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Topic: Political Thread 2.5 (Because we really haven't made any pro... Page: < 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 11 12 >
PornoPete
Posts: 2955
Location: Melbourne, Victoria


In Venezuela, most businesses are privately owned and for profit, the wage-labor relationship is still in place, and capital accumulation still drives economic activity.


There isn't a single factually correct thing about that sentence. Venezuela is a completely centralised economy. And it's people are starving to death, because someone yet again failed to get socialism right.

Turkey is an example of a theocrat imposing a corrupt theocracy. Not an economic failure.
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7796
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
"Real racism is quiet, it's subtle"

Vash
Posts: 5676
Location:

Venezuela is a completely centralised economy.


Factually incorrect. A major part of its economy is privatized, and therefor, decentralised. Chavez seized various commodity based businesses but not the entire means of production. Tell me how private entities exist in a centralised, Socialist economy?

Any Government that decides to put all its eggs in one basket, that is, public investment mostly on oil, and that price crashes, deserves to be kicked out. It's no hit on Socialism.

By the way, people are starving in Capitalist economies too. In the Philippines, one in three children are malnourished.
infi
Posts: 23931
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Just watching Vice last week on Venezuela. Their Oil company produces one third the oil it did before socialism, and has 3 times the employees.
PornoPete
Posts: 2956
Location: Melbourne, Victoria


Factually incorrect.


Well it isn't.

Chavez seized various commodity based businesses but not the entire means of production.


Yeah by various commodity based businesses you mean all oil and farms. So all he did was centralise energy and food. A tiny insignificant part of any economy I'm sure we can all agree.

It's no hit on Socialism.


Yeah it is Vash. Centralising production is the goal of socialism. You've been confused about this for a long time now. The bits he centralised are now failing catestrophically which also manages to account for the key elements needed to sustain a society (or energy and food).

You're just saying wasn't really socialism again. Micheal Moore, Bernie Sanders and Noam Chomsky all disagree with you sunshine.

As for the Philippines, we've been down this road. The Philippines perform better on any development metric than Venezuela. Because there is some poverty in the Philippines does not make it a valid comparison to a country are literally roaming the hills looking for animals to kill to ward off mass starvation and therefore place capitalism on a similar footing as socialism.
Vash
Posts: 5678
Location:

Spin it how you want PP. It's no surprise you're a fan of Trump. Facts aren't your strong suit.
Fact: Venezuela has a major private industry, and always has. Hence, Not Socialism.

'some' poverty in the Philippines is a massive understatement. Visited recently?
PornoPete
Posts: 2957
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Fact: Venezuela has a major private industry, and always has. Hence, Not Socialism


It really is very funny you accuse people of not being good with facts. You start producing some data Vash. There is no serious question as to whether Venezuela is a socialist country. They straightforwardly implemented totally orthodox Marxist ideas. The vast majority of their GDP is generated through state owned and run enterprise.

I didn't understate poverty in the Philippines vash I said it is more developed and provides for more of its citizens than Venezuela. Again this is uncontroversial.

Quick bring up trump. You can call me alt-right as well. Doesn't mean Venezuela isn't a socialist country whose means of production were centralised and now nobody has enough to eat, like every other time it was tried.
Raven
Posts: 9554
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Both of you,
http://zero.racetime.com.au/wri/really.gif
Nmag
Posts: 889
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

I know you are asking this rhetorically to make whatever completely bizarre talking head point that is coming down the wire from the Rodina, but the USA is a 1st world s***hole



Parts of Lithgow are s***holes.

Parts of Sydney are s***holes

Parts of Chicago are s***holes. Check out this graphic for Chicago.

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http://armored-column.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Screenshot-2017-02-05-22.04.22.png&amp;sp=b3a154552dd875e0e174dbd79012d6b9.

Parts of many places are s***holes.

Most of some places are s***holes.
Vash
Posts: 5680
Location:

Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown, as shown in a clip posted by "Morning Joe." “Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.” He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.” “They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said. “So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.
trillion
Posts: 4356
Location: Ballarat, Victoria
if you need a break from reading along on this thread, there’s an enjoyable interview on Netflix

It’s A Whole New Ball Game Now
fpot
Posts: 26182
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown, as shown in a clip posted by "Morning Joe." “Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.” He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.” “They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said. “So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.
The Art of the Deal lol
fpot
Posts: 26183
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

For anyone a tad confused about the shutdown situation -

https://i.imgur.com/Qa1i1RD.png
infi
Posts: 23940
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The funding bill required 60 Senate votes and the Republicans only have 51, so the Democrats blocked it. That cartoon is plain wrong. A basic search of Google News would have shown that.
Raven
Posts: 9558
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
One could argue the republicans have blocked it by putting in too many s***ty things that those voting against it don't believe are in the best interests of the people.

You know, like elected representatives are supposed to do.
infi
Posts: 23941
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

the republicans have blocked it by putting in too many s***ty things


it was blocked because the Dems wanted to put in DACA amnesty for children of illegal arrivals. This is something which until very recently the Dems have never supported. The US Democrats have become an extreme left-wing parody of a political party.
Raven
Posts: 9560
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
How the f*** is allowing kids who have no control over their parents actions to have access to medical services 'extreme left-wing'? I'd have just called denying healthcare access to kids 'extreme right-wing' but let's be honest, it has nothing to do with left or right wing and mostly whether or not you're a complete c***.
infi
Posts: 23942
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

simple, they are illegal immigrants. should the child of someone who received stolen goods be allowed to keep the stolen goods? it corrupts the process followed by legal immigrants. or don't countries control their borders anymore?

they should all be sent home and try again with the right papers. enter mexico illegally and you will go to jail.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39430
Location: Other International

should the child of someone who received stolen goods be allowed to keep the stolen goods?
Do they need them to stay alive?
infi
Posts: 23943
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Do they need them to stay alive?


that is a false argument. the same thing could be argued about a tourist who requires health care (they pay for it). illegal immigrants cannot be conferred the rights of legal immigrants and residents otherwise what is the point of following any immigration law?

Obama contravened the Constitution and existing immigration law to allow the DACA exemption. That is why Congress must now make a deal.

I am so thankful we have Peter Dutton protecting Australia's borders!
fpot
Posts: 26184
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

simple, they are illegal immigrants. should the child of someone who received stolen goods be allowed to keep the stolen goods? it corrupts the process followed by legal immigrants. or don't countries control their borders anymore?
mmmm, that's one yummy hot take you got right there.

I follow a few twitters which are human focal points of the army of Russian twitter bots that are out there. The Trump is winning crew are pretty much relying on wholesale conspiracy theories now. Hilary Russian collusion, Obama placed wiretaps, a coordinated attack by news outlets to make Trump look bad when he is actually good etc etc. I'm guessing that's pretty much where you're at infi?

that is a false argument.
No it's not. You just don't want to play because it puts you in a position where you'll have to say well those children will just have to die to Make America Great Again and you're too much of a slippery little chicken s*** to own up to it.
infi
Posts: 23944
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

given the latest news from Washington is that the outcome of the Clinton email scandal was leaked in advance and that House Intelligence Committee members are urging the release of a memo detailing abuse of FISA warrants against the Trump transition team, who knows how smelly the swamp is there.

Trump is causing the Deep State and Washington hangers-on to scurry around like cockroaches. It is a pure joy to watch. The best show on TV.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39431
Location: Other International

QUICK SAY SOMETHING ABOUT CLINTON

https://i.imgur.com/0gL9Cdz.gif
infi
Posts: 23945
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Is that just a weak joke or do you actually not care/disbelieve the Clinton campaign's alleged ties to Russia Fake dossier, FUSION GPS, FISA abuse?

No it's not. You just don't want to play because it puts you in a position where you'll have to say well those children will just have to die to Make America Great Again and you're too much of a slippery little chicken s*** to own up to it.


It is false. Just because you unlawfully took something, it doesn't mean you get to keep it. Regardless the consequences. And yes if they were to have a life threatening condition their home country can pay for it.

It confounds me that the offspring of people who just show up illegally think they can abracadabra go full legit. It is the height off mental gymnastics that only screaming liberals can achieve.
fpot
Posts: 26185
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Hey guys have you seen this video called 'Loose Change'? It really makes you think.

edit:

It confounds me that the offspring of people who just show up illegally think they can abracadabra go full legit
They must be punished for their terrible crime of being born.
infi
Posts: 23946
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

A full blown Federal investigation initiated by the Justice Department tries to find a Trump Russian collusion and finds absolutely NOTHING - yet MSM and other Trump Derangement Syndrome sufferers persist.

Democratic Party gets caught with an actual dossier of fake news produced by a Russian smear company, which is linked to requests for illegal FISA warrants - and that is a wild conspiracy.

The mind boggles at the stuff people are willing to look past. The ridiculing comments such a fpot's are amazingly typical of the entire dismissive liberal media class. Fpot is coming along nicely.

They must be punished for their terrible crime of being born.


Not getting something you are not legally entitled to is not punishment. Punishment implies a worse off position - they never had the entitlement.
fpot
Posts: 26186
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Trump Derangement Syndrome. Yep I've seen the twitter bots pumping that one pretty hard.

Like I said, Trumpers are all in full blown conspiracy land at this point. Exactly and I mean exactly like 9/11 truthers. There's no reasoning people out of positions they haven't reasoned themselves into. The only question is when all of this bulls*** is finally over will you drop the bag or continue holding onto it.
Vash
Posts: 5681
Location:

The mind boggles at the stuff people are willing to look past


The feeling is certainly mutual with what people like you look past in regards to Trump.
PornoPete
Posts: 2959
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

What does DACA have to do with healthcare? DACA is an immigration policy based on the executive branches discretion to enforce laws in the most effective manner.

Its constitutional basis, which is dubious at best, is grounded solely on the idea children immigrants are less of a priority to deal with than adults.

That's the whole policy.


It has literally nothing to do with healthcare.

Fpot, what a funny little fellow. We are a year into the investigation into Russia and we have a guy pleading guilty to lying to the fbi about a drunken conversation about Russia in London.

Russian collusion did not happen.

But infi is the 9/11 truther.

So how about trump's doctor who was also Obama's doctor saying trump has shown no signs of mental instability.

I was right again. Form an orderly queue to apologize gents.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39432
Location: Other International

Regardless the consequences.
What if the consequences were that it actually cost MORE taxpayer dollars to round up all these people and then send them back?! Or are you just drawing an ideological line in the sand here and no matter what it costs they must be gone?
fpot
Posts: 26187
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

There's already precedent for that one with infi's unwavering support of offshore detention. Way more expensive than resettlement on the mainland but he gets to watch the browns suffer so it's worth it.

What's the difference between people with guns rounding people up and murdering them compared with people in suits signing pieces of paper and murdering them? The second a person dies because they've been denied what's considered a basic human right in every western civilisation in the world on the basis of their skin colour and/or country of origin how does the Trump administration not become a murderous regime? People are sitting around and going oh everything is okay - there are no death camps or summary executions. It's because there doesn't need to be anymore. It can all be done quietly and invisibly through legislative means. Best of all proponents can point at it and say hey, it's all good, because it's all completely legal.
infi
Posts: 23947
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

What if the consequences were that it actually cost MORE taxpayer dollars to round up all these people and then send them back?! Or are you just drawing an ideological line in the sand here and no matter what it costs they must be gone?


Well do we (they) have a border and immigration law, or is it just a sometimes kinda thing?

The second a person dies because they've been denied what's considered a basic human right in every western civilisation in the world on the basis of their skin colour and/or country of origin how does the Trump administration not become a murderous regime?


there are grouphugs, and then there are laws. it sounds like you are suggesting the US taxpayer pays healthcare for all regardless of legality or origin. maybe they should pay healthcare costs to mexico just to stop them coming over the border? it really is absurd listening to this inconsistent garbage. The laws are passed by Congress. Apply them to everyone. Equally. Free tissues for all affected.
fpot
Posts: 26188
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

* N U K E D *

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PornoPete
Posts: 2960
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

So edgy! Watch as infi brazenly defends the law when it's helping him kill non-whites, but whinges like a little piss baby when it makes his life hard running his dad's business because he's a s*** manager and a complete dumb f***.


I think by "kill non-whites" you mean deport people to their country of origin.

These people aren't claiming refugee status, they are straightforward illegal immigrants.

And for the record, the Republicans have offered continued immunity so long as they don't then get to sponsor their families to come to the US ie ending chain migration. It's a sensible compromise. That was rejected.

These hysterical responses to even the most mundane acts of law enforcement are more than a little tedious. What's enjoyable, is you don't seem to be aware of how badly it's damaging your professed cause.

Hey trog what level of hysterical stupidity can fpot and friends get to before you'll display this reasoned moderation we've heard so much about and actually call fpot on his bulls***?
Nmag
Posts: 890
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Who brings up colour and race? It's about nations and culture. If GroupX makes the argument be about colour, then GroupX is clearly drawing the correlation between colour and nation/culture. That is truly racist.

s***hole countries have white people too. These things are not about race or colour.

Also, Greens/Labor want more low-skilled migrants a year to boost population, more welfare hand-outs, less taxes for all, more public services, better pay and conditions for public servants, more funding for government employee run news outlets, more expensive (yet environmentally friendly) purchasing options, lower cost of living, more pensions, more free health car, AND more affordable housing at the same time. Apply logic to those expectations and then give to thought to "I wonder how their household budget works"... "Do they even have a budget?" and "Who do they blame when their life does not meet up to their expectations?"

It's pretty hard to have all these things, but they do sound very nice to offer them to the voters. Unfortunately this kind of stuff is financially unsustainable.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/91/d3/8b/91d38beee922a9106b6acc2d531e2fea--champagne-taste-on-a-beer-budget-quote-champagne-quotes.jpg
paveway
Posts: 21477
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Hey trog what level of hysterical stupidity can fpot and friends get to before you'll display this reasoned moderation we've heard so much about and actually call fpot on his bulls***?


i was there a few posts ago
infi
Posts: 23948
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

identity politics talks ceaselessly about race and colour. You will see that every single one of fpot's posts is obsessed with race.

I mentioned equal application of the law for all which fpot found offensive. So he resorted to the sophistry of racism. Identity politicians hate equal treatment under the law, as they are all about pandering to special interests which can further their voting bloc. Every identity politics argument is laced with emotionally charged terms and slurs against the opponent - because when subject to scrutiny they just don't hold up - however if you don't agree, be prepared to be called: bigot, racist, homophobe, transphobe, Islamaphobe, sexist etc etc.
Nmag
Posts: 891
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

If your're after A-political moderation here you wont find it. The obsession by a few small minds over what Trump eats for breakfast each day is an indication of the types of propaganda people subscribe too, and the culture that is fostered.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39433
Location: Other International

Well do we (they) have a border and immigration law, or is it just a sometimes kinda thing?
Well that's what I was saying - in the US it has clearly all been done with a nod and wink for several decades. Too many institutions are too dependent on the availability of cheap Mexican labour (amongst other things) for there to have ever been a serious push back about it. Of course part of the problem is their hilariously woeful cash based economy which is responsible for so much of this labour law evasion - if the US wanted to get serious about enforcing any of the immigration laws (that they have always had) they could probably solve it in a minute by making their electronic payments system not be a complete joke and even half-assedly enforcing some of their tax laws so it's even /slightly/ hard for businesses and citizens to employ illegal labour.

I'm sure we've discussed this issue before and IIRC we actually agreed that stamping out the demand for illegal labour would have a dramatic effect on the number of "illegally" present economic immigrants, right?

Anyway I just see that issue as totally tangential to that of whether kids/young adults who magically appeared in the US and have spent a big chunk of their lives growing up there because of the above lax systems should be suddenly and dramatically ripped away from everything they know and dumped into what is to them probably a foreign (and possibly hostile) environment, when (in almost all cases) they've passed the most extensive tests ever - living in the country as a law abiding and productive citizen. For me it's totally easy to say "maybe some of these people should be allowed to stay" and a hardline attitude of "they all must leave regardless of any circumstance, including cost, humanitarian, whatever" seems unreasonable.

To use your analogy, if a parent steals some bread and feeds it to their starving kids, I don't think the bread should be forcibly taken away until we can make sure they're not going to literally die. But someone in my family tree was a convict because they apparently stole a loaf of bread, so I probably am not the best person to ask.

I find it staggeringly hard to believe that rounding up and exporting all these people combined with the cost of a government shutdown and all the time wasted by the associated blathering of the (generally moronic ) American aristocracy.

Anyway I'm trying to spend less time caring about what the Americans do to each other and (now I'm back) more time focusing on how we can improve Australia.
infi
Posts: 23949
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

And that is why the Art of the Deal will come into play.

The ultimate deal that will be cut - the only deal that will actually work - is amnesty for the existing children of illegals in exchange for terminating DACA, chain migration and fully funding the wall. But there is a process that must be played out, and far from being critical of the shutdown, it was a necessary part of a brinksmanship that is well established now.

You don't need to worry about Australia so much as we have Peter Dutton protecting us day and night - he's like Batman.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39434
Location: Other International

it was a necessary part of a brinksmanship that is well established now.
Or, it's just his dumb strategy to pretend he's always winning and everything is part of his plan. Scott Adams goes on about it all the time. It's old and tired and seeing people pretend it's him actually getting stuff done is just getting wearying now (whereas before it was lightly entertaining mixed with a little "no sane person would do that and get away with it").

It's kind of tempting to start acting like this, right up until the point where you realise it would make you a lying sociopath and unless you have millions of dollars and can surround yourself with yesmen and sycophants all trying to get a piece of you, people would call you on that bulls*** more or less immediately.

A government shutdown is a hugely wasteful and expensive operation (I keep seeing photos of buildings with posters like "this federal facility is closed because of the government shutdown please try again later"); if this is his method for getting stuff done it is just the broken window fallacy in living colour.

(I learned about US budget reconciliation yesterday - I say "learned" but it was randomly mentioned on Twitter and I did a half-assed read about it. But basically the reason why the government is stopped is because they can't pass a budget. The reason they can't pass this budget is because Trump used the one-use-per-year Budget Reconciliation feature (allowing them to pass legislation with only 50 votes instead of the usual 60) to pass his tax cut bill.)

You don't need to worry about Australia so much as we have Peter Dutton protecting us day and night - he's like Batman.
Batman mostly operates at night... so that's not really like Batman. I'm still playing catchup to Australian politics so I'll concede that might be the only difference though.
PornoPete
Posts: 2961
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

For me it's totally easy to say "maybe some of these people should be allowed to stay" and a hardline attitude of "they all must leave regardless of any circumstance, including cost, humanitarian, whatever" seems unreasonable.


This is not the position is it though.

Republican voters consistenly poll in favour of an amnesty in favour of those already in the US.

The concern is about stopping the issue from continuing, which will mean hard choices.

It's also about the associated chain migration.

It is perfectly reasonable to say that while these kids shouldn't be expelled for something that is no fault of their own, it is equally the case they don't deserve their entire extended family to stay in the US.

That's a perfect storm of perverse incentives for abuse.

Offers to the democrats have been made along these lines which are representative of mainstream American political thought and (to make this crystal clear) perfectly humain.


