A few quick thoughts about BitTorrent based on using it for the last few months to:

a) download files for conventional (http/ftp) mirroring
b) creating torrents to make files available
c) seeding other torrents to help new releases be made available to users

I'll begin by saying I was always a bit skeptical about using p2p applications for serious content delivery, I guess largely because I just don't really trust people to voluntarily keep uploading if they don't have to. However, I started using BitTorrent to download stuff recently - basically things like Linux ISOs, game demos (courtesy of 3dgamers.com and filerush.com, both sites having nice systems set up) and was pleasantly surprised at the rate at which I was able to download most things. I noticed however that most of the things I downloaded, I generally was uploading back faster than I was downloading them (presumably because the phat bandwidth we have at Comindico beats most end user connections by quite a bit).

So, I've been using BitTorrent to get more stuff lately and then mirror it again here. I've done a few posts about certain files which I've made available by creating a tracker here on AusGamers, but these experiments haven't been too sucessful - I guess largely because people that are downloading from us know (or find out quickly) that downloading from our servers directly via HTTP is just as fast as using BitTorrent from our servers.

I've noticed a few things though, most recently with the new Slackware ISOs - when trying to obtain these via BitTorrent, despite them having a central tracker, a well-publisher torrent link and (presumably) zillions of seeds, it was actually surprisingly slow to download these ISOs. One of the possible hypotheses that I came up with was that there were just too many seeds for it to handle elegantly, although surely that has been catered for in the BT client (?).

Further, the recent Mandrake 9.2 release got a lot of negative comments from subscribers to the Mandrake Club who were quite disappointed about the speeds they were getting via BitTorrent (with the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth and demanding of FTP/HTTP links). There was some speculation from other users that maybe these people having problems were just newbs, and didn't have their network/computer set up in such a way to allow nominal BT performance. Incidentally, here's an interesting URL that was linked from somewhere explaining why this might have been the case.

Anyway, after having some initial success with it and then having a few problems with some things (and observing other people having similar problems) I've been wondering if BT is all its cracked up to be. Its exceptionally frustrating that the few times I've tried to use it to get something massive and massively popular (ie, just-released Slackware/Linux ISOs that are usually 3 to 5 ISOs) it has been quite disappointing in terms of performance.

Another thing that I've noticed is that with some releases, everyone runs around and sets up their own trackers, which means you have a jillion people all downloading the file, each from a different tracker. So, instead of everyone downloading the one file and all sharing the downloads between themselves, you have small groups of users doing it with the bandwidth segregated off into each tracker (this is basically why I stopped creating trackers on AusGamers).

One thing I think that these content creators (eg, Linux distro developers, mod developers, etc) need to do is create their own 'official' tracker to try and encourage more users to just use this one tracker, and thus share the bandwidth more effectively. Nominally, I'd like to see the official BitTorrent site hosting links to all these trackers (maybe even hosting the trackers themselves!), so there was a single, central repository that users could go to in order to find content to download.

Another thing that would be neat would be to do what I'm always hoping these characters are going to do, and actually have an organised release of their files. Unfortunately (and completely mind-bogglingly, at least to me), content creators are STILL putting up downloads of popular things on just one site, and then scratching their heads when the site gets swamped by zillions of people downloading it. There are hundreds of sites around the world that are happy to help distribute big files (AusGamers of course being one of them), and with BitTorrent making it ever-so-easy for people to help push content out, you could have several thousand seeds up with almost no problems at all.

All that it would take is for a vaguely coordinated release - ask for volunteers to help provide seeds (just like providing mirrors for a normal, traditional server-based release) and then send them the Torrent information ahead of schedule. Let them quickly suck down the file and become seeds before releasing it publicly. If you get a few sites that have a lot of bandwidth to burn (for example, AusGamers) then you've got a great setup to help distribute your content quickly and easily.

In addition to the above problems, I've also been having some minor technical problems that have seemed to have kicked in with the last release - I'll be merrilly downloading something, and then the connection will die, and I'll get spammed with "Problem connecting to tracker - timeout exceeded" error messages (in Linux) until I notice and hit CTRL-C (these error messages caused ~400mb of usage to my monthly download limit before I noticed them - woops!). It doesn't seem to ever re-establish the connection after it dies either - I have to kill it and then re-run it manually for it to start downloading/uploading again.

Overall, BitTorrent seems to be quite a neat method of distributing content - I think with consideration of the above points, a lot of content creators could really use it to efficiently distribute their software/media.

Yeah, I really dunno about BT. I've mostly found that unless you start downloading not long after the tracker has been started, you're screwed as not many people leave the BT window open that long.

Also there are BT clients available which limit the upload rate, which sorta defeats the purpose of BT.

I've been using Bit Torrent for around 2 Years now to download the latest Un-Licensed anime and have never really had any complaints about it.

Trog have you tried any other BT clients, I recomend you check out Shadows Version of the BT Experimental S-5.7.6, A very nice client indeed.

Only one problem with Bit Torrent for ADSL users though, the upload saturates the download speed on ADSL and I often find that I will be uploading at 22 K/Sec and downloading at 8 K/Sec. But I found a great app called Netlimiter and limited my upload to 6 K a sec and find my download will go at 50 K/Sec + on decent seeds.

