thoughts on age? how young is too young etc

There's no single rule, but the 'first pancake' rule imo applies until about the age of 23/24.

never

Explain first pancake rule.

Ariel, the little mermaid, got married when she was 16, so I guess you could use that as a perfectly good example on when is a good age to get married.

lol @ ariel comment

i got married at 21, we're pretty much on 3yrs now in November

really its like how long is a piece of string.. each person/couple is different.

some mates i know i wouldn't guess would be ready until they are in their 30's, whereas other couples very early on (like 18-20) has worked out perfectly.

if you are depending on a forum to give you some balls to tie the knot/sign your life away, you are not ready

I'm getting married on saturday. We've been together 10 years next tuesday. I'm 27, she's 26.

We're happy. We wanted to get uni out of the way, get jobs, get a decent income, then we could concentrate on getting married.

Been engaged since last feb. 18 months to plan is good cause you get lots of the planning out of the way early and it doesn't consume your life like it would trying to organise in a small time frame.

I got married three weeks ago. We've been together for 9 years. I'm 23, she's 24 in November.

We're as happy as a pig in s***, and have been for the last 9 years. I don't think there should be any parameters as to when you get married. If you should get married, you'll know. If you're being hassled into proposing, it's probably not a good thing. If you both feel strongly about spending the rest of your lives together, why the f*** not?

Well I have already avoided 2 serious marriage accidents (well they would have been) and I'm 30. At the same time my mate is 30 and has already been married and divorced and is about to marry again.

So I figure the best bet is to settle down with a nice girl and have a go... after my trusts are sorted out.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/dating_pools.png
The full analysis is of course much more complicated, but I can't stay to talk about it because I have a date.

continuing with the xkcd advice:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/commitment.png

my answer...

ask yourself "have you slept with enough women?" if you honestly say yes, than go for it.

rofl @ any

i feel 100% ready and it's everything i want, i've just been very ridiculed for my decisions so i was just curious as to what people feel is acceptable or not. either way, i'm still going to do it. i don't really feel the need to stay in contact with these ppl any longer, even before their judgment

how old are you trixx? boy/girl

first of all, how old are you?

I think mooby is on to something, also pics or ban of the bride-2-be assuming she doesn't flat out reject you - don't worry I'm sure she wont ;)

go for it

marriage is increasingly meaningless in this day and age anyway

nearly 20, female

oh you're a chick

thread over

heaps of 20yo get married since it's basically the preprogrammed genetic mission of every chick to trap a guy into a life misery and monogamy while her ass gradually grows from barina size to f250.

i don't think that's too young at all. just remember people don't know s*** until they get out of their 20's. Those damn insurance companies are smart I tells ya.

edit: haha that was funny without the "know"

last edited by infi at 21:14:46 17/Sep/07

nearly 20, female

in before lock.

Nothing personal but why would you even bother in the first place? What makes you think this is a good option? Are married people any happier then single people, if so why is divorce so high? Marriage seems to be a really good way to f*** a great relationship to me.

I was with a girl for over 3 years, we talked about marriage etc and said "forever" alot.....and we broke up 6 months ago. So go figure, personally I wouldn't marry anyone unless I lived with them for at least a year or two. And then a really long engagement.

top answer mooby .. i'm using that from now on!

We require pics of said girl to see if you're marriage material or not.

just remember people don't s*** until they get out of their 20's

i s*** everyday.

no seriously though what did you mean? and why would anyone care if a shat or not?

Read the thread homo.

Explain first pancake rule.

The first pancake rule basically refers to the fact that when cooking pancakes, the first one is generally a sacrificial pancake that gets discarded. It's just used to ensure that the pan is ready etc, to make sure that the subsequent pancakes are awesome.

why do you want to get married?

LMAO pancake rule is so informative on sooo many levels.
Living with someone for a long period of time before marriage is what I'd do but hey I'm 21 and don't know s*** about anything. Still older than you though.

meh

its easy to condescend to people in love for the first time but then again their marriages seem just as likely to succeed

I was with a girl for over 3 years, we talked about marriage etc and said "forever" alot.....and we broke up 6 months ago. So go figure, personally I wouldn't marry anyone unless I lived with them for at least a year or two. And then a really long engagement.

matty, suprisingly wise

i woudlnt even think of marrying someone until you've spent a good many years living with them

you dont know anyone, until you have lived with them

Live with for 1-2 years before you think about taking the next step.

1) Swallow?
2) Bummy?
3) 3-some?

If she does the above then she's marriage material.

I have been with my fiancé since I was 19. At 19 I knew I was in for the long haul but it wasn't until a few years ago that I seriously considered marriage. It wasn't that I didn't want to be with him forever, but marriage was a HUGE step - even though it wasn't, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn't recommend marriage to someone under 21 and I would definitely question someone getting married under the age of 25-28. Your 20s are when a lot of people do their growing mentally and they change what they want a lot.

That said, I am getting married when I am 25 and we couldn't be happier :) We did it all backwards, but meh :p

matty, suprisingly wise

yeah im getting older and wiser :(







NOT AS OLD AS YOU THOUGH! MWHAHA!

it'll happen

i predict you to be way older than me, real soon

I was engaged once and narrowly dodged that bullet
Happily unmarried at 38

My old boss was married when he was 19. Now he cheats like a madman, constantly. It's quite hilarious if you switch your morals off for a laugh.

sorry domino, that needed an edit. haha

i met a girl the other weekend who is the same age as me, 22

went out with her the next weekend, turns out she's still technically married divorce is finalisted in november got married when she was 19

but thats just 1 story

i'm best man for my mates wedding next year, he's 22

imo i think it's silly but hey i guess each person is different

top answer mooby .. i'm using that from now on!

thanks : )

when i was young i thought i'd get married young, now i'm 24 a few relationships later including a 4yr and about 2yr one i'm not getting married until i'm atleast 30

The first pancake rule basically refers to the fact that when cooking pancakes, the first one is generally a sacrificial pancake that gets discarded. It's just used to ensure that the pan is ready etc, to make sure that the subsequent pancakes are awesome.

man, I thought pancakes were awesome already, now I can see how they're basically just metaphors for real life in so many ways.