It is only dreary drama queens like fpot who contest this.

So point scored old boy.
PornoPete
Posts: 2962
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Chuck Schumer is backing down.

So remember how ending DACA would definitely kill babies.

Chuck Schumer is talking about killing babies.

See fpot/trog. This is why you being dumb c***s ultimately fails.

Nobody buys the hyperpartisonship.
Get ready to keep looking the fool, Russia will come to nothing, against trump
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7800
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Dude no need for the seeunexttuesday
infi
Posts: 23950
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Or, it's just his dumb strategy to pretend he's always winning and everything is part of his plan. Scott Adams goes on about it all the time. It's old and tired and seeing people pretend it's him actually getting stuff done is just getting wearying now (whereas before it was lightly entertaining mixed with a little "no sane person would do that and get away with it").


So the 13 day Obama shutdown was....

The reason they can't pass this budget is because Trump used the one-use-per-year Budget Reconciliation feature (allowing them to pass legislation with only 50 votes instead of the usual 60) to pass his tax cut bill


the reason they can't pass the budget is because this deadline is being levered for an unrelated political issue, just like the Obama shutdown, where the Dems know they can make hay on a 60 vote threshold. That's politics, that's how s*** gets done, the same s*** gets pulled here in Oz. This is not astonishing, it is normal political process. Politics is an extremely inefficient and wasteful business.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39435
Location: Other International

So the 13 day Obama shutdown was....
... well I guess not really relevant to a conversation about whether it's OK to cast children into the wilderness for the sins of their parents? The regular failures of the American political system come as no surprise to me. (I was reminded the other day that if this happened in Westminster system it would be grounds for a new election!!)

You've making the ideological point that all these people should be removed from the US. But you're saying that because it's part of T's master plan, it's OK for them to negotiate on this topic and use it as leverage for some other stuff (perhaps because it's a necessary side effect of America's terribly broken two party democracy where every decision comes down to a coin flip of one or two politicians).

I guess I'm confused because you basically reject the idea that these people should be allowed to stay when confronted with my (imo reasonable) suggestions that a) if they're kicked out of the country they may die and/or b) it might be cheaper (and even profitable) to allow them to stay because the cost of rounding them up and shipping them home is non-trivial. But now it sounds like you're OK with it if it's just part of some master Arty Deal that gets done.

So I'm struggling to find the line between what I think is your ideology about illegal immigrants ("they should all be sent home", "Regardless the consequences"), and what I guess might just be considered fatalism at the reality that hardline ideologies like that are basically incompatible with the real world and compromise must be made.

So - what compromise would /you/ willing to accept to let them stay in the US (I guess we'll find out what Trumps is next week or whenever)? This will be useful information when the topic of exporting children from Australia comes up (as it inevitably will, with a bootlick like Dutton "keeping us safe") so we might be able to avoid this conversation next time.
infi
Posts: 23951
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Me, personally, I would rather they all leave. Brokering deals sends a signal that if you break the immigration law there is a high likelihood you will be granted amnesty in the future. Dems voted for the immigration laws and now they are blocking their application.... It is a positive feedback loop.

But politics is the art of the possible and if the perfect policy cannot be crafted then the next best imperfect policy must be adopted. It is delusional to stick to a policy position which simply will not be passed by congress.

I said just above, the compromise is to allow the amnesty, cut off chain migration, build the wall, and grant no further amnesties, deport anyone in the country illegally, apply the laws Democrats have already passed. (And cut off federal funding to sanctuary citiies). s***, if a city in Australia decided to ignore federal law, all hell would break loose.

This will be useful information when the topic of exporting children from Australia comes up


We don't need to cut deals here because Australians are firmly on board with secure borders.
PornoPete
Posts: 2963
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Dude no need for the seeunexttuesday


No that's true I should b nicer. But I think when they are alternately accusing infi of wanting to deport children on inflexible principle or murder children of colour through deportation (that was awesome fpot is really passionate about children of colour he cares soooo much that if you disagree with his idiotically simple world view he'll tell you you must want to murder children), the civil conversation boat has already sailed.

You don't get to characterise people as flat out evil and then get ruffled when you get called a c***
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39436
Location: Other International

Gotcha. Well I personally don't think any of those things will make as much difference (I can't imagine any scenario in which the wall is going to get approved, or if construction will start if it does, or if it will get finished if it gets started, or that even if it gets through all these milestones, if will make the slightest difference to illegal immigration in the US) as putting even a half-assed effort into enforcing the basic laws they have now about restricting immigrant labour.
We don't need to cut deals here because Australians are firmly on board with secure borders.
yeh probably why the topic has never come up before here
paveway
Posts: 21478
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

You've making the ideological point that all these people should be removed from the US. But you're saying that because it's part of T's master plan, it's OK for them to negotiate on this topic and use it as leverage for some other stuff (perhaps because it's a necessary side effect of America's terribly broken two party democracy where every decision comes down to a coin flip of one or two politicians).

I guess I'm confused because you basically reject the idea that these people should be allowed to stay when confronted with my (imo reasonable) suggestions that a) if they're kicked out of the country they may die and/or b) it might be cheaper (and even profitable) to allow them to stay because the cost of rounding them up and shipping them home is non-trivial. But now it sounds like you're OK with it if it's just part of some master Arty Deal that gets done.

So I'm struggling to find the line between what I think is your ideology about illegal immigrants ("they should all be sent home", "Regardless the consequences"), and what I guess might just be considered fatalism at the reality that hardline ideologies like that are basically incompatible with the real world and compromise must be made.

So - what compromise would /you/ willing to accept to let them stay in the US (I guess we'll find out what Trumps is next week or whenever)? This will be useful information when the topic of exporting children from Australia comes up (as it inevitably will, with a bootlick like Dutton "keeping us safe") so we might be able to avoid this conversation next time.


trog that whole post was about kicking people out of the country

but as already posted the agreement is that no one currently in the US under the law as it is would be kicked out.........

did you skip a couple of posts or something? or am i completely missing something
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39437
Location: Other International

did you skip a couple of posts or something? or am i completely missing something
I might have - I only entered the conversation to ask if infi thought it was OK to kick people out if they would basically die as a result, with follow-up of what if it was cheaper to let them stay.
but as already posted the agreement is that no one currently in the US under the law as it is would be kicked out.........
do you mean the agreement in the US? as I understand it the agreement has not yet been made, it's just been postponed a week or two, right?
PornoPete
Posts: 2964
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I might have - I only entered the conversation to ask if infi thought it was OK to kick people out if they would basically die as a result, with follow-up of what if it was cheaper to let them stay.

What the actual f***?

I just thought I'd drop by and ask if you are you ok with killing babies just because?

Meanwhile on earth
paveway
Posts: 21479
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Trog you are right it hasn't been passed yet but that is where it stands at the moment.

I just thought I'd drop by and ask if you are you ok with killing babies just because?


To be fair infi's reply wasn't no.... to put it politely.

But this is why we have 2 sides of politics, despite the extremism from both sides the middle ground makes the most sense usually.

And on the bombshell we could pretty much /thread
PornoPete
Posts: 2965
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I'm not going to put words in infis mouth, but the idea that repealing DACA is likely to kill anyone is a ridiculous hysterical point of view.

The hysterics are also an easy game to play. Illegal migration across the Mexican border is run by the Cartels. Something insane like 7 in 10 women who make the crossing get raped.

By wanting DACA to remain in place I guess trog must want those women of colour to get raped and live in thrall to violent criminal organisations.

If he doesn't refute being called outright evil, he is. This line of reasoning gets dumped on infi in basically every discussion but he is the one who gets labelled the cognitive dissonant.
infi
Posts: 23952
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I only entered the conversation to ask if infi thought it was OK to kick people out if they would basically die as a result,


it is such a terrible lame ploy to suggest that mass death would result in mexicans having to live in.... mexico. what a porous weak argument. there are plenty of mexicans alive in mexico last i checked.

the bottom line is Democrats hang their hat on mexican voters and so desire as many mexican voters as possible in america. This is how extreme left politics works. I am so curious of the mental gymnastics left wing radicals use to justify their unknowningly self-destrucitve behaviours I have just started reading Rules for Radicals. The revolution will be televised live.

We are lucky (to a degree) in Australia that the ALP has a right wing and thus knows if it pandered to economic migrants and people smugglers they would be destroyed at the ballot box.

Question for Trog (anyone): should the border just be open for Mexicans? Should any person need a visa to come to America, or just jump on the food stamps, dole queue, free healthcare and education no questions asked?

If he doesn't refute being called outright evil, he is. This line of reasoning gets dumped on infi in basically every discussion but he is the one who gets labelled the cognitive dissonant.

A literal demonstration of cognitive dissonance is to vote for immigration controls and then to shut down the govt when they are actually enforced.
Vash
Posts: 5682
Location:

This is how extreme left politics works


Actually thats how all politics works.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39439
Location: Other International

it is such a terrible lame ploy to suggest that mass death would result in mexicans having to live in.... mexico. what a porous weak argument.
maybe, but it's not the one I made - as I said, I was just trying to plumb the depths of your opposition
Question for Trog (anyone): should the border just be open for Mexicans? Should any person need a visa to come to America, or just jump on the food stamps, dole queue, free healthcare and education no questions asked?
Well I think the border basically has been "just open" for Mexicans for decades (per above comments); noone has ever given a real s*** about closing it because a non-trivial number of people and businesses depend on it (and really I suspect most people does it make that much difference? Is California suffering because of all of the illegal Mexicans are there?! Maybe the more illegal Mexicans in your state the more prosperous it is?!?!)

I don't think anyone thinks the border should just be open for anyone and it certainly is not the majority position of "The Lefts"
infi
Posts: 23953
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Is California suffering because of all of the illegal Mexicans are there?! Maybe the more illegal Mexicans in your state the more prosperous it is?!?!)


it ranks 43rd in America for fiscal position so... yeah....

a basic google search

california fiscal position mlooks grim

California 3rd worst state for business

i was researching a future holiday to to the States. California has an 18% accommodation tax! this blew my mind. they have all these taxes and silicon valley and their budget is on life support.

Well I think the border basically has been "just open" for Mexicans for decades (per above comments); noone has ever given a real s*** about closing it because a non-trivial number of people and businesses depend on it (and really I suspect most people does it make that much difference?


it hasn't been "just open". The border hasn't been physically secure. it is illegal to enter America without a visa, just like it is illegal to enter someone's home even if they have the door open. The illegals do not have rights of citizens.... but now they do want rights of citizens. The businesses "depend" on cheap labor because they are used to it. A tiler will use cheap same quality tiles and when they stop being available he will go to the dearer same quality tile. If illegal labor dried up life would go on, and the US govt would collect more taxes.

Actually thats how all politics works.


encouraging illegal immigration and pushing for amnesty to grow your voter base.... right.....
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39440
Location: Other International

i was researching a future holiday to to the States. California has an 18% accommodation tax! this blew my mind. they have all these taxes and silicon valley and their budget is on life support.
they're a bunch of green hippy socialists that like paying taxes - you'll love it in California. Don't step in the human s*** on the sidewalks.

Your stats are interesting but without noting that they also have the highest GDP and are the biggest state economy it seems a bit one sided? (I was interested to see the 2nd biggest is Texas, which I didn't know - the state with the 2nd highest number of illegal Mexican immigrants! :)
The businesses "depend" on cheap labor because they are used to it
they are used to it because the fines and penalties for employing illegals in a business or personal environment are nowhere at all near harsh enough to dissuade the activity. This is just the American Way. If they were serious about it, they'd [... etc, I've already said this and you've chosen to deliberately ignore or misinterpret it a bunch of times because I guess you can't bear to agree with me on any point even when it's aligned with your motives]
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39441
Location: Other International

Side question: how do you feel about anchor babies? I actually know a few people (not Mexicans) who went to the US specifically to get their kids US citizenship for various reasons.
infi
Posts: 23954
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Forbes

You may not be aware that the mere birth of a child in North America does not guarantee the child nor their parents the right to live in the United States or Canada, at least not until the child reaches the age of majority. Put another way, the family can be and often is removed from the U.S. or Canada, even if they have a native born child, because they do not have lawful status in the country. Some time in the future, once the child becomes an adult, they will be able to return to the U.S. or Canada, but that is down the road. It does not prevent deportation now.


it would be a drop in the ocean. and a constitutional quirk. mostly if the adults can't get naturalization why would they bother? to give their baby a better life in many years time? that's very noble.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39442
Location: Other International

to give their baby a better life in many years time? that's very noble.
is it? it seems like a totally banal thing to do - if you can afford to have your kid in the US, just fly over and get your kid citizenship so they have the option of easily returning later
infi
Posts: 23955
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

it is a constitutional quirk so not much can be done about it.
PornoPete
Posts: 2966
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

maybe, but it's not the one I made - as I said, I was just trying to plumb the depths of your opposition


I'm not saying it's the definite outcome I just want to know if my retarded characterisation will get purchase with you because I'm not saying if want something done about DACA you might be an evil c***.

So troggy must want all those women to raped and sold into sexual slavery. It's not a definite outcome but by leaving the incentives the way they are it is happening.

I'm just trying to figure out the depth of trogs apathey to people of colour.
So tell us trog why do you like sex slaves so much?
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39443
Location: Other International

it is a constitutional quirk so not much can be done about it.
here's hoping!
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39444
Location: Other International

Bill Gates proposes just handing out Australian citizenship to "top graduates" from Aussie universities!@#
PornoPete
Posts: 2967
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Oh you mean a merits based immigration system like Trump is offering.

Who knew bill was a member of the alt-right
infi
Posts: 23956
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

it's also what Australia does.
Vash
Posts: 5683
Location:

Oh you mean a merits based immigration system like Trump is offering.

Who knew bill was a member of the alt-right


Hah you're just screaming for attention aren't you
PornoPete
Posts: 2968
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Ok captain Marxism.
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7801
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
What a backward country we are.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/the-economy/teslas-are-going-to-get-cheaper-but-not-because-of-the-government-20180123-p4yys6.html

trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39445
Location: Other International

There was a really terrible article s***ting on electric cars in the Australian the other day; I meant to photo it and post it but it has found its rightful place in the bin
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7803
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Triple MMM hottest 100 played this:



TripleM > TripleJ
fpot
Posts: 26189
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

One thing I do when I have no fear of being investigated and am feeling absolutely tip-top innocent is to order the firing of the person in charge of investigating me twice.
Vash
Posts: 5684
Location:

One thing I do when I have no fear of being investigated and am feeling absolutely tip-top innocent is to order the firing of the person in charge of investigating me twice.


hahah
hardware
Posts: 11752
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
TripleM > TripleJ
Apart from the news, this has always been the case.
Triple J is for animals.
PornoPete
Posts: 2969
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

One thing I do when I have no fear of being investigated and am feeling absolutely tip-top innocent is to order the firing of the person in charge of investigating me twice.


If everything I'd ever said about Trump has proven to be wrong, I'd probably stop while I'm 100km behind the 8 ball.

Probably look for someone other than phooks but get ready to blow some doe on mental health fpot. I just want you to be mentally prepared for when Trump isn't the devil.
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7804
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I think everyone here should listen to this podcast about an Aussie IT entrepreneur's thoughts on our commodities and property whore economy.

Spook
Posts: 40968
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
triple M? f*** no id rather be deaf.

sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7805
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Still better than Triple J. Triple J has gone to hell.

I listen to 4zzz and DoubleJJ when driving now.
fpot
Posts: 26190
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

I saw Kendrick Lamar song got #1 on hottest 100. Had never heard of it so listened to it and it's really bad. However I am really uncool when it comes to my musical taste so it's probably actually good.
Viper119
Posts: 3351
Location: Other International


I saw that Matt Barrie article, seems to be pretty revealing and a hard pill to swallow.

Here's the link: https://medium.com/@matt_11659/matt-barrie-australias-economy-is-a-house-of-cards-6877adb3fb2f

I'd be interested in hearing peoples thoughts on that article ^^.


sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7807
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
My thoughts are he's dead right.
Viper119
Posts: 3352
Location: Other International

To a different topic, this was quite the debate!

Channel 4 News’ full, fiery interview with clinical psychologist and professor Jordan B Peterson, whose views on gender have amassed great controversy - and a huge online following.

infi
Posts: 23957
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I punted on Kendrick Lamar back in December to win. It's a catchy song but who even listens to JJJ?

That was a very long and detailed article about the Australian economy but I don't think it is as simple as "we're all doomed". Economic activity is an essential part of human interaction and regardless of the contraction by the monetary economy, this county still enjoys a specific level of public infrastructure, private infrastructure (office buildings and mine sites), natural resources and human capital (intelligence, creativity). All of these items have inherent value which can be immediately sold independent of currency liquidity - it is simply the prices that change.

There will be a large disruption in the process - given the high leverage globally there could be a large shift of further wealth to the 1‰ as happened during the Great depression and the GFC. Banks trigger defaults and repossess assets at prices then enjoy asset growth as the economy recovers.

I am looking at going long the Swiss Franc and gold as a hedge against the enormous run of the Dow and the massive US deficits. Assets will suffer during any period of rapid dele verging but I just can't see another bout of quantitative easing having any impact. Real assets still will carry value and be a stable store of wealth in the long term if you can hold them free of debt.

Ease of money was not the issue during the aftermath of GFC, it was no one wanted to borrow.

Jordan Peterson destroyed that silly interviewer. She came across as everything she despised: emotional, irrational and superficial.
Rukh
Posts: 1118
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
So you're saying...so you're saying...so you're saying..

So you're saying you're a lobster?
PornoPete
Posts: 2970
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

The response by channel 4 has been pretty ordinary.

she was inundated with death threats to the point she needed personal security but no one has produced the death threats. Wasn't referred to the police either.

I have a suspicion the 'death threats' were merely pointing out she had a train wreck of an interview while being a woman.

This pretty well sums up what happened

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUZdOlQW0AEVvZM.jpg:large
infi
Posts: 23959
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I had bacon and eggs for lunch.
Vash
Posts: 5685
Location:

JP: ..."They[Women] are doing fine in medicine. In fact, there are far more female physicians than male physicians. There are lots of disciplines that are absolutely dominated by women. Many, Many disciplines. And they're doing great!" According to the Kaiser Foundation, based on current available data on licensed and practicing physicians, the distribution of physicians in the US is thus: Women - 326, 902 Men - 623, 054


Just another Milo looking for easy publicity, and pulling facts out of his ass. If he's referring to the UK, it's still more men than women.
PornoPete
Posts: 2971
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Litterally two posts into that reddit thread stats start popping up which vindicate his statement.

In the UK medical graduates skew two thirds in favour of females and given he is a university professor that's likely what he was taking about.

Depending on the specialisation, it skews even further. Pediatrictians skew to nearly 75%
source

However the deeper point being that women are institutionally prevented from practicing medicine is deranged and pointing to a questionably faulty stat doesn't change that.

You really are the least capable reader of anything I've ever encountered.
Vash
Posts: 5686
Location:

likely what he was taking about.


Oh so now you're putting words in his mouth, weren't you just teasing the interviewer for doing the same?

there are *far* more female physicians than male physicians.


