I am a normal young man, medium build with a bit of a gut but no muscle definition.
Now as we are all aware, summer is coming upon us pretty fast. For once in my life I want to be proud to take of my shirt. I want my pecs and abs to be bulging, and females to be lusting after my toned body.

I joined a local gym yesterday and am looking forward to daily weight training and swimming. I have never done this before, but I have read quite a few articles in Ralph and Mens Health...has anyone tried a magazine regime?

As I get de-motivated quickly, I need to see results very soon - Like within 3 weeks. Is this possible if I have a solid workout everyday?

Another point of interest is protein/whey suppliments, can anyone suggest a brand product that works?
I have not ruled out using Steroids, as I want this very bad, very quickly.
How much do Steroids cost? I want tablets, no way am I jabbing myself.
Can you use Steroids to give you a "kick-start" and have muscles building, then lay off them once you have a building block to work with?

I suppose asking about this on a nerd forum is not the best place, but we are a diverse bunch.
See what info you can hit me with...

Steroids will make your penis small to what it already is... are you sure you want to take that path??

I thought those side effects were only due to extended roid abuse? I would only be using them for a few weeks max - a kickstart.
Its not like you pop a pill and watch your balls turn into saltanas...

they dont make your penis small, they make your testes small. so mix in some ball enlarging tablets with your steriod fix

Like within 3 weeks. Is this possible if I have a solid workout everyday?

No f***ing way,
No f***ing way,
and also, did I mention,
No f***ing way?

Yes you will see results, but not what you're expecting! (buldging/really well toned muscles).

I myself do gym every day/every second day (in fact I just got home from gym).
A rest for a day or two every so often is a good idea to give your body a bit of a break to fix itself up.
I have rather well toned muscle when they're actually working (lifting weights etc.) and really am just after them looking like that when they're resting, but even that is a big step, let alone getting huge pecs.

If you heal quickly (when you cut yourself etc.) then the chances are you will see rapid VISUAL differences in your muscles.
Muscles become bigger because fibres tear, when they repair, they scar.
The scarring is what makes them bigger.
The faster you heal, the more scarring you get.

So someone with huge muscles might not necessarily be as strong as someone with far far smaller muscles.
(as an example, a guy at my gym the other day was bench pressing over 170kg [8 rep sets] and he was not -that- built).
He was also doing the huge 55KG dumbells.

With that said, if you want your pecs to buldge out quickly, start doing pushups every day/night.
Have your hands placed in line with your shoulders, but about 5cm out from your body, this will work your outer pec.
The inner part you'll have to use dumbells/gym machine.

Goodluck getting any HUGE visual improvements in three weeks.

Also, if you have a bit of a gut, incorporate some running/strenuous activity to burn some more energy (kj/cal) off.

Keep to it.

A note I missed,
If you want a good workout and really hammer your muscles for everything they've got, always work your sets to fatgiue (its called 'overloading').

If you can do 3 sets of 6-10 reps each with 2 minutes rest in between, you're doing the right weight for you.
(Well this is the program I have chosen anyway).

I bench press.
2x heaviest weight (to fatigue on both sets)
2x next heaviest weight (5kg less) to fatigue on both sets
1x next weight down
1x next weight down
etc.
etc.
Until I'm down to the bar knocking off 5kg each set.

By Fatigue it means you're pushing/lifting with all you have, but you get nowhere/just cant do it.
Ensure you have a spotter with you to help you out if you're doing the bench-press.

I usually do:-
Preacher curls (biceps)
Hammer curls (forearm)
Bench press
Dumbells (fly's etc. etc. etc.)
For upper body.
Legs I dont particularly worry too much since I get a good workout with riding/running.

Find a program/workout you like and stick to it for a few weeks, once you stop getting any gains and plataeu out, change the workout you're doing, incorporate different muscles etc.
(example:- change to incline bench press, then once you're not getting gains on that, decline bench press... no gains --> Normal bench press... make it a cycle).

There WILL be a point that you plateau out, basically your muscles become used to the workout you're giving them, your fast twitch fibres will still burn out (quick bursts of power) but your slow twitch (strength/endurance) fibres will sit back and become lazy.

and a good diet of course without a good diet you wont get far, so all in all you should have started working out last summer to have good results now, its not an easy job unless you naturally bulk/cut

I know, I tried, got sick of it. hehehe :D

^^
Dont really worry about diet too much if you're doing plenty of exercise.
Of course, I guess it depends on what you're aiming for, some people will swear you cant eat this s*** and that s*** to get good muscle development.