I say, don't get married until you know that when it comes to that "death do us part" vow you take, you actually mean it like a vow.

I dunno if anyone else feels the same, but when I think back to what a Grade A clueless newbie I was when I was around that age. I shudder in fear at some of the crazy-ass things I thought and did. I was never in any danger of being married though, but I can imagine how I could have been.

[OT: I've always liked the Meatloaf song, "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights" (youtube, lyrics, wikipedia) because the character in the song Meatloaf is singing about stuck to his word. WORD! ]

my answer...

ask yourself "have you slept with enough women?" if you honestly say yes, than go for it.

True. I think the rule is actually that you have to have slept with as many girls as your age... which isn't really a lot. Let's say you started late at 18, thats only 4 chicks a year until you're 24.

I think working out if your "first love" is the one or not is like deciding whether or not to get a mobile phone. If you have never had a mobile phone, you really can live without it and it's hard to see why they are so popular. However, as soon as you get a mobile phone you can't understand how you could do without it... and then eventually you realise that it's a s*** phone and you need a new one. Except every few months, or couple of years there's a far sexier, slimmer, blonde mobile phone with big tits that you just have to f*** and you kiss the ground that ages ago you made the decision to go mobile.

My mates refer to it as "FFS" or "First f*** Syndrome".

What most people forget these days is that "marriage" originally had absolutely f***ing NOTHING to do with love.
They were designed to forge alliances between families for trade, social standing and peace treaties.

That said, I've also been a Best Man 3 times to date and a Groomsman once.

And PS. Research has shown that you're more likely to get divorced if you live with the person first. The longer you lived with the person the more likely you will get divorced too.

FFS, just blowing the cobwebs out really.

Research has shown that you're more likely to get divorced if you live with the person first. The longer you lived with the person the more likely you will get divorced too.

where is this said research?

Third year Social Psyc subject, Semester 2, 2007, the University of Queensland St Lucia Campus

I would tend to disagree, but thats based on the my opinion. Generally i would have thought living together for 1-2 years + would help you determine whether you're compatible or not. I mean if you get married, then move in together and find out shes the messiest bitch ever who cant cook and has a secret voodoo doll collection. You then might realise that it's not for ever! and step it back to something a little more layed back.. or flee the country..

Why are people assuming this is the first relationship and/or person she has slept with?

I'd say meh to any average or 'standardized' ages for getting married.
Are you actually engaged yet?
Can always be engaged for awhile as a testament to your faith/commitment/whatever you want to call it to each other before actually signing on the dotted line to changing your name etc.
In that time you can move in together, figure out if she has an ak47 under the bed and rides a camel to work or whatever.

I say get married. You can always get a divorce if it doesn't work out.

Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed.

i'm suprised no-one has said - HALF EDDIE

heaps of 20yo get married since it's basically the preprogrammed genetic mission of every chick to trap a guy into a life misery and monogamy while her ass gradually grows from barina size to f250.

hahahahahaha made me laugh :)

^ heh
Least you can window shop for your barina an check out her mum's panel damage in the "west" ;P

Third year Social Psyc subject, Semester 2, 2007, the University of Queensland St Lucia Campus

So, it was it published or was it just something discussed in your course?

I would be interested in reading their methods and controls because it sounds very dubious to me.

Is anyone married here with a pre-nup?

It's not that hard to believe. It's statistically speaking don't forget, and I could believe that that kinds of people who are happy to live together unwed are the kinds of people who are more happy to get divorced when things go wrong.

There's also the fact that people who end up living together see splitting up as a far more major decision than people who aren't living together... meaning that marriage might tend to just be something they go into half-heartedly instead of completely focussed on it...

It could be both of those reasons and more, it could be neither of those reasons. I'm someone who'd probably want to live with someone before marriage, but I'm certainly nowhere near that point at the moment so have no real input into that discussion. But I can see how it could be possible... certainly the "try before you buy" issue isn't the only one that's out on the table here.

Why are people assuming this is the first relationship and/or person she has slept with?

first 'love' surely - that or she is a precocious 19yo

Research has shown that you're more likely to get divorced if you live with the person first. The longer you lived with the person the more likely you will get divorced too.

I think this is case of an incorrect conclusion being drawn from statistics.

There are 3 types of lies, "Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics."

I offer this explanation for your statistics.
More conservative people are less like to live in sin.
More conservative people are less likely to get divorced.

In other words if you and your prospective partner are wanting and happy to live together "in sin", then doing so (or not) will have no effect on whether the relationship lasts or not because you and your partner are not conservative.

Now as for why being conservative makes marriages last ? *shrug* maybe that's because of fear of being ostracised by their community or because of a genuine commitment to a god (which ever one it happens to be).

ps. I have no "stats" to back up my figures, its just an observation.

(By conservative I mean virginal church attending god fearing people who are probably tea totalers to boot)... gross simplification no doubt

I didn't live with my wife before we got married, and I'm happy as Larry (assumes Larry is a real happy guy). But we were together for ~5 years prior to marriage and I think you can get to know someone pretty damn well in such a timeframe.