Just a reminder of what he said. Now if he said there are far more Pediatricians, he wouldn't be pulling facts out of his ass.
infi
Posts: 23960
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

the underlying premise is some notion of entrenched inequality. and it's just untrue. he explained elsewhere in the interview that inequality of outcome is a result of the demands of child rearing, the individual choices of mothers and the role of motherhood in an effective society. if a woman wants to be a doctor, they can be a doctor.
PornoPete
Posts: 2972
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Let me take a guess at how you found that post vash.

You googled "Jordan Peterson racist" and copied and pasted the first thing you saw.

Here is the difference between me and what the interviewer did and the d******* who posted on Reddit.

In an argument, you give your opponent the best reading of their words. This principle is foundational in philosophy.

The interviewer in the otherhand conducted strawman after strawman.

If there are stats which vindicate his view (and there are) a good debater assumes those are the stats he is referring to.

See how you skipped straight over the contextual point. Just like the interviewer and the idiot who posted on Reddit.

If women are institutionally prevented from practicing medicine why are women a majority of graduates? <- if you don't have something meaningful to say about this just shut up.
Vash
Posts: 5687
Location:


Nice dodge as usual PP.

If women are institutionally prevented from practicing medicine why are women a majority of graduates


They're graduates. Then why aren't the majority Physicians?

Today, women are typically the dominant group within medical schools and yet remain under-represented in formal leadership positions and particular speciality areas. Although today there is greater female participation in medical roles, it still appears that women are hitting the glass ceiling.
https://theconversation.com/female-doctors-in-australia-are-hitting-glass-ceilings-why-51325

Motherhood is surely why women are under represented in leadership roles and these prominent professions. And if there is an all woman board of members, or of a political party, they're all going to be feminist nazis. /s


Spook
Posts: 40969
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I saw Kendrick Lamar song got #1 on hottest 100. Had never heard of it so listened to it and it's really bad. However I am really uncool when it comes to my musical taste so it's probably actually good.


you are actually the worst at music of erryone in the world.
PornoPete
Posts: 2973
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

The refusal to acknowledge there are stats which vindicate Peterson is the dodge vash.

Graduates are the first step in a career. If they are institutionally oppressed how are they getting in?

Here is the thing vash.

A statistical imbalance is not evidence that the imbalance is produced through oppression. It's just an imbalance, however a majority imbalance in favour the supposed oppressed group should be cause for a raised eyebrow. If women were institutionally prevented from entering medicine you'd expect to see 100% of doctors being male. It isn't difficult to oppress. You just draft laws saying no women allowed.

Today, women are typically the dominant group within medical schools and yet remain under-represented in formal leadership positions and particular speciality areas.


Brilliant. You concede my point in a rebuttal. You suck so f***ing hard at arguing vash.

but let's pick that apart anyway.

remain under-represented


Is there some good reason to think that medicine as a practice has equal representation one of its institutional goals? Would that be a good idea? If so why and what evidence do you have to support the idea? Is equal representation likely to produce better patient outcomes? Seems unlikely to me.

formal leadership positions

At the very top of the pyramid for the most competitive roles, there is an imbalance. But return to is this because of institutional sexism? A statistical imbalance is just an imbalance. Seems pretty unlikely you can make the further step. There are a host of reasons you might not want to be in the most high-end competitive role. The crazy hours for a start. but it is interesting isn't it that the go-to for evidence of oppression is underrepresentation in jobs with the smallest most selective candidate pool. IE the pool which already has enormous decisive reasons (which aren't sexism) to select from about 20 people at most. IE the least statistically reliable pool.

particular speciality areas

But they are over-represented in others. the fact that they arent under-represented in all specialisations cuts against the idea there is institutional sexism in medicine. do the reverse. If they are oppressed in these underrepresented specialisations are men oppressed in the specialisations where women are the majority (in some cases the overwhelming majority).
Vash
Posts: 5688
Location:

You're further drifting away from the original statement. That's the dodge, PP. JP said there are for more women physicians than men. This is wrong, and now you attempt to spin it as graduates are the majority so he's right?
A graduate isnt a physician, so whats preventing more women from progressing from graduate to a fully qualified physician? Perhaps there is an institutional issue within hospitals / clinics.

And the thing is PP, you confuse the meaning of 'institutional'.
A minority or gender can be institutionally oppressed without a law or government agency declaring it so. There are cultural norms in place, and inner circles / clubs that ensure the majority of decision makers are of certain gender.

The term "institution" commonly applies to both informal institutions such as customs, or behavior patterns important to a society
PornoPete
Posts: 2974
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

The conversation took place in the context of women not being able to enter professions as a result of institutional oppression Vash.

To pick out one stat, which is arguably correct in any event is dodging the issue.

I'm am staying exactly on point my little chum. You're the one posting links to the first thing you find, without checking if it undermines your point.

A graduate is a physician vash. They've graduated and are entitled to supervised practice. If you do that you'll get locked up.

There are cultural norms in place, and inner circles / clubs that ensure the majority of decision makers are of certain gender.


If the basis is cultural norms and not laws (which in a democratic society tend to reflect cultural norms pretty closely) You start listing them Vash. You find me a single medical cultural norm that says women can't be doctors. Have you ever met a single person who has said that or believes it? See how now you have to resort to the Illuminati are keeping women out. That didn't take long. three posts and the guy accusing people of 'dodging' has given up on evidence altogether.
Vash
Posts: 5689
Location:

A graduate is a physician vash


Heh. so back to my original question, why are there so many graduate women, and why doesn't that translate to majority practicing?
PornoPete
Posts: 2975
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

You do understand how sub-categories and general categories interact right?

You know a majority of a small group doesn't translate into a majority of a larger group because the numbers are smaller. I don't know how to explain really basic mathematics to you any simpler vash.
Nmag
Posts: 892
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

https://gifyu.com/images/trump.gif
paveway
Posts: 21480
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Lolz
fpot
Posts: 26193
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Strava release global GPS heatmap rvealing sensitive military information

In some cases you can even find evidence of individuals being tracked to their own home if you zoom in close enough. Lots of memos about altered patrol routes being passed out to people in the ready rooms today.
infi
Posts: 23962
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

well thats a bit awkward
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39446
Location: Other International

The headline is a bit inappropriate; it makes it sound like Strava made a mistake by releasing sensitive information, but that's not really what happened
Spook
Posts: 40971
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
strava heat maps are awesome. they helped me to find all the hidden cycling infrastructure on the norhtside of brisbane.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39447
Location: Other International

by 'hidden cycling infrastructure' do you mean SECRET MILITARY BASES

turns out Spook is ACTUALLY a spook and has been infiltrating our TOPPE SECRAT bases all along!
PornoPete
Posts: 2976
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Seems remarkable the US forces didn't have a policy about this.

I like the Strava heatmaps as well, but spook is definitely a Russian spy. It's in the name, hiding in plain sight.
Nmag
Posts: 893
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Strava whores like to race and share their progress. It's all part of the oversharing self promotion we have shifted too. Putting a black spot around your house is easy in Strava on a PC, but alas so many retarded smart phones users oversharing, don't know how, don't care, or are just that naive. People are very naive. For example if your a bicycle thief, just go check the race results, then search some names on Strava, then search white pages if you like, but you will know where the good bicycle are, and that same naive people tend to overshare other stuff. So it's just a matter of time till they post "Here we are in Hawai - I miss my 10k road bike" (public) and you go around there and eventually you get your crack money. There were organised groups stealing high end bikes using these methods in Sydney. They recon it's not just crack heads but actually well organised crime. The bikes are shipped out of the country. Naive. or you could rob some jogger's house easily when you can see their routine. Fools.
Insom
Posts: 4641
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

TIL about strava's existence
Phooks
Posts: 3347
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
We interrupt this threads usual RACISM DOESN'T EXIST s***fight to bring you the latest breaking news from the Loony Left:

4% of Trumps statements are classified as true on politifact.
What a straight talker!

The wealthiest people and largest corporations throughout the world have been stashing at least $21tn-$32tn in offshore tax havens in order to avoid taxes
But thats because they're smart, and TAXES are THEFT

The six richest people on Earth now own more wealth than the bottom half of the world’s population – 3.7 billion people. The top 1% now have more money than the bottom 99%.
capitalism works

Meanwhile, nearly one in seven people struggle to survive on less than $1.25 (90p) a day and some 29,000 children die daily from entirely preventable causes such as diarrhoea, malaria and pneumonia.
lucky we cut that foreign aid

As those hundreds of millions of people live in abysmal conditions, the arms merchants of the world grow increasingly rich as governments spend trillions of dollars on weapons. Guess which government wants in on that dough?
You f***in guessed it! Of all the manufacturing and export opportunity we have the best they can do is weapons. Cars? Nah. Renewables? Nah.

January 26 positions European settlement as the primary source of national identity and pride, successfully ignoring more than 60,000 years of pre-colonial history and 230 years of multicultural migration to Australia. Seen as a useless step towards reconciliation by lots of racists, luckily for them whether it's useless or not even if indigenous Australia succeeded in its quest for reconciliation the legacy of their racism would remain for generations
infi and PP seen clamouring to whataboutisms and triple M for salvation
Vash
Posts: 5690
Location:

https://i.redd.it/6c2otvgeqwc01.jpg

Classic conservatives
Viper119
Posts: 3353
Location: Other International

Why are the 'death squads' always getting such a hard time!? Perhaps they should rebrand..
fpot
Posts: 26195
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Phooks: coming soon, a huge pile of froth about the sources you used and not the content contained in the sources. And the links from fringe sources? Complete bulls*** how can you trust small organisations like that. By the way, did I mention the secret society conspiracy between MSM and the FBI to bring down the government? Check out this infowars link!

Retirement Teams might be a better name Viper.
Vash
Posts: 5692
Location:

haha touche' fpot
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39448
Location: Other International

I think instead of trying to become a top 10 weapons exported we should do something a bit less morally questionable, like fence off Tasmania and offer it up for use as a human hunting reserve for wealthy foreigners
PornoPete
Posts: 2977
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Hey phooks does it feel good when your cheer squad line up to suck your dick over left wing epitaphs? Seems a little early in the week to have been drinking again.

Speaking of Australia Day seeing as you care sooo much about the date I take it you spent the day working because you couldn't bring yourself to take a day of such unmitigated hate relaxing and thinking about the good Australia does.

As for arms dealing if it so wrong for Australia to do, you should move to Sweden at least then you can be in the top 10 arms exporting nations with the moral security that your government is feminist.

If people only need $2 a day to live phooks why don't you send all your spare income to alleviate the forgien aid short fall. You could use your drinking money.

And the links from fringe sources?


Pretty f***ing funny coming from a guardian reader.
PornoPete
Posts: 2978
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Hey you know who loves giving drug running death squads money?

Obama that's who.
Phooks
Posts: 3348
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

phooks does it feel good when your cheer squad line up to suck your dick over left wing epitaphs?
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/sugpJGDDiUy2r9JfhbonLv3NGP_MpD6JWwnnvO-oKvFyIuFcfuEJMGQdOAPgjR1s-KgMey-wUvvci7q-6MrZj3-iRloe-WPFaHf_yxHMOMiuXmHfoO7NQQ=w341-h431-nc

Every week when I go to the sperm bank they just hook me up to 5 machines at once while I virtue signal on message boards
Phooks
Posts: 3349
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Pp I will however note you both make fun of me for not donating (false), while at the same time making fun of my sources like the head of World Vision. It really shows your sick and twisted bent.

Just like infi and his identity politics idiocy, this is what rational people call 'mental gymnastics'
PornoPete
Posts: 2979
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I learnt everything I know about telling people they suck dick from you phooks.

Bit late to claim the high road now little man.
Phooks
Posts: 3350
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Considering your capacity for critical independant thought, I'll explain this the way I would to a 15y/o. It wasn't the fact you were doing the sex that was bad, it's the fact that you'd do the sex for the Trump.

You are the only one that ascribed negativity to the act of dick sucking because you're projecting, because deep down you think sucking dick is bad because you're a homophobe
PornoPete
Posts: 2980
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Pp I will however note you both make fun of me for not donating (false), while at the same time making fun of my sources like the head of World Vision.


No no, I'm just pointing out you drink instead on giving the money you spend on alcohol to starving kids.

I didn't make fun of your sources.

I think accusing me of mental gymnastics after the that incoherent pile of dog s*** is the real mental gymnastics.
PornoPete
Posts: 2981
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Considering your capacity for critical independant thought, I'll explain this the way I would to a 15y/o. It wasn't the fact you were doing the sex that was bad, it's the fact that you'd do the sex for the Trump.

You are the only one that ascribed negativity to the act of dick sucking because you're projecting, because deep down you think sucking dick is bad because you're a homophobe


No no you said I'd suck trumps dick as a negative. But I'm not sure that you distinction you now propose is any better.

If sucking dick is just fine why would doing it for Trump be bad?

And why did you chose sucking dick. Why not banking, or shopping, or shining shoes, or cleaning his bedroom. No you went to sucking dick. After you carefully explained sucking dick was a homophobic slur.

Funny that with all this talk of projection.
Phooks
Posts: 3351
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

So PP we've established you hate the very idea of an equal society. To what extent?

How much inequality is too much for you?
Phooks
Posts: 3352
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Because it shows how much you love and idolise Trump. God it's like talking to a brick with a mouth
PornoPete
Posts: 2982
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Because it shows how much you love and idolise Trump. God it's like talking to a brick with a mouth


Why does it show that phooks?

Sounds a little like homophobic projection there phooks.
PornoPete
Posts: 2983
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

So phooks we've established you hate gay people with the intensity of a thousand suns.

What is it that you hate about them so much.
Phooks
Posts: 3353
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Their excellent sense of style
PornoPete
Posts: 2984
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Oh so you're appealing to a homophobic stereotype.

Just stop talking phooks. You're only embarrassing yourself with this relentless anti gay screed.

You should go drink while looking at the pictures of the starving children you choose not to help with each sip.
Phooks
Posts: 3354
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Oh no, my feminisms :(

What I do love is that this is another interesting political phenomenon - the different 'standards' set for people championing more egalitarian viewpoints compared to right wingers championing the 'f*** you got mine' base. It's about expectations

A progressive used an anti-sex slur? Suddenly his opponents care deeply about the LGBTI+ agenda!! A vegan ate meat once a week? f***ing immoral. Obama orders mustard? High class twat.

And my favourite: a not for profit paying it's staff a competive/market wage? How can they steal that money from starving Africans?!

Meanwhile billionaires on their third wife pander to evangelicals like he's the next Christ
PornoPete
Posts: 2985
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Why would people who hold themselves out as living to a set of standards (and relentlessly call people immoral for not following those standards) get called out when they hypocritically fail to live up to the standards they set for themselves.

It's like a Hardy boys mystery.

I wonder how it ends.

Probably with phooks calling people homophobic for using language he himself described as homophobic but continues to use. Least he admits it was a slur now. We get the hypocrisy out the open for everyone to see.

A progressive used an anti-sex slur? Suddenly his opponents have reason to doubt he deeply cares about the LGBTI+ agenda!!


Just fixed that up for you phooks. You know seeing as you think like a 15y/o
Nmag
Posts: 894
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Comics are so funny...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUw55WAXUAIfrl6.jpg
Vash
Posts: 5693
Location:

'Lol look at this thing Obama did, GOTCHA'

'Oh you like to drink alcohol, why dont you spend that money on foreign aid?'

It's funny how much PP and co cry about feminist snow flakes, when they are the biggest frothing cry babies of all. Hypocrisy on display for everyone, indeed.

The illumanti are out to get Trump. It's all a liberal media conspiracy this Russia thing.
PornoPete
Posts: 2986
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Hey guy who posted "the look at the things reagan did" comic but upset about being reminded about Obama, remind us all who was talking about reagan before you?
Vash
Posts: 5694
Location:

Why would i be upset about Obama? He's just another neoliberal, though one that is acceptable to lead. Your whatabousies are cute as always, and amusing.
PornoPete
Posts: 2987
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Yes I'm sure we can all agree you have really heaped scorn on Obama.

Its not whataboutery when I did exactly what you did Vash. Or if it is you post was the start of the whataboutery.
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2181
Location: Sydney, New South Wales


I can't tell if we covered this because this thread loves american politics.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-30/strike-action-near-extinct-as-wages-stagnate,-think-tank-shows/9376070

This is a worry.

Strike action is more common in UK and French transport systems but our "Fair Work" commission stopped the first strike in years.

How can you argue for higher wages if you cannot down tools?


sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7808
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
^ With outsourcing and automation looming for nearly all occupations, unions will disappear.
Vash
Posts: 5696
Location:

^ With outsourcing and automation looming for nearly all occupations, unions will disappear.


Im curious how neoliberalism will deal with this upcoming problem. It worries me when they always say something like 'there will be more jobs created thanks to automation' while true, the question is, will it be enough to keep the economy thriving, and offsetting the immense job losses.
We're already dealing with too much wealth transferring to the 1% , and automation will worsen that problem. If unions are killed off due to automation, what happens to wages and job security?
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39450
Location: Other International

^ With outsourcing and automation looming for nearly all occupations, unions will disappear.
if automation looms for all occupations, then it means the need for occupations is gone and we can all move into space and become the Culture
Viper119
Posts: 3355
Location: Other International

if automation looms for all occupations, then it means the need for occupations is gone and we can all move into space and become the Culture


This is basically Star Trek, sounds great to me. Apart from the Borg bit. Although are the Borg not some metaphor for socialism / communism?
Vash
Posts: 5698
Location:

Although are the Borg not some metaphor for socialism / communism?


The Federation is.

Viper119
Posts: 3357
Location: Other International

The Federation is enabled through a capitalist system which itself was built off the back of the massive exploitation of robot labour. That's what enabled the switch from scarcity to an abundance of sorts which enables individuals to not have to work for money to live, so to speak. Do those robots not have workers rights Vash?

Calling the Federation Communist, based on comments from Kirk in Star Trek IV on not having any money in the future and Picard’s speech about the economics of the federation being significantly different than 21st century economics and people pursuing personal enrichment rather than the accumulation of wealth. The problem with this definition is it’s lazy — just because they don’t pursue the accumulation of wealth, it does not mean the Federation is communist.
The Federation is clearly not a centrally planned economy, and therefore obviously not communist. Individual freedom of choice is very obvious.
Private ownership still exists — the biggest examples, to me, are Sisko’s restaurant and Chateau Picard, but many other examples abound from all the trinkets everyone owns in their quarters.
The economics of Star Trek

I noticed in the new Star Trek Discovery, the crux of the Klingon's issue with the Federation seems to be the apparent loss of cultural identity, which I thought was an interesting allusion to individualism v socialism.

Seems to me you could argue the Federation is a type of socialist capitalism, whilst the Borg are communism.
fpot
Posts: 26199
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Do those robots not have workers rights Vash? 
Are they sentient?
PornoPete
Posts: 2988
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Strike action is more common in UK and French transport systems but our "Fair Work" commission stopped the first strike in years.


I wouldn't look to the UK or France for well paid trades jobs.

Their ability to strike hasn't improved their conditions compared to Australia at all.