But all it really comes down to is getting all the right vitamins etc. etc. the body needs, and energy (kilojoules/cal).

For abs to show you need single figure percentage body fat (usually around 8% they'll show), and that is NOT an easy task.
If single-figures is what you want, then yes diet will be a major issue.
Of course, if you're in your single figure body fat percentages, the rest of your body will have less body fat encompasing muscles/arms etc. and give off a more well refined look.

Be prepared for a major psychological and physical battle if that is your goal.

Most body-builders you'll see in comps etc. come down to somewhere in the order of 3-4% body fat, which is actually very detrimental to health.
Generally speaking they will only bring that percentage so low before a competition for a short period of time.

I think it has to do with your body type, some people rely on a better diet while others dont thats the thing ... seeing a doctor or someone who could tell you about your body type could potentially help in achieveing the results you're after

Oh yeah Loki .. some of the proffesionals are just crazy, there are these drugs that specifically burn fat and they take them before competitions to get those definitions out, also losing a lot of liquid at a sauna or somethin like that will get your muscles showing as well

so to get the look of those proffesionals its pretty damn crazy, nothing I am prepared to do ... im generaly just after looking healthy thats about it

if you want to go every day, be sure not to work the same muscles every day.

for example

do legs one day (quads, hams, calves, glutes, groin) and on the next to arms and chest (pecks, biceps, triceps, delts, lats)

also, don't do cardio and wieght training in the same session. if you do cardio first you use up all your carbs and have a s*** workout, if you do cardio after your workout your body scavenges the damaged muscle, muscle that you want repaired (scared) to get bigger.

i like whey suppliments, once you start using them after your workout, your body really craves them and you will repair quicker. also, try some cretean before you work out on a 5weeks on, 5weeks off pattern.

as for bulking up in 3 weeks, i don't think so. stay away from setroids, bad news. furthermore a course of stan or debol will take longer then 3 weeks to complete anyway and unless you know how to manage it it will just all melt away afterwards.

just my 2cents.

OCAU Fitness forums
(youll need to signup to read, theres some smart dudes in there who can help you out)

Dont do weights every day, go every second
The time in between is when the muslces will heal etc, and bulk

3 weeks, you might not look physically bigger, but youll definately feel a change

Whoops, should have mentioned what trent said about splitting muscle groups :)

Wow! Awesome replies fellas. I've learnt alot already.

Loki, do you use any suppliments?

Trent, what is the name of the whey stuff that you get? How expensive is it?

I've heard of Creatine, can anyone explain what that is or their experience with it?

also, don't do cardio and wieght training in the same session. if you do cardio first you use up all your carbs and have a s*** workout, if you do cardio after your workout your body scavenges the damaged muscle, muscle that you want repaired (scared) to get bigger.

Trent, I skipped robe for about 5 minutes to warm up. Is that a bad thing to do?. Should I to skip and just go straight to weights?.

I haven't read the previous replies, but if you want to get built/ripped quick, learn about HOW your body does it first. In 3 weeks, you won't get much improvement (a little if you do everything right).

Your body changes by rebuilding itself (hence bodyBUILDING). This happens over time. Most body parts will take anywhere from about 3-5 days to heal after an intense workout. Apart from training right though, you have to eat right, which is probably even MORE important. You have to get enough meals in every day, and enough of the right stuff.

You said you have a bit of a gut as well, hence you will want to lose it, so do some cardio as well. I could write heaps on what to do and how to do it but it would just take up lots and lots of space :P

btw just read this comment:

Dont really worry about diet too much if you're doing plenty of exercise.

That's the worst bit of advice you could possibly take if you want to build/tone your body. A good training plan won't work if you don't keep a good diet, especially if you want to build muscle size/definition. You need plenty of water too to keep your muscles hydrated.

EDIT #2:
If you want your muscles to develop quickly, then don't take the advice of training the same body part every 2nd day. Train a body part maximum twice a week, and train it to failure each time. Since you're just starting out, don't go for a low rep range, since your muscles won't be used to it. Take a moderate weight and do more reps (aim for 10-15 for 3-4 sets). If you train to failure, you should feel sore for around 3-4 days (maybe more or less depending on the body part). If you only give each body part 1-2 days rest, you'll be doing more damage than good (your muscles get bigger by healing FULLY).