Plus we're both cainers, not f***wits, which helps imo.

PS. Got married at 24 (mrs was 25).

u just got lucky orbs i reckon

she could have been a slobby snorer with bad hygiene who does no chores and you would have been TRAPPED FOR LYFE, blindsided!

not living with someone before marrying them is total madness (imo)

i learnt real early on, that some of my best mates were total jerks, by living with them

same goes for anyone, its easy to put on your happy face when you see people for a few hours a day, even easier when you look forward to seeing them

when you have to spend 24/7 with someone you see them at their low points and when they dont want to see you, and thats the real test of knowing if you can be with someone

its easy to be around people when things are good

not so easy when things arent

signed

spook channeling dr phil

I didn't live with my wife before we got married,

Did you do the hokey pokey though?

THIS IS MADDNESS

to all people who got married without living with their partner before hand:

is there a reason you wouldn't do this apart from a "no sex before marriage thing" because it does seem like a pretty risky strategy (for all of spook's reasons).

perhaps some people like suprises? (sif)

im encoutering a lot of people who didnt find out the sex of their babies before they were born

im adding them to the "total madness" list im writing up

ok this "total madness" list might be fun.

Infi and is PD needs a fkn higher post limiter

To be honest, I think the main factor in whether a marriage will work or not is the personality of the two people involved.

haha

...yes

did you only just come up with that one kat?

Well I am reading page upon page about crap statistics about living together, age, and all that mumbo jumbo and it is pretty obvious most of you don't have a friggin clue.

Then again, I have a habit of expecting more from QGL and being disappointed time after time. This could be one of those times.

75% agree with Kat.

i hear shotgun weddings are all the rage in milan kat... oh wait, missed that boat.

also OP, pics of self or lying

I look forward to a long and pointless thread from this point. :P

Kat wins!

mantrap speaks the truth. unfortunately.

The first pancake rule basically refers to the fact that when cooking pancakes, the first one is generally a sacrificial pancake that gets discarded. It's just used to ensure that the pan is ready etc, to make sure that the subsequent pancakes are awesome.

Exactly. The same applies to life/relationships - this is where Catholics really get things wrong.
The first few f***s/girlfriends are disposable, and experimental. Just cos the first one is pretty good doesn't mean the rest aren't going to be better.

i guess we're all just referring to the seldom discussed case of the monty hall problem where you pick the correct door straight away? OF THE TWO REMAINING DOORS, IF YOU'RE RIGHT, SHOULD YOU CHANGE YOUR DOOR TO ANOTHER DOOR?

I look forward to a long and pointless thread from this point.

I heart pointlessness.

That riddle f***ed with my head for some time when I first read it persay. Can't remember the original wording.

hah

the no sex before marriage thing has not stopped ANY catholic i know from doing it :P

Wow... I don't go to QGL for a whole day and this is what happens?

Firstly, ara

So, it was it published or was it just something discussed in your course?

I would be interested in reading their methods and controls because it sounds very dubious to me.

I tried replying to this this morning but BPA crapped out on me as I was typing. I looked through my notes and couldn't find out anymore details, but it was more than a "discussion" the class had. She was referring to an empirical study which I only remember because it was counter intuitive. I'm going to email my lecture and ask for more details and a reference for you and I really hope I got my facts right.

Obes:

Research has shown that you're more likely to get divorced if you live with the person first. The longer you lived with the person the more likely you will get divorced too.



I think this is case of an incorrect conclusion being drawn from statistics.

There are no conclusions being drawn there - just the stats (which as I just said I really hope I got right in quoting and will report back when I get a reply from my lecturer). If what I wrote is correct, it's not implying that the reason couples get divorced is because they lived together first.

I offer this explanation for your statistics.
More conservative people are less like to live in sin.
More conservative people are less likely to get divorced.

That's on explanation and there's possibly more, again what I wrote wasn't meant to be implying any cause.

ps. I have no "stats" to back up my figures, its just an observation.

What I love about stats is that it often proves intuitive thinking incorrect (again which is hopefully why I remembered this correctly!??!)

Kat:

Well I am reading page upon page about crap statistics about living together, age, and all that mumbo jumbo and it is pretty obvious most of you don't have a friggin clue.

Stats is much more useful than saying, "most people I know did this..." and "most people I know did that". It's more useful because it's stats which you need to learn about to understand. Again, if I recalled correctly, I wasn't trying to say that the stats imply that you shouldn't live together first, just that you're more likely to get divorced if you do, which may or may not be BECAUSE you lived together.

from the author of clit piercings comes...... marriage

There are no conclusions being drawn there

Actually there is. They are deriving a relationship between 2 statistics. ie. they are implying one has some direct relationship to the other by using them in a single sentence in a if something then result, condition.

Actually there is. They are deriving a relationship between 2 statistics. ie. they are implying one has some direct relationship to the other by using them in a single sentence in a if something then result, condition.

I'm not sure which sentence you're talking about, but I think I see the problem:

Research has shown that you're more likely to get divorced if you live with the person first.

So without knowing any other circumstances, if you compare two people who are married, one couple lived together first, the other didn't, the couple who lived together first are more likely to get divorced based on previous statistics.

from the author of clit piercings comes...... marriage

I tried to post something similar yesterday and it disappeared :(

fyi, being married is awesome

it just took me 9 years to whip wifey into a marryable shape

Marrying young still seems a bit weird to me. I just find that life is starting to get good at 21.. yes if you're married u share it with someone... but why not share it with someone(s)?