The doom quotes fair work commission regularly finds in favour of workers. There was a big case last year that was awarded against Coles.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39451
Location: Other International

Seems to me you could argue the Federation is a type of socialist capitalism, whilst the Borg are communism.
I don't know if it's fair to call the Borg "communist" because they're a single entity hive mind (in theory).

I have been watching quite a lot of Star Trek recently (mostly TNG; Discovery is OK but kind of lame compared to TNG, I reckon). The economy of the Federation I don't think is really well covered; it's only really mentioned (at least in the eps I've been watching) when they stumble across something like a feudal culture as a talking point for how backwards they are. I still have like forfty million episodes to go though but looking forward to seeing how these themes develop.

But I agree with that article in at least one point - the Trek universe is not a true 'post-scarcity economy' in the strict sense of the term where everyone gets whatever they want all the time. But it's post-scarcity enough that people don't need to work, etc. I am not convinced our traditional models of economics can be flat out applied here.

If you're interested in post-scarcity sci fi depictions I strongly recommend The Culture series. Culture citizens are sneeringly called communists by rival civilisations but it's not really what it is.
Do those robots not have workers rights Vash?
I actually just watched Measure of a Man which is kind of about this topic :D

tldr: old Star Trek is awesome
Vash
Posts: 5699
Location:

Ive seen that article before, Viper, and using his argument in the case of Venezuela, it couldn't possibly be Socialist, considering it has a privately owned industry. Though market based Socialism is a thing.
There's really no such thing as a purist form of an economic system, every country has its own flavor of Capitalism or Socialism.

I'd say the Federation leans more to Communism than any other system we know of.
PornoPete
Posts: 2989
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I don't know if it's fair to call the Borg "communist" because they're a single entity hive mind (in theory).


Seems like the perfect expression of the subordinatation of the individual to the collective to me.
fpot
Posts: 26201
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Lot of depressed looking people at the SOTU thinking about the terrible mess they'll have to clean up in 2020.
PornoPete
Posts: 2990
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Phooks thought it was a brave masculine performance. He thought trumps suit was really snappy. It filled him with hope and a number of other emotions which were weird and deeply confusing.
infi
Posts: 23963
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I just saw a bunch of confused and conflicted Democrats who wanted to stand and applaud at various points but weren't allowed by the Queen bee. Trump brought his A game.
fpot
Posts: 26202
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Trump brought his A game
Hmmm I reckon he could have squeezed in a few more provably wrong statements if he was truly on song.

edit: now with better link and grammar.
PornoPete
Posts: 2991
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I'm confused.

He asserted that since, the election, 2.4 million new jobs have been created, even though this is actually the slowest gain in jobs since 2010.


How is that an example of a falsehood. The truth of the rate of job creation is unrelated to the truth of the number of jobs created.
Viper119
Posts: 3358
Location: Other International

Well, how do you define sentience? Even if they're not, presumably the Federation citizens don't have shared ownership of the means of production (e.g. the robot workforce). What about the Federation is communist-like to you Vash? Honestly interested, as seems much more like socialist capitalism to me. They don't have a centrally planned economy, there's no shared ownership of production, they have a capitalist economic system, they still have individual freedoms, private property ownership, a class structure and a monetary system.

Thanks trog! Will check it out. I'm just starting Neruomancer. TNG is great, I met Patrick Stewart a while back, he did the voiceover for one of our marketing vids, he's a true gent!

Discovery is indeed a bit pants, it's well cheesy, who writes these things!? It's a shame.
fpot
Posts: 26204
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Well are they Data style androids or mechanical robots like the ones that exist today?
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2182
Location: Sydney, New South Wales


https://www.buzzfeed.com/lanesainty/a-company-charging-migrants-for-unpaid-job-trials-called-a?utm_term=.gdGEvvmOg#.rhrV33PGq

Capitalism is fine.
PornoPete
Posts: 2992
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Would have been better presented as a ten item list and filed under OMG.

For example

OMG ten reasons sir redhat doesn't understand capitalism.

1. He thinks the fair work commission is a neo-liberal conspiracy to cheat workers.

And 9 others.
Vash
Posts: 5700
Location:

What about the Federation is communist-like to you Vash? Honestly interested, as seems much more like socialist capitalism to me. They don't have a centrally planned economy, there's no shared ownership of production, they have a capitalist economic system, they still have individual freedoms, private property ownership, a class structure and a monetary system.


In the Federation there's no constant need to gain wealth & material possessions, and people prove themselves by seeking to do what their passion is, rather than driven by profit.
Opposite to what you've learned about Communism, i believe it's the ultimate form of individual freedom. It breaks the chains of influence that money & ownership, and therefor Government, has on people & democracy.
In trade hubs like DS9 they use a currency (Latinum) to trade with other species, but within the Federation there's no money needed, they have replicators and unlimited energy, they abolished poverty, which isn't possible within a Capitalist economy.

I think the Ferengi are a suitable metaphor for a pure Capitalist society. They were looked down upon for their pure greed & pursuit for money, and showing off their wealth to one another, which isn't far off how society is today. And the creator of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry was anti capitalist so he likely kept this in mind when he created the Ferengi.

Here's Rom getting woke, and the birth of a union in Quark's Bar.

PornoPete
Posts: 2993
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Opposite to what you've learned about Communism, i believe it's the ultimate form of individual freedom.


Nothing says individual freedom like the needs of the collective trumping individual rights.

Vash knows. He found a ridiculous caricature in star trek.
Nmag
Posts: 895
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

showing off their wealth to one another, which isn't far off how society is today


Today... just like the day we lived in caves and every other day between in our world. Competition drives improvement. You can have a nice little theoretical world where we are all even and all have nothing, or all have the same, however human behaviour will drive people to have an edge on the other. The behaviour is good. Competition is healthy... Charles Darwin thought so too.

These kinds of human behaviours are expressed well in this show:

https://12o8ap2zx3154c0nkx1svmv3-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/keepingupappearances-660x400.jpeg
Vash
Posts: 5701
Location:

You can have a nice little theoretical world where we are all even and all have nothing, or all have the same, however human behaviour will drive people to have an edge on the other.


Yes thats healthy. Its unhealthy where it becomes about accumulating as much wealth & possessions as possible over much of the rest of the human population.
In the Trek universe, and in Communism, people are still competitive, but it's healthy competition. Like among engineers, or out doing your fellow student, or in sports.

I struggle to understand how people think that in a society without money & culture of gaining as many possessions as possible, humans suddenly lose their desire to compete.
Viper119
Posts: 3360
Location: Other International

In the Federation there's no constant need to gain wealth & material possessions, and people prove themselves by seeking to do what their passion is, rather than driven by profit.


This is literally enabled by their capitalist economic system. Whatsmore, you can do this in our world today, and many people do.

I don't think what you're describing is communism old bean.

communism
ˈkɒmjʊnɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
PornoPete
Posts: 2994
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

many people do.


Most viper. Most. The vast majority in fact. Humans have never enjoyed more personal autonomy than they do right now.
Vash
Posts: 5702
Location:

Yes you suddenly fully understand Communism with a quick google dictionary, Viper. I suggest reading abit further into it, like how Marx says Capitalism is useful for rapid development, until it reaches a peak where it will no longer serve humanity.
Picard explains that they have evolved beyond the need for want or need of possessions & wealth. So while the Federation could thank Capitalism for the development to their current technological state, another system is needed once they reached a stage of automated production and near unlimited energy.
So essentially, the Federation citizens do share the means of production, since there is no poverty, everyone has access to education, health care, food, housing etc. Something that isn't attainable in a Capitalist economy.

Humans have never enjoyed more personal autonomy than they do right now.


Cute coming from the comfort of your rich western country.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39455
Location: Other International

Classical "communism" does not relate well to sci fi worlds because it doesn't envisage a sci-fi-esque post-scarcity economy.
This is literally enabled by their capitalist economic system.
i would disagree; I'd say its enabled by their technological automation and advancement and their socialist tendencies to give people what they need to live a happy healthy life. I think that is what we're trending for in the near future, based on things like UBI etc. But we'll do it in a s***tier way than Star Trek :D

I need to finish watching TNG though; maybe there are other episodes where they talk about Federation economics in more detail but I'm not super familiar with the Lore (other than when they use it to make a plot point).

Cute coming from the comfort of your rich western country.
Still, it is true globally; we are in an unprecedented period of worldwide wealth and health even accounting for a few terribad places that still suck.
PornoPete
Posts: 2995
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Yes you suddenly fully understand Communism with a quick google dictionary, Viper. I suggest reading abit further into it,


God you're incredible. The actual physical manifestation of the dunning-kruger effect. It's avatar. Just to layer a bit of context on that. The first post in this thread was in 2014. Vash who chastises people about their ignorance of communism still has not read even the manifesto. It should take a competent reader no more than an hour.

Cute coming from the comfort of your rich western country.


You live here too jackass. The vast majority of humanity does not live in absolutely poverty and the rate of relative poverty decreases each and every year.

Gotta love capitalism.

i would disagree; I'd say its enabled by their technological automation and advancement


Their socialist tendencys have nothing to do with it. The economics is about the distribution of goods and services. If you have an unlimited supply of both economics becomes redundant.

But I doubt star trek's economics have been thought through in any real depth.
Vash
Posts: 5703
Location:


Classical "communism" does not relate well to sci fi worlds because it doesn't envisage a sci-fi-esque post-scarcity economy.


Personally i think it does, as below.

Marx's concept of a post-capitalist communist society involves the free distribution of goods made possible by the abundance provided by automation.[27] The fully developed communist economic system is postulated to develop from a preceding socialist system. Marx held the view that socialism—a system based on social ownership of the means of production—would enable progress toward the development of fully developed communism by further advancing productive technology. Under socialism, with its increasing levels of automation, an increasing proportion of goods would be distributed freely.[28]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy

This is from a time before automation wasn't even conceived as a possibility. Communism was designed to cater to the needs of a post capitalist society where there is an abundance of resources & technology has reached a point where the wage labor relationship is no longer required.
PornoPete
Posts: 2996
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Marx's concept of a post-capitalist communist society involves the free distribution of goods made possible by the abundance provided by automation.
This is from a time before automation wasn't even conceived as a possibility


It is shocking how badly the education system can fail people.
Zenmaster
Posts: 41
Location: Queensland

depends on who you ask Vash
infi
Posts: 23964
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I have to laugh at the abject naivete. Vash sounds like someone who avoided interactions in the real world in preference for inhabiting a space sci-fi online sim where he can live out his undergrad wikipedia-fuelled fantasies.

Try any sort of every day commerce (hell even listing something on Gumtree) and you will quickly learn its eat or be eaten.

PS Star Trek is not real.
Vash
Posts: 5704
Location:

The real world's system is Capitalism, Infi. It's all you and I know, so naturally you're stuck in a mindset of 'this is all it can be, and ever will be'

I think some sheltered people here need to visit these poverty stricken regions and tell me again that the world poverty rate is low, a measurement by the world bank puts the poverty line at less than $2 a day, with half of the world at $2.50 a day. Something tells me the measurement of poverty is flawed.

'Gotta love Capitalism' said noone from these regions, ever.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39456
Location: Other International

Personally i think it does, as below.
I dunno, it still uses the word "ownership" which I don't think is really compatible with (at least Culture-esque) society. I get that it's definitely aligned though so won't quibble too much.
infi
Posts: 23965
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The only way people in poverty will ever improve their plight is through commerce. Because all the aid sent there is swallowed in corruption. There is no tooth fairy.
PornoPete
Posts: 2997
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I think some sheltered people here need to visit these poverty stricken regions and tell me again that the world poverty rate is low,


Haha have you vash. Have you ever even left the country?

, a measurement by the world bank puts the poverty line at less than $2 a day, with half of the world at $2.50 a day. Something tells me the measurement of poverty is flawed.


What tells you its wrong vash? Guess you've never been to one of these countries you tell us sheltered people to visit and have no idea of the concept of PPP. Maybe it's you're total lack of economic knowledge? Your failure to understand even basic civic governance concepts? Or the knowledge you gleaned from reading zero books by Marx? Or the deep understanding a fictional show has given you of the real world. Why don't you apply the profound economic lessons contained in Skyrim next.

'Gotta love Capitalism' said noone from these regions, ever.


Yeah except they all join capitalist forums like APEC and the WTO, actively chase foreign investment and tourism dollars.

So yeah aside from the fact they are capitalist, act like capatalists, join international capitalists bodies, they really hate capitalism.
Vash
Posts: 5705
Location:

Have you ever even left the country?


Multiple times, Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand.
It really opens your eyes when you see mothers and their babies living on the streets, and dying dogs. If you ever visit, hit up a local 7-11 with some microwave meals costing less than a $1 ea, and hand them out to the homeless.

But this is all SJW stuff that shouldn't concern someone like you.

they all join capitalist forums


You really are sheltered aren't you? Who is 'they'? Not half the world living on $2.50 a day right?

Maybe it's you're total lack of economic knowledge


You continually misuse you're, not to be a grammar nazi or anything, but if you accuse others of the education system failing them...
PornoPete
Posts: 2998
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

If you ever visit, hit up a local 7-11 with some microwave meals costing less than a $1 ea, and hand them out to the homeless.


Still struggling with PPP aren't you. Microwave meals to the homeless. That seems a little cruel to me. You get em the microwave too?

You really are sheltered aren't you? Who is 'they'? Not half the world living on $2.50 a day right?


Ahm these three countries

Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand.


Are all members of both APEC and the WTO. So it includes everyone in poverty you've ever seen little buddy. But you get out there and school people with you deep knowledge of the issues at you're local 7-11.

In fact well over half the world's population are under the jurisdiction of the WTO. Mostly at the behest of their elected leaders.

But you totes nailed me on the correct usage of "you're". The education system may not have fixed auto correct on my phone, but it also failed to teach you to comprehend even simple sentences.
Vash
Posts: 5706
Location:

Still struggling with PPP aren't you.


Not at all. PPP isn't hard to grasp. Even taking into account the cost of living in these countries, $2.50 a day doesn't get you far. Hence the rampant homelessness, and prostitution.
Again, go visit these countries. You sure need it.

So it includes everyone in poverty


Hah.. yeah like the massive amounts of people living on the streets, im sure they're included. Back in the real world...
PornoPete
Posts: 2999
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Explain PPP then vash.

Maybe I can be a later day saint like you and buy unhealthy meals at the most expensive place for the least number of people.

Hah.. yeah like the massive amounts of people living on the streets, im sure they're included. Back in the real world...


Well they are vash. They are citizens of member countries. It's ok will just add membership of international treaties to the long list of s*** you dont get
Nmag
Posts: 896
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Yes thats healthy. Its unhealthy where it becomes about accumulating as much wealth & possessions as possible.


This is what has happened since the beginning of time too... except in the first few months of a 'hippy commune"... a few months in, and the class system starts to establish... material objects... human instinct eventually crushes the original concept. If it helps you cope with the pain, there are many people who have flashy things and are in debt to their eye balls... for things that are luxuries, that they they regard as necessities... and even those people (because they are stupid) will likely blame others once their life of credit collapses in on itself.

The champagne taste, beer income mindset drives a great deal of this. The whole "keeping up with the Jones's". This culture of FB self promotion of lifestyle further encourages it, as it provides a vehicle to increase the communication of this kind of crap... and we can see the correlation between the over-sharers, and the naive stupidity in their disclosure of personal information.

We all makes choices. If we don't have much, or don't like what we have, then the issue is within ourselves if it impacts on our own lives.. it's not the over sharers to blame or the people showing off. It's our own choice how we react. It's worth thinking about how we choose to react to these things.
PornoPete
Posts: 3000
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Democratic Party gets caught with an actual dossier of fake news produced by a Russian smear company, which is linked to requests for illegal FISA warrants - and that is a wild conspiracy.
Like I said, Trumpers are all in full blown conspiracy land at this point. Exactly and I mean exactly like 9/11 truthers.
Imma leave this here.

Opposition research (Which may well contain actual Russian FSB disinformation) and undisclosed as such, formed a quote 'essential part' of the FISA application. backed by quotes from yahoo news which were themselves based on steele's testimony.

Gotta say, called bulls*** on the Steele dossier at the time. Count it chaps.

It'll be interesting to see what the Dem's memo has to say. I don't really see how you can give 'context' which makes that ok. If they don't show that is factually wrong, a grave abuse of power has taken place.

I think we know why Andy McCabe resigned now.
fpot
Posts: 26207
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

As expected the memo was nothing more than a shameful attempt to create interference in an investigation and to create a pretext for Trump to fire key people investigating him. Of course the russian twitter bots and the white nationalist focal points are saying different and sounding increasingly desperate as days go by.
PornoPete
Posts: 3001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Haha, still ignoring me hey fpot.

As expected the memo was nothing more than a shameful attempt to create interference in an investigation and to create a pretext for Trump to fire key people investigating him.


Adam Schiff is going to need his talking points back fpot.

A shameful attempt to confirm that an unverified dossier, paid for by the DNC formed the basis of a warrant for the FBI to conduct secret electronic surveillance on an opposing presidential campaign while the FBI was controlled by the Democrats (which the dems and the FBI both had a chance to amend). Dude that is a major major deal.

Poor little fpot. Just can't accept a president he doesn't like was elected. So it was racists and Russians that dunnit. Nothing is going to break that internal narrative.

Hehehe

Exactly and I mean exactly like 9/11 truthers.


So you gonna apologise to infi about that? You were the maximum level of being wrong.
infi
Posts: 23966
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I don't need an apology :D I knew I was right.

Next step is to start gutting the FBI and Justice Dept. It's good to see US with a CEO who knows how to play harder than the swamp. The extent to which the MSM has excused this behaviour I find to be the most shocking aspect.
PornoPete
Posts: 3002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

No but it would be funny.

Captain accuse everyone of being evil racists because he is so virtuous should be capable of an apology when being flat out wrong.
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2183
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

How's that wall going? So much winning, I cannot keep track.
Vash
Posts: 5707
Location:

still ignoring me hey fpot.


For good reason.

Just can't accept a president he doesn't like was elected


Many share that sentiment. Like, the voters.

Just a lil reminder

https://i.imgur.com/jZVuWDc.jpg
PornoPete
Posts: 3003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

For good reason.

There are those education dollars hard at work.


Thanks for telling us about trump's approval rating from March 2017 Vash.
fpot
Posts: 26209
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

I don't need an apology :D I knew I was right. Next step is to start gutting the FBI and Justice Dept. It's good to see US with a CEO who knows how to play harder than the swamp. The extent to which the MSM has excused this behaviour I find to be the most shocking aspect.
You're just drenched in the flavor-aid aren't you?

To think that a shambolicly corrupt entity like the Trump administration dismantling the few remaining institutions that have a shred of credibility and independence so that said corrupt administration is free to fester and become even more corrupt means you are literally radicalised. Not just pretend radicilised like you say greens supporters who accept things like climate change are, but for real. There is nothing Trump could do (apart from reversing the terrible course he has set the USA on) that would make you turn against him, and there is nothing he could say that you wouldn't believe.
infi
Posts: 23967
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

It would be pretty bad if Donald started spying on his political opponents using weaponised law enforcement agencies and bogus surveillance warrants.
fpot
Posts: 26210
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams!
Vash
Posts: 5708
Location:

Thanks for telling us about trump's approval rating from March 2017 Vash.