Think about this quote...

Your body grows while sleeping, not in the gym while working out

No offence, but you sound like a complete idiot.

I've been researching every aspect of bodybuilding for a few years now, so listen to me.

You guys are all too common - summer coming up so u think you're gonna get buffed in 2 months. Stop kidding yourself.

And stop reading those s***ty magazines. They're the same every week and are targetted at suckers like you who think you can "get ripped in 3 weeks".

Get serious or don't bother. There's a reason why not many people have really good bodies - it takes a hell of a lot of research, training, nutrition, and motivation.

And as for steroids - don't make me laugh. Maybe after 10 years of natural bodybuilding and research you'll be ready to try them, but if you've done your study properly you'd most likely opt against them.

You want my advice - buy a full years gym membership, start reading your ass off at www.bodybuilding.com and anything else you can get your hands on. There's a million different training programs, and everyone will tell you something different. It's up to you to sort through the bs and find out what works for you and what doesnt.

One piece of info for you though - diet is as important, if not more important as your time in the gym. And make sure you know what you're doing in there - don't just f*** around doing random s*** and think it will give you results. Also, stay clear of the dudes who work at gyms. They speak s***.

You have no idea how much your post has s***ted me.

I couldnt agree more with stez on this one. Give yourself a years worth of learning, researching and basic gym work. Diet is very important.

Mens health and all those other bulls*** magazines do more bad than good. I mean, common, would you _really_ trust a magazine that tells you you can have rock hard abs in a few weeks of training?

Don't make me laugh,

har har har

Dude it wont happen overnight.. but it will happen. Steriods are for pussys. You need to go to the gym on a regular basis, ligt big weights for big muscle.

I am a normal young man, medium build with a bit of a gut but no muscle definition.
Now as we are all aware, summer is coming upon us pretty fast. For once in my life I want to be proud to take of my shirt. I want my pecs and abs to be bulging, and females to be lusting after my toned body.

Well I'm your average computer nerd. I'm tall and wirey, and had pretty povo muscle tone and strength, ate about 1-3 small meals a day to keep me at that level.

As I get de-motivated quickly, I need to see results very soon - Like within 3 weeks. Is this possible if I have a solid workout everyday?

I'm also the same with the motivation part, I like to see results quickly, the sooner the better.

One day I started a Martial Art. I listen to my body, it got hungry, so I ate more. I ate what I felt was right, whenever I got hungry.
After half a week of training 1 1/2 hours everyday, of full on effort, breaking a sweet within 5 mins and staying that way for the 1 1/2 hours I was using muscles I havnt used for a long time and building up new ones.
I was soon eating 5-6 small meals in a day. Almost all of that went into building various bits and pieces on my body, very little went into fat storage, as I was eating my meals only 3 hours apart (or there abouts). Before I started I had very little body fat, my upper legs probably had the most flab.

After 2 weeks I had steped up my eating to 5-6 bigger meals throughout the day, with small snacks in between, that was getting expensive, I was always hungry. :(
I noticed a huge differnce in my general upper body shape within 2 weeks, with muscles filling the gaps in between my ribs, around the sides, firstly the upper part and now the lower sides are starting to get muscles. My back muscles were getting stronger and my stomach muscles were getting much more toned.
My arms toned right up very quickly and I was actually surprised at how quickly this happened.
My legs slowly got more toned to the point where the hamstrings were too tight and were pulling on my lower back causing them to get tired if I stood up too long. Stretching more often fixed that right up, I was pretty flexible before I started, now I'm even more flexible, which allows me to use my new found strengths even better.
Not to mention stretching can really help tone your muscles quickly. (PS, dont stretch cold)

I trained every day. Minus a couple of days here and there. (not many)

Now almost 2 months later, I can tense all my muscles up and they all feel very firm, ahha no more flabby legs. I have never been this strong and toned in my life.

What is more, I am learning various techniques that use all my muscles, or as many as I can at once. So that I can use these in various applications and well co-ordinated ways, I dont need them to buldge..
My balance, body control, and my MIND have also increased 10 fold, this has also boosted my confidence at the same rate, which was at an almost 0 level. My gaming abililty has also picked up.
Also my determination and self-disapline and motivation have also increased, only spuring me to train more. I feel lacking on the days that I dont train.

