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Topic: Adult rating for Australia
natslovR
Posts: 2259
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

An online petition has been created requesting the OFLC establish a Restricted category for games. This is following on from recent developments in which BMXXX was Refused Classification (banned), GTA3: VC is still awaiting classification and it is becoming more apparent that other titles may go the same way.

While I'm usually one to scoff at petitions, particularly online ones, the Assessment of Public Submissions on the Discussion Paper and Draft Revised Guidelines that was released earlier in the year made pariticular mention of a petition that was submitted during last year's Classification Review, taking note of the comments submitted with the petition.

So, if you feel you agree with the petition go sign it but remember to keep your comments sensible.
system
--
[Q]
Posts: 3984
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I hope that they introduce an R rating...
Loki
Posts: 1965
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
They will turn around and say all these names are fake, f*** off and give us something more solid...
Or they'll simply just say "f*** off".

Either way, I dont play enough games to bother signing this :)
Though I most certainly agree - and quite pissed off that someone else chooses what I can and can't participate in playing, yet I can be thrown in jail, go to R rated movies, go to pubs, clubs, purchase alcohol, cigarettes, and uhmm.. I cant think of much more at the moment...

Yet, I cannot play a game THEY think is too violent/sexually orientated cause some tosser says so? I think I should be the sole judge of what I deem acceptable/unacceptable... and if I dont like it, I wont play it/watch it!

They should just have retailers ASK people who look under-18 buying R rated games for identification, just like any bottle-shop, club or pub.
If those places are required to do it, I do not see why it would be imfeasible for a retailer to do it.
c0rr
Posts: 1411
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I recently has a rather in depth discussion with the manager at my local EB regarding this topic.

Although it has been proven that games are played by adults (and them not being just a minority of the gaming population, but probably the majority) kids still play these games as well. Would you like your kids walking into a games store being able to look at game boxes sporting nudity and high levels of gore and violence.

If the R rating is imposed, that means there is nothing to stop f***ed up japanese hentai/porn games from being advertised and sold in australia, is that really something that we want?

After the conversation, I realised that it is indeed a double edged blade. While many argue that we arent seeing the games the way the creators originally intented, the vast majority only care about things like screwing hookers or going into strip clubs for the "wow" factor, which gets old very quick for most. If you want to see a strip club in the game, it will be rated r18+ which in any case means you will have to be 18+ to play it so why not just got to a strip club. same thing goes for the hooker thing (if you are that way inclined).

I dunno, some1 really should think of the children.
ggb
Posts: 50
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
hihi
It easier for a child to access Adult-orientated material via a computer than it is for the same child to access Liquor.
Sadly, it is that point that defeats the reason for censorship.
But there has to be guidelines for parents to follow. Just like there are ratings for other means of entertainment, like movies.
peacekeeper
Posts: 2069
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Has a single one of these worked yet
icewyrm
Posts: 776
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
no
teen
Posts: 7488
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Would you like your kids walking into a games store being able to look at game boxes sporting nudity and high levels of gore and violence.


Yes. This can't hurt them. Kids aren't even interested in that sort of thing. Didn't you ever go to a video shop when you were a kid, or into granny mays, or anywhere that had a bit of an 'adult section' and you either
a) didn't give a f*** about it
b) it was too high up on the shelf
c) when you found out what it was you knew you shouldn't be looking at that - so you didn't!
Morgan
Posts: 2770
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Please to not sign this if you are under the age of 18. this is somthing that us "adults" would like to do on our own :)


one day us people under the age of 18,.. will be 18+ too! therefore we are allowed to sign
Sugoi??
Posts: 3584
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
(Edit: Hmmmm...names all look the same at 8:30am)

And if kids under the age of 18 can look at the boxes, then so what?
Isn't it the interactive nature of violent games that the OFLC are worried about? Sure, look at the box all you want, but you can't buy the thing.
Hemerage
Posts: 3942
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Wow, Morgish actually has a point for a change.
...well NO

that was Morgan posting not morgish

morgish will never make a good point
Hemerage
Posts: 3943
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
fkn chillout!