You're welcome. But if you're still not sure here you go.
Nmag
Posts: 897
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Drain swamps
PornoPete
Posts: 3004
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I read fivethirtyeight for polls Vash. And trumps polls are improving. So if you want to use polls as evidence people are finally starting to see through him (which is f***ing hilarious), well how about those education dollarydoos hey.

It would be pretty bad if Donald started spying on his political opponents using weaponised law enforcement agencies and bogus surveillance warrants.
Jet fuel can't melt steel beams!


Oh fpot. What a sad little man.

Trump's underlings meet with Russian lawyer in which no information changes hands. <-trump stole the election with Russia

Hillary campaign uses a dossier which the creator states used Russian sources as the basis for illegal domestic spying, by the admission of the people that sought the warrant. <- 9/11 was an inside job your racist.

I think someone needs to brush off the dictionary and turn to the cognitive dissonance page. you seem to be suffering it. quite badly.
Vash
Posts: 5709
Location:

Speaking of education dollars, i checked the fivethirtyeight polls, and i don't see any indication of improvement even from that poll. He's often reached 40% then dropped down again, and he's never recovered from the peak of 47.8% approval back in January just after the election.
Then there's the lil nugget of being the least popular first year president in modern history. But dem democrats out to getchya
PornoPete
Posts: 3005
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Here is the link to his approval polls.guess we add trend lines to ways the education system failed you

But dem democrats out to getchya

Hehe. I think I'm good for advice on when something grave has happened by someone who evidently struggles with whether a line points up or down.
fpot
Posts: 26215
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Thanks for telling us about trump's approval rating from March 2017 Vash.


You're welcome. But if you're still not sure here you go.
When you don't even need to see a person's post to know they got clowned on.
PornoPete
Posts: 3006
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

When you don't even need to see a person's post to know they got clowned on.


Oh look someone else who struggles with the numerical concept of "greater than".

It's this new kind of ignoring where you read everything the person you're "ignoring" writes and passive aggressively respond through a proxy.

f*** you're just sad dude.
Vash
Posts: 5710
Location:

Its too funny PP's own choice of polls demonstrates that Trump is the least popular president in modern history, and he says to look at the trends. I prefer real world data, not projections.
Do you care that an elected official says more lies than any politician we know of? Considering this alone doesn't change your opinion of him says alot about your depressing world view.
PornoPete
Posts: 3007
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I prefer real world data, not projections.


His real world data is improving vash. Go and look at the polls. 40% approval is higher than 37%. I never said he was drowning in popularity. I said his polls are improving. <- This is unequivocally factually true.

You know almost nothing about my world view Vash.

It terms of lying. Here is a 'false claim' according to politifact.

He lied about the fact of the new york times writing about the fact his campaign was subject to electronic surveillance. this counts as one of the lies of the all-time lying president.

The fact that his campaign was subject to electronic surveillance magically isn't the important part of that fact check.
Vash
Posts: 5711
Location:

You know almost nothing about my world view Vash.


If your posts are any indication, i think i have a pretty good idea.

So do you actually care about the constant lying or not? Personally i hold a honest politician in high esteem, one that has good character, in touch & relatable to the people. All these things Trump is not.
So what do you look for in a politician?
Nmag
Posts: 898
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Do you care that an elected official says more lies than any politician we know of.


Fake news, unfounded, gross generalisation.
PornoPete
Posts: 3008
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

If your posts are any indication, i think i have a pretty good idea.


no you know almost nothing.

So do you actually care about the constant lying or not?


You start listing the lies you think I should care about. Because the vast majority lies I see reported on end up being ultimately insignificant. For example Trump 'lying' about what he read in the new york times.

Here is another 'lie'. it is false that Germany needs to pay money into nato.

Whats not false is that Germany does not meet its agreed spending commitments and therefore freerides on the US under the NATO agreement and this has been a source of friction for at least a decade. But he 'lied' about having to pay money to NATO.

Politifact manages to routinely fail to see the forest for the trees in these 'fact checks'.
Zenmaster
Posts: 42
Location: Queensland

I'm beginning to think that I that I too, could successfully run for office in my local electrolate.


I'm also lolling atm as my browser has Amercian spelling filters, and apparently the word "electrolate" in not in the database of words comprehended.


"apologuise"


yep - there we go again.
Vash
Posts: 5712
Location:

Whats not false is that Germany does not meet its agreed spending commitments and therefore freerides on the US under the NATO agreement and this has been a source of friction for at least a decade. But he 'lied' about having to pay money to NATO.


Well the statement is factually wrong, no money is owed from Germany. Each NATO member pays whatever they wish into their military budget. But we're going abit off track here aren't we?

Surely you're aware Trump lies often, and im sure you know already theres some lies you care about.
PornoPete
Posts: 3009
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Well the statement is factually wrong, no money is owed from Germany. Each NATO member pays whatever they wish into their military budget.
not according to NATO. Guess we can add 'factually wrong' to the list of things vash doesn't get.

But we're going abit off track here aren't we?


No we aren't and here is why.

Surely you're aware Trump lies often


The of false statements include a great many things which may be on some level technicality untrue. For example the NATO spending requirement. It is not true that member states pay into a shared fund, and so on that level (the entirely inconsequential level), it counts as a falsehood, though 'lie' requirement an intentional element which is probably a stretch.

But there is a required minimum spend of 2% of GPD which virtually no-one in Europe meets including Germany.

NATO itself on the page I linked to acknowledges there is over-reliance on US military spending and capability. So on the policy front, Trump is not only not lying. He is correct.

but it gets counted as a lie.
fpot
Posts: 26217
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Yo infi, say I spent my entire life following an ideal that people always s*** on, and something big happened that validated it but people called it a dumb conspiracy theory. I'd be posting the s*** out of things from many credible sources and just owning the f*** out of the dumb f*** who just said that. It would be a really easy thing to do as well because this big thing? Totally factual and fully able to stand up to any level of scrutiny. Yet all I hear is crickets.
Vash
Posts: 5713
Location:

Still going off track PP. And the statement is still factually incorrect, theres no money owed to the USA.
And there is no debt incurred if a member country does not meet the minimum GDP % requirement.

I dont expect you to call out Trump at all for the many confirmed lies. But it was cute to see you try to defend him once more.
PornoPete
Posts: 3010
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

We aren't off track vash because the example demonstrates that things which are true get marked as lies for Trump.

And the statement is still factually incorrect, theres no money owed to the USA.
And there is no debt incurred if a member country does not meet the minimum GDP % requirement.


Where did I say either of those things vash? Here is what I said.

Whats not false is that Germany does not meet its agreed spending commitments and therefore freerides on the US under the NATO agreement and this has been a source of friction for at least a decade.


Notice there is no discussion of debt or of money owed to the US. I said Germany doesn't meet it's spending commitments and freerides on US spending and capability. This is factually correct and acknowledged by NATO and the Germans themselves and trumps point.

I guess freeriding is another thing we can add to the list if things vash doesn't understand.

I dont expect you to call out Trump at all for the many confirmed lies.


I don't expect you to start producing meaningful examples. It's funny to watch you routinely expose your ignorance on a pelthora of topics and instead spout the expected party line, backed with the confidence only extreme idiocy combined with complete ignorance of the topic at hand can deliver.
Vash
Posts: 5714
Location:

Where did I say either of those things vash? Here is what I said.


Dude really? We're not talking about what you said, we're talking about Trump's statement. You're a special one aren't you.
PornoPete
Posts: 3011
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Jesus, that is some backpedal vash.

Here is the text you quoted.
Whats not false is that Germany does not meet its agreed spending commitments and therefore freerides on the US under the NATO agreement and this has been a source of friction for at least a decade. But he 'lied' about having to pay money to NATO.


Here is what you wrote in response.

Well the statement is factually wrong, no money is owed from Germany. Each NATO member pays whatever they wish into their military budget.


You were very obviously ignorant of the minimum budget requirements seeing as you stated they didnt exist.

f***ing hell you're a singularity of stupidity and ignorance
Vash
Posts: 5715
Location:

It isn't backpedalling when we're talking about Trump's statement and whether it's a lie, PP.
The statement is factually incorrect. I know you struggle with facts at times but this is laughable. There is no debt owed by Germany. Trump said they owe vast amounts of money. They don't. There is no law or contract stating they owe money.
PornoPete
Posts: 3012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Yeah but you clearly stated member countries can contribute any amount they wish to their military budget. Which is wrong and a point I raised.

You were clearly responding to what I said vash.

But the deeper point is, which you are plainly unable to grasp, that NATO does have minimum spending requirements, Germany does not meet them and as a result relies on the US largesse for its national security. Trump is right to draw attention to this and the technical point that they don't contribute to a common fund does not undermine this.

The policy position is a correct and good one.

Hence, if you ask do I care about his lies, I respond is the lie important?

I know you struggle with higher order thought but this really shouldn't be so difficult to explain.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39457
Location: Other International

The only way people in poverty will ever improve their plight is through commerce. Because all the aid sent there is swallowed in corruption. There is no tooth fairy.
I kind of agree actually; I'd rather teach a person to fish, kind of thing. But it's totally undeniable that the quality of life has risen world wide and a big part of that is foreign aid programmes. Despite the corruption & waste they have had a measurable impact helping 's***holes' bootstrap themselves into commerce.

It's easy to say 'why don't they just get a job/start a business/build their economy' but the reality is when you're starving in a mud house too weak from malaria to walk 15km to get a bucket of clean water while you still don't have indoor plumbing, it's kind of tricky.

I do think aid dollars could be spent better, but I feel that way about government dollars, business dollars, and my dollars, but in the meantime at least by most metrics the world is slowly improving
Vash
Posts: 5716
Location:

Yeah but you clearly stated member countries can contribute any amount they wish to their military budget.


Which is correct, there is no enforcement by NATO for members who do not reach the minimum requirement, and no debt incurred for the time they spend below that requirement.

NATO is mutual defense pact, which prevents the attack by a foreign nation on one of its members. So the USA is not providing very expensive defense to Germany, but all the nations of NATO are doing so, to one another.

You can attempt to explain it for him, but that would be putting words in his mouth, wouldn't it? I thought you looked down on that kind of stuff.
PornoPete
Posts: 3013
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Which is correct, there is no enforcement by NATO for members who do not reach the minimum requirement, and no debt incurred for the time they spend below that requirement.


It just isn't vash. I know you struggle with basic concepts like 'agreement'.

Trump is looking to pressure Germany to lift it's spending. That's the enforcement mechanism. The fact that there is no makeup payments is testament to US patience in this area. Trump is telling them that it's wearing thin and so he should.

So the USA is not providing very expensive defense to Germany, but all the nations of NATO are doing so, to one another.


Yeah it is, and it's right that all member countries are supposed to contribute which is why the US (under Obama as well) has been pushing countries to do their share. Their share being a mutually agreed 2% of GDP spent on their military.

I honestly struggle to understand how you can be this thick and operate in society.

You can attempt to explain it for him, but that would be putting words in his mouth, wouldn't it? I thought you looked down on that kind of stuff.


Still struggling with the difference between strawmanning and steelmanning I see.
infi
Posts: 23968
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Yet all I hear is crickets.


The Democrats have been completely discredited with Russia Collusion fake news. The MSM is going insane with their desperation to cling onto this narrative. Trump's tax cuts mean they will win the Congressional mid-term elections. There's no need to gloat. Winning is enough of a good feeling. This is the best show on earth.
fpot
Posts: 26218
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

When I scan over your next post that has heaps of blue underlined text in it I'll read it.
PornoPete
Posts: 3014
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Naw look at fpot. His talking points are falling apart in front of him. He's been mistaken about almost everything and that makes captain virtuous sad in his sad place.
infi
Posts: 23969
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

All one has to do is look at the faces of Democrats during the SOTU address. They were determined to support nothing. Frowned at their own members wanting to clap Trump's achievements. They are low energy full of loser talk. Donald eats these kind of chumps daily. The best thing is Trump is settling into the job nicely.

Greg Sheridan puts it well in his oped. Finally after sorting out his personnel issues Trump is learning to dominate key domestic and foreign policy issues.

The Democrats are now an extreme-left wing party (more left wing than our Greens) who are more interested with retaining illegal immigrants than supporting working class Americans (just like our Greens).

If you need links to figure this out fpot then you need new batteries in your Maglite.
fpot
Posts: 26219
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

So your evidence is the look on the democrats faces? This is what you have to back up your claim of a deep state coordinated conspiracy between a secret society sect of the FBI and the MSM to bring down a president for *reasons*. Oh, and a paywalled article from the lolstralian.

You're radicalised. You are relying on unfounded conspiracy theories that are weak as piss. You're the new breed of 9/11 truther.
Insom
Posts: 4643
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

it sure was a mighty fine speech, and perhaps democrats should have been magnanimous enough to applaud it, and that he was able to read it all by himself with minimal ad libbing of "great" and "huge" but sadly they have long memories
fpot
Posts: 26220
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

I guess I do get your eagerness about it though. Trump is you - the perennial failure who'd be eating out of a gutter if it wasn't for daddy's money. Russia is your dad - the corrupt entity getting you to places you clearly don't belong to be. The FBI are your staff - the real victims who're wondering what the f*** they did wrong to be cursed with such a bumbling fool as their boss. Your staff are powerless about the situation so they can only laugh at you behind your back.
infi
Posts: 23970
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

hahah this is a great post above to demonstrate how serious Trump Derangement Syndrome can get!! f***ing brilliant!
fpot
Posts: 26221
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

The person demanding evidence for the far reaching multi levelled conspiracy is deranged. The person gobbling it down hiding behind adolescent defence mechanisms is not.

All that needs to happen to make this administration to become bona fide dangerous is for this stunt to succeed in dismantling his oversight and for the amount of drooling followers to reach a critical mass. That's how close we are right now to a catastrophe.
PornoPete
Posts: 3015
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

What I find most hysterical of all is fpot 'ignores' me for pointing out 'treating people as chattel' is a reference to slavery and his obsession with race makes him look pretty racist, but somehow he expects a response of infi, spouting s*** like that.

Sick comeback bro.

Infi: hey looks like the FBI abused the FISC to surveil trump. The chairman of the congressional committee responsible just released a memo stating that after giving his partisan rivals and the FBI a chance to edit it (which the FBI did, and the democrats laughably claimed meant that they now couldn't release the memo because it had been materially changed).

fpot: infi is racist no wonder he likes trump so much his life story in my f***ing retarded opinion is just like infis. If you don't post a number of links to news outlets I approve (such as 'now this' or vox, but the Australian is not a good enough source that is comedy gold.) it mustn't be serious.

The person demanding evidence for the far reaching multi levelled conspiracy is deranged. The person gobbling it down hiding behind adolescent defence mechanisms is not.


Naw fpot is demanding 'evidence'. This is what it looks like when someone who is all in on trump being satan himself gets a reality check.

Just too good.

All that needs to happen to make this administration to become bona fide dangerous is for this stunt to succeed in dismantling his oversight


the FBI isn't the president's oversight fpot. they are his employees. congress is the president's oversight and they appear to be upset with the job the employees are doing. Unsurprisingly, fpot evidently doesn't know what he is talking about.
Nmag
Posts: 900
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

TDS They have outbreaks at some universities, and a small infestation in the ABC, but this could hit plague proportions.
fpot
Posts: 26222
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

So that's it then? Literally nothing apart from some fluff piece from the Australian of all places that I can't even read because of the paywall. Gotta say when I made that original post up there I was really expecting a challenging reply. I even took my pete script off thinking he'd at least make an attempt but nope, just his usual mewling bulls***. I can almost hear the nasally whine just from reading his s***.

So do you really have absolutely nothing?
PornoPete
Posts: 3016
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

So that's it then? Literally nothing apart from some fluff piece from the Australian of all places that I can't even read because of the paywall. Gotta say when I made that original post up there I was really expecting a challenging reply. I even took my pete script off thinking he'd at least make an attempt but nope, just his usual mewling bulls***. I can almost hear the nasally whine just from reading his s***


He even took his pete script off. f*** you're funny fpot. By Pete script you mean reading everything I write and crying.

hey looks like the FBI abused the FISC to surveil trump. The chairman of the congressional committee responsible just released a memo stating that after giving his partisan rivals and the FBI a chance to edit it (which the FBI did, and the democrats laughably claimed meant that they now couldn't release the memo because it had been materially changed).


This contains more facts than the entire Russian collusion story. Fpot can't accept the truth because he is completely invested in trump being evil. So he lashes out calling people racist. I did warn you to mentally prepare yourself fpot over a year ago. Someone who calls being corrected about facts on a forum being 'gaslighted' was always likely to throw their toys out the cot when s*** didnt go their way.

The fact is the democrats had a chance to correct the memo. They didn't take it. They've released by leaking a new memo which doesn't challenge the basic facts that the stelle dossier was used and had not been (and still hasn't been) verified, and the fact it was paid for by the DNC wasn't disclosed to the court.

Instead they are trying to say that Steele was a credible source. Given that Steele was sacked by the FBI for going to press agencies and is now caught up in a libel case in the UK and has admitted under oath the dossier was unverified that argument is suspect to start with and more importantly irrelevant to whether FBI was entitled to rely on it.

Notice how fpot hasn't posted a single Link to a story explaining why the memo is a shameful attempt to distract.

He's just got his whinging bitch on. And does he have it on. Haven't heard homophobic or transphobic yet. Guess there's room for fpot to grow.
fpot
Posts: 26223
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

So I guess this is the part where Trump apologises for the stock market after helping himself to all the praise.

All good though. Got a trillion dollar loan coming in to finance the stimulus package tax cut.
PornoPete
Posts: 3017
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

ignore
[ig-nawr, -nohr]
verb (used with object), ig·nored, ig·nor·ing.

to refrain from noticing or recognizing: to ignore insulting remarks.


Yep a correction after a straight year of gains is the final nail in trumps coffin.
infi
Posts: 23971
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

4% US and 2.5% Aus is a blip. It's nothing. Complaining about this when you have been making 30% for the last year is idiotic.

I've been killing it shorting the AUD. Keep on going Donald, you are building a better America.
Vash
Posts: 5717
Location:

He even took his pete script off. f*** you're funny fpot. By Pete script you mean reading everything I write and crying.


Except multiple people use this script specifically for your posts. It's a shame it doesn't work on my browser. The lack of self awareness is incredible.

PornoPete can't accept the truth because he is completely invested in trump being the messiah


Works both ways.
PornoPete
Posts: 3018
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

If you say so Vash. What browser do you use?
paveway
Posts: 21485
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Do you guys understand you just say the same thing at each other

It's pretty funny
Nmag
Posts: 901
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Even hippies love Donald.