Another point of interest is protein/whey suppliments, can anyone suggest a brand product that works?

Yes, Fruit, vegitables and meat. Lots of milk, water and whatever juice you like.
And lots of it, dont rely on the quick fix.

have not ruled out using Steroids, as I want this very bad, very quickly.
How much do Steroids cost? I want tablets, no way am I jabbing myself.
Can you use Steroids to give you a "kick-start" and have muscles building, then lay off them once you have a building block to work with?

Do you really think steroids are worth it? A quick fix is never worth it, something quickly fixed is quickly broken, not to mention the weirdness that incorrect use of steroids can do to your body..



I highly recommend going to a Martial Arts that lets you train every day, instead of going to a gym.
However, going to a Martial Arts AND a Gym would be the best way. Not only will you use muscles that you normally wouldnt use, you will also learn how to use them in the Gym, to get the best out of both worlds.


So yer, I got results by doing martial arts within a 1 week. Noticable ones, in more areas then just the body..


EDIT: Heheh, one thing it hasnt helped me with is my spelling :D

You will need permission from a doctor if you want to start using steriods...

Also in regards to creatine it's very iffy iffy, you will notice results when you start using it, but its a different result when you STOP using it, you will feel less energetic when you stop using it and your muscles will start toneing down unless you keep up or increase that body building.

NINJA TOLL!

Ok heres my story!!

Atm i weigh a measly 55kg, and i have been that weight for like 1-3 years. This is me going to gyms, training in the state team for karate (same as tolls! :P) and training for karate for 5 years. and i STILL didnt gain anything. Sure im a bit stronger, but not really much.

Last week ive decided i want to get more weight, so i checked out this site www.skinnyguy.net. And i started to put his stuff into action....but as yet not a single kg! :( I guess im not eating enough :(

Cheer up Charlie. Eat more of those Wonka bars and you'll get there.

8-)

Depending on the individual they can thrash their muscle to fatigue every single day if they wanted to.

But generally speaking for everyone its hard to do damage unless you're doing something wrong.
The only damage you CAN do is tear a muscle or tendon, which can really only come from trying to do to much weight (i.e. too much strain) or incorrect technique.

That said, I go to gym every day I can, usually its 2-3 days in a row and then I'll miss a day or two due to work and back into it.

I heal *exceptionally* quickly though (as a downside I scar -very- easily), usually my riding injuries go from open wounds the size of my entire shoulder to being already a new layer of skin and most of the scab flaking off in a few days to less than a week.
(Sometimes it almost seems like out of 'unbreakable' the movie :D )

I used to do over 300 pushups per night, running myself to fatigue, and then doing more until fatigue, and more again and again etc. all in the same night, when I was losing weight. (I'd do maybe 50 then fatigue, and force myself to do another 100 that night in the one session... eventually I could just do 300 without a worry [not in one set]).

I built my pecs up enough that they were rock solid and lasted for nearly a year after I stopped doing any form of pushups/exercise at all.

Once I started going to gym they quickly came back, albeit alot smaller, but alot stronger and a far better overall shape.

Really its about working out what's best for you, if you heal quickly on the outside from open wounds (even from deep/large abrasions etc.) then you'll find you'll get increased muscle size rapidly (rapid healing equates to scars, scar tissue is what makes muscles look bigger) and you probably wont have much trouble going to gym every day or getting sore for very long.

Alternating what muscle-groups you workout is very important regardless of what you're trying to accomplish.

We should have a test to see who can get the biggest in a certain amount of time. We'll get photos taken before and after.

Anyone up for the challenge? Count me in.

lol 55 kgs :/

so much harder starting from a slim build and trying to add body mass.