he misread your name :|
Sugoi??
Posts: 3585
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Yeah, realised the error. See the edit.
Morgan
Posts: 2773
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I know hemerage,.. i wasn't getting fired up, it was an honest mistae,.. i deleted my post, i was just claiming that morgish half stole my name
GumbyNoTalent
Posts: 513
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Banning BMX xxx for a nude character is ridiculous, watch TV and you will see nudity, SBS foreign, oops I mean titty movies are a classic example. Censoring society for the evils of the world is a noble thing; the only problem is who makes these discissions! There was a time when the word ďf***Ē wasnít allowed on TV, and if it was used in a film (Saturday Night Fever) it was given an R rating, by pushing the boundaries we now have ďf***Ē on TV, is this a good thing?

I have mixed emotions on the subject, but I truly believe that BMX xxx with itís nudey girls, is not going to corrupt the under 18ís that I know, especially those little deviants that post in this forum.
Shotty
Posts: 2763
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
If the R rating is imposed, that means there is nothing to stop f***ed up japanese hentai/porn games from being advertised and sold in australia, is that really something that we want?
Actually no. Most of the "harcore" pornography falls under the 'X' rated category, which is illegal in australia anyway, and will probably continue to be. 'R' Rating (though not sure bout games) would probably just fall under excessive violence and maybe a few sex scenes. I'm not sure exactly how they would apply it though, because games are indeed "interactive". But I dare say it would work out fine.
koopz
Posts: 3586
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Would you like your kids walking into a games store being able to look at game boxes sporting nudity and high levels of gore and violence


we had the same situation with pron mags @ newstands and newsagents. the problem was dealt to a satisfactory end imo.


If the R rating is imposed, that means there is nothing to stop f***ed up japanese hentai/porn games from being advertised and sold in australia, is that really something that we want?


what Shotty said :)



I feel the issue need be taken one step further. I'd like to see MS Windows introduce a rating system that ties in with the same rating system apropriate with DVD's (just as a background here, you can set your DVD software to only play DVD's that are G, PG, etc) Having this option made available when setting up yer kiddies profile would sure come in handy, as it would tie in nicely with ensuring that 'Jr' isn't able to load anything he's too young to watch.

yer sure - you can warez your way around this, but I don't think the Govt is really aware of that yet.

Introducing an R rating is a great idea. Having a function built into Windows that enforces it is an even better one.

I'm kinda thinking someone's prolly onto it already, but it's still worth the mention.


:)
WarT
Posts: 9198
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
GTA3: VC
GTA: VC
Cailean
Posts: 2206
Location: New South Wales
I think the problem is, that most people still look on video games as a 'kiddy' thing. If they looked a little harder they would see it is clearly not.

Sure if they introduced an R rating, at first it would be a big deal, then after a while it would just be like movies and such.

I don't think the matter of the R rated games being on the shelf is a big deal. Most 'family' places like EB etc jsut probably wouldn't stock the porn ones maybe. Video stores have R rated material all over the place, so people should just learn to deal with video game stores having R rated material.
thrax
Posts: 1038
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
it won't happen, the R18+ that is.

If they ban GTA: VC, I'll just get it imported, I hate to say this but I think VC will be on very person x-mas list that has a ps2, so yeah Rockstar Inc will be possible very pissed off if they ban the game here.
Hemerage
Posts: 3954
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
my mum still thinks "The Simpsons" is a kids show :P
Cailean
Posts: 2210
Location: New South Wales
They won't get RC with VC here in Australia, because it will be censored from the start.
Dan
Posts: 4678
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
If the R rating is imposed, that means there is nothing to stop f***ed up japanese hentai/porn games from being advertised and sold in australia, is that really something that we want?

