see the positive & the negative. I can see both points of view. DO I NEED TO MAKE MYSELF ANYMORE CLEARER!!!! My parents do it so that is why I know so much about it, plus I have been to a few business meetings just so I can understand what they are doing.

Some people do have an issue using amway products so they dont get in because of that; I have heard those exact words come out of somones mouth, some people cant face the fear of talking to people, some just dont like the word amway, some people are like me & are not a people person & frankly I intimidate alot of people. Some dont like reading or listening to the CD's, some people cant see themselves at business meetings, some dont like business wear, & so the list goes on and on and on and on. Excuses; I have some too. Some people are just damn lazy & cbf & some really dont get it at all, they dont understand it.

Thats why I understand can why some are totally against it & some people see the benefits. I have seen the benefits, I know it works, but as I will say just one more time incase some people did not read the start, I am not a peoples person & I intimidate people & Im too stubborn to admit my parents are onto something good., plus why should I do the hard work if they are going to do it for me....blah blah blah....

I could totally understand what Fubar was going on about because I have seen the same results he has achieved in one month on a much higher level.
To some it may only seem like a small amount but...*( if any of you understand how much money is in your account after 30 days if you doubled it each day for that period of time, by starting with only 1c)* then you might understand why he is doing it. Does anyone understand compounding or duplication?
There are alot of other reasons to do it as well which I could be here forever stating them all but each individual has theirs & sees different things.

Why dont you go to a business meeting & check it out for yourself. If you have not seen it presented, then very hard for you to comment about it.
I have seen it several times due to the fact I live in the house where it is presented, so that is why I have the right to comment about it. I know it quite well, I use the products, I have two ears which work very well!!!!!!!!!!

Why dont you go to a business meeting & check it out for yourself. If you have not seen it presented, then very hard for you to comment about it.

I have no need to go to a seminar to "see it presented"; I've had it shoved in my face enough times to know I want nothing to do with it.

Wow I actually found it hard to believe that people were stupid enough to actually try these amway scams out, let alone swear by them like these two retards.

fubar and FantaC, smashcrab would like to have a word with you about satanic child molesting cults that are being covered up my the police, government and media. He has a newsletter he'd like you to subscribe to.

last edited by fpot at 14:10:31 15/Jan/08

i would rather goto a seminar and get a free holiday!!

Wow I actually found it hard to believe that people were stupid enough to actually try these amway scams out, let alone swear by them like these two retards.

Your still not paying attention to what I have said since I started this forum.
The only retard is YOU because obviously you cant read properly.

Cant even believe I am wasting my time on this forum.
Im going to finish my assignment.

I spose your whole life evolves around this forum anyway?

HA.... Goodluck with your career in "forum posting"!!!!!!!!!!!

*Hey Fubar when your loaded make sure you write a book about how you met some forum bum buddies on the net who had nothing better to do than this all day. Oh & dont forget to mention fantaC; who probably never got involved with amway but still admires your courage for doing it.!!!!!*

yeah fubar, make sure you do that

i warned you back in post #26 not to try that s*** on here. just make your millions and keep it to yourself.

people don't handle money jealousy well, so don't tell anyone s***.

also Amway is like lepresy. I mean it is an awful thing to have to admit to people. Like going to the BBQ and saying your a banker etc...

FantaC: courage

What the f***? You know what takes courage? Spending years in uni studying medicine so you can get a job saving peoples lives, or doing an apprenticeship earning s*** money for a few years so you can rake it in building peoples houses or if you have a family working a hard full-time job to make ends meet.

You know what doesn't take courage? Flogging off a bunch of crap through your friends and family through a method of annoying the f*** through them till they cave in and buy it. I know you are going to claim you aren't annoying anyone but sorry bulls***. And what the f*** was that first post of yours FantaC? I've never read such drivel. It is obvious to me that what you typed (I'd say it was copy pasted from some site if it wasn't for all the spelling and grammatical errors it contained) was the sort of thing to appeal to morons. The type who read that and go 'yeah this all sounds so easy, this is the easy fix I can make money easy'. But oh no FantaC, you aren't one of them, you are one of the 'smart' ones, the amway posterboy who proves that pyramid schemes work MAKE MONEY FAST!!.

You're an imbecile, f*** off.

fpot and hogfather speak truth.