Anyway some minor tips ill pass on :

* Stay dedicated (so important to get your mindstate right) otherwise theres no point
* Eat right, cut out any fast food. Eat Food thats high in Protein, chicken etc.
* Have a set routine, that you can stick to and adjust it as you progress.
* Push yourself when you workout. Hurt = Good
* Rest, your body needs to recover
* Water! drink it

gl

hey stez you seem to know a bit about it, (not being sarcastic), could you tell us what your best idea of a good workout and diet plan would be?

ps

some of you guys should look up fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibres, theres a big diff. you gotta know what your training for.

also realize if you dont let your muscles heal properly, the muscle fibres wont form properly and it can have the reverse affect, so rest is just as important.

over-overloading yourself (ie too much) at the gym will basically give you rice muscles, all show no go.

hahahhaha 3 weeks hahahha.. sorry i had to laugh :(

Also if you do alot of weight training and then stop, you'll gain alot of weight.
Its what the hobits did :)

Anyway some minor tips ill pass on :

* Stay dedicated (so important to get your mindstate right) otherwise theres no point
* Eat right, cut out any fast food. Eat Food thats high in Protein, chicken etc.
* Have a set routine, that you can stick to and adjust it as you progress.
* Push yourself when you workout. Hurt = Good
* Rest, your body needs to recover
* Water! drink it

*Trying to :D going to gym every 2-3 days, but going to start going in between for some light cardio. If im not sore

*Been doing that! so proud of myself! had like a small amount of chococalte in 1.5 weeks! that MUST be a record of somesort (well for me anyway)

* Yep
* Yep

* Rest :D my favourite bit!

* Water! :D 2.5 litres a day now!

ive been at the gym foir 4 months and im seeing some quite noticable results. i was always tall and lanky and now im bulking out slowly but surely :)

i go consistantly 4 times a week for 1.5 hour seessions. i do upper body 1 day, lower the netx. i take protein and createne altho i cant tell if theyve helped or not :\

im not only looking better but im also feeling a hellava lot better!

so anyway....BRING ON SUMMER! :D:D:D

also, i eat so much food its not funny :D

so much harder starting from a slim build and trying to add body mass.

This isn't really true, if you know what you're doing. About half way through last year I weighed 52kg (I'm 5'7" - 172cm). Within 3 months, I got up to 61kg, and VERY little of that gain was fat. I researched nutrition and training for about 3 years prior, then put it into practice. It's not difficult if you know how, it just takes dedication, and money (food is expensive when you're eating 5-6 meals a day!).

i believe if you have the motivation and you really desperatly want to look good.. do some weights.. but mix it in with general fitness.. f*** the muscles for the moment.. just make them look good.. when i first started boxing i went all out for a month and went from 73ish kgs down to 68.. that's a f***load of skipping though.. do some weights too though.. but i'd lose the gut then bulk it up with healthy food.. you need to clean your system out most probably.. i would look it up for you.. the diet it is.. my dad went on it.. it's a 15 day thing.. you eat all this really gay food.. and it flushes all the crap out of your body.. will make you feel alot better therefore you'll want to do more..

in regards to motivation, i get demotivated pretty easily to.. i find a way to get myself "firedup" if you will.. is to think about all the rude arseholes and people who have been a real bitch to me and how bad i'd like to kick their arses :)

or firing up music.

and that's the end of that chapter.

morax+stez=win

muscles are made in the kitchen not in the gym.

you wont get no where without a good diet. also cardio + weights on the same day should b avoided if possible. better to do on day off. also remember u cant gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. one or the other. bulk or cut.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/vkr/sten.jpg

Champion Morax!!

Also plec add me to msn! mattydolan@hotmail.com
and msg me cus trillian doesnt lemme know when people add me.

Get pumping Fireblood :D come with me :D

hahaha
i rox @ gym! i just went up for 17.5 dumbells for chest press.....yay me! */me flexes tiny little muscle*

all a good read. i have been going to the and lifting heavy things for a while now, and i can see results. but im far from an excpert. ive learnt alot here too.

good thread.

Sten, you were originally asking about suppliments too. Before you buy one, learn what they do, and how they work together.

The reason for a suppliment, is simply to give you the protein (or whatever you're supplimenting) that you would normally get from a proper meal. So instead of eating say 6 proper meals a day, you'd eat maybe 4, and have 2 protein shakes, it's simply for convenience (remember to have a serving of carbs with the shakes too, maybe get a protein/carb powder instead of pure protein if you find this difficult). Another thing, watch your protein/carb intake. If you want to build muscle, keep to roughly 2:1 carb:protein intake per meal per day. You'll need the carbs for energy, and the protein to rebuild your body.

Before you take Creatine, again research what it is/does. Creatine aids in protein synthesis, but one of its main pros is that it allows your muscles to store more water (which makes your muscles look bigger and more ripped :D), in turn making them stronger. If you take creatine, you will have to drink a LOT of water (by a lot, think lots and double it), otherwise you'll be dehydrating your muscles at a faster rate than normal (bad). Once you're on creatine, cycle it, 8 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Your body needs a break, and can become immune to the effects if you use it constantly.