Peace and love.https://www.worldwidehippies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Hippies.jpg
PornoPete
Posts: 3019
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Do you guys understand you just say the same thing at each other


I know. but it's not like there is much else to talk about, and reading the s*** that comes out of vash is a source of entertainment.
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2184
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

https://i.imgur.com/LLkxJkv_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&amp;shape=thumb&amp;fidelity=medium

So much winning.
Vash
Posts: 5718
Location:



So much winning.


It's fake. But believable.
fpot
Posts: 26224
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Quick, we need a distraction!
Raven
Posts: 9566
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Let's just knock this on the head early, that tweet is fake, and the guy who first disseminated has even commented on how he never expected people to be so stupid as to believe it and spread it so far and wide.
Vash
Posts: 5719
Location:

Let's just knock this on the head early, that tweet is fake, and the guy who first disseminated has even commented on how he never expected people to be so stupid as to believe it and spread it so far and wide.


It's not that stupid. Trump often contradicts himself with many of his previous tweets. Theres a whole sub dedicated to this called Trump criticizes Trump.
So thats why so many people believed it was real.
Nmag
Posts: 902
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Everyone knows he talks allot of crap. Most politicians do. If you spend energy hating on this guy, well.... he was voted in, and is supported. He might come across like a d*******, but the people want some of the things he offered. It's pretty pointless, and subscribing to far-anything propaganda will further fuel this desire to express your anger outwards. The media sensationalise things, and if we seek sensationalised content that supports our belief we will find it. But it's not a very objective way to collect information. So the spiral continues. It's self radicalisation... it's also amusing but sad at the same time. I got at least 1 friend blocked on FB for the last couple years cause he posts extreme right wing stuff.. like it's just annoying after a while.. even though I tend to favour that politically, it's kind of obsessive. Another guy is sharing all this Aussie nationalistic stuff, some of it is funny, but he is exhibiting issues I recon. It's unhealthy.
fpot
Posts: 26226
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

The Trump is [thing] but that's okay because other politicians are also sometimes [thing] doesn't hold much water anymore I reckon because Donald Trump is an extraordinary case. It's rare because if he were a regular Joe he'd be that weird guy at work who claims he used to be in the SAS all deep cover-like. He's rich though and everyone wants a piece of that action. Just make sure there appears to be something in it for him and cash in.

I find it interesting that someone who will go out of his way to hate on something as innocuous as the Greens would give his sagely life advice on how to beat the Donald Trump blues. Why don't you tell us some more about childfree mothers?
Nmag
Posts: 903
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Interesting.. well obviously you don't get it. Rather than attack an individual, on-and-on, I explain my political belief. Do you get it? I see enough memes about the leader of the greens and leader of labor, but i really don't get sucked into that personal hate thing. I think it's stupid. I'm above it. Does this makes sense? or do you need it explained again in some other way? I understand that Trump comes across like a d*******, however they voted him in.. and form what I understand, you don't even f'n live there. so who gives a crap?

It's clearly TDS, it's ok, it's very common.

Some of the left carried on about Trump being divisive and using 'hate'... well... look around.
fpot
Posts: 26227
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

The calm in all ways being of logical perfection who never gets sucked into arguments and is above it all yet defends the most indefensible of s*** and holds bizarrely contradicting viewpoints to support their argument of the day is hardly a mysterious character and is played out to death. That's why I said you should go back to your childfree mothers deranged self. You know, vulcanism, phoney pictures of university degrees, that sort of thing. It's more you.
PornoPete
Posts: 3020
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

It really is awesome watching someone who is committed to trump being evil deal with trump being regular.

Fpot is simply in capable of arguing a point. He must always resort to personal attacks typically on issues he thinks are emotionally charged.

So another memo by house committee members which the FBI had a chance to redact has been released.

The FBI asked the court to believe information based on Steele's credibility after it was known he lied to the FBI. They also didn't mention it was paid for by the DNC and the Hillary Campaign, but mentioned the information is vaguely political.

the democratic memo is going to have to release some remarkable information for the Nunes memo to have been incorrect.

link

The FBI cited Steele's credibility for a renewal after they had sacked him for talking to the press (which he told them he didn't do).
infi
Posts: 23972
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

He must always resort to personal attacks typically on issues he thinks are emotionally charged.


This is literally the number one technique of community organisers and political activists in Saul Alinsky's book, Rules for Radicals. It's the catch all "cry racist" technique. Completely emotional and irrational.
fpot
Posts: 26228
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Yeah but... you do too. It's just you're a half-wit and when you try to attack someone it comes off really lame.

So anything to back up your conspiracy theory yet apart from the look on peoples faces. Perhaps you've discovered the secret handshake, or found a decoder ring? I mean I'd hate to accuse you of believing something so sensational based off a few twitter posts that weren't even made by a human. That would be emotional and irrational I reckon.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39459
Location: Other International

Completely emotional and irrational.
bhahaah meanwhile the current POTUS is known for his level-headed and polite comments that demonstrate a level of maturity and statesmanship beyond that of his predecessors like JFK
infi
Posts: 23973
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

some people like military parades and some don't. i guess you don't like fireworks or christmas either.
fpot
Posts: 26229
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

It's like strawman arguments are a bodily function for you.
Spook
Posts: 40982
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
i dont like fireworks or christmas.

they are both a huge waste of money.
infi
Posts: 23974
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

i sometimes think spook is a mark zuckerberg-like AI.
PornoPete
Posts: 3021
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

bhahaah meanwhile the current POTUS is known for his level-headed and polite comments that demonstrate a level of maturity and statesmanship beyond that of his predecessors like JFK


There is no more reliable guide to the effectiveness of a president than their position on military parades.

Pretty sure there is a reference to judge based on parade policy in the prince.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39460
Location: Other International

some people like military parades and some don't. i guess you don't like fireworks or christmas either.
OR PUPPIES OR APPLE PIE. I am practically unamerican!
PornoPete
Posts: 3022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

apropos of nothing/whining about a military parade
infi
Posts: 23975
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

it's paywalled so you may wish to quote the relevant section.
PornoPete
Posts: 3023
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

just google the title. but here is the nub anyway

Mr Trump’s antics are a comfort blanket to the cognitive elites. He validates our moral superiority. Yet he eats away at it too. Somewhere in our bourgeois subconscious is the realisation that Mr Trump is no accident. He holds up a cracked mirror to our illusions. When we mock him, he draws strength. When he provokes, we stumble. Yet we cannot help ourselves. He is deeply outrageous.

Therein lies our deepest secret. We need Mr Trump just as he needs us. It is a ghastly symbiosis. Without Mr Trump, there would be no distraction. We might be forced to examine whether we live up to our own values. Do we love the highly educated? Do they deserve by virtue of credentials to be celebrated? Or should we revisit what we mean by a fair society? Answers sought by email or Twitter — but in correct English if you please.


So I find no small irony in drawing attention to trumps supposed jingoism while quoting JFK saying confidence is silent.
infi
Posts: 23976
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Greg Sheridan writes in a similar vein in the Australian:

You’ve got to admire Donald Trump’s genius for driving his opponents nuts.

A big military parade is a perfect move for Trump.

It will enrage liberal Democrats who will hate not only the idea that it might see Trump bask in some reflected military glory, but who will associate the very idea of such a parade with nationalism, xenophobia, racism, sexism, militarism etc.

But if that kind of critique becomes the predominant response from the Democrats, they will alienate themselves from the majority of the American public, who love their soldiers even more than we Australians love our soldiers.
PornoPete
Posts: 3024
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

genius isn't the right word.

I don't think he does it intentionally, he just does stuff and happens to be extremely good at hurting progressive sensibilities. The unhinged response takes care of itself. or

confidence is silient
-JKF

-Trog
fpot
Posts: 26231
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

It's the liberals fault that rednecks will confuse their apprehension of a rogue president's obvious distraction ploy via the use of a giant penis compensatory military parade with hating OUR TROOPS! GAWD BLESS EM
PornoPete
Posts: 3025
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

It's the liberals fault that rednecks will confuse their apprehension of a rogue president's obvious distraction ploy via the use of a giant penis compensatory military parade with hating OUR TROOPS! GAWD BLESS EM


Distraction from what?

This type of response is exactly the topic of discussion. The unwashed masses will be distracted from wbat? A president doing pretty well what he said he would do? The horror.

For some so concerned about the ease of distracting "rednecks", you'd think fpot would have detailed policy rebuttals.

Yeah not so much. He's never posted about anything other than the sensational distractions.

For example he post that Nazis marched a second time in Charlottesville. But failed to mention 40 Nazis marched.

The concern about Nazis coming out of the woodwork is a distraction. Fpot bought it hook line and sinker.
Nmag
Posts: 904
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

go back to your childfree mothers deranged self. You know, vulcanism, phoney pictures of university degrees, that sort of thing. It's more you.


WTF are you on about?

Childfree mothers?

My stance on breeding humans, is that there should be prerequisites to reduce criminals and other lowlife parasites breeding. Instead we have a model where government encourages losers to breed more parasite losers.

oh and:

https://i.imgur.com/m5jAnyE.jpg
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39462
Location: Other International

You’ve got to admire Donald Trump’s genius for driving his opponents nuts.

A big military parade is a perfect move for Trump.
It should not be considered an achievement for a politician to "drive his opponents nuts".

The fact that a journalist in a mainstream newspaper would write this is an astonishing reminder that our media does not care about news - they care about controversy. They can sit back and post every dumb thing any politician does now in as divisive a way possible, simply because they know it will drive traffic to their websites.

We are in a unique time in the world where - I think, and hope - it is the only possible window for someone like Trump to be in power because they are able to gain support through the vast amounts of energy that is sparking off the above process. But I think it will gradually fade because we'll find a better way to do "the news" and people will realise that you can't make informed decisions based solely on bursts of temporary outrage based on whatever weird thing happened in the last news cycle.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39463
Location: Other International

Remember, if you're disagreeing with someone these days, it means you are offended and you should simply stop being offended
Vash
Posts: 5720
Location:

It should not be considered an achievement for a politician to "drive his opponents nuts".


Agreed. As much as these Trumpites say how deranged everyone is, all they need to look at is how they behaved during the Obama years. Emotional & Irrational.
Most of the criticism of Trump isn't irrational, it's logical.
Nmag
Posts: 905
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

I don't think everyone is deranged, but it's clear people who are not affected, can develop the condition. Was I hating on Obama during his term? I don't think so, but TDS can inhibit judgement and objectivity, so I fully understand if that is what you perceive, looking back with biased hindsight.
PornoPete
Posts: 3026
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

It should not be considered an achievement for a politician to "drive his opponents nuts".

The fact that a journalist in a mainstream newspaper would write this is an astonishing reminder that our media does not care about news - they care about controversy. They can sit back and post every dumb thing any politician does now in as divisive a way possible, simply because they know it will drive traffic to their websites.


Mr Sheridan appears to be drawing attention to trumps ability to make his political opponents ineffective by driving them nuts.

For example, this ridiculous discussion about a military parade. You might find a parade vulgar, and I wouldn't disagree. But that isn't a particularly good reason not to have it, and it certainly doesn't constitute evidence of runaway authoritarianism either.

Nor is it divisive to observe the highly predictable overreaction is political useful for Trump.
infi
Posts: 23977
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The fact that a journalist in a mainstream newspaper would write this is an astonishing reminder that our media does not care about news - they care about controversy. They can sit back and post every dumb thing any politician does now in as divisive a way possible, simply because they know it will drive traffic to their websites.


This primarily is a direct pitch to his voter base. Irritating liberals is just a bonus. It's wedge politics in a nutshell.

Newspapers have always cared about headlines, they are in business to sell papers/clicks. The mainstream media is solely focused on generating outrage and it is not about to stop any time soon.
Vash
Posts: 5721
Location:

Was I hating on Obama during his term?


I'm more referring to Republican voters.

Nor is it divisive to observe the highly predictable overreaction is political useful for Trump.


Explain how its politically useful when his polls don't indicate as such? And i don't see how its making the opposing side politically ineffective by 'driving them nuts'
He controls both congress & the house.

There's plenty of irrationality about Trump's beliefs, and who knows if that will eventuate to policy. That's why people need to take what he says seriously.
PornoPete
Posts: 3027
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Explain how its politically useful when his polls don't indicate as such? And i don't see how its making the opposing side politically ineffective by 'driving them nuts'
He controls both congress & the house.


His polls continue to improve vash. You can tell because the line labelled approve is going up.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39464
Location: Other International

Newspapers have always cared about headlines, they are in business to sell papers/clicks.
Papers sold before because people depended on them as a source of information to make informed decisions. They have lost this position to the Internet - their business model has now switched almost exclusively to outrage, which they can do because the new source of revenue for them is clicks.
The mainstream media is solely focused on generating outrage and it is not about to stop any time soon.
I completely agree - for some definitions of "soon" :) There are a few factors that I think are working against them over the long term and hopefully journalists will soon be able to get back to writing news stories instead of clickbait.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39465
Location: Other International

I'm reluctant to keep talking about Trump because f*** me really are we still talking about this f***ing a******? But as usual I'm stunned beyond belief by the way even Australian Trump fanboys can overcome their cognitive dissonance about him enough to praise him even when he mimics the exact kind of tinpot f***wit dictator that they're cheering him for badmouthing on Twitter in a way that demonstrates his total lack of statesmanship.

I can only assume that journalist in The Australian, like almost everyone else I've communicated with in Australia that has a pro-Trump attitude, has never actually spoken to an American about him outside of the Internet (i.e., statistically you were probably speaking to a Russian troll :).

I asked my American aunt (one of my favourite people in the entire world, just to get my bias disclaimed up-front) if she had any thoughts on the parade thing; I was particularly interested because a) she's an ex-US Army nurse, stationed in Germany during the Cold War (which she refers to as 'pleasant') b) her dad flew fighter planes in combat missions over the Pacific in WW2 c) her brother is a Vietnam vet. I told her I was talking to some Trump fanboys about the parade and I was interested in her opinion as a veteran; I was pretty sure I knew what she was going to say but sometimes her family have surprised me with their somewhat gung-ho attitude because of their military service so I did think there was a (tiny) chance that there might be some support for a parade.

I understand that posting anecdata is not representative of much but given that at least some people on here know me as a Real Actual Human Being, and as one too f***ing boring to actually make stuff up, I thought at least some people might find her response (a Real Actual American Human Being) interesting, just so we're not reading the same s*** from talking heads on Twitter:
1. There are Trump Fanboys in Australia? Please say it isn't so.
2. This has nothing to do with the troops. In fact it's work for them and costs money that should be spent on housing, healthcare, obviously everything else. For vets.
3. Cadet bone spurs had his chance for military parades but he chose to dodge the military. So he can go f*** himself.
4. I very rarely play the veteran card because I was not a combat veteran and had very pleasant duty, but whenever there is any kind of response elicited on this point, I always throw in my ex Army Nurse credentials as I'm explaining how horrifying this is. He is a complete and total f***tard and I'm afraid our November midterms may be our only chance to turn things around. Hence I will be out canvassing in Red Land over the weekend. Not my favorite thing to do, but it's about registering voters. I enjoyed my time in Iowa but there were some dicey moments, so I don't really look forward to this but I feel like it might be our last chance.
PornoPete
Posts: 3028
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

But as usual I'm stunned beyond belief by the way even Australian Trump fanboys can overcome their cognitive dissonance about him enough to praise him even when he mimics the exact kind of tinpot f***wit dictator that they're cheering him for badmouthing on Twitter in a way that demonstrates his total lack of statesmanship.

There's those words cognitive dissonance again.

But let's step through the post.


I can only assume that journalist in The Australian, like almost everyone else I've communicated with in Australia that has a pro-Trump attitude, has never actually spoken to an American about him outside of the Internet (i.e., statistically you were probably speaking to a Russian troll).


The journalist in question is Greg Sheridan. He has been the foreign affairs editor of the Australian since 1992. his wiki page.

He cut his journalistic chops with Kerry O'Brien.

He, in forming his opinion of the military parade, as a Foreign Affairs editor of over 26 years experience, only spoke with internet talking heads who were statistically likely to be Russian trolls.

But your aunt says trumps a f***tard.

The only people who brought up the parade were trump haters.

Those words hey. Cognitive dissonance.
fpot
Posts: 26232
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

I wish I had some anecdotal stories to tell about Trump but I don't. Even some people I know who speak favourably about One Nation seem to despise him. Now either real trump boys are a rarity or people feel compelled to keep their support quiet because to be loud about it would immediately label them dumb as s***.

I personally don't subscribe to the idea that negative press and criticism make trump stronger. It's true, the negativity could have bolstered his supporters around election time in a f*** the establishment way, but who knew just how bad it could be? I feel that if people stop talking about him his extraordinary actions could become ordinary.
infi
Posts: 23978
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, American Democrat politics has reached the point where the party seeking to enforce immigration laws passed by Congress (Republicans) are painted as the a******s, and the party literally encouraging illegal immigration (I s*** you not Nancy Pelosi thanked illegals for arriving) are painted as the heroes, condoning actual refusal of States to cooperate with Federal immigration laws.

Liberal politics in America has become insane. The Australian political discourse is mundanely centrist compared to the US. I imagine Greg Sheridan's head is spinning with the US political position. It is as spectacular as a WWF Cable special. The personalities are huge and issues are amplified at every opportunity. The environment is completely partisan. Every single issue.

Your aunt may dislike Trump but if she votes for the Democrats she is voting for an extreme-left wing party which is regressing the rules of law and more interested in the rights of illegal immigrants over the interests of American citizens. Really if you don't want to vote Republican/Trump at the moment (and there should be a viable choice) the alternative is a party of anarchists.

and remember, if someone disagrees with you, they are probably a bot.
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18525
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I don't think you guys quite understand what cognitive dissonance is, as it has been misused several times in the recent few pages.
PornoPete
Posts: 3029
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I don't think you guys quite understand what cognitive dissonance is, as it has been misused several times in the recent few pages.


Its probably never been used correctly in this thread as a psychological term.

Trog appears to use it as a shorthand for when infi (specifically infi) appears to hold a hypocritical position.

It also gets used as a shorthand for someone holding irreconcilable views to justify their own beliefs. And by that standard trogs comments qualify in my view.

The idea that a foreign affairs reporter who has been doing that job since the Vietnam war is informed by Twitter bots and has spoken with no actual Americans, is frankly so mental the only reason I can think you'd say it is because you're so desperate to paint an innocuous event as the rise of Hitler, sober analysis must be dismissed as part of Russia stole the election.

Chuck Schumer of democratic leadership fame called for a military parade in 2014. Was he
mimics the exact kind of tinpot f***wit dictator that they're cheering him for badmouthing on Twitter in a way that demonstrates his total lack of statesmanship.


Or did everyone get that right when nobody thought anything of it?

It's one or other for both of them. The cognitive dissonance is in holding that someone who Trog obviously doesn't know must be more ignorant than him, because he doesn't hold a view trog agrees with, while ignoring the fact it's the guy's job to be more informed than trog on this specific topic (ie foreign affairs).
infi
Posts: 23979
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

yeah cos only tinpot f***wit dictators have military parade. on the scale of retarded comments, that one is up there.

and the constant twitter bot references is laughable.
Dazzagc
Posts: 1561
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland


Wayne Swan GOOOOOOEEEESS!!!