Yer i dunno, but if it works do it.. it if doesn't.. u should of thought it through more.

why do people need a big ceremony to show they love each other? I find it pointless.
Only way im doing it is if the brides folks pay for it. Even then i want them to pay for the bucks party at a brothel and strip club. TITTIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

marriage is just a piece of paper imo

You know, it is a crazy concept but some people don't want to love someone(s) they want to be with one person and one person alone - and some people are capable of making this choice at a young age.

I understand that there are plenty of people who don't think like me (thank god :p) doesn't mean I try and tell them what they should do based on what I would do.

Well the whole point is there is no right answer, which is exactly why you should wait.

I think back to how f***ing different I was as a person in a relationship 5 years ago when I was 20 compared to now. I work with a lot of parents too and all the ones who talk about what they would do differently say they would want to travel before they got married and had kids... I personally would love to travel with a partner (just gotta find a girl who's willing to sleep with me first) because I think it would make it that bit extra special, but at the same time I would definitely like to go with a couple of mates and just tear s*** up.

Well the whole point is there is no right answer, which is exactly why you should wait.

Just because there's no single right answer that fits everyone and there's no way of knowing what the right answer for anyone is, doesn't mean everyone should wait. For some that would be the right thing to do, for others it would be a mistake. Given there's no right answer the right thing to do is not give advice (especially broad generalisations) unless you know everything about someone's specific situation.

False.

If there is a chance that you could get it wrong, which there is for everyone, there is a correct answer.

If you're in love now and you really want to get married, wait 5 years and see if you still do and then get married. No harm no foul.

Are you saying you should be together for more than 5 years before getting married, or you should have a 5 year long engagement?

Neither really... I was more trying to make the point that if you're young, then there is no harm in waiting, because if you're right about your feelings then they will be the same and you will still be with the same person.

I think a LOT of maturing goes on in the early 20's, so it would be a shame if people rushed into a big decision like this before they are really adults.

Neither really... I was more trying to make the point that if you're young, then there is no harm in waiting, because if you're right about your feelings then they will be the same and you will still be with the same person.

MOD PARENT UP.

If you wait and still get married anyway, you've lost absolutely nothing (at least, nothing that I can think of - does being married get you any tax breaks or things that are actually useful?)

You've also probably saved more money (weddings are expensive, at least if you do them the way girls want) so are in a better financial position (and can spend money on stuff that is fun/important instead, and then maybe have an ever better wedding later).

Marriage is something people do when they run out of other things to do, and then they have children because they think what else is there to do I am married now. A life of selfish self destruction and bitterness is the way too go. If I was married and had kids, she would probably be a complete scruber and my kids would sell drugs to other children and I would not care.

Neither really... I was more trying to make the point that if you're young, then there is no harm in waiting, because if you're right about your feelings then they will be the same and you will still be with the same person.

In that case, I agree with you. But everyone will have a different definition of how long is long enough :) My fiancé and I have been together for 6 years, have three kids between the two of us and are pretty much the boring married couple already. Anyone tells me to wait longer can go jump :P

(weddings are expensive, at least if you do them the way girls want)

They don't have to be and more people need to focus on the marriage instead of the wedding and maybe our divorce rates won't be so messed up like they are now. We are looking at around $5k for our wedding. And even that makes me cringe.

False.

Stopped reading here because you're an idiot.

Sorry but you're one f***ed up fruitcake if that's what you believe. Marriage being something one does when they run out of things to do is pure bollocks.

Firstly I don't believe in getting married young. I was 27, my wife 24 and we've been married 19 years and all happily. Men don't mature enough until they are in their late 20's in my opinion. Women are earlier and can be mature enough for marriage in their mid 20's. I also believe in knowing the other half for quite some time before making any permanent commitments, like buying houses, having children or getting married. It is easy to make a mistake especially with the first serious woman in your life.

Marriage is about commitment. I mean when you are in a relationship and you finally want to buy a house together and have children toegther then it's time to make a long term commitment to each other and forge it through marriage. Marriage seals the commitment and reinforces it. If you can't commit to marriage as along term commitment, then you're more unlikely to commit to other long term commitments like a mortgage or having children. All long term propositions not worthy of just something that popped into your head and I'll give it a try and if it sucks, least I'm not married and can just get up and walk out, type approach. For men that's weak and for women that's just plain stupid.

Also you can still go on your overseas trips when you're married. Being married doesn't stop you enjoying life and enjoying your mates, going fishing, drinking and exploring the world around you. If you think that then you're sorely wrong. The idea is to have several years to just you and your spouse/girlfriend. Once you have enjoyed each other and the experiences together then it can be time to knuckle down, have kids and work towards a permament future all happily together. Even during this time you can still go fishing, see your mates, go overseas (overseas trips just costs more now cause you've got more people to take).

I don't believe fully in children out of wedlock. The children deserve a stable marriage of the parents where the parents have made a formal commitment for the long haul to one another and to you the children. Marriage again reinforces these feelings in children that you're going to try and give it the best shot and are committed to the long haul. Children need these securities.

Besides that marriage is also about you and your wife. It makes a final declaration of eternal love for your partner. You know, people do find this important to their own self identity and as a result do have happy fulfilling marriages all the time. Yes 50% may end up in divorce but why gloss over the fact that 50% do find themselves completed in their marriage. You know people do find their lifelong partners, it's not a fairytale, it can and does actually happen for 50% who get married.

Anyways as I said I've been married for 19 years have three kids 8 y/old girl, 10 y/old girl and 12 y/old boy. Since my marriage and the birth of my children I've never known happiness as much as now. BTW yes it's tough work, yes it's at time very stressful (especially when your kids are ill), yes it can be draining but overall the positive outcomes far outweigh the negative shortomings.