I dunno what else to write here at the moment :P do a lot of research into the right training, eating and supplimenting and you'll do fine.

Awesome. Learning lots, I just have put it all to practice now.

What are natural/common examples of carbs and protein?

Oh and let up about the 3 weeks thing. I did not mean that I wanted to be full ripped in 3 weeks, I just want to see a bit of a difference.

I think once I start getting into a full regime, I will put on muscle quickly. I have not done any exercise for the past 3 years besides strenuous sex with my girlfriend, and I am still in reasonable good shape with big arm and leg muscles.

There's a lot of good sources of both protein and carbs, google's your best bet to find lots, but some of the main ones are...

Protein:
Chicken, red meat, fish, eggs, soy beans

Carbs:
Rice, Pasta, Baked Beans, Bread, Fruits

EDIT: I found a cheap way to get lots of protein was to get canned tuna, it's about $1.50 per small can. One of those on some bread, and with some fruit and a glass of milk is 1 meal, pretty cheap... Do that three times a day, and have 2 protein/carb shakes (in no particular order), and for dinner a piece of chicken/red meat with rice/peas/corn and you've got a great, easy, relatively cheap meal plan.

I have read quite a few articles in Ralph and Mens Health...has anyone tried a magazine regime?

Lose the mags. repeat after me. "mags = s***". Some good websites have been mentioned here, check them out.

3 weeks. Is this possible?

Sorry dude, no chance.

But don't let that put you off. My experience last year gained the following. I started quite thinned out back then with no bloody muscle to speak of.

June 2002 - Nov 2002

Deadlift - 35kg - 75kg
Bench - 30kg - 75kg
Squat - 25kg - 50kg

At that point I looked very differnet indeed. After cruising through summer I'm into it again and now...

Deadlift - 120kg
Bench - 90kg
Squat - 80kg

I'm a very average and fairly old shmuck so be encouraged, anyone can do it, even you. Just dont give the game away, think longer term, just 15 crappy months that is all. Oh BTW, the visual results match the numbers, it really is worth it.

Another point of interest is protein/whey suppliments, can anyone suggest a brand product that works?

Protien supps are handy as you need lots of protien and that without the gobs of fat that most "normal" protien sources come with. Diet is obviously critical and mucho protien is the basic foundation. Don't go for the expensive 90% stuff though, the cheap 75% protien gear is ok as the rest is carbs and hey you need carbs in a diet anyhow.

Creatine = best supp eva! Creatine is your friend..:)

Mind you, don't start Creatine untill after three months. Your body is about to learn what "exersize" is and will give you amazing results without it. After 3-4 months when numbers start to flatten out for the first time, get on board with creatine to get those numbers climbing again. If you take creatine now, it will not make any differnece WHAT SO EVER.

Don't worry about drugs untill you've learned the true meaning of "intensity". After at least a year, yeah a year, I mean it, late 2004 you'll know what I'm talking about.

Case in point. Lately after a very average two month stint I got hold of some Andro-stackers (testosterone precursers) and the small gain in available "intensity" have put the numbers into a handy steep climb at the moment. (PB's in all lifts this week w00t!) If I tried this six months ago I would have gained nothing but pissing expensive urine.

I'm almost where I want to be and when I can at long last bench 100kg (I weigh 75) I'll just go to maintainence mode and lose all the supps. So in essence I got to where I wanted to be in just over one short year and I am content.

How much do Steroids cost? I want tablets

A weight lifter mate got me the stackers (yes it's naughty under the counter stuff) $125 - 2 months. It's far from Steroids but fark, Stenezol, HGH and the likes cost the absolute earth, don't even think about it.

good luck, study the s*** out of this subject as there is much to learn. The results are well worth it. And remember, if it was easy, everyone would do it.

When you've done as much reading and tried as many training regemes as I have, you'll realise that you can't just say "do this and do that" to someone.

As i said, read anything and everything u can get your hands on, try different things, and see what works for you. It's easy to say "workout this many times" or "train this for hightwitch fibres" etc, but its not that simple.

The more you learn about bodybuilding, the more you realise that you really know nothing.

However, some fundamentals are the same. Eat well - you can research every little thing about every food, but for the beginner you should just stick to what is obviously healthy.