After the conversation, I realised that it is indeed a double edged blade. While many argue that we arent seeing the games the way the creators originally intented, the vast majority only care about things like screwing hookers or going into strip clubs for the "wow" factor, which gets old very quick for most. If you want to see a strip club in the game, it will be rated r18+ which in any case means you will have to be 18+ to play it so why not just got to a strip club. same thing goes for the hooker thing (if you are that way inclined).


Who cares if hentai porn is sold to f***ups over here, as long as its not being to kids. Its not like they're forcing you to buy it.

No idea why this guy at eb would be arguing that angle.
Maybe they just dont want r18+ cause it means they would have to change the way the stores are run and adding the hassles of asking kids for ID.
Whereas atm they can legally sell any game in the store to anyone, regardless of age.

I usually give a big roffel to online petitions, but i thought this one was well written and for a good cause.

Video games arent just kids toys anymore and I think its time the faschist bully boys recognised this :P
Erik-the-Red
Posts: 513
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
yeah, i agree, i'm a mature adult, and i beleive that i should be able to determine what i see and watch. the entire rating/age system is screwed. 18+ can watch sex tapes, yet at 16+ you're allowed to perform the act of sex. i think that actually having sex is a little more interactive than a video game, so if they're saying that sex in games is wrong in games, yet ok in movies, because games are interactive, that's a crock of s***.
DeePer
Posts: 2634
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
If the R rating is imposed, that means there is nothing to stop f***ed up japanese hentai/porn games from being advertised and sold in australia, is that really something that we want?


Aren't these games all modified anyway? I thought it was part of Japanese law that they couldn't show any really "rudey" bits so to speak?
MtX
Posts: 259
Location: Wollongong, New South Wales
so maybe they should have an rating games section at your local video store, so you gotta walk behind a curtin..

kinda cool unless ur some hentai freak!

I understand the downsides, but I dont like paying retail for a game thats butchered , where for eg in NZ, its untouched from the original uncut version.
sKryBe
Posts: 1569
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hentai USED to be censored but I believe the Japanese Govt lifted a lot of the restrictions recently. Although the artists are to some degree self policing anyway...

I agree with Dan's statements. So what if Hentai Pr0n games are avalailable here? If they're rating 18+ only adults will buy them and if they don't sell well the companies will soon wise up and say "No market, don't sell em".

And there are definitely worse things on view in the typical video store than in the typical EB. It's not that hard for the most gruesome and hardcore game to simply have a black cover with just a little text. Or if worse came to worst it could be placed on the top shelf or "behind the counter". Another thing that's likely to reduce sales and serve as an indicator to the producers whether or not there is demand for the games.

I really think that in all forms of media it is the parents responsibility to decide when their child is sufficiently mature to see different rating movies. Relying on the Govt to do it is farcical - they have no idea what EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUALS mental and emotional development level is. Heck I know a few 20 year olds who are so immature they should be watching anything past MA15.
Sugoi??
Posts: 3587
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Aren't these games all modified anyway? I thought it was part of Japanese law that they couldn't show any really "rudey" bits so to speak?


Ah yes, the INVISI-COCK!##!@!@$#%

If you can't see it, it ain't happening!
More than just a little stupid.
Slabz
Posts: 109
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
i think that the R rating should be introduced so the retard reporters don't bitch on about awesome games like GTA3 and GTA: Vice City.

And about this crap with the covers being influencial then just make sure the covers are suitable for general display and if they aren't then do what pr0n mags do and put the black/opaque plastic cover over everything except the cover....hey presto, problem solved.
Balthazar
Posts: 16
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

Giving programs ratings or censoring information will only make gamerz more desparate to play the games.

ID to play a game? puleeeez...
Dan
Posts: 4680
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Giving programs ratings or censoring information will only make gamerz more desparate to play the games.

ID to play a game? puleeeez...