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/02/10/09/28/former-treasurer-wayne-swan-to-bow-out?ocid=Social-9NewsGC


fpot
Posts: 26233
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

yeah cos only tinpot f***wit dictators have military parade. on the scale of retarded comments, that one is up there.
I guess you have to factor in the timing and surrounding circumstances. The ongoing criminal investigation into the president of the united states, the disastrous attempt at interference with that joke of a memo, the repeated shut downs of the government, the record low approval ratings, the negative stock market activity. I could go on because it's really fun but I won't.

Here's a question about twitter bots - have you ever looked into it yourself? Because it's a provable claim that there is a strong contingent of support for trump and it's coming from twitter bots of a Russian origin. It's really easy to find actually. Go and have a look yourself and if you can't come up with anything I'll help you.

edit: oh I follow a bunch on twitter and you pretty much dance to their tune. You use their arguments and you mimic the terms they use. Like a good little doggy.

edit2: for example, the twitter bot excuse for trump not declassifying the democrat memo is because the democrats deliberately placed sensitive information in it so they'd know it wouldn't be released to manufacture a political scandal. And you'd be believing this right?
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18526
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Part of the definition of Cognitive Dissonance includes a distinct feeling of mental and even physical discomfort due to these conflicting thoughts.

Once a person 'solves' that conflict through whatever means, there is no-longer discomfort and thus no cognitive dissonance. Most people solve it by avoidance, choosing to remain ignorant, elimination and/or distortion of perception.

So by definition, a person suffering from cognitive dissonance (and feeling the discomfort that comes with it) is, at that time at least, aware of the conflicting thoughts and/or beliefs.

People really don't like that discomfort, so trying to get a person to regain awareness of any conflicts they hold is often met with resistance, the force of that resistance reflects the strength of the discomfort from the internal conflict.
Thus it is often wasted effort to try logically convince people of various factors involved in the conflict, the method to 'solve' it adapts. As evident by this continuing threat that gets absolutely nowhere.
Every now and then, a person seemingly by sheer luck, gains a solution that is consistent with their beliefs and there is no longer any conflict at all.



Some unfortunate souls are acutely aware of these conflicting thoughts/beliefs and cannot reliably 'solve' it to the point of ceasing the discomfort for any reasonable length of time and the conflict is carried almost constantly from one to the next.

So that is a little lesson on cognitive dissonance for everyone, hooray for learning!
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39466
Location: Other International

I don't think you guys quite understand what cognitive dissonance is, as it has been misused several times in the recent few pages.
I might have been guilty of it once or twice but above I meant it in the sense that normally these people would be making Rocket Man jokes about NK waving their dick around with their parades laughing at their inept display of military superiority etc etc - but as soon as Trump suggests it, it's suddenly a great display of statesmanship and military might and blahblahblah. These are two conflicting points of view that they have to maintain
Some unfortunate souls are acutely aware of these conflicting thoughts/beliefs and cannot reliably 'solve' it to the point of ceasing the discomfort for any reasonable length of time and the conflict is carried almost constantly from one to the next.
This is how I feel all the time!! Striving for consistency in all things is hard without compromise.
Insom
Posts: 4644
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

He might come across like a d*******, but the people want some of the things he offered.

you have to be kidding me, absolutely everyone who voted for this unreconstructed asshat needs to take a good long look at themselves

or, maybe not? who cares, the sun is going to explode and consume us all relatively soon anyway
PornoPete
Posts: 3030
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Thanks Toll

I meant it in the sense that normally these people would be making Rocket Man jokes about NK waving their dick around with their parades laughing at their inept display of military superiority etc etc - but as soon as Trump suggests it, it's suddenly a great display of statesmanship and military might and blahblahblah.


How in the name of all that's holy did you reach that conclusion based on Sheridan's quote or literally anything anyone's said on this forum in respect of the military parade.
infi
Posts: 23981
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

oh I follow a bunch on twitter and you pretty much dance to their tune. You use their arguments and you mimic the terms they use. Like a good little doggy.


So are they bots then or just pro-trump humans?
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7811
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
gg Shorten and Labor

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/bill-shorten-has-peaked--and-malcolm-turnbull-has-him-in-his-sights-20180208-h0vrnm.html
fpot
Posts: 26234
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Obviously there are both. If you haven't already, go to twitter and follow a few well followed pro-trump twitters that you're sure are human. I won't mention names but they should be really easy to find. You'll be immediately swarmed by bots asking to be followed.

Or just type russian twitter bot influence or variant into google to save yourself asking stupid questions. Beware of the numerous articles detailing a Russian campaign to use bot accounts on social media networks to influence people. They're part of an FBI/CNN conspiracy to bring down the president of the USA so war-criminal Clinton can be sworn in
Nmag
Posts: 906
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Lets talk about Trump some more.
PornoPete
Posts: 3031
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Or just type russian twitter bot influence or variant into google to save yourself asking stupid questions. Beware of the numerous articles detailing a Russian campaign to use bot accounts on social media networks to influence people.


The links in that list are all very light of detail and seem to forget one brand of Twitter bit was black lives matter bots. I guess if BLM arguments turn up on a Russian bots feed we can safely ignore anything BLM say.

But here is the key word in that paragraph. influence. Note how it doesn't start with c.

So all fpot is asking you to believe is that Trump and Putin got on the phone had a good old chat about how to steal the election and what they arrived at was paying a bunch of Cypriot nerds to retweet black lives matter. On a platform the key demographic doesn't appear to use.

So how about Adam Schiff hey. He is now claiming Nunes secretly changed his memo to include sensitive material.

Guess when trump says it contains sensitive material he isn't lying. The guy who wrote is now saying it contains sensitive material.

We already know the content of the memo anyway. It's going to go something like this.

Chris Steele had a good record of providing information. Based on that the FBI didn't attempt to verify his claims.

Chris Steele is an expert on Russian crime. Therefore relying on his word instead of verifying his claims wasn't naughty.

I don't expect fpot to be able to understand the hearsay rule or the expert opinion rule. He is a little slow after all and the hearsay rule is acknowledged to be difficult to properly understand. Nor do I expect him to place significance on the fact that to get a FISA warrant on a US national you have to show both the person is likely to be a foreign agent AND they are likely committing a crime. Carter page has never been charged.

In fact the only charges to have been brought have been process charges.
Phooks
Posts: 3355
Location: Brisbane, Queensland


"Gays are destroying marriage" Joyce tells pregnant mistress while watching an episode of Channel 9's Married at First Sight.

http://www.chaser.com.au/national/gays-are-destryoing-marriage-joyce-tells-pregnant-mistress/


Phooks
Posts: 3356
Location: Brisbane, Queensland


Meanwhile, as Trump holds military rallies;

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/what-are-the-biggest-threats-to-australia-s-peace-and-security

Dr Malcolm Davis from Canberra think tank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute:
The unpredictability of the Trump administration itself offers huge challenges for Australia, he said.
Danielle Cave, a senior analyst at the International Cyber Policy Centre in Canberra, said covert cyber-enabled influence campaigns are a major new threat to Australia and other liberal western democracies, particularly during elections.

"We saw the 2016 US election, Russia ran a really sophisticated cyber interference operation," she said. "There has been similar issues coming up in Brexit and a variety of European nations. That's going to be a really big issue going forward," citing China's covert political influence operations which have received attention recently in Taiwan and Australia



Boy I'm glad trumpets like infi voted in their nationalistic psychopath to threaten nuclear war on twitter and downplay the cybersecurity threats of Russia and China

But hey foreign aid programme inefficiencies are the real evil here right troggles?


Phooks
Posts: 3357
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Better yet, let's blame foreign aid itself and the NGO sector, rather than say, policy conflicts where we both train workers through foreign development at the same time as offering incentives and making restrictive policies biased towards skilled immigration

'But they're just s***hole countries! No I'm not racist!'
PornoPete
Posts: 3032
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

"Gays are destroying marriage" Joyce tells pregnant mistress while watching an episode of Channel 9's Married at First Sight.


Nothing says phooks doesn't hate gay people like reposting a vicious antigay screed from a satirical antigay website.

Why do you hate gay people so much phooks?
infi
Posts: 23982
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Is it a full moon? Phooks' monthly rant has arrived. Alleging Trump doesn't care about cybersecurity when as far as I know he has maintained all US goverrnment cyber-security efforts.

Foreign aid is a means of taking money from poor people in rich countries to give to rich people in poor countries. It benefits corrupt governments and local supplier rent-seekers. It's predictable that you support such liberal retardation.

Thanks for raising NGOs, we have all heasrd about Oxfam and their use of prostitutes in Haiti - they have taken engaging in local commerce to grow the economy too far.

See ya next month ya crazy bastard.

Scandal the tip of the iceberg. What a nice industry.
fpot
Posts: 26235
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Yeah posting an expert opinion on cyber security is so crazy! I guess when you believe conspiracy theories that no expert with a shred of credibility will lend any credence to it is. Kind of reminds me of the time trump retweeted a twitter bot. We're in good hands people!

And what's an infi post without a 'a thing did something bad once. That means all things even if they're different are also bad'. See also, labour unions.

Still nothing on the conspiracy theory except for the (lol) looks on peoples faces as they were all being bulls***ted to at the SOTU?
infi
Posts: 23983
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The article Phooks posted doesnt even say anything about Trump. It's a beautiful piece of flim-flam. It referenced global uncertainty.

Still nothing on Trump and Russia. Fpot and the whole fake news industry are hoping and praying something will come up, like watching the ball bounce around the roulette table. Just hoping... and praying.... SAD.
fpot
Posts: 26236
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Dude my cards are on the table. I admit that all there is is circumstantial evidence at this stage. I want the investigation to continue to the end without interference and for all parties involved to cooperate as much as possible while still having their constitutional rights upheld. You want it interfered with and halted because you're scared that one day you'll have to admit you supported, nay, worshipped, a bona fide fascist dictator. Because if it eventually comes out that trump colluded with Russia or even that Russia influenced the election to the extent that the election result was illegitimate that's what you've done. Not that you'll admit it even then, it will still be some kind of conspiracy but somewhere in that peppercorn of a heart and peanut of a brain you'll know.

edit: I think it is only fair to say that if I was forced to make a bet I'd bet that Russia did interfere with the election, that trump knew about it but took nil or little part in it. Pretty standard procedure in a criminal organisation. Keep the guy at the top as clean as possible.
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18527
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Foreign aid is a means of taking money from poor people in rich countries to give to rich people in poor countries. It benefits corrupt governments and local supplier rent-seekers. It's predictable that you support such liberal retardation.


Whilst part of what you say is probably true the other part is that at least some of that aid does get to people in need. That is infinitely better than nothing at all.
So if the choice is inefficient, wasteful aid or no aid at all ... well f***, inefficient it is.
You may be annoyed that an invisible part of your tax, an amount that has a barely perceptible impact on your lifestyle and well being is being used to significantly enhance someone else's.

That is what you are essentially saying.
PornoPete
Posts: 3033
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I think it is only fair to say that if I was forced to make a bet I'd bet that Russia did interfere with the election, that trump knew about it but took nil or little part in it. Pretty standard procedure in a criminal organisation. Keep the guy at the top as clean as possible.


Trump having no involvement at all proves his guilt. Fpot likes to accuse infi of being a 9/11 truther but says s*** like that?

TDS has completely consumed this specimen. Please fetch us a new one
Phooks
Posts: 3358
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Is it a full moon? Phooks' monthly rant has arrived.


Witness my words and despair, ye naught but mighty

So what about trumps nuclear threats on twitter infi? I noticed you skipped over that part
Viper119
Posts: 3362
Location: Other International

The over hyped frenzy around the supposed, and seemingly sorely lacking in reality, Russia collusion was a big mistake, still, Trump kind of deserves it for the whole birther thing against Obama. Karma brah!
PornoPete
Posts: 3034
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Trump kind of deserves it for the whole birther thing against Obama.


Perhaps but is that the standard multiple papers of record claim to hold for themselves? Peddlers of baseless conspiracy? They don't get to whinge about trumps attacks on their credibility and push s*** like this for over a year.
infi
Posts: 23984
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The grassley-graham memo vindicates the core claim of the nunes memo. It was written a month before the nunes memo so it is not possible it was written as a post-hoc justification.

It refers Chris Steele to the DOJ for prosecution for lying to the FBI and that the FBI must have known this while seeking further FISA renewals.

It confirms that the Steele Dossier was central to establishing probable cause.

It confirms the material in the Steele Dossier was accepted on by the court on the strength of the FBI vouching for Steele's credibility.

It confirms the FBI didn't inform the court, in straightforward violation of their duty of candour precisely because the opposing party doesn't get a chance to review the claims, that the opposing presidential campaign paid for the dossier.

It confirms the FBI vouched for Steele's credibility in the fourth renewal after they had sacked him for leaking to the press. Meaning after 4 warrants of 90 days, they had obtained no stand-alone evidence and were still relying on Steele's credibility.

The Jerry Nadler memo does not rebut a single one of these claims, and together they constitute a serious abuse of FISC process.

After a year of investigation, two people have been charged with lying to the FBI but no other crimes. In Flynn's case, he didn't do anything illegal at all except lie to the FBI that he'd done it.

If you don't have credible rebuttals for * every one* of the things verified by the grassley-graham memo, it is you who are living in conspiracy land.

But yeah, i'm just peddling wild conspiracies.

#RussiaCollusion is a nothing-burger. As CNN producers secretly admitted on hidden camera. Washington is rotten to the core.

So what about trumps nuclear threats on twitter infi? I noticed you skipped over that part


had the world fallen in a heap yet? nah. just more chicken little. THE SKY IS FALLING. Oh and NK and America are now open to talks. Wow would you look at that. 4dchess at its best.
Nmag
Posts: 907
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

One of my kids told me the teacher at school said "Our teacher said if you like trees you should vote for the greens". I explained.. "We all like trees. I like trees and just about all of our politicians would like trees." So then she asks "So why did she say vote greens if you like trees?".. And I said "Cause she's been brainwashed." "What's brainwashing dad"... "well it's forced learning through repetition generally. Some people are more susceptible to it than others".

It's easy to brainwash when you polarise things into good and evil, using basic instincts like guilt, love, hate, anger. In fact hate and anger are far more primitive feels. In anger, the mind is not functioning at it's potential.

Take the TDS test
fpot
Posts: 26238
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Another totally true story from NMag. Thanks mate!

infi: is this the memo you're talking about?

found the right one
fpot
Posts: 26239
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Found a link to the memo and an anaylsis of it here. I read both.

Your above claims all appear to be true. The analysis I read indicates some contradictions between the GG and N memo but I guess at this stage it is unknown if they're of any consequence.

None of it proves that Steele fabricated anything though. Certain elements of the dossier have been confirmed publically. In a battle of who is more credible it would take an incredible (teehee) person to lose to trump or anyone who works for him.

The main thing I don't get - why would the FBI put themselves on the line like this? What have they got to gain from staking their entire reputation and organisation on discredting trump? To be honest, I always thought the FBI were the friend of right-leaning governments but I could be completely wrong on that one. A claim could be made that certain key people in the organisation were bribed but where's the evidence for that?

So at this stage we have circumstantial evidence and people lying to the FBI on both sides. I find it much more plausible that trump, a man of zero credibility, would engage or knowingly receive benefit from fraudulent activities of this rather extreme nature. I find it highly implausible that the FBI would all of a sudden drop its standards and risk everything to keep trump out of office. What's your explanation for that, by the way? That also applies to Steele and Fusion GPS. What do they have to benefit from all this? In the end, researching trump was just another job for them. Why all of a sudden are they engaging in wholesale fraud?

Thanks for finally posting something substantial though [/notsarcasm]
PornoPete
Posts: 3035
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

None of it proves that Steele fabricated anything though. Certain elements of the dossier have been confirmed publically. In a battle of who is more credible it would take an incredible (teehee) person to lose to trump or anyone who works for him.


Someone doesn't understand the hearsay rule.

It's not a battle of who's more credible. Facts can't be established by hearsay. Steele has admitted in UK litigation the content of the memo were unverified.

The suspect doesn't have to prove allegations aren't true. That is a literal inversion of the justice system.

If the FBI can't show the allegations are true the FBI has nothing.

Put simply the FBI relying on an informant's credibility for anything the informant didn't witness in person is an abuse of process

Failing to inform the court that you've sacked him for leaking and lying about it, is a scandal.

Failing to inform the court that the lying non-witness is on the employ of the opposite campaign is nothing short of outrageous.

Trump s credibility has nothing to do with anything.

But again this all legal guff which is probably a bit beyond fpot.


So at this stage we have circumstantial evidence and people lying to the FBI on both sides.


Yeah only one sides lies are used to authorise the FBI spying on a presidential campaign. One these things is not like the other.
fpot
Posts: 26240
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

In other news, trump's lawyer paid a porn star $130000 for something that totally wasn't hush money and there has been another mass shooting this time in Florida. I wonder if this time they'll start thinking about doing something about that?
Spook
Posts: 40985
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
nope!

more guns will always be the answer to more shootings.

if the teachers/students had more guns, they would have been able to stop this tragedy sooner!
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39470
Location: Other International

Can we talk about Barnaby for a while?!?!
paveway
Posts: 21489
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

would you bang his new missus? y/n

probably

if i was 50, definitley
Phooks
Posts: 3359
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Can we talk about Barnaby for a while?!?!


Sure. He's representative of a side of Australian politics which, for instance, continues to disregard the systemic and cultural effects of colonisation on our first peoples.

oh wait you meant the affair thing. yeah he's a c*** to his family as well I guess
Phooks
Posts: 3360
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

would you bang his new missus? y/n probably if i was 50, definitley


LOL!!!!!!!!
Phooks
Posts: 3361
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

So what about trumps nuclear threats on twitter infi? I noticed you skipped over that part

had the world fallen in a heap yet? nah. just more chicken little. THE SKY IS FALLING. Oh and NK and America are now open to talks. Wow would you look at that. 4dchess at its best.


You may find this shocking, but one of my mates has different opinion to you. After completing her bachelors in international relations, she did her phd on nuclear warfare and political strategy. But im sure she's wrong, and that you and trump know much better, and his tweet was a great '4d chess move' as you describe
Phooks
Posts: 3362
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The main thing I don't get - why would the FBI put themselves on the line like this? What have they got to gain from staking their entire reputation and organisation on discredting trump? To be honest, I always thought the FBI were the friend of right-leaning governments but I could be completely wrong on that one.


The intelligence community is not very fond of Trump, as a whole.

I would hazard that while most of them understand he's behaving pretty typically for a business executive, he really pissed off the FBI when he fired Comey. It was very unexpected for them and he had a good amount of respect internally.
infi
Posts: 23985
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

The main thing I don't get - why would the FBI put themselves on the line like this?


Firstly all the things I wrote have already been covered in this thread.

The Deep State does not like people who question its absolute authority. Trump prides himself on if anything being hjis own man, someone who will not just sign off on violation of individual rights (something Obama willingly did daily).