I think that alot of you have had bad experiences with amway distributors in the past, and that is regretable as they have to stick to a code of conduct but because of the type of business is not easily enforceable.

Personally i don't push my products onto anyone, if they say no then that is it. Hell i could care less if someone buys my stuff i am not out there to sell the stuff i am out there looking for a few people who are willing to be open minded and improve their situataion.

This is important. You didn't make money by doing this, you traded your consumer choice for cash. It may or may not have been a good deal, but it wasn't money for nothing!

hogfather. that may be so but again do i see you saving/making (which everway you look at it) that getting your goods and services from where you are currently getting them. and again i say no your not, so if you want to keep paying full price for your stuff go ahead i am not going to tell you that it is wrong. To each his own.

hypothetically speaking fubar, how would you be able to improve my situation through amway products?

hypothetically speaking if you were to just use the products and save $300 a month on stuff you already buy do you recon that pay off a little debt or use for a night out. i know i can find a use for $300 in a heart beat.

But it all depends on your situation, if you wanted more you would then show some people how to save $300 and you get a royalty on that volume.

What the f***? You know what takes courage? Spending years in uni studying medicine so you can get a job saving peoples lives, or doing an apprenticeship earning s*** money for a few years so you can rake it in building peoples houses or if you have a family working a hard full-time job to make ends meet

fpot do you actually read what you type. The reason that i am doing what i am doing and why so many other people are doing it is because they just don't want to have a job and make ends meet. So what if you have a job that saves lives when your own life is s*** and you have no time to be with the people you love.

I have nothing agains people who do that sort of thing but personally my misus deserves more than having to go to work in the morning and when i eventually have kids they deserve more than seeing there parents when they are home from work. I want to be able to go the the aid of a family member or friend at the drop of a hat if i need to and not have to get permision to have some time off. That isn't living, being told what to do and when. hell i am not critisizing anyone who chooses that path but i don't want that for my life. I am sure you don't want to get to the end of your life and go i wish i did this and this....

You don't need Amway to achieve those things fubar. What a shame that you seem to think you do.

Your posts reek of the jargon and language of someone who has been evangelised, do you know that? You've been fed a load of horses*** about this stuff mate and started believing it :(

I'm not gonna bash my head against the wall here anymore; its impossible to convince someone against something that they believe in. And dude, you totally believe in Amway :(

how exactly are you going to save me $300/month?

what products are you talking about that I already buy?

what price do you sell them for as opposed to average retail price?

hogfather while you may think it doesn't work i know it does as i deal with people everyday that have made it work and are helping people like myself do the same.

And so what if i believe in amway. It gives average people a chance to be succesful with out the need for 100's of thousands of dollars capital invest ment.

Do i go and put you down because you beleive in god for example so what every person has a right to believe what they want, that is what makes the free enterprize system so great.

i don't need to convince anyone here and that is not my aim. what i hope is however is that some people will open their minds and not be so arrogant when it comes to ways of making peoples dreams come true.

I'm with Hogfather on this one, a lot of preachy sounding gibberish, nothing really specific about the work and the results. I see a lot of faith, and it disturbs me.

why would i bother trying to explain the work or results as you all know it doesn't work already.

I'm with Hogfather on this one, a lot of preachy sounding gibberish, nothing really specific about the work and the results. I see a lot of faith, and it disturbs me.

That is why people don't see this business as a real business because when you are getting started you don't see results right away, you have to put alot of faith in the fact that it will work.

it is like a dog chasing a chicken people see that and don't think anything of it but see a dog running around like an idiot chasing nothing then you think the dog is crazy. If people are in this business then they are like the crazy dog. chasing after something and everyone just see them doing the work for no result.

the thing is if you follow the business plan and do the things sugestted in this business then you will get results it is just a matter of faith and effort.

TAGGS

how exactly are you going to save me $300/month?

by basicly cutting the actuall cost of the things you buy by getting them at wholesale and then you get a rebate on the volume you put through and it all works on a scale. depending on how much volume you put throught the website the bigger a percentage of the volume you get.

what products are you talking about that I already buy?

everything basicly the only thing they don't sell is perishable things.
so for example energy drinks, soap, pasta etc some brands are the same and some are different.

what price do you sell them for as opposed to average retail price?

on average you get about 30% off the products, some the discount is not that
much it all depends on the type of things. if you are to sell them you get the difference between wholesale and retail

Couldn't you just... buy wholesale...elsewhere...

by basicly cutting the actuall cost of the things you buy by getting them at wholesale and then you get a rebate on the volume you put through and it all works on a scale. depending on how much volume you put throught the website the bigger a percentage of the volume you get.