Disagreeing that with be to me not liking say you what.
Erik-the-Red
Posts: 515
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
dan, what the f*** did you just say in that sentence?
WhoopAss
Posts: 1677
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Would you like your kids walking into a games store being able to look at game boxes sporting nudity and high levels of gore and violence.


then put them in a separate room/area that kids aren't allowed to get at?
HERMITech
Posts: 176
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

dan, what the f*** did you just say in that sentence?


lol, I was working hard to translate that on as well heheh...

Maybe babelfish has the answer !
chenko
Posts: 1
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Parents should protect kids from unsuitable games, not the OFLC.
Wiggett
Posts: 11
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
i think dan said he disagreed with what had been said about high ratings make people want it more. anyway i am real pissed that they are banning games like bmx xxx. I mean if they really dont want kids buying it then ask for id or whatever, it really is just like movies at a video store. Have the games in a separate section or have them with black plastic covers like some of the porno mags in newsagents. but dont ban them and deprive those adults who are in charge of what they want to see from playing these games, and damnit i want bmx xxx, it slike tony hawk but with strippers, where can u go wrong :D
Daddy Walrus
Posts: 31
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
That petition would have a much higher chance of working if more than 20% of the people signing it could spell or at least form a coherent sentence.
Draffa
Posts: 1574
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland
And didn't swear, curse and generally act like a bunch of degenerate reprobates in the Mall at 10PM...
HerbalLizard
Posts: 1311
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Personally, I believe it is the reasonability of parents to limit what their kids are exposed to. Rather than the Ďleave it up to someone else to do policyí that has become the norm, hell that is a great example by its self. Where is the responsibility in that? We seem to be creating a society of people that will not take responsibility for their actions. If you donít like what you see/hear/read what ever then donít look/listen/or read it, its that simple. And the f*****s that say what about their rights, well they didnít even think about others rights that may in fact want to see/hear/read it now did they. Lovely example that comes to mind is the f***ing butching of pulp fiction a couple of weeks back on TV.

R rated anything has always been tucked away from those that canít see it and should know better anyway and as teen said

when you found out what it was you knew you shouldn't be looking at that - so you didn't


If censorship should be imposed, it should be done by the parents. Honesty the OFLC is playing the role of the responsible parent that nobody wanted.

As for my feelings about censorship I would love to f***ing shoot the do-gooders that whinge about this stuff. I hope that whatever game the qgl development team makes is the most violent / politically incorrect / x-rated thing imaginable. Better yet make a bonus round for killing OFLC advocates.

The OFLC really should take a really good look at their statistics because I think that they are only seeing what they want to see. Yes maybe they are thinking of the greater good. But everyone here is a portion of the greater good, f*** it, people want it and the market calls for it. Then they will simply keep rolling em out.

Personally, I think that all this censorship crap extends from bad media coverage, with the games are making our children violent line being done to death. Truth be told parents need to teach their kids better anger management. The only thing I can see kids getting from violent games is that they may become desensitised to violence in general. Underlining point with that is children need to understand that itís a game and not real. Really handy when they grow up because there are far to many f***wits will grand delusions of inadequacy, living in some f***ed up fairy land. (Go the Nintendo style of gaming) yeah lovely teach your kids what a life on acid would be like. Does the OFLC think of that, f*** no!

And another thing I hate CS as much as the next person, however what shat me was the coverage games where getting over the Washington sniper. Oh, low and behold he was ex-military (or so I heard on a newscast) big f***ing surprise there. I canít get over the perception of how shooting someone in a game translates to real life. Completely f***ing different! Yeh right games are teaching kids to kill people. f*** off they are, if parent canít see that their kids are going through some sort of teenage crisis then they should be the ones to do something about it. (Comlbine shootings and the doom bulls***) Gee, I would how many humans have successfully tried to rocket jump and lived to tell the taleÖ..big fat sweet f*** all! Oh yeah and you can just happen to get rocket launcher at the corner store, yes I would like a bottle of coke, some bread and what have you got in the way of surface to air missiles.