Shadows client can limit the upload speed so you don't choke your DL.

The connecting to tracker problems have always recovered fine with Win clients I've tried. Also, the port forwarding thing in Trog's link is real important for decent DL speeds. If you're behind a router/firewall etc, forwarding the right ports will make a huge difference.

Main problem I see locally is for people who don't get free uploads.

Dont mention that site, its naughty.

sorry khel i didnt mean it like that. it has linux iso's under the linux section in applications so i thought he mite have got it from there

I think once you move away from the standard clients your BT experience increases. Im using Azureus atm its built on Java and you can limit your Upload aswell as set when it should seed etc. Its rather good. and has greate features including selecting which files to download from within the torrent, Very handy if you missed only 1 part of your linux ISO.

About the Connect timeout/refuse message, usualy means the tracker is down or has reached its max conections. Usualy if you still have a few seeds and peers you can get through a downtime without any loss of download speed as any client that you still see you can download off and vice versa.

Overall I think BT is great but if a HTTP/FTP download is available i will use that first.

Bittorrent is one of the best things to come around in ages. Thoroughly recommend it and if you're with an ISP that doesn't count uploads you can leave the tracker going all day. Really impressed with it.

The official bittorrent client is a load of balls really.

Configuring can only be done at the command line (it seems), so doing something extremely important, like limiting uploads, is quite hard.

A few of the non-official clients do it better though. If its the fact that its written in python that is the issue, perhaps the author should switch to something better.

Azureus and BitSpirit are the shiznit.

Ive been on trackers that have gone offline in the middle of downloads and Ive still stayed connected to my peers, happily downloading/uploading between ourselves until the tracker has come back up again (where it automatically reconnected).
So if yours isnt doing this trog, I suggest trying an app that doesnt suck. As neff said, the official client is balls.

Allthough, I think the client software needs to mature a bit and become more noob friendly before the legitimate uses of it really start taking off.

I suggest trying an app that doesnt suck

i'm sorry that just made me laugh.

As for my experiences with BT, i have mixed views but i do believe that has alot to do with my current isp (ozforces > comindico)

I think clients are actualy pretty mature, Its now the server that needs tweaking, I have heard the maker of the program has figured out how to reduce the Tracker Bandwith by about 80% be good if it was true, because those high load trackers do something like 50gb a month and mind you this is just a tracker that has tells you who has it and not the files itself. Pretty crazy

I like bit torrent when it works. Some things people have to remember. If your behind a firewall, YOU HAVE TO OPEN THE PORTS FOR BIT TORRENT. I dont know how you expect to get good speeds otherwise :P Many dont seem to know about this and it is so easily fixed. Port range for the latest version of bit torrent is: 6881-6999

Bit torrent is really only good for files that generally a site dedicated to their download would be a bit dubious in the laws eye. It sort of creates a loop hole.

It is, however, a good way to deliver legal content but it seems to work best in smaller close nit communities where users are more likely to stay uploading for long periods of time to 'help a brother out'. Places like something awful forums use bit torrent for user created content that is generally too large for themselves to host and it works great. Even here in aus I always max out my cap (52kb/s with DSL)

yeah, when i first started out i was a bit befuzzled over the slow speeds - only got up to around 8k/s after uploading over a gig...:S but after opening the ports 6881-6889 (i think thats it, and yes, the newer versions allow for up to 6999 but u only really need up to 6889 ive been told, which is good cause my router only lets 12 ports be forwarded...) its all good now, get great speeds, of 40k/s plus (max of 52) but yeah, i think that as more ppl start to use it for legit purposes it will really hit its prime

hopefully riaa doesnt find it :S...

i've come to like it alot. its the fastest non-http way for me to download on this shoddy ozforces connection. a reseller of non other than your amazing fat pipe supplier comindico!

its also dam easy and i like to download anime fan-subs (perfectly legal i might add so dont even bother), something that BT excels at.

perfectly legal i might add so dont even bother

As much as I would love to agree with you I think its still a bit grey and not quite as simple as you would like it to be :P

another thing you should look into trog is something called "super seeding"..

http://home.elp.rr.com/tur/superseed.txt

basic gist of it is that it allows low/limited bandwidth seeds. This is a temporary solution as far as i can see to the problem of innumerate trackers

grey is good enough for me.

yes, because grey still isn't black :)

So if yours isnt doing this trog, I suggest trying an app that doesnt suck. As neff said, the official client is balls.

Are there other clients for Lunix? I've only been able to find Windows ones

check out the java client: http://azureus.sourceforge.net/

Haven't tried it myself, but reports are good.

heh, java - that's just going from bad, to worse

trog loves his java ... particularly JSP ... I hear that gives him wood!

heh, java - that's just going from bad, to worse

Yeah, laugh it up, but still it's a really decent client with all the right features.

Ive had a few random issues with it using heaps of cpu time, but that aside it's everything i want out of a bt client.

Yeah, laugh it up

Dont worry, we will.

you cant imagine how much i hate java, but this realy is one of the very few DECENT bit torrent clients that are out there. Shame it uses around 30mb of ram to do it in. But still it has everything in there and is set out alot better then other clients, BitSpirit or whatever the F$@# it is, which is similiar to Azureus just makes me want to rip my eyes out.