As for training - it's gotta be intense. Learn about what you should be doing and how often - I'm not going to give u "my" plan, because everyone's is different. No matter what u do though, the key is intensity. You gotta go into the gym and smack those weights, with correct form. Make some noise, start screaming, make an iron grin - whatever it takes to get the most out of your body. Just don't be one of these strappers who go into the gym and lean on benches talking to their mates all day, and do one set then take a 10minute break looking at themselves in the mirror.

And if you want to put on weight, get in and out in under 40minutes and get some food into you.

If you're a beginner you won't need supplements - you'll get fast a good results just from working out and eating.

Let me say again - www.bodybuilding.com is a great site, and has a fantastic forum. Bodybuilders are some of the most intelligent athletes in the world in my opinion. Just don't post anything like you did here, because you'll get flamed and banned in under 5minutes. Just read, read, read.

So where do ya get this Creatine s***? Sounds pretty uber! :D

Creatine is a good supplement. Basically a fundamental of supplementing these days, but u lose a lot of the gains when u go off it.

you can get it at Ada Street, Taringa. About $64 for 1kg which will last a long long time, so it's a good value.

There's a website too. look on google.

www.vitaminzone.com.au has cheap supps too.

But if you talk to a lot of hardcore builders, they'll just tell you to eat eat eat and pump hard. I do recommend a protein blend though, taken 3 times a day.

You gotta ... smack those weights, start screaming, make an iron grin

Hey Stez you remind of the best piece of advice I have ever read. And yes it still applies today.

"LIFT THE f***ING BAR!"

:D

my life as a Union player

17-18 75-85kgs
18-21 85-100kgs
21-25 100-105kgs
25-28 105-107kgs

Thats with 3 weights session a week and 4 rugby traing sessions a week and a run everyday, with a 2 month off season where I did weights 3 times a week and ran 3-4 times a week. I also surfed as much as I could, no drugs, and very few suppliments, just good old fashion eat anything thats not moving, drink beer, and train hard.

As you can see the biggest gains came after a couple of years of hard training.

EDIT: When I was 19, I broke both my collar bones and my leg in a bike accident, and was layed up for 4 months, but suprisingly the muscle mass came back very quickly after recovery.

Yeah it's easier to regain muscle mass you've lost than to build totally new mass.

A weight lifter mate got me the stackers (yes it's naughty under the counter stuff) $125 - 2 months

Since when is an andro stack under the counter? I'm pretty sure it's a common bodybuilding supplement, you tried asking if Universal Fitness have it?

Hahaha Nebu left his account left in :P

^^ That last post was from Morax

Since when is an andro stack under the counter?

dunno, I was simply told it was hard to get because import shipments kept getting confiscated.

If I was being told fibs then cest la' ve'

Well I didn't even bother reading much of this thread...

But I have been doing weights for some time, and have had personel trainers etc to help push me at the gym..

Water intake is very important... drink alot of it while your working out...

Protein supplements such as protein powder do work wonders, but tend to taste like s*** :) - You could get 1 kilo for about $40...

Keeping a good diet, intaking proper foods... less fatty more carbs blah blah, it depends if your going for fitness, mass etc...

Also going every second day is a good strat, gives your time muscles to repair and gets you ready for the next time..

Using a bike/cross trainer before workout works excellently, gets the blood pumping and allows your muscles to be used with ease :) BLOOD CIRCULATION!!!!

It's also part of the mind... not thinking what you can do.. knowing it....

IF you want fitness etc, use low weights high reps..

IF you want mass, use high weights. low reps..

Also having a mate there with you to psuh you even harder is good, so you can get it over and done with, and acheive what you want easier and faster..

Forgot what I was gonna say now...

Ummm, HEHE...

Work hard, sleep hard... eat hard.

i found if i do chin ups and keep my legs straight out (at a 45 degree angle) i get uber abs (well you can see them without flexing) in a very short amount of time (like 10 days).

well there's my 2 cents. go all you little arnie wannabes.

Working out etc just isn't for your body..

It's for your mind also..

Gives you confidence, helps relax you.. helps you sleep etc, can releive stress and get rid of anger etc..

It's good for you :)

Sten: If you want big gains fast, then take a look at a thing called 'Boot Camp'. I haven't seen it persoanlly, but i read about it in the paper a few weeks ago.