No parents are not doing their job. Yes, some are too busy and that is acceptable. What is not, is how they expect everyone else to do their job for them. By saying f*** the rest of you my kids may be exposed to violence. Well I hate to say it but, whip-dee f***ing do, they are going to be exposed by it anyway.Y eah lovely and we get exposed to these social f***ups in society who live in a sheltered existence.

On the subject of asking for ID its really not that f***ing hard. How many people work at bars or woolies etc etc that have to ask people for their ID? Hell if they wanted to impose purchasing restrictions make people buy it through credit card only sales on these games. Obviously not everyone has a credit card but debt cards are available and with most of us purchasing s*** off the net etc anyway, it is not that greater deal.

Plus, with kids being kids no matter what it is, they will always try it see it read etc etc, there is always be that mate whoís mum didnít give a s***, that store person that didnít check for ID, something on TV or something they see in real life. Everywhere around us there is some sort of violence, and its better if they learn to deal with it properly at a young age, to prepare them for the future what ever it may be.




scrub
Posts: 111
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Me gets up looks around and rubs ears. Haven't heard a lecture like that for a while herb. I thought I was back in school.

Good point and well said.
sKryBe
Posts: 1590
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I agree with your points Herbal but the way you've stated some of them gives fuel to the OFLC side. "I wish someone would kill them" or whatever you said. That sort of statement while not meaning you REALLY want to kill them will always be construed badly.

"I have a strong dislike for the manner the OFLC runs their operations" would be more acceptable ;) (Joke).

Also your closing paragraph actually argues for why they SHOULD ban R rated games. If someones lazy mum will let you watch/play them then the only way to protect little Johnny is to ban them entirely. At least that is the logic they would use :(

Personally I find censorship abhorent for everything bar child pr0n. If it's legal for someone to do something then it should be legal to view it on a movie/read about it in a book. Which is where GTA3 actually comes unstuck - it's advocating illegal, criminal activity. Hmm... maybe it should be banned?

*shrugs* Nah don't ban it - cos otherwise you need to ban movies like Thelma and Louise, Butch & Sundance, Bandits, etc. Just bring in that damned 18+ rating so people need to be a little more mature to play the thing.
HerbalLizard
Posts: 1319
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Also your closing paragraph actually argues for why they SHOULD ban R rated games. If someoneís lazy mum will let you watch/play them then the only way to protect little Johnny is to ban them entirely. At least that is the logic they would use :(
All in the name of child protection, which is completely blown out of proportion. I do not think that R rated games should be banned, because why should those of age become penalised all to make someone elseís kids safe from violence. If anything, one could argue that it is discrimination against the older segment of todayís gamers. Censorship should squarely sit on the parents, if the parents are excessively lazy to do something about it then it would be a breach of duty of care.

Really, they are just delaying the invertible, just look at how people are taking sex and religion these days compared to couple of hundred years ago. I think give it a couple of years and people will be totally desensitised to violence in general, therefore the classification system would need to be adjusted accordingly. Much in the way that it needs to be today to reflect todayís societyís morals and ethics.

Itís a rather difficult subject because of the extremes of both sides of the argument.

However, why should we be penalised because of censorship. Just look at all the sub 15 gamers out there that cannot attend qgl due to legal reasons. Of which it is probably a good thing because of their behaviour (generalised statement aimed at the CS kiddie crowd)

Same thing except it will happen to the 18+ portion of us out there, we are old enough to buy porn, alcohol, smokes, vote and get a credit card why the f*** should something as simple as a game, be treated so differently when there so much worse s*** out there.
Gobo
Posts: 955
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
Good points HerbalLizard, good points.

It should be noted however that the OFLC aren't the only ones at fault. On issues like censorship you can be absolutely sure that they get prompted by the government.

And the government gets prompted by
tabloid tv watching f***heads (not to generalise, but religious f***heads, more often than not) who pressure their local members via the paper and tv.

The OFLC are given strict guidelines to adhere to. Even if they sway towards letting an obviously harmless title like the original GTA3 in, you can be sure theres a bunch of polician and ACA type shows filling people's minds with stupid junk like "GET PAID TO HAVE SEX WITH PROSTITUTES AND KILL THEM".