I love kids and I bet you all are grateful you were born and enjoyed being kids. Generally married parents do that, people willing to commit for the long haul and have children so that they can enjoy life like you did. That's the greatest gift of all.

With Weddings - weddings are public celebrations demonstrating your commitment to one another and displayed to the people who mean most to you in the world around you. I for one enjoyed every minute of my wedding with my wife. She did too. What a great way to start a marriage, a huge ceremony to bond one another and a huge party afterwards. Couldn't ask for a better start.

Before KAT comes raging in about my kids out of wedlock statement. Kat if you're going to have kids to someone without first committing to being there for the long haul ala marriage, then don't bother. Yes it works sometimes, but not often. Kids deserve parents willing to make hard commitments and hard sacrifices and follow through. Not those that think "Oh, I forgot to take the pill or he forgot to wear a condom in the heat of the moment" and vuela kids. This may not describe you but it describes many. Put it this way if you're willing to have kids with your partner which is a commitment for the long haul then you should be willing to commit to marriage. Otherwise you're just someone willing to have kids to any Tom, Dick or Infi.

last edited by Some Fat Bastard at 11:21:58 19/Sep/07

Cameron has never been in love. At least, nobody's ever been in love with him. If things don't change for him, he's gonna marry the first girl he lays, and she's gonna treat him like s***, because she will have given him what he has built up in his mind as the end-all, be-all of human existence. She won't respect him, 'cause you can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work.

edit: while i'm explaining my views on women/marriage via moofie quotes, here's another winnar:

Grandpa: Can I give you some advice?
Dwayne: [shakes head - no]
Grandpa: Well I'm going to give it to you anyway. I don't want you making the same mistakes I made when I was young. Dwayne, that's your name, right? Dwayne? Listen to me, this is the voice of experience talking - are you listening? f*** a lot of women, Dwayne.
Richard: Dad!
Grandpa: I got no reason to lie to you kid, f*** a lotta women. Not just one, a lot. So are you gettin' any? Is it going anywhere?
Dwayne: [shakes his head no]
Grandpa: No? Jesus! What are you? 15? You should be gettin' that young stuff!

last edited by taggs at 11:27:30 19/Sep/07

Forgot to say my son's football team one their divisions rugby league grand final on Saturday against Forest Lake. Wynnum Juniors 38 defeated Forest Lake 18. Wynnum in the ladder for the season were 2nd with Forest Lake first. Wynnum played them in the first semi-final and won 20 to nil. This was their best game all season. Forest Lake had been the gun team all season and beaten Wynnum during the season twice with quite substantial margins.

In the Grand Final Wynnum were down 18 to 4 at the end of the first half and came back in the second half to score 34 points unanswered. Now that's commitment.

Before anyone says rockapes play league, he's in the top 5 of is class, goes to Iona next year for high school and will continue to play league at Wynnum Juniors.

He plays front and second row, is a big lad and is awesome in taking the ball up and in defense.

A well deserved premiership for the Wynnum under 12's.

With Weddings - weddings are public celebrations demonstrating your commitment to one another and displayed to the people who mean most to you in the world around you. I for one enjoyed every minute of my wedding with my wife. She did too. What a great way to start a marriage, a huge ceremony to bond one another and a huge party afterwards. Couldn't ask for a better start.

A wedding these days. Say 100 quests (not so big that's 25 guests each plus partners), you can spend 10-15 grand on the food and drinks before you do anything...

And 50 guests each is not many, parents, 2 siblings (+2), 2 uncles (+2), 3 cousins (+3), 1 grandparent, 3/4 co-workers (+4), family friends (+whatever), your mates ....

Elope FTW!!!
Getting married in Vegas by Elvis, or in some traditional ceremony in japan is far cooler anyways.

The children deserve a stable marriage of the parents where the parents have made a formal commitment for the long haul to one another and to you the children

I would probably agree with this if it wasn't for the trivial UNDO option that is available for marriage.

With Weddings - weddings are public celebrations demonstrating your commitment to one another and displayed to the people who mean most to you in the world around you. I for one enjoyed every minute of my wedding with my wife.

That's cool, and I'm glad you enjoyed it - but who gives a s*** what other people think? Surely if a couple isn't comfortable knowing that their respective partners are happy and secure in the relationship without a wedding, the wedding isn't going to really help?

Kat if you're going to have kids to someone without first committing to being there for the long haul ala marriage, then don't bother

Too late buddy. Plus, having kids with someone is a bigger commitment than marriage. You can't just divorce and walk away from the parent of your child.

^ Trog it's horses for courses.

but who gives a s*** what other people think?

Did I say so. No. Conjecture on your part. Most people find the celebration of their marriage meaningful to them and an exhilerating experience and not concerned with others blessings nor seek them. Should they be considered foolish for doing so?

Surely if a couple isn't comfortable knowing that their respective partners are happy and secure in the relationship without a wedding, the wedding isn't going to really help?

It's not about seeking security, Trog, a wedding is about celebration. A completely different concept. Don't you like parties and celebrations? I do.

Too late buddy. Plus, having kids with someone is a bigger commitment than marriage. You can't just divorce and walk away from the parent of your child.

Did I say it was. No. But you can still walk out on your kids and provide nothing more than financial assistance and not particpate in their upbringing nor in their life experiences quite easily Kat.

To some also caring for children is not a commitment. It was easy having them, not so easy rearing them. They didn't think of that at the time of conception though.

on and there we go, thats all the thread needed

the SFB factor

SFB: In my opinion someone's skills as a parent are totally different than their skills as a husband/wife.