Think global act local, buy low sell high, you need a paridigm shift, take it to he next level, manage your expectations, raise the bar, work smarter not harder, hit the ground running, its all clear to me now.

on average you get about 30% off the products,

So you save 30%, which equals ~$300 a month, meaning you spend about $700 on amway crap a month (compared to $1000 on crap you would have bought from a store)?

it is like a dog chasing a chicken

I think its more like a dog chasing another dog and saying "Get my dinner bitch"

last edited by Bah at 23:48:39 15/Jan/08

I'm not gonna join the argument at all... I do have a question however..

I see most of the negative argument about network marketing is the roping friends/family into it bit. I couldn't agree more with this argument. My question on the other hand, is that if there was a way to build a business like this (am not saying amway or any other in particular, just the concept in general) without once having to talk to a friend/family member, but ONLY to people who specifically request to be in it, then is it something worth considering? I'd be interested in hearing arguments for/against..

Can you set up a shop with amway products in it?

morax you COULD do that but the idea behind this type of business is volume so you could seek out people who wanted to but that would take a long time.

no you can't it defeats the whole purpose of the amway idea which is to give people and even chance not give those with the finance or ability to set up a retail shop and sell that way.

So you save 30%, which equals ~$300 a month, meaning you spend about $700 on amway crap a month (compared to $1000 on crap you would have bought from a store)?

thats basicly it.

But the thing that makes amway NOT a pyramid scheme is that every person buys the products at the same price and every one that does volume gets the discount and rebate and where as a pyrymid scheme noone under you can make more than you hence a pyrymid cause the top person always makes more than you. It makes it a level playing field and those that put the effort in get paid and those that don't don't

It's still a scam though, just a different type.

it's less of a scam than lending money

It may appear a scam but it is one of the fairest rewards programs in the world. You can argure that fact till your blue in the face but it is a fact.

morax you COULD do that but the idea behind this type of business is volume so you could seek out people who wanted to but that would take a long time.

But by each person buying for themselves, each person is creating their own volume correct?

thats basicly it

Ok i'll be less subtle, how much and what type of crap do you have to buy to make amway worth it, give specific examples not just bulls*** "Oh look man im telling you you can save megabuxx, i hav 50 dogs and buy 300kg of pal a month and save enough to put my dogs through obedience school!!!!"

Pyramid

The thing that makes it a pyramid scam is the signing up of more members and selling of business promotonal s***, i.e. the seminars and cds and crap.

morax yeah that is right each person gets their own volume plus the people who he/she registers.but once the volume reaches a certain level you get a 4% royalty of that business that doesn't come from them amway pays it to you.

bah it all depends on what you classify as worth it. to some people saving a few bucks and geting there shopping deliver to their door is worth it. to others it may be 40k a year or 1mil a year.

if you spend 340 bucks you will get 3% back every month + what you save which is 30% so you work it out. and as you put more volume through the website you get a bigger percentage.

it doesn't matter how little you get back the point is if you walk into woolies and go i will spend this much and all i want is a 30% discound and a percentage back every month. i doubt very much they will say no worries.

it isn't a pyramid becasue pyramids a illegal and amway would have been shut down long ago if it was. An illegal pyramid scheme doesn't stick around and make over 6 billion dollars a year.

Oh just shut the f*** up already.

I knew i'd get a bulls*** non-answer, typical amway answer.

what sort of answer do you want. you can't ask a vague question and expect and exact answer.

how about this. if you help 9 people generate an income of 40-50k per year you will have an income around the 1.3 million dollars a year.

give specific examples

I guess you read that as "Give more vague examples that answer nothing"

how about this. if you help 9 people generate an income of 40-50k per year you will have an income around the 1.3 million dollars a year.