Tucker Carlson's show from today comprehensively outlines a range of Steele allegations which are unproven. The Dossier alleges Trump was a Russian asset cultivated for their use once he won the Presidency. It's laughable. The Dossier is a partisan document paid for by the DNC and then used by the FBI to support FISA warrants. Surely on any scale of ethics that is scandalous.

Mueller should be required to issued a prosecution immediately otherwise the whole thing should be shut down. It is a disgraceful abuse of process.

Can we talk about Barnaby for a while?!?!


I don't see what it has got to do with politics... Let the voters be the judge.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DV9qXBdU8AAvAH8.jpg:large
fpot
Posts: 26241
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

What is the 'deep state'? How has trump questioned the deep state's authority? Who is in charge of the deep state?

edit! whataboutisms! A new and fresh argument tactic from our trump loving friends.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39472
Location: Other International

hold on to your butts
infi
Posts: 23986
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Deep State are the multitude of federal unelected intelligence agencies that actually run national security policy regardless of the President in power (usually). Career boffins who see themselves as the country's actual Trustees. They have virtually no oversight, massive surveillance powers, and plentiful unchecked resources. A President would be foolish to fire a blatantly partisan Director. Ooops.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39473
Location: Other International

I don't see what it has got to do with politics... Let the voters be the judge.
Well the main thing (maybe the only thing) that seems to keep coming up is whether a) he used connections/pressure to get her multiple jobs b) whether tax payer dollars were involved in their relationship.

There is maybe also c) he was [allegedly] throwing down the family value card pretty hard during the SSM debate; hypocrisy by politicians is nothing new though so it kind of just glazes my eyes over, but if you're a conservative family loving t-wearing voter, you might care a little more.

a) and b) are pretty important but I really find it hard to believe someone in position was careless about money in this kind of situation (he was an accountant in his previous life, right?) so it might just all be a big beat-up
infi
Posts: 23987
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Well the main thing (maybe the only thing) that seems to keep coming up is whether a) he used connections/pressure to get her multiple jobs b) whether tax payer dollars were involved in their relationship.


agree, any proof of rorting will see him sacked from Cabinet.

hypocrisy by politicians is nothing new though


agree
fpot
Posts: 26242
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Okay, but how has trump questioned their authority? Also, who is in charge? Are you sure trump values the rights of the individual because I could bring up examples where he definitely doesn't.

edit: f***ed up the original post. Did it while cooking and it's hot as balls.
PornoPete
Posts: 3036
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

would you bang his new missus? y/n probably if i was 50, definitley



LOL!!!!!!!!


Oh look phooks is a raging misogynist aswell. Laughing about a woman being treated as a sex object. You might as well have killed her with such an antiwoman screed phooks.

So why do you hate women and gays so much phooks?
PornoPete
Posts: 3037
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Twitter bots have an almost unmeasurable effect on people's vote.

Gee good thing a special counsel was appointed to figure out how many useless Facebook ads Russia bought.

It's almost like 'Russia stealing the election' is a way of refusing to understand what happened in 2016.
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18528
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I don't know about you guys, but I prefer people who are honest and have moral and ethical integrity to be making major decisions about mine and my countries well being. Decisions that effect the health and wellbeing of millions.

I'm not sure why people are willing to turn a blind eye to obvious unethical and reprehensible behaviour. Remember the MP's have 'The Honourable' title in their name as a reminder of their position and what it means to be a leader of a nation.

Just think about how weird it is, that a Prime Minster of a 1st world country has to directly ban his most significant ministers from having questionable power-relations with staff members. That they are not able to exercise proper judgement and ethical behaviour to not do it without being directed not to...

Seriously, how does that not concern people?
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

"The way these two men are behaving, neither of them are fit today for the high office they currently hold," Mr Shorten said.


That sentence should probably be more like this:

"The way these two men are behaving, neither of them are fit today for the high office they currently hold, please excuse me whilst I sink a boot in their side. Perhaps my fitness for office should be questioned too," Mr Shorten said.
infi
Posts: 23988
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Shorten did the exact same thing (slept with another woman while married). Urgh, let it go.
paveway
Posts: 21490
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Shorten did the exact same thing (slept with another woman while married). Urgh, let it go.M


his quote wasn't a shot at liberal or labour
Nmag
Posts: 909
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Another totally true story from NMag. Thanks mate!


True story, and common story. In fact she also showed 2 youtube videos (unrated) to primary school children about animal cruelty and asking the kids afterwards to make a pledge on a website. Pledge had about 5 options, top one being "I'll never eat meat again". Kids had mixed reactions. Some parents were not happy. There were possible options for a class action.

She also provided the kids with a few more views from her ideologies. Kids came home with some questions about "Why is Trump bad?" etc.

Parents reacted. She no longer works there.

I think the Aboriginal guilt thing she put on the kids is probably in the curriculum.

My wife and I treated the kids for TDS and other common issues just in case they were affected. The normal calibration stuff... The kind of stuff that would make fpot lose it completely, and Vash to lose it even more.

Just another radicalised school teacher from our radicalisation factories.. the local universities. She probbaly went off on sick leave with a bad case of TDS... and she's not an American tax payer OR even an American voter... just like me, and you? and vash?. It can strike all over the world and is contagious.

It's a story about how being radicalised can have an adverse impact on an individuals life when they lose the ability to remain objective.. and maintain rational thought. TDS, serious stuff.. see your doctor if symptoms persist. It's possible the poor lady had a history of letting her emotions come in the way of clear logical thought.
fpot
Posts: 26243
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Yep totally true dude.

Imagine having a life so s*** and devoid of meaning that you'd need to constantly lie about it on an internet gaming forum. Dear god the horror.
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2185
Location: Sydney, New South Wales


http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/when-the-next-financial-crisis-hits-there-will-be-little-the-rba-can-do-about-it-20180215-p4z0f1.html

Reserve bank is out of levers to pull. Unless negative interest rates here too.

Of course, it should also be recognised that the GFC was itself essentially created by excess liquidity; Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan held US rates too low, for too long, causing a global quest for yield, resulting in a mountain of debt that was built on the securitisation and financial engineering of high risk sub-prime housing loans and other securities.


This bit is interesting, however the equity markets have been really good the last 2 years. Maybe that is why housing is cooling now.
Vash
Posts: 5722
Location:

Usual Nmag drivel


Sounds like the teacher was wise to educate kids on the impacts to the environment that meat production has. It's good to try to push our next generation to eat less meat.

It's unfortunate that morality & education of real world problems being pushed to kids is seen as radicalisation, but i guess thats the world we currently live in today with Trump as head of the USA.

I think the Aboriginal guilt thing she put on the kids is probably in the curriculum.


And he talks of rational thought...

There's a name for a symptom in mental illness when it comes to people who dont care to look at Trump's policies & thoughts, and the negative impact he is having on not only American society, but the world.
Apathy.
Nmag
Posts: 910
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

fpot thinks I'm making this stuff up. I've seen people at work with TDS blurt stuff out that's completely inappropriate... they are so deluded and brimming with hatred for Trump that they can't contain it in for a full shift.

Tell me about the negative impact Trump is having on Sydney NSW for example? I think our local governments have more impact on what goes on here than what rubbish Trump is tweeting.
PornoPete
Posts: 3038
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Mueller indicts 13 people for attempting to influence the campaign in favour of sanders and trump. They ran rallies in favour of trump and in favour of Clinton after the election. No American knowingly helped them. No indication they were in anyway successful in altering the outcome.

So not only is 'Russia stole the election' a way for people to refuse to deal with 2016. Its almost certainly a goal of the Russian attempt to influence the 2016 election.

Someone get a box of tissues and a DVD of dirty dancing for fpot. It's going to be a long weekend.
Tollaz0r!
Posts: 18530
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I'm not sure Nmag if you are retelling the same stories or if you are contentiously coming up against the sort of stuff you describe.

Are you sure you aren't projecting dude? I mean, more than the usual amount people do?


It's a story about how being radicalised can have an adverse impact on an individuals life when they lose the ability to remain objective.. and maintain rational thought. TDS, serious stuff.. see your doctor if symptoms persist. It's possible the poor lady had a history of letting her emotions come in the way of clear logical thought.


Emotion can't be separated out from rational thought, our brains just don't work that way. You can delude yourself to pretend it has, but it is still there. Are you sure you are not overcompensating, ironically allowing your emotions to come in the way of what feels like clear logical thought?
infi
Posts: 23989
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

This bit is interesting, however the equity markets have been really good the last 2 years.


the equity markets are not an indicator of economic health. equities is an emotional dating site for sellers of shares. one day it's up and another day it's down.

equities have been on a tear for the last two years (but far more than that really) because the Fed has been printing money and buying all sorts of s***ty investments (toxic assets) from banks. They are buying the s***ty assets with good money. The banks then use this good money to lend out another 10x that good money and then make a s*** ton of profits based from the money the Fed gave them. The European Central Bank has also been doing this. I think the amount on the Fed bought in toxic assets through QE1 2 and 3 is about $3tr. now times that by 10 and it gives you an idea how much money has gone directly into the equities market pumping up shares that are not actually worth anything more than before the QE began.

Stefan Molyneux explains it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUu3IH_tvt0

Now that the US Fed has stopped QE and has started an interest rate tightening cycle, expect assets to fall and volatility to rise. Combine this with tax breaks and increasing inflation and I expect market conditions in the US to be chaotic because the players do not know whether the economy should be slowing or speeding up..
Nmag
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

I'm not sure Nmag if you are retelling the same stories


Just an example of a nutter who justified passing on her (breach of policy) beliefs to primary school students, and got consequence for her behaviour. It's not justified even if she thinks/thought in her head that it is.

You can be aware of how bias and emotion is playing in behaviour and make effort to recognise and consider it in choices. You might not be able to turn it on and off, but you can make effort to check for it. Embracing the emotion and having it further cloud judgement is unlikely to be help with decision making.
taggs
Posts: 6538
Location:

The problem with the Steele dossier is not that he was unable to verify any of it, it was that the FBI didn't make this clear when using it as evidence to seek a FISA warrant.

The issue is that the Nunes memo makes clear that Steele is relaying information from other sources without verifying the veracity of that information. It makes no difference whether Steele himself is a trustworthy source of information or not (which by many accounts he isn't) because he isn't the source.

For the purposes of the warrant the sources of information are Steele's "informants" who are at times admittedly three or four times removed from the alledged incidents making them well and truly caught within the well understood hearsay rules of evidence. From a prosecutorial point of view It doesn't matter whether Steele himself is credible or not only whether his informants were or not (i.e. concept of vicarious credibility) - which the Nunes memo makes clear that the FBI made no effort whatsoever to corroborate or evidence in any way.

Easy to jump to conspiracy theories when bureaucratic incompetence is more likely but when you put fuel on the fire hard to complain when it burns.
PornoPete
Posts: 3039
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Easy to jump to conspiracy theories when bureaucratic incompetence is more likely but when you put fuel on the fire hard to complain when it burns.


It seems unlikely it was the case that Hillary was directing any of it (other than getting the document created). But I do think very senior people at the FBI expressed a preference for Hillary. And I get it, Trump seems to lurch from crisis to crisis.

The most likely explanation, is that firstly the people involved thought (like virtually everyone else) there was no way trump was getting elected and so thought less of bending the rules because it wouldn't come to light if Hillary had won (and lets not forget the FBI have bent FISC process before, secret courts in general are a bad idea), and secondly a general willingness to believe the very worst of trump (and this is in no short supply either) got the better of their judgment. The Steele Dossier is so obviously ridiculous I can't see how a person could believe it unless on some level they wanted it to be true.

In any event, spying on a presidential campaign should have been thrown out unless there was a mountain of hard evidence of *criminal* wrongdoing. IE the FBI needed to be basically checking boxes on what was otherwise a slam dunk prosecution.

A fishing expedition on a presidential campaign is inexcusable, and there should be high profile sackings as a result of this.
infi
Posts: 23992
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Which then begs the question why did Trump permit sessions to initiate the investigation....

Perhaps he is so far ahead of his adversaries he has already war-gamed his innocence out to be a major re-election benefit. Truly 4d chess.
fpot
Posts: 26246
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Perhaps he is so far ahead of his adversaries he has already war-gamed his innocence out to be a major re-election benefit. Truly 4d chess.
heh
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7813
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Pack 'em into NSW and VIC. To hell with planning, lets f*ck Australia for the Oligarchs.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/02/leith-van-onselen-tackles-growth-lobby-monster/#comment-3051840




Raven
Posts: 9570
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
The problem I have with our immigration policies is that they're pretty unrestricted and open.

Why can't we have policies that say "sure, you can come here - but you can't live here, here or here". To have rules that say if people want to move to Australia, they can't live in certain cities (eg, capital cities), helping growth of regional towns? Couldn't a growing Albury or Pemberton or Horsham be good for the country?
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39474
Location: Other International

The problem I have with our immigration policies is that they're pretty unrestricted and open.
Wat? Do you know many people that have immigrated here? it's hard work to get into this country as an immigrant.
Why can't we have policies that say "sure, you can come here - but you can't live here, here or here". To have rules that say if people want to move to Australia, they can't live in certain cities (eg, capital cities), helping growth of regional towns? Couldn't a growing Albury or Pemberton or Horsham be good for the country?
We have these exact policies. Check out the "Skilled Regional (Provisional) visa" programme. I can't remember the breakdown but my recollection is these account for a decent chunk of the "intake".
Raven
Posts: 9571
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
And yet we seem to have a f***ton of non-citizens living in metropolitan areas and capital cities. And given the standards of the employees I see coming in, the standard is pretty bloody low for IT work.
fpot
Posts: 26248
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

And yet we seem to have a f***ton of non-citizens living in metropolitan areas and capital cities. And given the standards of the employees I see coming in, the standard is pretty bloody low for IT work.
So your belief from the 'employees you see coming in' is that the work ethic/quality of migrants is poor, and that these people with poor work ethic/quality should be forced to live in regional towns where a strong economy doesn't exist to support them. Instead of moving into a capital city or major metropolitan area where greater options exist for employment and a strong(er) economy exists so these, as you put it, low standard migrants, won't have such a negative impact?
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39475
Location: Other International

And given the standards of the employees I see coming in, the standard is pretty bloody low for IT work.
dunno if that has anything to do with Australia's visa system, sounds like it's much more of a problem with the hiring practices in the companies where you're seeing these people!
fpot
Posts: 26252
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

s*** if I was dead against political violence to the point I'd get angry and develop personal vendettas against those who are perhaps nonchalant about intimidation and violence being used against nazis (which must be a really hard thing to do and be testing my noble resolve to its absolute limits) I'd be pretty f***ing angry right now about George Christensen's incitement of violence and implied death threat towards members of the Greens party. That is of course unless the burning passion that flares so brightly I can't help but fall head over heels to defend the absolute worst society has to offer is in fact a steaming pile of bulls*** providing a smoke screen for my own personal views. Then there'd be dead silence.
PornoPete
Posts: 3044
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I was really super into human rights, to the point that I'd call people racist for suggesting not all immigrants are as skilled as they might be, I'd be pretty upset at the media fawning over a woman who is wanted for crimes against humanity.

If it was just a bulls*** smokescreen for me to feel morally superior because I'm a failure in life, well then there'd be dead silence.

would probably also explain why I can't tell the difference between a photo and physically attacking people.
infi
Posts: 23993
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

I thought it was lulzy. The fun police are in full effect these days in Australia.
trog
AGN Admin
Posts: 39478
Location: Other International

indeed, if you don't like our politicians posting pictures of themselves with guns making thinly veiled threats against other politicians whose views they disagree with you are the "fun police"
PornoPete
Posts: 3046
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

if you don't like our politicians posting pictures of themselves with guns making thinly veiled threats against other politicians whose views they disagree with you are the "fun police"


Just for the class troggles. Step through the "thinly veiled threat" as opposed to the inappropriate joke an MP shouldn't be making.
infi
Posts: 23994
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

yeah George was gonna go postal! Watch out!
PornoPete
Posts: 3047
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

study finds left wing authoritarians and decades of bias in 'right wing authoritarian' literature

Imagine my shock.

Gee phooks, it'd be embarrassing if someone with no formal training in your field correctly identified the bleeding obvious instantly but you couldn't. Make you wonder if you really got value for money with your degree wouldn't it?
sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7814
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Shush don't mention the crush loading mass immigration

Sir Redhat
Posts: 2186
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

sLaps_Forehead
Posts: 7816
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
PornoPete
Posts: 3049
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

I get it redhat. It's genuine satire because it suggests you'd join getup! because you're angry with labor.

THAT

IS

HYSTERICAL.


Sorry, I'm just remembering. I hate labor so I joined getup!. Jon Stewart could learn a thing or two.
Vash
Posts: 5728
Location:

GetUp is a group that attacks both LNP & Labor. It just happens to attack the LNP more so because they're known for making decisions that are not in the interests of most voters.
PornoPete
Posts: 3051
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Which is why they were a political glory hole for Rudd. You are the dumbest person on this forum by a significant margin vash.

Vash
Posts: 5729
Location:

You are the dumbest person on this forum


Coming from a Trump apologist that is remarkable, PP. Please tell us more so we can laugh some more.
PornoPete
Posts: 3052
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Hey here is something you can laugh at.

Rick gates is the most recent person to be charged by Mueller in the 'russia stole the election' investigation.

His charges all relate to his work with paul manfort while they were working for tony podesta, all of them, every single one.

If that name rings a bell (it doesn't because you're dumb) its because tony podesta is john podesta's brother. John podesta of hacked DNC email fame. You know where they were feeding Hillary's questions to the press ahead of time, and no one has denied it. That john podesta.

So of the Americans actually charged with actual crimes and not process crimes, the criminal activity happened while they were working for Democrats.
Nmag
Posts: 912
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Trump apologist
https://i.imgur.com/an1CWdk.gif
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2187
Location: Sydney, New South Wales


This has aged like a fine wine.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/734231223002894337

So much 4D chess.

Getup aren't an arm of labor.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/feb/20/getup-targets-labor-in-biggest-ever-week-long-blitz-over-foreign-donations-law

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/feb/08/getup-waits-for-labor-move-on-adani-before-deciding-its-action-in-batman-byelection

https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/refugees/do-the-right-thing-labor/


PornoPete
Posts: 3053
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Right so three that all happened this year.

Gee I wonder the sleeplees nights they've caused shorten with this ceaseless barage criticism.

I think I'd be able to find more stories of Albo being critical of Labor.
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2188
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Not sure what your point is, this year is 2 months in, obviously they've been critical of labors stance on refugees since the Gillard gov.

They're not supposed to be a fair and balanced media, they're a progressive movement which obviously is going to always be critical of the LNP and will be critical of labor's right wing policies.
PornoPete
Posts: 3054
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Just enough criticism to make it plausible they aren't stooges.

Though then there is $1.12M they accepted from the CMFEU to run anti-Abbott ads. And the AWU donated at least $100,000 while Shorten was at the helm. But yeah they independently arrive at their policy positions.
Sir Redhat
Posts: 2189
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

lol yeah dude unions don't have a left wing stance.

More news at 10, the IPA has never supported the labor movement.

Looking forward to PP calling out the IPA being the rabid centerist that he is.
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