You seem to be forgetting you are preaching to the choir. I am well aware of what a child needs and that many parents don't provide that..... It has nothing to do with if a marriage is in progress or not.

^ as I said Kat, this may not desribe you, but it does describe many who have.

Yes you're right about the two different roles also. I'm glad to see you understand so. Good luck with your marriage, hope you, your hubby and your kids have long and prosperous times together.

Cheers

I think I could only conclude what a lot of people have here - yes there are generalizations about age, and when males and females mature etc etc - but at the end of the day, you dont know what goes on behind closed doors and each couple is going to be different.

Im 22 and Im going to the wedding of one of my mates from highschool in a couple of weeks. Now I was shocked when he proposed. Not because of age or maturity or the fact that they were each others first and only relationship - but because all I can remember from highschool was we would always have to change our plans if his girlfriend was going to be involved because she didnt approve of jus about everything, and he could never really be himself around her. Im concerned about someone making the decision to get married - if their partner and future wife has not accepted you for who you are completely.

On the other hand, one of my best friends (21) and her fiance have been together 9 years - since she was 12 - they have been engaged for 2 and are tying the knot next year. But these two have always just seemed to be more like one person - like it was always meant/going to be. They have the utmost respect and care for one another and its something to admire.

As for me, my partner and I have been together about 3 years and have lived together for a year. We talk about marriage and family etc - but its not just because its a logical next step of because we have run out of things to do - its just planning our lives together. We dont know when its going to happen (definately not within the next 4 years of uni) but we want to share our lives together and make that commitment for ourselves but also to acknowledge and share our love for one another infront of all the people we care about.

All of you who seem to be so cynical and down on the whole idea have perhaps not met the person you want to make that commitment to. If you know - you know - and there arent so many questions.

I feel dirty because I tend to agree with what most of SFB is saying.. Queue the four horsemen please.

Too late buddy. Plus, having kids with someone is a bigger commitment than marriage. You can't just divorce and walk away from the parent of your child.

Only because of the legal ramifications of doing so, and that the law simply doesn't allow one to do so. Emotionally you certainly can do it.

You have to deal with far more bulls*** with the parent of your child than you do with your ex husband/wife (no children).

To say marriage means more commitment is false

First off, let me say that Kat is an excellent mother. And anyone that knows her will agree.

Secondly, marriage and kids would take the same level of committment but just done differently. However that's just my view and since I'm not married or have kids I'm prolly wrong and what would I know. Speaking of kids, I can barely look after myself so kids are a big no for me.

This question is basically asking how long is a piece of string.

People mature at different rates.
People have different hopes, dreams, aspirations and goals in life.

If you and your partners match, and you get along well and you respect each other, are honest etc. then I say go for it.

But the idea that you have to ask if you're ready/too young seems to suggest you are reserved and not ready for such a commitment.

Personally, I'd get engaged before living with someone [and thereafter moving in etc], but not married.

all you people in love make me wanna puke

all you people in love make me wanna puke

Why so? Is it because you can't find the man of your dreams?

He's being facetious :)

I'm seeing my lecturer tomorrow so I can find more... but just did a quick bit of research:

This study examines a variety of important aspects of marriage, cohabitation, and divorce among young adults. Using longitudinal data obtained in high school, men and women in their early twenties were compared on the basis of whether they have or have not cohabited, in general, and, for those who married, whether they had cohabited prior to marriage. Prior to cohabiting, future cohabitors reported significantly more frequent drug use, poorer relationships with family and friends, and more nontraditional personality traits than noncohabitors. Using concurrent data obtained from the young adults, these same groups were compared on a variety of variables related to autonomy needs, dependency conflicts, friendship network, and quality of life. Cohabitors tended to have more dependency conflicts, somewhat more autonomy needs, more sexually active friendship network, and lower life satisfaction in many areas, compared with noncohabitors. It was also found that premarital cohabitors had significantly higher divorce rates than those who did not cohabit before marriage. Results are discussed in terms of life stage, maturity level, and autonomy/affiliation needs.

Taken from

Cohabitation, Marriage and Divorce among Adolescents and Young Adults.
Newcomb, Michael D.1
1)University of California, Los Angeles, CA, US
Journal of Social and Personal Relationships. Vol 3(4), Dec 1986, pp. 473-494

Also:

The relationship between premarital cohabitation and marital dysfunction was examined with a total sample of 1,425 spouses in two U.S. marriage cohorts: those married between 1964 and 1980 (when cohabitation was less common) and those married between 1981 and 1997 (when cohabitation was more common). Spouses in both cohorts who cohabited prior to marriage reported poorer marital quality and greater marital instability. When selection factors for cohabitation and subsequent marital instability were included in the statistical model, cohabitors in both cohorts continued to exhibit poorer marital quality and greater marital instability. These findings lend stronger support to an experience of cohabitation perspective than to a selection perspective as an explanation for why couples who cohabit before marriage tend to have more troubled relationships.

From

Title The Relationship Between Cohabitation and Marital Quality and Stability: Change Across Cohorts?.
Author Dush, Claire M. Kamp1; Cohan, Catherine L.1; Amato, Paul R.2
Affiliation (1)Department of Human Development and Family Studies, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA, US; (2)Department of Sociology, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA, US
Source Journal of Marriage and Family. Vol 65(3), Aug 2003, pp. 539-549

There's a fkn ton of other articles talking about how cohabitors have worse marriages, but a lot are from the 80's and 90's so I'm trying to find some more recent stuff. They all seem to agree though.

Another... one of the authors of this one, Amato, gets cited a s*** load and seems to have a massive list of studies to his name.