Thats all i have to do? Get 9 people to sell what... half a million dollars worth of scamway each? (im assuming 10% commission)

last edited by Bah at 01:16:25 16/Jan/08

well you tell me how much is worth it to you and i can give you a specific answer

Youre the one selling it, shouldnt you know what you sell and how much it compares to store stuff, id expect an experienced amway person to have alist of a typical basket of groceries and how they can save by using amway

last edited by Bah at 01:21:53 16/Jan/08

ok well each of those 9 people would have to have a business with about 75 people all spending around 340 dollars per month. which totals about 25/30k dollars a month of turn over. of which each of those people will get 21% of that total turn over.

and you will get 4% of that 30k per month.
there are other bonuses as well. i can't tell you because i am not making that kind of money.

if you were to buy a multi vitamin, 1 ctn of energy drink and 1 ctn of protein shakes + a few odds and ends like soap, washing powder you would save about 90 bucks and you would get around 10 bucks back. that would equall about the 340 bucks. you save because to buy these things else where you would be paying retail. what happens is the companies that we buy off pay amway a percentage of the sales and that gets distributed back to the amway distributors depending on their volume

it is not always about price but more about cost when you look at saving money with these products. i ahve a 3kg box of washing powder that i have had for nearly 6 months and it is just starting to get empty. and it isn't because i don't wash my clothes well the missus does but the amount per use is smaller than your normal stuff. that is the same with alot of amway products you get more uses because they are concentrated.

i'm not trying to sell anyone any products but that is the way it works.

fubar i never said amway haha, i said the concept of it.. i've seen the amway comp plan many times and tbh there's very little money in it (personal opinion of course)

So basically weight lifters who go to all night lans would benefit from amway? I think you have just converted acetame at least.

ok well each of those 9 people would have to have a business with about 75 people

See how the numbers start to balloon out, you know theres a limit to how many people can actually be recruited, i think its about 6 billion.. and if you understand about compounding (and i assume you do because one of the amway guys mentioned it earlier, and im sure they chuck it in their sales spiels) the limits of amway profitability get reached pretty quick.

last edited by Bah at 01:50:13 16/Jan/08

Oh just shut the f*** up already.

Seriously, listen to the quote.

Edit: Quiet old man, I'm talking to the amway retards.

last edited by Cl1nt at 01:56:21 16/Jan/08

Did you mak a wav of it? Don't know if my speakers could play your high pitched teenage voice.

smell this!

ck1 right?

but its not.

See how the numbers start to balloon out, you know theres a limit to how many people can actually be recruited

We have a winnar!

Face it... it's essentially a pyramid scheme with products, late joiners are getting screwed down the line.

The worst aspect is the people, the whole "scam" feeling to it... everytime fubar or fantac speak it sounds like I'm being talked into a cult.

man, i bet you amway guys hate aldi!

whats funny is they all have the same sales spiel, passive income blah blah blah

smell this!

ck1 right?

but its not.

You've used that joke on here before like... 6 years ago :P

And fubar the fact that you claim amway isn't a pyramid scheme proves you'll believe anything they tell you.

i'm not amway and i hate aldi. i feel creepy whenever i go in there.

im not infi and i love aldi;

i love aldi so much i want to marry it

i touch myself at nite and think of aldi

How come there are two Fubars accounts? Or has is one account his amway drone posting!?@#

the thing is if you follow the business plan and do the things sugestted in this business then you will get results it is just a matter of faith and effort.

How unlike the rest of life

do you think faith and effort really are part of any success? think of the dude in Office Space - he gets smacked up by truck after trying to commit suicide, and then gets a massive payout.

all big fortunes are the results of unforeseeable good luck.

ok well each of those 9 people would have to have a business with about 75 people all spending around 340 dollars per month. which totals about 25/30k dollars a month of turn over. of which each of those people will get 21% of that total turn over.

Assuming that everybody in Australia joined Amway, and in perfect 1:9:75 formations, you could only have 31,000 networks in Australia (i.e. only 31,000 millionaires). Which is 0.15% of the population.

I don't have the figures, but I think entrepreneur endeavours have a higher chance of successfully becoming a millionaire than you do with Amway.