It's a Military themed workout class, mixing it up with cardio and weights, with hardcore ex-army dudes barking and screaming at you (for motivation). It runs for 6 weeks (you go every day) and they claim that you can double muscle strength and radically improve cardio fitness and lose lots of weight.

I think it's run through Fitness First, but you don't need to be a member to join up to teh class

Might be worth looking into.

Using a bike/cross trainer before workout works excellently, gets the blood pumping and allows your muscles to be used with ease :) BLOOD CIRCULATION!!!!

Finally someone answered my bloody question :). So I'm doing the right thing by streching and some skipping as part of my warm up before I do weight.

I also do matiral art so I don't really use heavy weights, I use weight that are challenging to me, obviously I have been increasing it gradually so that I can increase my strength, which is why I do weights to supplement my Kung Fu.

Very educational thread thanks for all the inputs guys :)

Mr Opec, where do you go Wing Chuning it, when I was training with Chris in the valley we used to do a few laps at the valley pool first as a warm up before stretching.

Hehe, well to get the blood pumping allows oxygen to be carried faster, which then allows you to work harder etc, which causes ur muscles to be under more strain, there for ripping the fibres more... which gives u bigger gains..

A good site to check out
www.anabolicreview.com

sure its about drugs

but you can learn a s***load there

go to the vbulletin aswell.. :)

mmm....this topic is a good read. LOl 3 weeks. No chance sorry.
*Creatine is probably the best legal supp. you can take but you tend to lift more cause of the water retention so when you go off you will lose your strength.
*Diet is VERY important. Your body must have enough protein to build muscle.
*Steriods would be your only chance at a short term answer. You can not just take Steriods. If you decide to go that way (hope not) please find someone you can trust and, knows what they are doing but you will nearly have to have injectables. As there isnt many kinds available in tablet form and its worse for your body to injest them. Steriods Work differently for every person. So its possible they will do nothing for you(not likely tho). You still have to work hard still tho. I spose it worked well for Arnold :P

Oh well thats my 3 cents time to play the new RA3 :-)

some andro's are illegal, some arent.

There's not really any good ones in australia legally.

You could get pretty hardcore androgens in the USA legally, but now a lot of states has banned them this year i think.

They're pretty nuts for something that is over-the-counter. If u have the right connections u can get them sent over to Aus and if u know what to do, get them in without getting caught.

Not that I've ever done it, I just know about them and how to do it.

And before all u bludgers think they're a miracle worker, they shrink your balls, make your hair fall out, make u sleep all day, kill your sex drive, and give u acne. And if u don't know how to use them properly and what to do when u stop using them, then you can have permanent problems.

Usually only 35+yearolds in the states use them.

Anyone who knows their stuff will tell u that if you're young and eat and train well, that's all you need. And it's true. Look at some of the "natural bodybuilding" competitions. Those guys arent on anything. My mate is going into comps in about 5 weeks - he looks unreal right now. Same training and similar food as me, he just takes it way more seriously. I'll get a pic of him when he's at a comp to show u what a bit of hard yacka can do. And no, he isn't particularly genetically gifted or absolutely rediculously large. He's just worked his ass off for years and got the results.

If you show self-discipline, self respect, dedication blah blah

You don't need drugs.

A cousin of mine took steriods, at his peak he was 105 kgs at the age of 17. All muscle. Went off em and 3 months later he deflated like a balloon and lost 20 kgs. Then he got severely sick (he was throwing up blood), due to steriods and couldn't eat much so he lost a further 10 kgs. Anyway steriods are a short fix, with long term problems.

I did a cycle for 4 months..

Got to 75kg (was 16) Could bench 90kg at the time..

then I just put on weight and crap... now I can bench about 70...

It works, it works really well..

But I suggest you don't turn to drugs..

Correct diet, right frame of mind.. (perhaps some protein powder) or something like that... will do you fine..

I'm going to start going back to the gym every second day as of next week..

Get this weight off and define myself again.

Usually only 35+yearolds ... use them.

Thats me..:) Got me olde zing back too. w00tah!

Mr Opec, where do you go Wing Chuning it, when I was training with Chris in the valley we used to do a few laps at the valley pool first as a warm up before stretching.

I'm doing it in the City, we do warmup and streching as well before we gedding jitt wit it ;). I only skip at home before I do weights that was why I ask the question.