Using data from two national surveys of married individuals--one from 1980 and the other from 2000--to understand how three dimensions of marital quality changed during this period. Marital happiness and divorce proneness changed little between 1980 and 2000, but marital interaction declined significantly. A decomposition analysis suggested that offsetting trends affected marital quality. Increases in marital heterogamy, premarital cohabitation, wives' extended hours of employment, and wives' job demands were associated with declines in multiple dimensions of marital quality. In contrast, increases in economic resources, decision-making equality, nontraditional attitudes toward gender, and support for the norm of lifelong marriage were associated with improvements in multiple dimensions of marital quality. Increases in husbands' share of housework appeared to depress marital quality among husbands but to improve marital quality among wives.

Title Continuity and change in marital quality between 1980 and 2000.
Author Amato, Paul R.1; Johnson, David R.1; Booth, Alan1; Rogers, Stacy J.1
Affiliation (1)Pennsylvania State U, University Park, PA, US
Source Journal of Marriage and Family. Vol 65(1), Feb 2003, pp. 1-22

Again there's nothing here from the past few years, but I don't think these trends would have changed much.

One of the original comments I made was wrong though. I said somethign along the lines of, the longer you live together before getting married the more likely you are to get divorced. That is not what the research says. There is a point, like seven years or something, where if you live together for that long first and then get married, you have the same chance of getting divorced as marrying without cohabitating.

last edited by B.Hardball at 23:15:59 19/Sep/07

He's being facetious :)

...and I was joking.

The chance of rain is increased by the number of people with umbrellas.
Its easy to prove as there are vastly more people with umbrellas on rainy days.

Stupid arguement sure ... but stats are just that, stats. And you can make them say just about anything you want, particularly when trying to find relationships between 2 complex data sets. For instance was there a correlation between going to church regularly ? did they drink ? were all their parents alive and were they church goers ? did they come from particular socio economic groups ? eg. One of the quotes you use is specifically talking about "Adolescents and Young Adults".

Atleast Amato uses soft language like "decomposition analysis suggested" and "were associated"...

My brother in law is a statistician, and I was kind of surprised how small a sample can be, to be considered statistically valid.

I guess the point I am making is. And it seems to be getting lost.

If you are ok with the concept of pre-marital co-habitation, then you may be more open to divorce (the stats certainly would seem to support that). But what none of those quotes hint at is whether the actual act helps or hinders a marriage for couple that were open/ok to pre-marital cohabitation.

Who knows perhaps for people who are open to co-habitation, living together before getting married reduces divorce rates ?

(ie. imo saying "lets not live together because it'll make our marriage work" is BS)

ps. When I was at uni I did a few units on AI, it was humourous watching a machine learning algorithm pull all sorts of weird relationships out of datasets where none really existed. Not that the algorithm wasn't working, but rather that some important piece of column information wasn't present, or extra/useless data was present.

Worth noting arranged marriages have the greatest chance of success... or is that because divorce in Indian Culture is heavily frowned upon and its a huge population where arranged marriages are the norm ...

Obes, I have said from the beginning that it's not necessarily a causal relationship.

Btw, stats in psyc never pretend to "prove" anything.

I think the issue is not if a marriage works, but just how easy an out divorce is seen these days.

I remember the days when a couple used to work through their issues and divorce was never an option. Now "Oh well, if it doesn't work, we can just get divorced"

I remember the days when a couple used to work through their issues and divorce was never an option.

Kat, sometimes I wonder about you. The old system was worse than it is now. Women before had very little if any options in getting out of an abusive marriage short of spousal murder, that's why the divorce laws were changed. The primary change was either spouse without the agreement of the husband could apply for divorce and it be accepted by the courts. Prior the husband basically only had the right to divorce without the wife's agreement whereas if the wife initiated proceedings she had to still get the husbands agreement for it to proceed or no divorce.

Take it from me, it took ten years from when I was five for my mother to get this legal right to divorce my violent, abusive father without his consent. If you want to go back to the days when children saw their mother with blood streaming down their face with a broken nose and crumpled over with a broken rib all from the punches from their father and then find her only option to get out of the marriage is attempt suicide go and live in Pakistan. I sure don't want to ever see that happen again.

last edited by Some Fat Bastard at 09:17:56 20/Sep/07

Obes, I have said from the beginning that it's not necessarily a causal relationship.

O RLY?

Research has shown that you're more likely to get divorced if you live with the person first.

It may not have been what you meant, but that language suggests a causal relationship. It's better to say something like "there is a correlation between" because it doesn't overextend what can be drawn from the stats.

Some Fat Bastard - Way to take it overboard. Just because the laws have changed to support women, doesn't mean it isn't now being abused. I see plenty of people get married and see Divorce as a simple way out if it doesn't work - never a hand is raised within those relationships, they just can't be bothered.

I am talking about people not giving a s*** about what marriage means and seeing an easy out so they take it, rather than work through any issues that arise.

I am not talking about walking away from a marriage due to abuse or adultery, I am talking about walking away - because they can.

Now I agree with Kat.. oh I'm so torn! There is a distinct correleation between what I had for breakfast and who I agree with though. On Mon/Tues it was Cereal and I agreed with SFB, today it was Raisin toast and fruit and now Kat's winning.

It may not have been what you meant, but that language suggests a causal relationship. It's better to say something like "there is a correlation between" because it doesn't overextend what can be drawn from the stats.

I think that is the problem most people have with what I said, which is why I amended it in a post I made aaaages ago. Point taken though.