##EDIT: I'd also like to point out, that if you did end up with a perfect 1:9:75 formation, where everybody is purchasing/selling $340 dollars a month, you've actually got a small business pushing through $33,488,980 p/a. I'd question the sanity of anybody who thinks that there's any small business owners who have a 33.5 million dollar a year operation who sit around at home f***ing their kids all day (or whatever fubar wanted to do with them. To generate that kind of operation is a massive commitment of time and effort.

last edited by typo at 12:48:09 16/Jan/08

ah but then you move overseas... to nigeria and the likes

do you think faith and effort really are part of any success? think of the dude in Office Space - he gets smacked up by truck after trying to commit suicide, and then gets a massive payout.

all big fortunes are the results of unforeseeable good luck.

haha funny, funny stuff

ah but then you move overseas... to nigeria and the likes

I suppose the point I was making is that these rhombus schemes have a logically finite limit of millionaires it can create. Even if we use a sample space of the population of the entire earth, and have perfect 1:9:75 ratio, and assume that every country in the world can sell/purchase $340au a month, you still end up with 0.15% of the population who can earn 1.3 million dollars (au) a year.

For the record, 0.15% of 6,602,274,812 people in the world is 9,638,357 people who can become millionaires.

i suppose even at the bottom of the pyramid you are still enjoying low low prices on quality no name brand products, and are part of a "family" where you can have BBQs and discuss upcoming products and the like. actually, it sounds kinda attractive (if you're a sociopath).

fyi, our neighbours (amway drones) are hated in the street, yet get lots of visitors weekly

last edited by Spook at 13:20:17 16/Jan/08

so, for all those who dub network marketing as "pyramid scheme", please define what your definition of a pyramid scheme is?

talking about pyramids schemes, do you think most Scientologists would buy Amway just to benefit financially from their already high insanity levels?

so, for all those who dub network marketing as "pyramid scheme", please define what your definition of a pyramid scheme is?

Straight from the horses mouth.

if you wanted more you would then show some people how to save
$300 and you get a royalty on that volume.

Do i go and put you down because you beleive in god for example so what every person has a right to believe what they want, that is what makes the free enterprize system so great.

Every one hates a pushy christian.


anyway. lets all go to church, and pay a preist %10 of my weekly income in "collection" (which is what the pasters recommend) so they can pay %10 of their weekly income to a higher level preist in return for pointers and advise on stories and readings.

Atleast with religion people are paying for redemption, something a little less hollow than at amway they are trying to buy money.

Some price comparisons would be great. because most supermarkets only proffit at about %6 GP per item to remain competitive. you can by 1kg of detergent for under $10 at a supermarket, how much can you buy 1kg from amway?

Some price comparisons would be great.

dont bore us with your hands on IGA experiences godboy.

People think to much on price not on cost.

a kilo works out to about 16 bucks. How long does your kilo last is a more important question. mine will last me 2 months so work that out at 1 wash per day equalls 25c per wash, what does yours cost?

Yeah because you cant buy concentrated laundry powder at a supermarket.

Some price comparisons would be great.

about 20c per wash, because it only costs $10 a kilo.

dont bore us with your hands on IGA experiences godboy.

hrm, i have seen about 400 stores GP margins over different depeartments for the last 6 months. With access to about 2000.

and shutup c***, jesus is going to make me rich as long as i give money to the church. so sucks to be you slaving away at work making money.

A supermarket can sell items and only make a small GP because of volume. supermarkets can put out lot of the items quickly so they can make less of a profit on each item.

your saying that Amway is able to match that, or better that? how? if they could they would have sold their product to supermarkets.



Anyway, YES you can make money out of amway, just like you can make money out of bingo, or the pokies, or horse racing. Someone is always able to make some money out of such activities. But the majority of poeple actually pay thoes "special few" with their own money.

last edited by myWhiteWolf at 19:56:21 16/Jan/08

Straight from the horses mouth.

If you're talking about the shape, then look at ANY regular corporate structure

CEO (1 of)
Executives (very few)
high level Managers (a few)
mid level managers (a few more)
regular employees (heaps)

Look familiar? Also, it's VERY rare to find anybody lower in that pyramid earning more money than somebody higher. Damn corporate pyramid schemes!

^

lol, you're joking right?

he is right actually.

where's the joke?

If you're talking about the shape, then look at ANY regular corporate structure

You forgot the board an shareholders? (assuming publicly listed)

it doesn't matter how little you get back the point is if you walk into woolies and go i will spend this much and all i want is a 30% discound and a percentage back every month. i doubt very much they will say no worries.

Damnit, I thought I was out of this thread. Its like a sore tooth I can't help seeing if it still hurts.

You have been chucking this 30% figure around a fair bit. What is the price of Amway products being compared too - regular retail brands or more appropriately generic no name stuff?