In other words, the OFLC are just another bunch of public servants executing the desires of a bunch of ignorant talkback radio listeners and corrupt politicians.

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/08/20/jenkins_on_donahue/index.html?x
trog
Posts: 9458
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hey, we could write to our politicians and do the same thing!
Gobo
Posts: 956
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
The last time that happened I think it was a group of almost 100 of Australia's top intellectual talent based overseas. They were writing to the government to protest over the handling of the refugee situation.

Once the letter was published, all the lowest common denominator types utterly insecure with their intelligence shouted down the sentiments.

Democracy in action. If you choose to live in a country with a majority of ignorant hicks and rednecks, there are drawbacks.
scene
Posts: 163
Location: Queensland
What country doesn't have the majority as ignorant and misinformed? The problem lies in the fact that this issue hasn't been dealt with enough yet in Australia. Something interesting needs to happen to force the majority to discuss this issue. Something important enough so that those with more influence will take the whole issue into serious consideration, and then have their opinions scrutinised by the public and mass media. Public outcry forces action and whether that be good or bad, at least it's being discussed and brought to the fore to the majority of Australians.
Gobo
Posts: 957
Location: Sydney, New South Wales
The difference is that our country's leadership panders to the lowest common denominator, instead of educating them.

It's always easier to make the front page saying you'll avenge the victims of the bali bombing than it is to uphold Australia's once proud tradition as an international citizen.
scene
Posts: 164
Location: Queensland
That isn't always a leadership problem though. Part of the 'blame' has to be shifted to the mass media. If it's interesting enough then blah blah...

In my opinion the government has had to make some pretty tough choices lately. Most of them turned out right but I honestly believe, as people, they want to do what is morally right. It's just that it must be very difficult to balance this with politics and economics, very important facts/truths of life as leaders.
HerbalLizard
Posts: 1323
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
That isn't always a leadership problem though. Part of the 'blame' has to be shifted to the mass media


The problem therefore would be the mass media in a rat race to grab the highest rating, from the portion of f***wits that believe what the media tells them, and are totally devoid of making their own conscience decisions. These same individuals are the ones that love to play the part of the little Aussie battler, who is always the victim of something. Yet again these are people believe that they should not be held responsible for their actions.
sKryBe
Posts: 1600
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
The problem is not so much the "ignorant masses" as the "vocal minorities". Many political decisions are swayed by a few people (from memory about 5% of the population controls the balance of power) - eg: the balance of power held by Senator Harradine (sp?) who is in turn influenced by a small band of (essentially) religious fanatics. One man can then decide Govt policy because the main powers have to pander to him for support.

That is not democracy in action :( Unfortunately, for democracy to really work you'd need everyone who votes to be informed and reasonably intelligent. And for the politicians to TRULY listen to the voice of the majority.

So the only way we'll get action on a topic like adult rated games is to have a huge groundswell movement that is impossible to ignore and would risk throwing people out of their seats at the next election. And unfortunately gaming is not going to cause that :(
HerbalLizard
Posts: 1330
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Doesn't leave many options open for us then does it
sKryBe
Posts: 1603
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
No. Unfortunately that's the problem. We aren't a big enough or important enough group to have enough clout to influence govt decisions much :(
HerbalLizard
Posts: 1333
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
However, we as gamers have access to a bigger media and a larger audience through the internet. Really though I think that maybe common sense will prevail and the R classification may in fact go though.
sKryBe
Posts: 1606
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I'd bet money it won't - at least not now. Maybe in a few years time. Once the Howard Govt is gone. Once the "older" population is actually made up of people who grew up with PCs and have a better idea of just what they are. Instead of people who think of them as "those new-fangled addin' machines".
Draffa
Posts: 1580
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland
yes I would like a bottle of coke, some bread and what have you got in the way of surface to air missiles.
Bwahaha. Classic :)
system
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