Now I agree with Kat.. oh I'm so torn! There is a distinct correleation between what I had for breakfast and who I agree with though. On Mon/Tues it was Cereal and I agreed with SFB, today it was Raisin toast and fruit and now Kat's winning.

Neither of these would be statistically significant:p

are you suggesting that global warming ISN'T related to the decline in pirates?

I remember the days when a couple used to work through their issues and divorce was never an option. Now "Oh well, if it doesn't work, we can just get divorced"

Did you know that marriage is the number one reason why we have divorce? I have a plain to cut divorce rates by 100%, stop all marriages.

By Joe, I think he is onto something!!!!

My view isn't to get rid of divorce completely, in some cases divorce is the best case scenario.

not all divorces are of marriage though

Btw, stats in psyc never pretend to "prove" anything.

Then they should stop calling it a "science"

Oh snap. It can make claims though with a 99.99% certainty;) If any "science" claims anything is 100% true, you should have a think about it.

I find all that statistical analysis interesting Billy, but do any papers go on to state the reasons why the numbers favour non-cohabitation? Initially the idea seems counter intuitive.

are you suggesting that global warming ISN'T related to the decline in pirates?

Wasn't it International talk like an environmentally-friendly-female-activist-with-a-habit-of-not-shaving-your-underarms-and-lobbying-to-deny-a-Coles-at-Maleny day today?

and no as ppl seem to think he is not the first guy i have slept with, nor is he my first serious relationship, had one in high school as well.

fair enough

WHORE!#@#!@!@##!@!#

I find all that statistical analysis interesting Billy, but do any papers go on to state the reasons why the numbers favour non-cohabitation? Initially the idea seems counter intuitive.

Do you have access to any library data bases? It's pretty neat just to go looking through articles and reading the abstracts. To answer your question though, some of them do look at other correlations, but again they cannot conclusively say one thing causes the other but just examine relationships between variables.

When reading them you've got to keep in mind the difference between speculation and hypothesis vs proven facts. Sometimes the line can get a little blurry if you're not paying close enough attention.

WHORE!#@#!@!@##!@!#

Got married at 23.

Turn 25 in march.

No problems, yet.

What the stats do tell you is that if you co-habitat with your partner before getting married, you have a higher chance of divorce if you get married compared to a couple who hasn't co inhabited. The stats have meaning when asked the question along the lines of: If I co-habitat with my partner, will my chances for divorce be greater or lower then a couple who hasn't?

If you a more specific answer then the percent chance of divorce, you need to ask more specific questions, questions which the stats cannot answer.

Statistics is all about the questions you ask of it.

I still don't get how living together gives you a higher chance of divorce - it just doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe those who don't hold the act of marriage as strongly as those who do, are more likely to live with their partner before they get married? But then again even then I can't see how those who don't live together out number the ones who do




last edited by Kat at 09:38:03 21/Sep/07

It's simple, if you live with your partner before marriage, you're only with them to f*** them, and there's no point in marrying them and signing in yourself for a contract when you can get prepaid when you're feeling a lil frisky. Hence if the marriage does go ahead one way or another, it's bound to crash and burn.

/swooping generalisation.


last edited by Bullet Rain at 11:35:16 21/Sep/07

Kat and Bullet Rain, i think that you're on the right track. That is the only real difference I can see: Attitude towards the institution of marriage.

i'm a whore because i've had two serious relationships? good thing i don't sleep around then... god knows what you'd say if i had actually done something immoral

no. i think they are joking

god knows what you'd say if i had actually done something immoral

That's when they'd like to get to know you.

trixx, welcome to QGL.

marriage is just being contractually bound in mutual insecurity

its for chumps and chicks

I've enjoyed being a married chump for nearly 18 years. Some of it tough, most of it really really good. From my wife's perspective: some of it good, most of it really really tough :D

jimbo is right on this one

marriage is awesome

i thought our first 9 years was good, despite some rough patches (for both of us), id say getting married has taken it to the next level of awesomeness

plus i can be much nortier now and its harder for her to get rid of me

i dont have a problem with marriage itself really
its just annoyed me seeing so many people i know do traditional s***, not because they wanted to, but because its what was expected of them.

i dont like the idea of having to work within the constraints of other peoples expectations on whats meant to be one of the best days of your life

That's when they'd like to get to know you.

LMFAO

I still don't get how living together gives you a higher chance of divorce - it just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe those who don't hold the act of marriage as strongly as those who do, are more likely to live with their partner before they get married? But then again even then I can't see how those who don't live together out number the ones who do

The whole reason I brought it up is because it's counter intuitive and surprising. Subsequent research has gone into why this is the case and there are a heap of possible causes. You can pretty much make up your own reasons and you would probably be partially correct. I don't however understand what you mean by:

But then again even then I can't see how those who don't live together out number the ones who do

?

Another possible explanation is maybe the couples who cohabitate before marriage are younger and have had less life experience, whereas people who get married might be older and more experienced, really understanding what it means to "settle down" with just one person. The younger people (who live together first) might be in relationships that are going to break down regardless of marriage or not.

Again this is purely speculation and considering as of two hours ago I'm on holidays, I don't really feel like looking at too much more research right meow.

Actually reading what I just wrote about the age differences probably is totally wrong because I'm pretty sure the studies I looked at controlled for age differences.

I am most wise am I not? I predicted a rambling decline in the thread once Kat said something sensible, and here we are.

You may all tell me how clever I am.

you are very clever denver

Marriage is a lot of work... a lot lot LOT of work. Some people go into it with starts in their eyes and think the initial feelings will last forever and when things get bumpy they are surprised.
Then sometimes marriages just devolve into friendships, no animosity but they drift apart...
I lived with my wife before getting married.