Why do I get the feeling that Amway Toothpaste is compared to Colgate instead of You'll Love Coles?

You forgot the board an shareholders? (assuming publicly listed)

And on the flip side, it's entirely possible for someone in the "middle" of the pyramid in one of these "schemes" to make substantially more than anybody higher than them. There's always going to be arguments for and against it, but either way "most" network marketing companies are legal, and it's a widely accepted form of business. If it wasn't, then why does Warren Buffet own a number of them, and Donald Trump endorses them, as do many powerful business men and investors around the world?

I personally believe the main reason why it has such a bad rap, is simply because people have been going about it the wrong way for years. I'm sure everybody knows someone who has hassled them over and over, whether it's a friend or family member. Those people have either been badly trained, not trained at all, or have no system in place. Hassling friends/family is the WORST possible thing I think anybody can do, especiall when it comes to making money.

The second reason I believe it has such a bad image is because of what happened in a certain company (which I won't mention the name of) years ago. High ranking distributors in that company found that it was possible to sell business 'tools' to people and earn more money than what they were earning through the company itself. Tools such as books, tapes, seminars etc etc. Many people at the top ranks were earning a fortune off this side business, and maybe only 10% of their income through the business that they were trying to teach.

Fundamentally however, I still believe the concept has merit. It does truly reward those that put in the effort, as well as being 100% fair and equal for every single individual in it.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not currently affiliated with any networking company, so obviously I'm not out to recruit anybody. I'm merely expressing my views for open discussion :)

High ranking distributors in that company found that it was possible to sell business 'tools' to people and earn more money than what they were earning through the company itself. Tools such as books, tapes, seminars etc etc.

I believe that was the Church of Scientology.

haha, touche

hogfather the 30% or around that amount i keep refering to is the differnce between what and amway distributor and a customer would pay.

Using the toothpaste as a comparison over all it works out about the same at retail and a little bit cheaper at wholesale. I can't compare as i don't have prices of collgate and no name brands. But to do a proper comparison it would have to be done on weight as the amway toothpaste cost $15.25 retail and $12.21 wholesale but it comes in a larger tube than the normal brands so people might look at price and say it is expensive but forget to take into account the size.
but the reason it works out better is because of the percentage you get back every month.

sorry if i didn't understand your question properly it is getting to the end of the week and i am not thinking straight at the moment.

You know what really has started to bug me, is that some kids (not mentioning names here) grow up with parents who are hardcore into this stuff, who probably see no future for said kids but to go into amway and they repeat that garbage in the house, and then the kids grow up with that stuff burned into their heads!

hey fubar i'm not trying to bag amway here, but from a purely business perspective, that toothpaste you're referring to, what's the selling point of it? there's no way in hell i'm paying $12+ for a tube of toothpaste, even if it is a bit larger than a $4 tube from Woolies (it would have to be way larger).

What the f***, that 30% saving was based on s*** you wouldnt buy unless you were an amway guy, thats f***ing retarded.

If it wasn't, then why does Warren Buffet own a number of them, and Donald Trump endorses them, as do many powerful business men and investors around the world?

So the guys at the top of the pyramid endorse them, well i'm shocked.

Bah, I said they OWN the companies, and ENDORSE them. They have nothing to do with your so called pyramid.

I know what you said, and thats what i was responding to.
Of course people who own these companies or shares in them or own companies that make product for them will endorse them.

And the point I'm trying to make is this..

If they were such a scam, would Warren Buffet - one of the world's most respected and successful investors - put his money into them?

it is a huge tube about 2x the size but i also use half the amount i would of normal toothpaste. i know it seems expensive but as i said it is more about cost per use than price. i understand where you are coming from and i felt the same whay but once i tried it and saw how big the thing was and how little i used i saw that it was a good deal.

BAH i agree completly if you if you were to buy products you normally wouldn't then it is stupid that is why these businesses are not for everyone, however if you are going to buy the stuff anyway then wouldn't it seem logical to save a bit of money. a better example would be energy drinks, i am going to drink them anyway so why not change brands for a bit of a discount and get the rebate at the end of the month.

also there is a reason for people like Warren Buffet and Donald Trump are buying these network marketing/direct sales which ever you want to call it. Think about how much a company spends on advertising, warehousing and distribution and staffing cost among other things. In a network marketing business you have none of that, that is why so many companies are trying to get there products sold using this method as it is a viable business and can reduce cost dramaticly.

The funny thing is every person on the planet is involved in network marketing wether you like it or not. For example you see a great movie, what do you do? you tell your mates and then they go and see it. The only difference between that and an actuall network business is that you get paid for sending them there. If you look at how things are sold in any business you will see that a large portion of that is direct marketing or word of mouth

fubar, cost saving alone isn't a big selling point. Is there anything else you can sell me on with it? I know of companies that sell non-toxic stuff at a cheaper price, you use very little, and it's a MUCH healthier product than supermarket stuff. Other companies sell organic stuff which also is cheaper, healthier and cost effective. Many more also do similar thing with a somewhat unique selling point about them.

EDIT: I might also add, with reward systems that return MUCH higher percentages and bonuses than a certain company named in threat title

last edited by Morax at 01:12:50 17/Jan/08

If they were such a scam, would Warren Buffet - one of the world's most respected and successful investors - put his money into them?

If it was legal and profitable, yes.

BAH i agree completly if you if you were to buy products you normally wouldn't then it is stupid

Sorry you missed my point, you were saying you get a 30% discount on amway products rather than comparing them to the supermarket equivalent.

If it was legal and profitable, yes.

Exactly. I don't know why people go around saying they're illegal constantly.

Why the f*** can't you give us a cost/size comparison of 2 similar products.


Are you saying there is no toothpaste out there like amway toothpaste?

Regular supermarket stuff - maybe $3 - $8 for a (roughly) 150 - 170g tube

Amway Glister - $12+ for a 200g tube

Melaleuca (non-toxic ingredients) - $6.95 for a 108g tube

MiEssense (100% certified organic) - $5.70 for a 150g tube

last edited by Morax at 02:05:50 17/Jan/08

You know what really has started to bug me, is that some kids (not mentioning names here) grow up with parents who are hardcore into this stuff, who probably see no future for said kids but to go into amway and they repeat that garbage in the house, and then the kids grow up with that stuff burned into their heads!

this happens in all things. religion, homophobia, racism, politics. parents have a massive influence on their children's initial points of view. don't limit it to amway.

Sounds pretty gay, as if you're only using half the toothpaste you normally would. Who seriously considers the type of toothpaste they are when they're putting it on the brush?

I find it really sad to think of you washing your clothes and putting in the powder thinking you're so awesome because you're saving 3.333333333c over the ordinary unenlightned qgler

Can one of the Amway drones please address the fact that there's a finite number of people who can ever become rich off of this program? 0.15% isn't a lot of people, even world wide.

advertising, warehousing and distribution and staffing cost

so amway don't advertise? they don't need a warehouse? and don't distribute? oh, and no staff.


what the f*** do they do then?

If you're talking about the shape, then look at ANY regular corporate structure

CEO (1 of)
Executives (very few)
high level Managers (a few)
mid level managers (a few more)
regular employees (heaps)

Look familiar? Also, it's VERY rare to find anybody lower in that pyramid earning more money than somebody higher. Damn corporate pyramid schemes!

there is a massive difference between corporate structure and pyramid schemes - if you can't see that you need help

pyramid scheme: you will never move up, you can only increase the number of people below you, or in your downline.

corporate structure: you can move up the ladder through hard work/aptitude/cock sucking/etc.

is that not blatently f***ing obvious to you?

pyramid scheme: you will never move up, you can only increase the number of people below you, or in your downline.

You most certainly can move up the ranks, and potentially much more than those above you. You just do it in a different way. You do it by increasing volume. I know of certain network companies which even let you work through retail shops to increase that volume.

corporate structure: you can move up the ladder through hard work/aptitude/cock sucking/etc.

Exactly the same can be said about network marketing

last edited by Morax at 14:33:02 17/Jan/08

Exactly. I don't know why people go around saying they're illegal constantly.

No-one in this thread has said they are illegal.

corporate structure: you can move up the ladder through hard work/aptitude/cock sucking/etc.


Exactly the same can be said about network marketing

No it can't.

the actual vitamins are all grown on special farms where they buy all the land around them to ensure no chemicals

hahaha wtf? I'll have to go visit one of these 'vitamin farms'.

You really are priceless.


last edited by fpot at 17:25:22 17/Jan/08

MORAX: There are heaps of selling points, the washing powder is all biodegradable, the energy drinks have 8 callories and is pack with b vitamins and taste awsome with vodka, the actual vitamins are all grown on special farms where they buy all the land around them to ensure no chemicals from surounding farms affect the products, the water filter is the only domestic water filter that uses UV light to kill 99.9999% of bacteria and the carbon block.

Each of the products have their selling points and some people will see them and others won't it is the same as people will drink coke instead of pepsi. all personal choice really. Personally i prefer the products as i think they are really good quality and i place and order and the stuff is at my door 2 days later.

so amway don't advertise? they don't need a warehouse? and don't distribute? oh, and no staff.

no amway doesn't advertise that is done by word of mouth, of course they do warehouse but the reason the average person can make money is that is all covered by the company as well as the distribution and staffing cost and accounting. it isn't a matter of wether it is done it is more who covers the cost. The cost associated in getting products from the Manufacture to the consumer is different in a direct sales system instead of going throught Manufacture - wholesaler - retailer - consumer
it goes
Manufacture - warehouse - Consumer.

and all the costs of that warehouse are coverd by the company. and then the money saved from not going from wholesaler to retailer (which includes things like advertising, insurance and all that stuff) is then given back to the people who set up the networks of people who buy the products.

The one thing that really seperates a network marketing business from a traditional business is that a tradional one is constricted by space and time. say a sandwich shop, you can only have so many staff working in the space and you can only serve a certain amount per day even if you are open 24hrs. While you can make alot of money from traditional business ( i am not saying you can't) the reason a network marketing business has benifits for some people is that you get paid for your work and a little bit of others for a minimal start up cost and as i said all normal cost associated with a traditional business are covered by the coroporation. and as long as that network of consumers continues to use the goods and services then they will continue to get paid.

You know what really has started to bug me, is that some kids (not mentioning names here) grow up with parents who are hardcore into this stuff, who probably see no future for said kids but to go into amway and they repeat that garbage in the house, and then the kids grow up with that stuff burned into their heads!

Not sure if you are refering to fantac of me but my parents are so anti amway it is not funny. Hell my mum told me to get out of the house when i told her.

sorry for the spamming but i have only got a couple of mins before i ahve to get back to work

No-one in this thread has said they are illegal.

By people saying networking companies are pyramid schemes, they are directly saying they're illegal.

No it can't.

Please explain, fpot.


last edited by Morax at 17:33:19 17/Jan/08

Nobody grows vitamins.

No blahnana, they are grown on the same magical vitamin farms where amway is also a sane and socially acceptable business model.

Please explain, fpot.

99.85% of the population pretty much explains it.

99.85% of the population pretty much explains it.

That's not an explanation. Do you even know why you're saying what you're saying? Or are you just following what some other people say like a sheep?

I'll explain myself when fubar explains vitamin farms.

where do you believe vitamins and minerals come from? The vitamins are not farmed all the ingredients are grown on the farms and then processed to make up the vitamins. All of the vitamins and minerals come from the fruit and plants grown on these farms nothing is synthetic.

from the nutriway page

We cultivate, harvest and process our own plants using organic farming methods. To raise a healthy plant, we start with soil naturally enriched with organic materials. Then, as our crops grow, they are cultivated nature's way - free of chemical pesticides, herbicides and synthetic fertilizers. The next step is to harvest as the plants reach prime, keeping a focus on preserving all the valuable vitamins and phytonutrients that nature has grown into them. At NUTRIWAY, we believe in goodness from the ground up

you can check it out for your self

http://www.amway.com.au/a2k/Brands/Stories/nutriway?vgnextfmt=Brands

You do realise that vitamins grown the 'natural' way and vitamins created synthetically are chemically identical? That this is just some stupid sales pitch like all the other crap amway says to lure in suckers right?

And I can't be sure on this one, but I don't really see how pesticides and stuff could effect vitamins once they are extracted from the plant.

last edited by fpot at 20:57:47 17/Jan/08

Exactly the same can be said about network marketing

You have less chance of making real money from Amway than you do from Poker.

well only time will tell.

You have less chance of making real money from Amway than you do from Poker.

I'm not pro-Amway at all, in fact I'm not a fan of that company at all. However the 'chance' of making money is still high with a lot of work and the right system in place. Chances are that income won't last long however, and will be extremely high maintenance.